Change to Heroes' Ascent

What's in HA now? IWAY and bloodspike. It's okay to be afraid of change; in time you will learn to accept it.

So much moaning...

"all we'll see is smite/iway" this really points out the limits in your imagination.
If those teams are already present in 8v8 what on earth is going to change then?

I find it a good thing.

I allways wondered how the D&D Spell "Wail of the Banshee" would look like. After seeing this thread i'm pretty sure it includes words as "nerf" or "elite" and assumptions as "everyone not of my opinion is a noob.". Thanks a lot dudes for solving this mystery.

I for one like the change. 6vs6 is a lot more intense than 8vs8. The typical HA play allways felt somewhat slow paced, downright boring. With those 8 players you could still easily beat most teams if one or two party members were drunk. You're going to feel that a lot more in 6vs6. There just is no leaning back. The battles will be faster and more action paced which is a good thing.

About the builds: Uh so what? We will face more Smiting Teams? Do you see that word "more" in it? Nothing is really going to change for the first weeks as it will be cookie cutter builds all over again. This aspect of HA is never going to change.

To the quit-whiners:
Bye. No one cares.
It's just a childish threat anyways.

Frankly tombs has sucked since A.net introduced rank...it used to be played for fun.

Now you're just as likely to run into some fool power gammer trying to grind himself to the next rank then any real pvp inthueist. When it becomes about maintaining that elitist seperation and not about the fun well...just read all the post in this forum and you'll see the problem. Half of the people in this forum need to grow up. Having rank 8 does not make your opinion any more important then some 'nub'...and if you're gonna quite over this...good bye.

Personally I doubt this'll make much of a difference to the cookie build concept, since fame is STILL here to tempt people to use the same build over and over.

What I hope DON'T happen is ANet taking away all the good maps such as relic run, king of the hill. What's worse, don't freakin add npc defense or some moral boost flag holding thing. (aka don't turn HA into GvG)

Personally I find GvG absolutly boring, cuz of the lack for true fighting strategy other than movement strategies. (block gate, sneak sin by to kill npc, split team blah blah). Every match on observer mode I see is pretty much a game of moving constantly back and forth back and forth back and forth trying to tempt people into making mistake. This I find boring.

In HA, mesmer have to multitask on ghost and players at the same time, and not just shutdown/shatter/drain. Monk have a tougher time due to spiking. Necro can actually do more than just warrior hate/curse unlike gvg. Ele is more than blindbot and snarebot because of their altar wrecking fire spells. Ranger spirits actually DO SOMETHING more useful, and trap actually get a use. Rit and SIn gets a bit more play time than in GvG. Most importantly, a coordinated defense team can actually do something unlike in GvG where they just go split team making it pointless.

I hope they make another 8v8 arena WITHOUT RANK similar to HA, I find 8v8 HA the best part of GW because of the variety. (and yes, iway followed by rangerspike followed by vim is, to me, more variety than facing a balanced team everytime in GvG).

poll results after the 6 man HA weekend.



150 people voted yes and only 12 votes against it

ROFL @metagame, it was just one weekend... And you think that based on one weekend you can actually even speak about 6vs.6 metagame? Instead of threathening to quit whenever somethings doesnt go the way you like, give it a chance and after a month or so give some contructive criticism.

HA was broken, it needed a fix, hopefully the map changes + 6vs.6 will do this. Be happy a lot of team will run VIM-way, its easy to beat.

BlueSS, interesting result, but I'm sure the whiners will point out that it is not a significant sample size.

I'd like to point out to the whiners in advance, that the Guru population isn't a significant sample size either.

A poll of 150 pve players to decide the future of the pvp aspect of the game? thats kind of like holding an election in norway to decide the poloitcal fate of japan.

You didn't even take the trouble of reading the above post before you replied
A poll can only be representative if AT LEAST 1000 people voted in it so no it's not a good example but it's at least been made and of the 173 that did vote only 12 voted against... It's not like the remaining 827 would vote against it now, don't you think?

Sure more people voted for the change to 6v6, just like more people wanted rare items to be more easy to obtain, because the majority of the people that play this game (mainly PvE side) are,to put it bluntly, kids that dont like to spend time getting GOOD at this game to aquire these items (or fame) so they whine 'I want now now now'.

The thing is, ANET make their only soruce of income (not including the new shop) from selling NEW copies of the game, so they dont really care THAT much about the guys that spent hour apon hour getting enough money to buy a perfect rare weapon or time spent getting fame because these guys dont PAY monthly fees, it seems ANET want a noob game for kiddies.

This game just gets cheaper and cheaper and cheaper, I really enjoyed this game when it first came out, I quit pve for pvp because of the way item prices are always nerfed (The greens, then the increased perfect item update now salvagable 15^50 mods o.O) now they ruin HA to make it easier for the noob.

Either way anet, 6v6 wont make it easier for the noob per say it will make MORE brainless farming builds and the elite will still be the elite.. but you give us less options and ruin what I think was perfect in the first place.



You just needed to add better maps.........

Sorry to disappoint you, but this poll is - afair - out of TGH.

Such polls are just a rough sign. Everybody can clearly see what the majority of highskilled PvP-players wants. Nothing was decided by such polls.

I think this is nice. It gets rather boring after a long time of 8vs8 HA, same maps and facing mostly just the most popular builds all the time.

6vs6 HA weekend was a sweet breeze. We got to try new builds, have some great fun in a less serious atmosphere and we didn't face so many vimway/smite/etc. builds than we normally do when playing 8vs8.

I think everyone should take this as a new, fun and refreshing challenge. No hard feelings, it's up to oneself can one make it fun or not.

And we can still play 8vs8 in GvG.

Thats not the poll i voted on, I remember there being a 'I want a cookie!' option (cuz I definately wanted a cookie)

this makes me laugh.

so everyone who is for 6v6 is a kid from this point, k nice generalisation.

I like the change, something had to been done about HA so that more ppl get interest in it, elite players will always be elite players but if more ppl start playing HA who never played, this will be a good thing for the PvP community.

we will see what the future will bring, but I think it will be a nice change.

I totaly desagree with this change... 6v6 will be like TA, but with more 2 ppl..

I am on a HA guild, and now because of this we will probably disband/go gvg..

gg anet

I'm really angry at Anet doing this. Personally I really enjoy the 8vs8 aspect that was HA. I can see how people would want to play 6vs6 but I dont see why they should remove the 8vs8 HA to achieve this.

Personally I think that they should have left an 8vs8 HA and done a 6vs6 arena also. That way people would have the choice. The only way to play 8vs8 now is going to be gvg, thats where my guild will be concentrating their play time from now on I'm sure. Although to be honest I will probably be mulling over just forgetting about Nightfall completely now and heading to NWN2 as that is finally out. This may just be the final straw for me after all the err5's and whatnot lately, perhaps I'm not the only one that will feel this way.

I'm really going to miss running the 3 monk backline, I loved playing in that kinda of healing team and its gone forever now. RIP 3 monk backline

I hope there is double fame , atleast people that didnt start playing 3++ months ago, have a chance to get rank 3 without spending 1 month losing battles after the second map .

If there is double fame then ppl will just start LFG r8+ groups anyhow and r3 will mean nothing.

"Oh yess this is so cool, now i can actually play vim and get past scarred earth, im going to be rank 3 in no time."

Come on, give me a break, so now jst because you guys can't play HA and get past the first map we all have to play 6vs6?
You say there are too much vims in 8vs8, so it makes me think if you guys really played in the weekend. Its fun at first but then it gets boring. You can't hold, you can't win more then 50% of the builds played so basicly in HA you just lpay and pray for a build you can actually counter. Just because you guys are rank 3 and can't get to the golden maps it doesn't mean we all have to take the consequences.

I say nerf good players, who actually can win something in HoH, because they just win to much, make their skills be 30% less efective, that sounds like a good change in HA.

Thats another thing that nobody has mentioned, whats gonna happen to all the HA guilds? some people may want to gvg, others might stay in 6v6 and the rest will quit GW or stick to pve only, perhaps a lot of guilds going seperate ways.

Well, I hope they go to GvG. The middle tier in GvG needs some people too! (just kidding)

i think that 6v6 in Ha will be a good idea due to that there is no 6v6 pvp at the moment, and it isn't just TA with 2 more people, it introduces new gameplay aspects rather than just 4v4 or 8v8.

also as a side note, this really should be merged with the thread in the gladitors arena, which is on the same topic.

-edit

errm nerf the good players?, noody? i hope your joking....
6v6 its just there so that bad players can get to rank 3, it is a new game dynamic and if you can't adapt to that that makes you a bad player.

Then this is the part where i wonder if you ever got to the HoH, yes this is such a dynamic change now instead of 4 wariors in vim you now got 2 amazing, it really rocks your world huh? Come on, now we have more ranger degen and more vims so wheres the gameplay change in that, oh no i forgot now you can't play holding builds, thats good because they actually where so overpowered.

Im being sarcastic btw

Yeah what are you talking about?
If new players had guildwars 1 year ago they could be r9 now as easy as you got there.

Anet is just doing this to keep new people interested in playing the game so they can buy Nightfall lol.

Lot of players had GW for more time then i have and still are unranked, that means nothing.

Bad players only play HA for emote, i dont believe that a bad player that wants to be a good HA player cant do it cause of 8v8 system, the problem here is that most of the ppl that wants this change is "55hp monk lf ss/sv necro Ecto farming 50/50" "WTS req.8 LASER GUN IT MAKES PEW PEW 10000k +21314ectos" ppl.

Pver's will love this change cause it will be easy to get the "emote thing" and cause "deer is so cute".well what about Ha guilds? what about plyrs who actually liked 8v8 system and love HA? no one gives a crap about them right?

To those that argue about Sin/Rit were just getting in but now that where at 6, can't fit in new jobs? What would happen on Chapter 4 if it was still 8v8 with 10 jobs total?

There also about to implement a ton of new skills + skill variations. Once NF comes out, can you say the same old builds are still going to be there?

Anet has stated in interviews that they don't want things to become stale. That's why tweaks skills. They even mentioned about Fotm and doing changes if the community doesn't change every so often on it's own. This game was based on mmorph / casual play / magic the gathering. The magic the gathering element is starting to take effect and new skill / skill changes.

If you played GW for any length of time, you know Anet changes things to keep things fresh. Every aspect of this game has been evolved pve & pvp since it's launch.

Chests -> Keyed Chests
Attribute Refund System -> Change points at will in outpost/town
Tomb of the Ancient Kings -> Battle Isle
Fixed NPC's -> Customizable NPC's (Hero's)
4 Slots + 2 per merger -> 4 slots + 2 per merge + ability to buy slots
No Faction (pve unlock only) -> Bath Faction points + ability to buy onlocks
AOE AI Ignore -> AOE AI Run Away
Skills -> ALWAYS in flux
Armor (look = function) -> Armor (Look = Crafter =/= function)
No Greens -> Green Weapon drops
etc

The choice is this, you are entitled to your views. If Anet does not change it back after you state you hate it. you a) keep playing, b) stop playing.

The biggest thing is I feel anet wants to make HoH playable by all, and the real or "perceived" elitism (either way it's a problem) of having some complex process to "get in to HoH" goes deters players from hmm I'll try it out. "LFG R8 IWAY no NOOBS" and can't find a party goes against what Anet wants.

I don't aruge about needing skill to truly compete HoH but making it so people get get in the ground floor easier is what Anet really wants.

Why no making GvG 6vs6, that should make things even freshier. Thats sounds like a good idea.

Most popular?

...

6v6 HA sucked... i don't play HA often but i've never seen so many Vimway or Smite teams in my life. The variation is gonna be.... great? What the hell is a Paragon supposed to do? Or a Ritualist? Half there skills are supportive, theres just no place for them anymore.

If i was playing this game for PvP HA only... i'd quit. This change is just lame.

So, normally I would welcome the changes about HA, but 6v6? When I 1st saw that post on the gw.com, I started thinkin, I'm r11, I made like 18K fame so far & now they plan to destroy the game mode I played like 2000+ hours, it's just retarded, somewhere I read Leteci said, he got no friends, who welcome this supid change, that's the same with me. I paied for this game, many other players paied for it, we/they bought factions too & now many % of them can't play their favorite pvp-mode. Hmm, I don't know, I like gvg, it's fun, I joined a decent gvg guild recently, to play gvg every night, but what can I do when we are not gvgin? Play 6man? Prolly yes, till I get my phoenix, but what after? 1st prolly I'm gonna play different games till the guild can gvg & earlie, or later I'M gonna switch online game completely, this was the worst idea ever. THX ANET
Pls give me my game hours back, it's not fair & imo it's not really good for the nightfall, I don't don't think more ppl gonna buy it. I can't really get the point.

--__________________________________________________ ____________--

I c some people posting that 6v6 is goign to be vim and smite all the way but it nerds iway/bloodspike/vim realy hard, u can counter vim like always just run wont change a thing, the good thing is it will take more thinking to make good build and fighting, ranked group going to mean something again.


( Mainly iway is complaining)

6v6 HA is bad for several reasons.

1. game balance

This is most important IMO. I feel skills in GW are balanced for 8v8 play (damage wise and heal-wise etc). Making in 6v6 will make HA unbalanced cookie-cutter build arena.

Also imporatnt parts of metagame will be dropped out. Just to name few:

- spike (it is still possible to do spike in 6 players, but you will completely lose backline).
- balanced (anyone speaking about creativity ? balanced temas of many sorts are where creativity comes into play most I think, but they will become less viable now, because the main advantage of balanced - reduced effectivity at the cost of ability to face any situation, will be greatly reduced. There will be not enough place to take counters too all kind of situations in sufficient number)

Gimmick builds will become much more powerful because of inability to pack anough versatility into balanced teams, who if played well, can usually face most if not all cookie-cutter builds out there right now.

2. griefing possible and longer matches

Yes. You see right. All you people who believe it will bring faster matches are probably wrong (except for timed maps where it depends on timer). Reason is offense will be reduced. And I can still take 3 monk backline, now I want to see you fight against it with your reduced offense, when it is good for keeping 8-man team alive for a good amout time. The match will take forever if both teams are skilled.
And it will be possible to make griefing builds now. Right now it does not matter if you take some 8 monks or something designed to somehow get through Zaishen and then just our-bore opponent. Will not work because 8-man team has enough offense to crack weak point and land some minispike or soemthing, also spikes would make short work of such team in 8v8, in 6v6 they will lack power for it (unless they run without backline at all making them complete gimmick as well).

3. lack of high level PvP arenas

There are only 2 high level PvP arenas atm. GvG and HA. For more casual players, there are lot of more possibilities: RA, TA, Alliance battles, those PvP arenas in Cantha (not sure how they are called, Jade Quary, Fort Aspenwood or something?). 6v6 HA will stop this arena from being good for high-level competetive players for reasons described earlier. That will leave us with only 1 really competetive PvP and that is GvG. Which is hard to organise without guild or when not enough guildies are online. For these times (being without guild or when not many people in guild are online) the HA was perfect opportunity to do with friends and even taking 1-2 players from PuG (this will prob. no longer happen, since I have no prob. at all to make 6-friends team, that is if I bother to play that kind of HA anymore).

IMO, if they wanted some mid-step 6v6 arena, they should have made TA as 6v6. We would have then more diverse options:
4v4 random - RA
4 player team - AB (even though there is 3v3 such teams)
6 player team - TA
8 player team - HA
8 player guild team - GvG

That would be much better I think than 6v6 HA. Still I dont think it is good to change TA into 6v6, I only say it would be lesser evil than change HA to 6v6 if they can't make new 6v6 arena but have to change old one.

4. Fame and Ranks

Yes old debate. I know how alomost everyone deems them worthless. For myself it does not mean that much either (mind you I am not unranked). Though very high ranks (R11+ maybe ?) still mean something and the lower ranks at least mean you have been there and won some.
But with changing HA to 6v6 the whole concepts changes drasticaly, Fame would no longer represent experience from winning this type of matches (though can still mean to some degree you know maps).
If HA is changing to 6v6, either Fame should be reset to 0, or locked where it is and new ranking system being put into place.

So that is what I think.

For myself, I planned to buy Nightfal right from the start just for the new PvP skills (did not even finish Cantha yet, that PvE is simply to boring for me, I have it for PvP skills alone as well), and I was already preparing 8v8 builds based on Nightfall skills to try out in HA (and already did some during preview). Now I will prob. wait to see if they make HA really 6v6. If they do I don't know, either I find some good GvG guild (the one I am in atm we are just getting used together but they are HA-ers mostly, I did some GvG in previous guilds but they were disbanded for different reasons). Or if I find none, I will prob. let GW go. It was great game, but PvP is only thing I am really interested in GW now and from only 2 real PvP arenas they would destroy 1 of them, the easier accesible one to say.

Mc

PS: Hey, why not making weekend 6v6 GvG event, with double champ points rewarded and for 1100+ rating matches. Now seeing big success of such event (which I have no doubt would happen), make 6v6 GvG permanent thing and we are all happy...

I've read some post and I agree with Xiedon. This is a load of bullcrap. It's like anet is bowing under to pressure from PvE people. Like the thing with "PvE titles/ranks"

Time in HA will be more valueable than actual skill.

Nice suggestion. If it hasn't already been posted, you should put it in the "Event Ideas" thread. I'm in a good sized guild, but we don't GvG. This may give us a reason to try it.

Its GUILD WARS, its ALWAYS ben about GUILDS and their WARS. Imagine that, anet is cattering to what the game was built on.

I lurrrved the 6v6 weekend,
I think it makes Dual smite easier to do :P

Maybe you didn't see how many top guilds were doing HA that weekend instead of GVG? About all of them, GVG observer mode was practically empty. Maybe they were just farming their rank but none the less your statement about how "most/all good pvpers" hate it is completely illegitamite. Of course time will tell, but I still say that rank was far too easy to farm anyways and did not encourage any creativity.

Quite possibly the worst suggestion ever?