Domain Of Anguish

If all you really want is Razah then the easy solution is to get him through faction.

I pretty much don't care about DoA and getting into "certain" groups, theres so much more to do and better places to farm in Nightfall and DoA isn't the be all and end all of Nightfall.
To those that want DoA made easier, perhaps you would also like halls made easier.. I suggest everyone runs frensig for these ppl, after all everyone has to have their moment in the sun.

Primarily the way to counter most of the margonite clans here is a tank, whether it be assassin, warrior, dervish or whatever else. Vow of Silence, Obsidian Flesh, Shadow Form or Spell Breaker is a key skill. Interruption once those wear off is also key. Each team should have 1 sort of tank, 1 ranger, 2 monks one being prot and one being heal. 2 damage dealers, with AoE damage can be ele's or mesmer. Should have at least 1 of each of those though. Then a paragon or rit for support. People don't have to follow this and they don't need it to win. The co-op in the team and listening and patience can also win it for them.

Once more people get the rest of their characters there, this place will become a lot easier. With that party build up there, patience, listening and teamwork you can best City pretty easily.

So things you need are

Time and Patience. Don't rush, don't join teams if you know you won't be able to stay long.

Listen to the person leading the party, don't try to do things on your own if you don't know what you're doing.

Don't rage quit if you die, dying happens here and it will happen often. Instead stick with the team because you're needed. Granted as it has been said, losing one monk, you can still make it. Because of the above two things.

With those things, the right team whether it be what I said above or whatever you guys make..and the right skills. You should be able to best this place.

Guild groups/alliance groups will be good here, PUGS are too because people have been passing with them. But PUGs don't always follow the above rules, then again Guild/alliance groups don't either sometimes.

Sounds like Candy Canes are going to be in high demand again this year.

I don't have NF, but from what I read here it sounds like nobody has gotten to the Elite mission yet, just through the elite areas? Maybe Razah will come in handy in the mission, or maybe the mission will have 12 man teams? Just some thoughts..

As long as you just want him for PvP.

QFT!
/signed
/agreed! lol

Been trying to skim through this thread.. up to page 43 so far lol.

I have nothing against the difficulty level, it being an end-game challenge/elite area. But as for Razah, I seriously would like to know: what was ANet's thinking on this? Gaile, anyone??? You make a Factions hero only accessible after beating Nightfall and doing an insane (elite) Nightfall quest? That seriously makes no sense. It even says in the Nightfall book that Razah's profession is "variable". It didn't say "Ritualist" or "Unknown", and I was unaware that the two are apparently synonymous. I doubt ANet will change Razah to what he/she/it should've been (a variable hero) as they've gone ahead with this mistake, but hopefully they will at least make his aquisition easier. Please please think a little before you go adding random unrelating stuff in the wrong chapter ANet, please.

Has anyone even gotten Razah yet? How do you know he isnt variable profession in PvE? Or that there isnt a quest to enable the variable-ness?

Could be his default profession is rit, and you need to unlock the variable for pvp also..(this is probably not the case, but dont bury someone unless youre sure theyre dead)

If this happens to be the case I will love to see all the whiners bow down to Anet in droves.

Yes, people have gotten him. No, he is most certainly not viable profession.

Hey, if that turns out to be the case I will gladly appologize for second-guessing ANet. But when you read Razah's description (from the PvP priest guy), it specifically says "He is a powerful ritualist."

I would still very much like to hear directly from ANet on this. Gaile?

Actually, since I haven't heard about anyone unlocking Razah in PvE, we can't be sure about it - 4 gemstones make trhe npc let you through the door, what happens than - we don't know.
Actually, can someone who unlocked him in PvE share with us what happens after handling the 4 gems?

I'm in total agreement here. Leave the difficulty level alone, it's nice to finally have a true challenge in PvE.
However, Razah should not be this difficult to get.
As the only possible ritualist hero it makes no sense. If he was truly variable, or was even a second option for one of the other professions, I'd be all for the difficulty in getting him, but this is simply, far, far too much trouble for this to be my only option for a ritualist hero, and for me to repeat over and over for each of my characters.
None of the other heroes were even remotely difficult to get, so why am I so restricted in getting my ritualist one?

LOL...bet not one of you have gotten far and spent most of your life trying to beat the ELITE missions or waiting for some geek to tell you the build.

This is a game. definition of game...activity engaged in for diversion or amusement.

I bought this item as a game..not a way of life...therefore I should be able to play the entire game. I should not have to wait until someone tells me how to play the game.

Side note they introduced heroes as a main aspect of the game...me and 2 other friends go into the elite area with our heroes, the same heroes that finished the game with us...what happened demolished in seconds...again and again. So you create a game that revolves around PvE and the use of heroes, but then you say to be elite you have to play with 7 other players that spend all their time playing guild wars.

You say that since this is just a game you should be able to enjoy everything it has to offer, and since you are so fixated on the word "geek" let's take a look at "non-geeky" games. Let's look at basketball, it is just a game and, according to your logic, that means that you should be able to compete in this game easily without much time commitment, WRONG. Any game requires a time commitment and practice to be good at it. So go play whatever game you'd rather play or spend time with your favorite passtime because, obviously, high-end GW content isn't for you.

You can compete easilly without much time commitment. But competetive basketball is not aimed towards casual players, since it are PROFESSIONAL players who are competing in the high end competition...

therefore if I draw on the anology, you would say that high end gw content is only for the professional gamer and not for the casual gamer, meaning that with this contentupdate anet has entirely not catered towards its targetobjective namely the casual player...

So yes, he did have all the reason for complaining.

57 pages...none of which will solve anything.

Gaile is aware that most people think DoA is too hard. Gaile would have passed that along to Anet and any other interested parties.

57 pages of bickering back and forth solves nothing and wastes space.

Time to close.

LOL again....hmmm basketball, ok I can go out and play a game and win or lose have fun. Guild Wars...hmmm...warrior...7 million XP...all elite skills (291)...mapping 100% all continents...3500+ chests opened....protector titles in all 3 chapters...hmm lots else...just can't think of them at the moment.

I HAD FUN GETTING THESE TITLES ETC!!!!

DoA is not fun and has no aspects of fun!!!

I can go into FoW..UW..Sorrow's...the Deep with PUGs and have a good time.

DoA requires a group of 8 with specific builds to spend countless hours trying to accomplish. So say I find a group that is good...and we play for an hour or two and do well...then 1 perosn has to leave cause they have work and then the next and the next. Then maybe days later we are all on again for the same 1/2 period of time....but these missions require hours of play time. Hell even ANET starts to warn you after being logged on for an hour!!!

Why do they warn you to take a break after an hour when the mission takes longer? Hmmmm...maybe poor planning and catering to a select audience.

Like I said...more and more will get tired of it and find a new game that is enjoyable as Guild Wars used to be.

It is true that you can compete in Guild Wars easily without much time commitment but only against certain areas/people, just like how the casual basketball player can compete with other casual players but is in a totally different league as proffessionals.
Also, yes, Guild Wars' target market is the casual gamers but do you expect them to treat the casual gamers to the exact same content as the "elite" players? That's catering completely to the casual gamer because there is absolutely nothing to seperate the casual from the elite, which no game does.

Any physical sport/game: casual vs. proffessional
WoW: Non Raiders vs. Raiders
GW: Casual vs. the end-game-content-playing "elite"

All of these latter require time, patience and effort. There is a LOT of content in Guild Wars for the casual players but the elite players have to have something to seperate them from the casual, that being the Domain/Gate of Anguish.


Edit: In reply to the post above me, posted while I was typing this...

If you don't consider this area fun, why bother with it? I am constantly bombarded with people telling me to play WoW instead of GW but I feel that WoW if much more of a forced grind to even be remotely competetive while in GW, you can just start playing, go to RA and be competetive if you feel that that is fun. Noone if forcing you to play in the the elite areas that you don't feel are fun so why do you wish to insult those who find these areas interesting, challenging, and fun to them?

Artkin, you were basing your entire argument on the fact that a casual player should be able to do everything they want when they want.

I'd hardly call this a casual player. Being as I'd say you're not, I don't see why it's that big of a deal to find an organized group with a specific build and roll with that.

The Deep, Urgoz, and Sorrow's Furnace had gimmick builds for time saving and efficiency. That's exactly what people are doing for DoA now.

Then go do those, and stop complaining about how hard DoA is. If it's hard and not fun, don't do it! Not everybody can be pleased with everything. I don't enjoy RA or TA or Deep or Urgoz, so instead of complaining about it I just don't play it. I choose to do the other things that I do enjoy doing.

So you paid for a product. Can you honestly expect a company to produce a product that pleases each and every single person that ever plays it on every single aspect of the game? You can't. An expectation like that is not reasonable because it's just not possible.

　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　n-'）
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　　 ==============､　　　　　　　　（´Д｀； ）　＜　 This is a learning
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Gaile also passed on that many people hated Touch Rangers. But look at it now...

WRONG!!!

I could spend every waking moment learning to play basketball, football or any other sport and never become a professional. For one I'm too old and do not have the size or talent levels.

But, I could spend every waking moment and maybe become what ANET calls an elite player I guess. Just try over and over again or wait until sombody tells me how to do it.

So let's see...I quit my job and play GWs so I can become "elite", wow...how then do I pay for my internet service? I would guess that more than 99% of players are in the same situation as I. So we are all non-elite and ANET caters towards the 1% or less, the professional gamers. What kind of future is that? It's not like the rest of us are going to sit and watch them play as we do football or any other professional sport.

I really hope that's not what she tells them. Being hard is a good thing. It's the being boring, not fun, and lousy rewards that's bad. Razah needs to be taken out, and some better reward put in his place. And if it's supposed to be harder than FoW, then it should garner better drops than FoW as well. There needs to be a better strategy involved than just ridiculously overwhelming odds and insta-kill spikes.

Yep... No one cares about the fact that it's difficult. The way it's done is what people don't like. At least that's what I'm getting from the majority of people. I hope Gaile passes it along. Speaking of which... what are people saying about DoA on other fourms? Same things overall?

Another well said comment!!!

prediction....

Chapter 4 or an update...level increases for characters!!!

how else do they expect a group of 8 level 20s to fight a group of 10 or more level 28s

People are saying on GWO, and I'm quoting topic titles here:

Basically the same.

Evidently being elite enough doesn't include proper grammar.

DoA isn't representative of all of GW. If you have more fun with the other aspects of GW, then start a new character... they didn supply you with several character slots, AND the option of getting more. DoA is only ONE of the Elite missions/areas, so if you think that the Deep, or Urgoz are easier/more fun, then do those and drop the subject. And btw, there are certain builds, skills that are required on at least one character to make it through Urgoz/the Deep, so you can't say that you don't have to be "handed" a build in order to complete those.

People... please consider your words before you complain. You all say that DoA isn't fun because of mobs that kill you in seconds, yet there are people here who have stated their success with "thrown together" groups. My guess is that those of you who are upset that this is so hard haven't taken the time to do it several times, or to modify your build often to try and make your entire party work better with each other.

I am one of those people who haven't gotten through ANY section of this new area yet, but i'm not complaining... and you know why? BECAUSE ITS ONLY BEEN A COUPLE OF DAYS. GIVE IT TIME AND TRY TO WORK THINGS OUT. STOP COMPLAINING THAT SOMETHING IS TOO HARD BEFORE YOU ACTUALLY SPEND SOME TIME TRYING TO FIGURE IT OUT.

For a better analogy, i would say something to the effect of... We didn't get the computers we have today by just throwing something together and saying it was "perfected". Instead, we kept adapting and working with what we have to make it better, and more efficient. I'm sure most of the people here know what is in a computer, and most of them know how one is constructed. If you do, turn off your PC, and take the time to look at your motherboard, and think to yourself, "How did someone come up with all these relays?" They took the time to work around what they knew didn't work, and adapted to what they knew DID work.

Adapt on what you know works, so it works better. If you kill one enemy, then change the teams build to be a little more defensive. If you last a long time, but end up not killing a thing, then change the party to do less in defense, and add some more damage.

It's not that hard to drag a skill or two to modify your skill-bar.

Solution to DoA
Quite simple acctually. Get in a group with people who play smart >.<

1. prot up warrior
2. let warrior tank and hold agro
3. nuke
4. loot

I love that they have difficult areas in the game. I think it is boring that ANet seems to believe that making mobs have higher brute force is the only way to make them difficult.

They expect you to do so by making a good build and perfecting it rather than complaining about it on forums, like I and many others have done.
Also, unless A-Net makes a totally new game,(The "Guild Wars 2" that many people have been talking about) I'm pretty sure that their won't be a level increase, that would completely imbalence everything and require more grind to be max level and competitive which is not what Guild Wars is about.

So my question to you is why would a ritulist hero be placed here in an area that maybe 5 percent of guild wars players will even compleate. To rub in the faces of those that cant compleate it that you cant compleate your collection of hero's because your not elite enough?.... I am almost a 7thousand hr old player rank 6 in hoh and I am finding this area just short of impossible. I have been playing in DoA since it opend and watch one organized in many cases ranked HoH teams get rolled by the same set of bad guys over and over again... To the teams that made it through the city awesome great job ect.... But I have to ask should vent/ts.... every last skill from every chapter and only a certain combo of character classes be required to get the chance to get the rit hero? I have 10 characters total and wanted the rit hero for all of them..... Now I dont think I want the rit for even one of my characters. I mean if it is gonna take me on avg days to get passed even one part of this 4 part quest it is gonna take months to get every one of my characters through here... Do I like a challange yes... but running into a brick wall over and over again isnt a challange ... its pure stupidity... even if you do it with some degree of intellegence.


In fact I will go so far as to comment on Gaile's post in this thread earlier on......If it is so beatable for every character class in the game I challenge anet to demonstrate it and release tips and builds that will work for every character.... Keeping in mind that you should only use skills from nightfall after all not all of your customers bought all 3 games. I will be happy to monk for you with any skill combo you require...... I wonder are you still after almost 2 days of this laughing?

I agree that Razzah should not be so hard to acquire but that isn't my point, a rit hero isn't required to play the game and have fun, neither is being able to complete the elite area(s).

And maxing out a lightbringer title isn't a grind? In places like this when every extra percent of damage you can bring will make you more valueable to a party, the original model of all players being equal without grinding is kind of going by the wayside. I'm saying that this is either good or bad, just that each GW has moved to include more grinding than the last.

Wether or not people are willing to admit it, I think this is a big beef with a lot of people. Casual gamers can't get the last hero, and the players who can and are willing to invest the energy to get him just get a regular run-of-the-mill hero(one they probably won't so much as give a second glance to) for all their troubles. ANet really shot themselves in the foot with that "variable hero" thing. And I don't think people will be happy until they get something that at least makes up for it. As I mentioned before in another thread, I could certainly see myself putting up with DoA as is, for a variable profession hero. But for Razah? Haha! No. No thanks.

Well I'm not going to defend A-Net's Skill > Time Played concept forever but, as I've said, this is an elite area that in no way represents Guild Wars in it's entirity, the Lightbringer title isn't even required, even in DoA, if you have the right build, know what you are doing, and execute well, just like any other part of this game.

Do touch rangers still annoy people?

I havent heard much touch ranger hate lately.....

Or did people just realize...oh hey its just another build...


You guys should read the little guide in the Elona exploration league forum:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10085279

It doesnt seem very elite to me. Its about:

Proper aggro control. Proper tanking. Proper Pulling. Good Healing. Good Nuking. Good Trapping.

How is that so elite? Isn't that something everyone should know?

Guild Wars not a grind!!!! what a joke....the whole game is grinding

grinding to find groups
grinding to achieve titles
grinding to get money to by sigs to cap skills
grinding to find decent weapons
grinding to level your heroes
grinding for gold to buy armor and weapons
GRIND GRIND GRIND...many more examples

Why do they not cap the XP level, and keep offering experience for quests that will only be done after you are 10 times over level 20?

I think the main issue is that he's a regular hero whom you have to go to ridiculous lengths to obtain. Had he remained unique in some way(like the variable profession thing), then I'm sure no one would be complaining, as the difficulty would be warranted. But he is no longer special, or unique, beyond being the only ritualist, and the amount of trouble to get him is disproportionate to his worth.

One last comment to those that say many of us gripeing only go in a few times and give up.... I have done NOTHING and I mean NOTHING but join form create teams from people I know and respect in this game many many of these players are insanely experienced players from rank 6 hoh players all the way to rank 12... We are not n00bs we are not brainless and we do have a good grasp on how to counter various things. I am totaly sick of the whole your not elite enough bs... Many of those makeing these comments couldn't hold there own to fight there way out of a wet paper sack if the build wasnt given to them.

Find groups? Henchman.
Achieve titles? Just for bragging rights.
Get money to buy sigs to cap skills and armor and weapons? Doing quests and normal exploring provides you with more than enough money to buy skill/armor/weapons.
Level you heroes? They level up easily through normal questing, as many other people have offered advice on in countless other topics.

None of the stuff you mentioned required more time than normal play time or are completly unrequired to "have fun" in this game.