I like 6on6. Fills a niche at that number of players and it's easier to put together a team.
It'll develop it's own shifting metagame. One weekend wasn't enough for people to fully explore the format.
Change to Heroes' Ascent
Zubey
TimTimTimma
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Originally Posted by McUH
6v6 HA is bad for several reasons.
1. game balance This is most important IMO. I feel skills in GW are balanced for 8v8 play (damage wise and heal-wise etc). Making in 6v6 will make HA unbalanced cookie-cutter build arena. Also imporatnt parts of metagame will be dropped out. Just to name few: - spike (it is still possible to do spike in 6 players, but you will completely lose backline). - balanced (anyone speaking about creativity ? balanced temas of many sorts are where creativity comes into play most I think, but they will become less viable now, because the main advantage of balanced - reduced effectivity at the cost of ability to face any situation, will be greatly reduced. There will be not enough place to take counters too all kind of situations in sufficient number) Gimmick builds will become much more powerful because of inability to pack anough versatility into balanced teams, who if played well, can usually face most if not all cookie-cutter builds out there right now. |
Spikes are still possible, just not the gay kind like blood spike
The lower number of skills in the build requires players to actually PLAY the game with skills, like movement, positioning, etc. THIS is where the true skill lies, anyone can time shock, anyone can countdown 3, 2, 1. Anyone can hit a res sig as soon as someone dies. But not everyone can have good battle field observation, good placement, or kiting. THIS is the skill anet is promoting here and I for one love it. Its where the REAL skill comes in, instead of just click execute this skill "ZOMG I INTERUPTED RoF WITH SHOCK I ROXORZ", NOT that hard.
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2. griefing possible and longer matches Yes. You see right. All you people who believe it will bring faster matches are probably wrong (except for timed maps where it depends on timer). Reason is offense will be reduced. And I can still take 3 monk backline, now I want to see you fight against it with your reduced offense, when it is good for keeping 8-man team alive for a good amout time. The match will take forever if both teams are skilled. And it will be possible to make griefing builds now. Right now it does not matter if you take some 8 monks or something designed to somehow get through Zaishen and then just our-bore opponent. Will not work because 8-man team has enough offense to crack weak point and land some minispike or soemthing, also spikes would make short work of such team in 8v8, in 6v6 they will lack power for it (unless they run without backline at all making them complete gimmick as well). |
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3. lack of high level PvP arenas There are only 2 high level PvP arenas atm. GvG and HA. For more casual players, there are lot of more possibilities: RA, TA, Alliance battles, those PvP arenas in Cantha (not sure how they are called, Jade Quary, Fort Aspenwood or something?). 6v6 HA will stop this arena from being good for high-level competetive players for reasons described earlier. That will leave us with only 1 really competetive PvP and that is GvG. Which is hard to organise without guild or when not enough guildies are online. For these times (being without guild or when not many people in guild are online) the HA was perfect opportunity to do with friends and even taking 1-2 players from PuG (this will prob. no longer happen, since I have no prob. at all to make 6-friends team, that is if I bother to play that kind of HA anymore). IMO, if they wanted some mid-step 6v6 arena, they should have made TA as 6v6. We would have then more diverse options: 4v4 random - RA 4 player team - AB (even though there is 3v3 such teams) 6 player team - TA 8 player team - HA 8 player guild team - GvG That would be much better I think than 6v6 HA. Still I dont think it is good to change TA into 6v6, I only say it would be lesser evil than change HA to 6v6 if they can't make new 6v6 arena but have to change old one. |
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4. Fame and Ranks Yes old debate. I know how alomost everyone deems them worthless. For myself it does not mean that much either (mind you I am not unranked). Though very high ranks (R11+ maybe ?) still mean something and the lower ranks at least mean you have been there and won some. But with changing HA to 6v6 the whole concepts changes drasticaly, Fame would no longer represent experience from winning this type of matches (though can still mean to some degree you know maps). If HA is changing to 6v6, either Fame should be reset to 0, or locked where it is and new ranking system being put into place. |
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For myself, I planned to buy Nightfal right from the start just for the new PvP skills (did not even finish Cantha yet, that PvE is simply to boring for me, I have it for PvP skills alone as well), and I was already preparing 8v8 builds based on Nightfall skills to try out in HA (and already did some during preview). Now I will prob. wait to see if they make HA really 6v6. If they do I don't know, either I find some good GvG guild (the one I am in atm we are just getting used together but they are HA-ers mostly, I did some GvG in previous guilds but they were disbanded for different reasons). Or if I find none, I will prob. let GW go. It was great game, but PvP is only thing I am really interested in GW now and from only 2 real PvP arenas they would destroy 1 of them, the easier accesible one to say. Mc |
Blackhawk
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Originally Posted by SLuiP
I've read some post and I agree with Xiedon. This is a load of bullcrap. It's like anet is bowing under to pressure from PvE people. Like the thing with "PvE titles/ranks"
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And if you think this is going to get PvE people into PvP I think they've got it wrong as the only reason people found 6v6 popular before was so they could get into a team, farm fame and get an emote during the double fame weekend.
Priest Of Sin
Maybe i'll go run Dual Smite and get that rank 3 now that HA= 6v6. Personally, I think that if you just ran a 6 monk out-last team, you'd dominate HoH.
Alleji
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Originally Posted by Trixz
Quite possibly the worst suggestion ever?
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Marz08
Ok So They are changing HA.Explain This Then.On the Factions Booklet it shows a Gladiators Isle East Of Team Arenas.I dont know one person too have actually been there!.
Btw 6v6 is a good idea.Less hassle and new builds will come.
Btw 6v6 is a good idea.Less hassle and new builds will come.
sindex
I just hope when they mean “changes to the maps”, they don’t cut back on the size and lower the detail on the maps.
Cassandra
Of course the "PvP pro l33t players" angrily complaining about 6vs6 HA are mainly IWAYers and BloodSpikers, who had their toy broken.
I do a lot of PvP, 600.000+ balth from Gvg and HA, and I warmly welcome this change.
I do a lot of PvP, 600.000+ balth from Gvg and HA, and I warmly welcome this change.
xulidan
This is great.
Now our 8-man HA team is gonna play rock-paper-scissors for the first couple of minutes at Guild Hall before venturing into 6 vs 6 "arena" or used-to-called-HA in order to decide which 6 gets to play!!!!!!
...This is the part where people leave....
Now our 8-man HA team is gonna play rock-paper-scissors for the first couple of minutes at Guild Hall before venturing into 6 vs 6 "arena" or used-to-called-HA in order to decide which 6 gets to play!!!!!!
...This is the part where people leave....
Shanaeri Rynale
It would have been far better to revamp the existing maps and keep HA at 8v8, and then introduce a 6V6 area where fame is earned at 1/2 the rate.
Add to the gameplay options, don't take them away.
so then you'd have
Random 4v4
TA 4v4
HA lite 6v6
HA 8v8
GvG 8V8
AB 12v12
in NF hero's vs Hero's 4v4
That looks a nicely rounded set of options for people to play.
Add to the gameplay options, don't take them away.
so then you'd have
Random 4v4
TA 4v4
HA lite 6v6
HA 8v8
GvG 8V8
AB 12v12
in NF hero's vs Hero's 4v4
That looks a nicely rounded set of options for people to play.
Yu Liang
Stop complaining and stop being so conservative. A change is always nice. Variety is the spice of life and all that. Only the "Uber exped" Pvper's are annoyed, and that's because they can ALWAYS get groups. I'm glad this way I won't have to stand in HA for an hour shouting "R3+ Group LF members w/Vent & TS!" and only getting the response "LAWL U R ONLI R4 I AM R9 NUBZ" because the groups will be SMALLER - meaning if you get 5 friends now, you won't have to sit around in HA waiting forever for 3 fame. Besides, instead of sitting and complaining about all the groups being gimmick builds, with a lower party size, you can fill up a group quicker and start BEATING these gimmick builds. Instead of everyone sat around this thread complaining about only IWAY being run, perhaps you should set up groups together and beat IWAY.
supaet
How come you people don't understand. Stop going back and forth. Those who said 6v6 is good, those who said 8v8 is good. They both have reason to be good. But what Anet doing is one or the other. Can you guys all unite and push them to offer both modes so we can CHOOSE?
Rinobmxteen
coming from a person that has played gw since beta i feel that this is a BIG mistake that anet is doing. the reason i feel this way is because all anet is doing my making halls or ha or w/e you call it 6v6 is because they want all of the guilds/players that win halls a lot to have a more difficult time holding. also they want the "noobs" to have a chance at winning, but the thing is anet everyone was a noob at one time. they need to learn how to play just like everyone else. also 6v6 is going to be vim+dual smite+ thumpers and thats about it. I feel that my making ha 6v6 it will cause the "old school" tombs players to begin gvging because they will be sick of the same old builds over and over again which will even become worse then it is now. and btw this is to the person at that last 6v6 that said ta players will become the next halls champions. that will not happen just as it did not happen during the double fame weekend they are to different things and the monk styles are also too different
YesNo
Of course the unskilled, unranked players love 6v6, but for the experienced players this change brings a closing of guildwars. The only reason people 'loved' the 6v6 weekend was double fame. I made 1300 fame in 2 days over that weekend, which would be 650 in 2 days nondouble fame. Everyone thinks this will be 'fun', how is facing ViM every other match 'fun'? With 8v8 there is more coordination required. Yes all you noobs are jumping for joy that you might be able to make it past Burial Mounds now, but for us older players who have sat through Anet's constant mutilation of tombs this is an outrage. They take away our rifts, then they kick us from the tomb of primeval kings, take away our unworthies, change halls to 4 minute timers, and now change the party size? This game isn't even recognizable anymore.
Yagyu_Jyubei
I wouldn't be surprised if one of the changes would be something like 4 Teams divided into 2 groups 12vs12 or something like that .... anyway I'm curious what has Anet for us let's hope for the best.
Jetdoc
Anyone else think that this is a preface to having a new 8v8 PvP contest in Nightfall?
Mia R
What would GvG guilds think if Anet suddenly made GvG 6 v 6?
They might feel a bit upset like the alot of the HA guilds do at the moment!
Ahh I am surrounded by depressed players atm ...thankyou ANet !
They might feel a bit upset like the alot of the HA guilds do at the moment!
Ahh I am surrounded by depressed players atm
...thankyou ANet !
Wildkat
This may be a bad financial move as well.Why would people buy more character slots when there are less options to play in HA?Was also looking forward to playing a support build that is slightly flexable on skills.Some of the new rit and assasin Nightfall skills looked like they would fit in nicely in 8 v 8 HA.Not any longer......It's hard enough to be flexable in 8v8.Try running a mod in 6v6 and you will be kicked from the group faster than a blood spike's spike.The arguement came up about so many iway,bloodspike,vim,exc in tombs.Big deal,there will always be a popular build and counters to it.Will sadly be looking for another game to play once this goes into effect as the 8 v 8 gvg doesn't have as much variety as 8 v 8 HA and gvg is a whole different atmosphere.Played during the 6 v 6 weekend and saw more copies of the same build than ever before.It was also harder to make a counter to the build because there was less room to work with skillwise and support wise.As far as finding a group also had more trouble as there was no need for some of the classes that I like to play.Oh well ,more free character slots ....
Fantus
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Originally Posted by Zubey
One weekend wasn't enough for people to fully explore the format.
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(End Sarcasm)
Yu Liang
I think that I can see the idea of making a separate 6v6 arena and a separate 8v8 arena. Who knows? Perhaps this is "tentacles in the battle isles" and a ploy of "Buy Nightfall or you won't get 8v8 back". I think the change is good, but being allowed both choices is a good idea. That way the less experienced players could build up their skills in 6v6, ready for 8v8.
Trixz
Ok is everyone forgetting that thumpers and smitters have all taken a major beating to the head since The 6v6 HA Event? I'm thinking so. Everyone needs to stop crying and give it a chance. Like quite a few said a new metagame is going to take more then, what, a weekend to develop? Lets face it HA was becoming stale and repetitive and it needed this. If you don't like it, don't play, its really that simple.
-Trixz
-Trixz
YesNo
[QUOTE=Wildkat]Played during the 6 v 6 weekend and saw more copies of the same build than ever before.QUOTE]
True that. Here is a recap of the opposing teams builds I would run into:
ViMway, ViMway, dual/triple smite, ViMway, dual/triple smite, condition build (melandru's poison, taint), ViMway
You get the idea. And with elss people there is less to work with skillwise to bring the appropraite counters, so balance you say? I think not.
True that. Here is a recap of the opposing teams builds I would run into:
ViMway, ViMway, dual/triple smite, ViMway, dual/triple smite, condition build (melandru's poison, taint), ViMway
You get the idea. And with elss people there is less to work with skillwise to bring the appropraite counters, so balance you say? I think not.
xulidan
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Originally Posted by Yu Liang
I think that I can see the idea of making a separate 6v6 arena and a separate 8v8 arena. Who knows? Perhaps this is "tentacles in the battle isles" and a ploy of "Buy Nightfall or you won't get 8v8 back". I think the change is good, but being allowed both choices is a good idea. That way the less experienced players could build up their skills in 6v6, ready for 8v8.
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RA TA- Gladiator points
HA-fame/rank
GVG-Champion points
AB-Kur/Lux points
so the new arena- Some new point-system maybe? What u guys think.
Shanaeri Rynale
Just a thought.. Maybe they'll sell the ability to play 2 extra players available in the Gw store...
(hides)
Sorry for the frivolity, I do hope they create a seperate 6v6 woth 1/2 fame instead. it'll help the new players and yet keeping 8v8 will ensure the veteran HA players are happy and so continue to add valuable insight into the game.
Many PvP guilds are geared around the 8 player format, many of them will need to radically rethink their entire structure and team formation. In a time when a lot of guilds are quiet and the game as such is in cruise towards NF such distruption to Guilds may well prove to be the end of them. That cannot have AN's intent. Shake the metagame up sure, but do so in a way that is non distructive.
(hides)
Sorry for the frivolity, I do hope they create a seperate 6v6 woth 1/2 fame instead. it'll help the new players and yet keeping 8v8 will ensure the veteran HA players are happy and so continue to add valuable insight into the game.
Many PvP guilds are geared around the 8 player format, many of them will need to radically rethink their entire structure and team formation. In a time when a lot of guilds are quiet and the game as such is in cruise towards NF such distruption to Guilds may well prove to be the end of them. That cannot have AN's intent. Shake the metagame up sure, but do so in a way that is non distructive.
broodijzer
I like this change. I'm in a small guild at the moment (16 members), and there are rarely more than 6 on at a time. Now we can have our little guild party doing HA 
Scutilla
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Originally Posted by Marz08
Ok So They are changing HA.Explain This Then.On the Factions Booklet it shows a Gladiators Isle East Of Team Arenas.I dont know one person too have actually been there!.
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I for one could care less, considering I have a whopping 18 fame to my name (16 of it was from the 6v6 weekend, mostly because some guildmates goaded me into HAing with them).
Like every other "oh noes it's the end of GW" crisis that comes along, there will be a lot of people saying that they don't like it and are going to quit over it, and a few might actually do so. But life will go on- those who like it will have a blast with it, and the majority of those who don't will either learn to like it or get over it and move on to something else.
I really don't think ANet's stupid enough to make a change that will alienate more players than it will make happy. You can make sweeping generalizations about "most high-ranked players don't like this" or "people were only saying they liked it because of the double fame event", but ANet has among other things people that comb the fan forums every day to see what the community thinks about certain issues, and are in a much better position to make an informed decision than Joe Schmo Forum Member. I guess they determined that such a change would make the majority of the community happy.
Yu Liang
Well, if there was a new 6v6 arena separate to 8v8 - it could be the same amount of fame given. Then you could consolidate all your existing ViMways into one affordable monthly arena. Or something to that affect. We could even bring in Carol Vorderman to advertise it.
Sarevok Thordin
IT's amazing the ammount of old men like elitists saying "O I WON'T BUY NIGHTFALL CUS I CAN'T IWAY ANYMORE"
NF wasn't going to affect your precious IWAY build, if you are too set in your ways to do anything BUT IWAY, hush.
I welcome this change with open arms. Maybe the size will go back up once people get a feel for paragons and dervishes and can see their gimmick killing powers (if any)
oh and,
*puts on shield against GTFO PvE noob elitists*
NF wasn't going to affect your precious IWAY build, if you are too set in your ways to do anything BUT IWAY, hush.
I welcome this change with open arms. Maybe the size will go back up once people get a feel for paragons and dervishes and can see their gimmick killing powers (if any)
oh and,
*puts on shield against GTFO PvE noob elitists*
Boofhead
[QUOTE=YesNo]
Here's a recap of the current HA metagame: iway, iway, iway, bloodspike, iway, iway, bloodspike... you get the idea. Less skill slots means you'll have to be more thoughtful about your skill choices... or maybe you'll have to out-play the other team instead?
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Originally Posted by Wildkat
Played during the 6 v 6 weekend and saw more copies of the same build than ever before.QUOTE]
True that. Here is a recap of the opposing teams builds I would run into: ViMway, ViMway, dual/triple smite, ViMway, dual/triple smite, condition build (melandru's poison, taint), ViMway You get the idea. And with elss people there is less to work with skillwise to bring the appropraite counters, so balance you say? I think not. |
Fantus
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Originally Posted by broodijzer
I like this change. I'm in a small guild at the moment (16 members), and there are rarely more than 6 on at a time. Now we can have our little guild party doing HA
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lightblade
6v6 allows more build varity
Do the math!!
10 nCr 8 = 45
// 10 different professions with 8 player team; You'll only get 45 different combinations
10 nCr 6 = 210
// 10 different professions with 6 player team; You'll get 210 different combinations. Even if only 1/4 of these combinations work, that's still more than 8 player teams
12 nCr 6 = 924
// 12 different professions with upcoming chapter 4; You'll get 924 different combinations. Compare to...
12 nCr 8 = 495
// 12 different professions with 8 player team; You get 495 different combinations.
Conclusion: Those pre-searing cadets that's against 6v6 should join the forum discussion more. You're all playing cookie cutter builds like vimway and blood spike.
NF IS going to effect both IWAY build AND VIM builds. Well of Silence, Signet of Sorrow, Vocal Minority, and Ulcerous Lungs are all skills that's made specifically to counter Shouts and Chants (including IWAY and VIM).
Do the math!!
10 nCr 8 = 45
// 10 different professions with 8 player team; You'll only get 45 different combinations
10 nCr 6 = 210
// 10 different professions with 6 player team; You'll get 210 different combinations. Even if only 1/4 of these combinations work, that's still more than 8 player teams
12 nCr 6 = 924
// 12 different professions with upcoming chapter 4; You'll get 924 different combinations. Compare to...
12 nCr 8 = 495
// 12 different professions with 8 player team; You get 495 different combinations.
Conclusion: Those pre-searing cadets that's against 6v6 should join the forum discussion more. You're all playing cookie cutter builds like vimway and blood spike.
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Originally Posted by Sarevok Thordin
NF wasn't going to affect your precious IWAY build, if you are too set in your ways to do anything BUT IWAY, hush.
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lennymon
Anet knows there's a split on this issue, I'll be watching for a new 8v8 arena soon.
Shanaeri Rynale
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// 12 different professions with upcoming chapter 4; You'll get 924 different combinations. Compare to... 12 nCr 8 = 495 // 12 different professions with 8 player team; You get 495 different combinations. |
Either run the numbers including the assumptions for both using ch4, or better still remove the assumption altogether.
dargon
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Originally Posted by Wildkat
This may be a bad financial move as well.Why would people buy more character slots when there are less options to play in HA?Was also looking forward to playing a support build that is slightly flexable on skills.Some of the new rit and assasin Nightfall skills looked like they would fit in nicely in 8 v 8 HA.Not any longer......It's hard enough to be flexable in 8v8.Try running a mod in 6v6 and you will be kicked from the group faster than a blood spike's spike.The arguement came up about so many iway,bloodspike,vim,exc in tombs.Big deal,there will always be a popular build and counters to it.Will sadly be looking for another game to play once this goes into effect as the 8 v 8 gvg doesn't have as much variety as 8 v 8 HA and gvg is a whole different atmosphere.Played during the 6 v 6 weekend and saw more copies of the same build than ever before.It was also harder to make a counter to the build because there was less room to work with skillwise and support wise.As far as finding a group also had more trouble as there was no need for some of the classes that I like to play.Oh well ,more free character slots ....
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Uhm, can I have some of the drugs you're smoking? People don't buy character slots just so they can play a particular class in HA. As for special builds, if you're worried about getting kicked from a team because your build isn't standard, MAKE YOUR OWN TEAM.
Mia R
Please excuse the sarcasm I am about to use...but
I think 6 people underworld teams with the monsters nerfed..to make it more fun ..is a good idea, just like 6 v 6 HA
What u think Anet go go go make an event weekend for it !
I think 6 people underworld teams with the monsters nerfed..to make it more fun ..is a good idea, just like 6 v 6 HA
What u think Anet go go go make an event weekend for it !
Wildkat
Yes I will be more thoughtful about my skill choices.I will just bring cg to shut down a monk in a 2 monk backline.Gg.Will be a lot less fun "outplaying" the hordes of condition builds that were in HA over the weekend.Why bother to use new skills when there is simply less room for flexability.A lot of the skills in Iway have been nerfed and bring a mes ot two or a water ele against bloodspike.It does wonders.So many people crying over two builds.Look at the reasoning for them 6 N/mo or 5 n/mo and a rit=a crapload of healing without sacrificing much damage along with the extra en from spirits.Iway(before all the nerfs)eoe,easy enchant removal,tf,iway,lots of traps,snares and intterupts from the pd.The sad thing is if you look at some of the Night fall skills closely enough they seem to be good counters to some of the fotm builds today.Avatar of Melandru and aoe scythe will definitly pose problems for vim .....at least in 8 v 8 anyway.6 v 6 = a mad rush for the backline.Not fun at all.
natuxatu
Hm well I could care less about this I'm just sad that the Green Drop weekend got pushed back >< It was the first "double whatever weekend" that I was excited about.
supaet
For those that are for the 6v6, please don't be selfish. If you want a new game play mode 6v6, please petition to anet and ask them to create an new pvp game type. 8v8 and 6v6 is totally different. It's good to bring on new game plays but please do not kill off the existing ones. LET PLAYERS CHOOSE. One more time to all the poster of this thread: STOP SAYING which mode is better. UNITE and get ANET to offer BOTH modes, then we're ALL HAPPY.
Cnegurozka
You are right Tim~, this is good for everything you said. But the "few" players that are playing HA now will lose every they played in GW now! 6v6 isn't a general bad idea, but it is worth kicking out HA?
You need to face one thing: this isn't a change on HA, this is shutting down HA and putting a new arena named HA up instead. Maybe it would be a nice addition but not at the expense of the whole Tombs like it has been from beginning. I don't know what you are playing, but how would you like it if they make gvg 4v4? (just an example for you gvg folks out there)
You need to face one thing: this isn't a change on HA, this is shutting down HA and putting a new arena named HA up instead. Maybe it would be a nice addition but not at the expense of the whole Tombs like it has been from beginning. I don't know what you are playing, but how would you like it if they make gvg 4v4? (just an example for you gvg folks out there)
supaet
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Originally Posted by TimTimTimma
You do if 75% of that "large portion" welcome/want the change. If 75% are willing to accept it, than 20% are willing to debate about it, and about 5% or less are willing to rage the game or HA completely. I don't ha at 8v8, if I want 8v8 I gvg. It is 6v6, so I will probably be doing alot of 6v6, and I know there are alot of people like me out there so I am sure the actual number of players in HA will only increase from this. It gives gvg guilds a good alternative to gvg when only 6 core are online. This change is adding alternatives to low end pvp and high end pvp. You no longer gotta do 4v4 or 8v8. You now can 4v4, 6v6 or 8v8. People love choices, thats all there is to it.
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