Domain Of Anguish

my guess is that Razah was supposed to be something more than just a rit, explaining the original 50k cost and difficulty in obtaining via PvE. I imagine they were going to make Razah has the ability to switch to any class as the previous descriptions had said. That would explain the difficulty/high cost in capturing.

So, what happened?

Well, quite frankly, I think they couldn't get it to work, so they made Razah a Rit and just plugged it in.

I just want the last hero...boy is it going to be a painful experiance...lol..and to add insult to injury..I have to do it with all my chars that I want it on..grrrr. Just give it some time and I'm sure there will be a "cookie" cutter build for down here...thats basicly what Gaile said anyway. We just have to figure out what do do...I think it's kinda supid though..we figure out how to use the paragon hero to make life easier in vortex area..then they decide to nerf the skills that were being used. I know..99% of the time it's what the PvP players were using in HA that got them nerfed...to bad for players that used em in PvE.

I've boldened part of this quote for emphasis, because as far as I'm concerned, it refers directly to the crux of the matter.

'Patience' is a virtue you need to defeat boredom, to get by something you're not really enjoying, something that's not fun. If these areas were fun, people wouldn't need 'patience'. They'd jump right back in after every failure, eager to do better.

And that's my biggest complaint: DoA doesn't strike me as fun.

From what I've played of DoA, I love what I've seen.... unfortunately there's a but ...

4-5hrs to complete an quest? I've been going out with 1 other person and 6 heros the couple of nights (yes, it is very doable), but after a couple of hours, one of us has to go... and we're right back to square one! How is full time professional supposed to find a single stretch of 4-5 hours in order to complete a quest? Break the 4 areas into 8 smaller ones and I'd call the update a wonderous success.

The problem is that "fun" is hard to measure.

They wanted to provide an area that's incredibly difficult to the best of their abilities. Now, something can be incredibly hard and fun at the same time, and for me, that was the case. I've tried it 2 times with random pugs to get wiped by the first mob. I've then tried it with a fairly organized PUG and we got around 1/4 done with the city before two people dropped. I then grabbed a few people from the forum DoA signup thread, and then grabbed some random people with ventrillo from the district, and we made it through completely. So for me, it was fun and hard at the same time.

Now, I can see how after trying this endlessly only to fail over and over again would take away the fun completely, but that's true with almost anything. The problem is, if they make it easier, it completely defeats the purpose of having an incredibly difficult end game mission.

It's not a test of abilities. It's a test of free time.

We Just got back from city, we completed the kill Lord Jadoth part of the Mallyx quest and did the quest from the forgotten in there.
It took us about 3 1/2 hours with about 1/2 hour of afk/smokebreaks etc.
We even had someone have to afk to pick up daughter and finished last mobs with bosses 1 player down.

This was only the 4th or 5th time in, a couple in group had been in a few more times. Our tank was the only one who has LB gaze, it didn't really matter for us what our LB rank was.

We took out time studied groups and patrol patterns, had a great tank/puller and everyone worked together, it was felt great beating one part of DoA!

one primevil armor for heros armor and a margonite gemstone for me, what a blast is was, got a few other golds too.

Now to try the other areas, woo hoo!

But this is also the crux of the matter: You can't just fail, and then jump right back in expecting to win. Half the battle in GW is builds. If you fail, you might have failed because of a silly mistake, poor tactics, or other battle factors... or you failed because your build (and/or others in the party) needs tweaking. You simply can't expect to just jump in with random skills and hope that your quick-thinking and battle tactics can see you through.

I'm having a lot of fun with DoA. Wanna know why? Because I go in, get slaughtered, then think about why I got slaughtered. After a bit of messing around with skills and team builds (synergy), I jump back in. I get killed again, but this time, not as fast. OK, something's better, just needs more work. This continues over and over until I'm no longer dieing.

This is fun to me. This seems to be fun to others as well. I personally like an area that I can't just slap on 8 skills and go. I've been doing that in all three chapters, and frankly, it gets boring. I'd have to actually gimp myself in order to create a challenge, which is fine with me, but finally there's a section that I actually have to try my hardest, and give it my best in order to get anywhere. Yay!

When people say "It's elite, it's not for everyone.", there's truth to that, not arrogance or elitism. This doesn't mean that not everyone can do it. Oh no. In fact, I will say "Everyone can do this!". The issue is: "Not everyone will do this!". There are players that want this challenge, as-is, and there are players that simply don't want to take the time or effort to apply themselves in the face of a big, honking challenge.

The only real issue I see as being a problem is acquiring Razah. Is he needed? No. But, as much as this game is on balance, and being 'competitive' with minimal effort, it's a shame that PvPers need only spend 6k faction while the PvEers have to, well, fill hell with ice. In a hero battle, the PvPer clearly has the advantage. Not just because of the difficulty of the zones, but the amount of time it would take to get these gems. This needs changing (as in, just let us in, forget the stupid gems).

arcanemacabre, I believe I *almost* teamed up with you, or two of your guild members from LOST the first day.
Unfortunately, I had to answer guild/alliance member calls, and couldn't stick around until the team was full. That was the only day I even tried a PuG in DoA, and ended up not even trying. (we went in afterwards with guildies/alliances, and have been ever since)

I'm glad you guys are having fun. We are also.

Very good post , well said !!

Well... I can measure my own fun, and DoA doesn't measure up.

I got annoyed the instant I entered the city and noticed the nonsense Margonite names. Why do I have to memorize what class each of those represents, instead of just english (or whatever language you're using) words that give you some kind of clue? I decided to do that some time later and went on to try another area.

Next stop: the gloomy place. Looks so awful I totally blanked out on the screen and played by the radar. Not fun because of the mindnumbingly awful graphical design. I don't even WANT to go there again and defeat it. Went back to the city some more because it was at least bearable to look at, if still stupifyingly ugly. Got bored really fast because the planning stages, group formation and skill selection take about 50 times as long as the actual playing moments. Not my cuppa tea.

I'll buy 4 gems to get my Raza, unless I need to submit myself to too much annoying gameplay after I bribe the gatekeeper. If that's going to be the case, screw Raza. (I guess I'll have to read up on that quest before I invest in gems.) Screw the rest of the DoA anyway. The place makes me cringe. Not because it's difficult, I don't mind difficult, I enjoy difficult. It just rubs me the wrong way.

Non-casual players got the Deep and Urzog's last expansion. So if Anet were taking turns... it was the casual player's turn.

Our guild doesn't do the Deep or Urzog. We think its dumb. And it has nothing to do with our skill lvls. We all did it once and once was quite enough. The rewards were not worth the wasted time. If you do it for fun, then great. The first time is fun trying to figure it out. After that? It's a chore. You can make more plat per hour in almost any other area if that's what you are into. You can get more greens in SF, if that's what you're into.

You can waste 90 minutes there, if that is what you are into.

So no one is overlooking non-casual players. If anything, it is the reverse. It was the casual player's turn to enjoy an expansion.

Please do. I would love to see them.

Casual players did just get an expansion, it's called Nightfall.

I disagree. NF is no easier than Factions or Prophecies. As far as the amount of time it takes to finish, Prophecies is probably the longest, but not by much. If you know what you are doing, it Prophecies is probably even a faster win because you aren't grinding anything like Sunspear points.

If Prophecies and Factions were just too casual for you, then why buy Nightfall? Why stick with Anet at all? And the game has nothing to do with "expansions." You have the opportunity to beat 10 times with 10 different toons if you want. You have the opportunity to try and garner a 10 title award if you want. I've not seen anyone with that yet.

You can say what you want to say about NF being easy. But you can't say you exhausted its opportunities. There are plenty of opportunities for you should you choose them.

I still don't understand why people said Guild Wars was too easy. If it was *too* easy and you weren't enjoying it because it was *too* easy.. you wouldn't still be playing it. Thus I think it should stick to the overall formula of all the other areas in the Guild Wars Chapters...

I've already lost interest in it but I still like the how it was designed.. with the collecting of items for the weapons and such.. hopefully they add a better area like that in the next chapter~

I well agree with this guy.

Elite missions are doable, It is about figuring them out.

I am working on Gloom part of the quest, if any one who is done being pissed at ANET and got some time to spend on elite mission it self, figure out what to do witht he foes that attack you when you get to the guy who needs to be saved. We cleared entire area, and went to him, and then were raided by about 50 foes in 4 min. Couldn't figure what to do.
I wonder if we have something to do with the SHARD of light that we recieve by the beginning of the quest.

Any one has any comment?? Lets make this thread a bit more positive.

I am done with CITY quest with a PUG Group. And we did not even have TS or VENT.

You know what I think. Anet added this area to stop ppl from complaining GW gets boring once you finish the main quest. So they purposely made it extremely 'easy' so ppl will spend months trying to complete it, or keep them trying...basically it's how Anet intends to extend the longevity of GW.

I am not sure this is the right strategy to adopt, especially if they just want to keep making things 'easier' and 'easier'. Most players might just give up and buy another game.

The majority of people buy games to chill and have a good time, not to be stressed out trying to fight obviously highly overpowered mobs.

Forcing ppl to party in Anguish to get the Rt hero doesn't seem like a good idea, though of course they took out the henchies because it was deemed impossible doing it with henchies.

What happens say 6 months down the road when the area empties out and nobody is around to party with, how the heck are players going to get Razah?

Solution for Anet is to change the requirement of gems to get to the heart of Abaddon. Give players the option to kill that corrupt Forgotten gatekeeper for demanding a bribe, just like we were allowed to kill that woman in the Orchard mission.

And I kind of disagree with you there. While NF is harder, it's made much more available for casual play due to the addition of heroes. Now casual players don't have to wait for 30 minutes for a party so they can play for 10 minutes. Instead, they grab heroes and can play for 40 minutes.

This thread is pretty much shot, despite what anyone says here it’s really not going to change things in the end. It’s best to come to terms with that if anything this thread was good for people to let out some steam.

There is only really two issues I have one being Razah, I wouldn’t have cared to much about wanting to get him if he wasn’t only Ritualist hero. I would have preferred A Ritualist hero over the assassin any day. I never took the assassin henchmen in Factions and I still don’t use Assassin hero.

Special monster skills, I’ve really never liked the idea of these. It cheapens the game in making things challenging I would rather have seen higher monsters levels. I had my doubts about LB and skills weather or not they would be worth the hype and thought cool something for PvE sadly I don’t even bother equipping skill anymore.

I think everyone would rather see balance in PvE, despite what people think you can still have things challenging and hard and balance at the same time.

Other then those two thing’s really, I’ve enjoyed nightfall a lot. And I think they did a great job so far.

But it’s time to stop beating the horse senseless

ive only skimmed over a few comments, and felt it was necessary to make one ... as some1 who commits alot of time into getting as skillful as possible in this game I find it pathetic that any1 who commits any decent amount of time on this game to complain that something is too hard... maybe you should learn the game instead of press c+spacebar on your warrior...look at the skills, read them, think of what skills go well together and can counter what the game throws against you (be it pvp or pve), just because alot of people run thumpers or searing flames dosent mean you have to...these are easy builds to run, dedicate some time and learn how to play a better build; ask around , hell even make one yourself. If you put some effort to learn the game then maybe you will find it more enjoyable and you will get better.

Sad if true. If they wanted people to not be bored after doing the main storyline, they should add something new and unique, not the end area all over again but this time on steroids.

we got what we asked for, an elite area, AND if i rememebr right back from Factions this elite area is much less repettetive, atleast the area in general looks unique to the rest of the area, not 12 rooms of same skinned gothic area or jade (dont' get me wrong they were nice looking), but still, i can't wait to get my mesmer there (Seeing my warriors got to much competition)

I don't think it's elite, or hard, just cheap.
It's a quick-fix, appease-the-hardcore, sloppy solution.
Missions don't HAVE to be 5 hours long to provide a challenge. I'm sorry, but wasting my time playing poorly designed content with little to no reward at the end isn't going to happen.
ANet have proven in the past that missions CAN be challenging without having to invest a huge amount of time; indeed, they sold they whole game initially on the premise of player skill being more valuable than time spent playing.
Let's look at examples of decent challenges that don't require a huge investment of time and sloppy, aggravating trial-and-error gameplay:

Dunes of Despair Bonus: To achieve this (without relying on the hit-or-miss traversal/rebirth exploit) requires a good degree of teamwork and an open and frank discussion of tactics at the start of the mission, otherwise you WILL fail. But the mission itself takes a maximum of 30 minutes. A fantastic example.

Eternal Grove Bonus: Again, to get the bonus requires careful planning and all players involved have to be on their toes to ensure that all of the objective NPCs survive. And yet again, you don't spend 5 hours doing this, it's another 30 minute mission.

Gyala Hatchery Bonus: Keeping those baby turtles alive requires a good team effort with a big opportunity for it to go tits up if concentration lapses. Again, 30 minutes.

I could go on, and indeed, most of the examples I would use would be bonus missions, but my point stands: these missions require skill, not endless amounts of free time.
All that DoA requires is stamina. It's a WoW raid wannabe, where the devs try and force players to spend huge chunks of time there.

So to all of these people who think they are "Elite" for having the mindless persistence to keep trying DoA, I laugh at you. You really are playing the wrong game, and by crying that it shouldn't change, you're really saying that all you want is WoW on the cheap.

And to the devs: Must try harder. D-
Don't keep trying to make your customers think that hundreds of over-powered mobs with unbalanced monster skills in uninspired, recycled maps featuring cheap environmental effects is a valid way to make good end-game content.
Pull your collective fingers out and use yer bloody brains. You've proven in the past that you can do it, so do it now.

now i understand why DoA came faster then expected, it was put together quick and sloppy.

All you have told us is that you are unable to beat it and instead of tring you luagh at us who are making progress and are having fun ?.. i [pitty you .. stop look at thegame and enjoy it .. i would agree alot do not like this quest updates should be made but in the end it gives alot of people who dont find some of the bonus missions you find challanging .. (challanging ..) and now they do .. so stop griping and whining about somthing you can not comlpete .. and dont get all pissy about those who do keep tring and i bet 89% of them will get closer and clsoer intill they beat it .. and the satasfaction of beating it is a reward in it's self so i say to you nexus .. if you can not handle then heat get out the kitchen .. (its a game have fun .. its not life ^_^)

Believe me, I already have gotten "out of the kitchen", having quickly realised that DoA is a complete waste of time.
And the point is, I could beat it if I were willing to spend endless waking hours playing it, but there's the rub:I don't WANT to dedicate my life to beating a badly designed mission in an online game.
And if you REALLY think you're making progress, I'm afraid I feel nothing but pity for you.
Tell you what, there's a wall behind you. How about you go and bang your head against it?
I guarantee that given enough time you should be able to make it to the other side!

Don't worry noobs, I'm sure if you wait long enough someone will make you a nice cookie cutter build where you can click mindlessly on a couple of skills for 5 hours and beat the quests. Then you can come back and tell us how you have nothing left to do because the game is too easy, right?

Yes Nexus, please, troll some more. We'd really like to see more insults coming from you.

Not trolling, just stating what I perceive to be fact as so many other people are doing.
If I'm trolling, try and disprove my argument that there's more to creating challenge in a game than requiring an inordinate investment of time...

After reading the last 30 pages on this thread, there were several things which i am thankful for:

1)Favor wasnt needed to enter the area. They make Komir spawn 24/7 now each time you kneel before her statue giving everyone fair excess as long you completed the game.

2)Heros are allowed in the Area even though Hencies are not. Fair enough, its a compromise. Granted that Hencies probably wont have been helpful in there in the first place.

3)Making DoA challenging. Before DoA, there have been complaints of the decline of PuG and the game getting too easy with Heros+Henchies. Now with DoA, the urge to form proper PuGs/Groups with players who know their place in the party well with the willingness to cooperate for long durations with specific goals have never been more important. As for DoA being easy and boring, i dont think i need to elaborate. If anything, most of us here have to remember that we reap what we sow.

4)The community that share information/build. I will still be looking out for the cookie cutter group that will hopefully appear. Meanwhile those that are sharing info, keep up the good work.

I do not see this as a big plus point, you only need to enter 1 time and you unlock the mission area.

Regarding this whole "ZOMG It's only beatable by a few speicifc builds and professions"...

This is completely false. And people saying this have simply not beaten it with their character and want to attribute the failure to someone other than themselves or their teams. Get the rest of your chars through the game, and learn more builds for your failed chars.

I have beaten the city 3 times, in total, I have played with EVERY profession. i.e. ALL professions have completed the City in my presence:

Eles (8), Monks(7), Warriors(1), Ritualist(1), Mesmer(1), Paragon(1), Dervish(1), Necromancer(2), Ranger(1) and ZOMG even Assassins(1).

So, stop your complaining and your stereotyping and go figure out why it has not worked for you.

Granted, some classes will have it easier than others (note the ratios I listed above, 33% eles), but I must say, ALL The guys I have been with had one thing in common, they EACH knew how to run a build to help the situation. The Assassin and the Dervish ran a BRILLIANT tanking build. Made them invincible.

What they did NOT have is a tried and true build from Kourna to the Realm of Torment that they EXPECTED to work in the Domain of Anguish.

It's been 3 days and we have a 1000+ response thread with people moaning about it. If no one has gotten anywhere near completing it in a month then maybe the difficulty should be looked at, but it's only been 3 days.

Fast food, McDonalds gaming mentality.

Anyway, I know i've been outspoken especially about favor and some other issues(security being another) but I try and put myself in the dev's place.

They worked hard for the DoA, celebrated it's completion and were looking forward to seeing people dying, trying again working things out in a fun way. Intead they get moans and whinges it must make them feel as tho they wont bother next time.

I really honestly believe that AN would not have designed this place so that only a team comprised of X, Y and Z can complete it. There are builds being used, or yet to be discovered that will include the so called unwanted classes.

It just needs time, and thought. I suspect they built this area especially to last us until ch4 be that April Or August. So let's not rush, take the time and help each other out trying to figure it out.

^_^ exactly .. i have to agree one this this elite mission has taught me is to sit down and think of a build for my warrior that would hold asggro and keep me alive while others kill the mob .. after a day of thinking and calculating on what could happen if i usesed this skill would work and help defend my team from this skill etc.. and omg what sdo you know i succeded in doing just that .. as i run with 1,400+hp a stance to keep me up from being knocked down and a skill to recharge my energy when mantra doesnt work as fast as i want it to .. and bam i keep aggro as 2-3 nukers spike the mob and a 1-2 rangers spam there spuirits and the monks heal like no tomorrow ^_^ it was acomplished got past the castle and killed by the last mob in there .. but far better then i was before i decided to think and learn a build that would help the team !! think about it .. we all can do it .. all ya got to do is try ^_^

I spent 3+ hours in anguish last night playing my R/Mo using GC and winter as well as EoE which worked like a charm untill we got waylayed in a lil trap, doing breaching the stygian veil, third or fouth quest i think it was. since i was keeping spirits alive etc. single warrior puleld agro then eles nuked once agro was obtained.

this works well for this quest it seams dont know about the others though still refigning it, maby more party benefiting spirits maby Rit etc might help since youd be out the line of combat. my 2 cents

Ok, so me and an alliance member came up with an idea for a team build...any comments or suggestions welcome.

I seems to me that if you can keep them shut down they might not be so bad...

1 Ritualist with Earthbind / Binding Chains / Union / Shelter..

1 Necro with Soul Bind & Spammable hexes

1 Ele with Thunderclap (ZOMG!) / Blinding Flash..

1 Ranger with Choking Gas

1 Ele for generic nuking.

1 "Tank"

2 Monks.


It was the top 4 that are the important ones. The idea was to keep things shut down as much as much as possible. Thunderclap, Soul Bind (and Dragon's Stomp / Meteor Shower from the second ele) knocks down, Earthbind keeps them down. Binding Chains can stop some from attacking...until they take damage so you need to tell your wammo to resist the desire to stab them with their FDS. Choking Gas can obviously interrupt. I would have the Air ele take skills like Blinding Flash so as to further support the team as if they spam most air skills Thunderclap will leave them with no energy.

Anyway, is just an idea. Any thoughts?

Just finished Veil mission,, finished the city one yesterday,
Its not that hard as ppl are saying it is. Yes, if you make a mistake you can cause you whole team to fail in a blink of an eye, but hey everybody who goes into these missions has to at least know the basic skills they teach you in training at the begining of the game.
All it takes is a good war who can aggro properly, and casters who know wen to attack.. dont attack while the war only has 1 monster on him , wait till he aggros all then attack , aswell you need competent monks.
It takes a long time, about 3-5 hours to complete but hell if the team is good you will succeed.

So join Pugs, stay with them, dont rage quit and have a bit of patience and you will see that its not that hard once you get the hang of it.
Im sure these quests can be done in under 2 hours.. PPl just need to fine tune the spots to aggro.
Give it a couple of days. You will see more ppl finishing these quests and at the end you will all be able to aswell.


Just wanted to add the build we ran

2 R/me - 1 R/Me was CG the other was spirit/trapper.
1 SF Ele with echo ms - energy was not a problem
1 N/me - bip
3 monks - 1 active prot , 1 heal, 1 bonder
1 W/A

Worked fine on both veil and city.
yet to try it on rest.

On paper, it seems effective. The idea of shutting them down seems brilliant, even if it is simple. Bt who said all good ideas have to be complex?

Anyway, I'd say - with some slight tweaking here and there - that could be promising build for DoA. What I also *love* about it, is that it isn't 8 players of the same class. SF Ele anyone?

What could they have done instead to make it worth your time?