Dear Anet: Make Razah's PvE aquisition REASONABLE.........

/signed

The Factions ritualist hero should be found in Factions, and Razah is supposed to be something more (*hint* variable profession). Simple as that.

Did A-Net actually say that Raz would be variable primary? Or was this just a rumour that ran away and everyone accepted as fact? If someone has a copy of a Gaile post or some other source that says Raz has flex-primary, I'd like much to see it. That said, my god, how boring, a rit hero. Please, let me slog through heaping piles of suffering and gore to get a rit hero.
Don't get me wrong, I like Rits, i play one myself. But to have to go through all those lengths to get one... it's like getting socks for christmas.

now, i don't actually have Raz yet, but the only things i can see making him "special" are 1) did he come with an uber weapon equiped?
2) Are all the Rit skills unlocked when you get him?
3) does he never die or is self resing?

Shy of any of those things, i don't see how being a rit makes him "special"

Maybe if you could choose his attributes from ALL the professions. Imagine Raz with Energy storage and Soul Reaping. That would be spiffy.
Or maybe you choose his primary and it gets locked in... "choose wisely"

"The problem is, since acolite jin is the only ranger hero, you can't do that build. Now if Razah was a variable hero, then you would be able to do that build."

Margrid = ranger. Had you said a build that needed two mesmers, then you might have something.


"Henchies: I'd really be interested in seeing anybody completing DoA with 6 heroes (2 real players. If someone can do that, then I'd support adding henchies in. As of now, henchies would be nothing more than cannon fodder"

There is already a four man team that looks very promising, comprised solely of one player and three heroes.

If you're talking about Ractoth and his monk backline, I think that's still fairly limited in that he can farm certain groups, but most likely not be able to proceed to beat the entire quest. Also, his build only works because he can customize his heroes to whatever he wants. There's no way henchies can substitute.

Try reading the manual.

ftp://ftp.guildwars.com/downloads/gwn-manual-en.pdf (page 36)

I doubt most of the people who have gotten past Gate of Madness are "bad at the game". If you complete the entire Nightfall campaign with an Assassin or Dervish using heroes and henchmen, you are probably a fairly skilled player who is still pretty much locked out of the Domain of Anguish.

Add a mesmer to proph, a rit to Faction, make Razah variable and we're all happy. Razah as a variable would make him worth the difficulty of the damn quest but for now...meh.

Also if Razah is a variable prof he shouldn't be able to become a sin or Rit if you dont own Faction.

/Signed


EDIT: completly remade the text :P

In a way i am glad they made him a ritualist, so i wont be borthered with him or feel the need to get him despite everything else.

/signed

Make it a bit easier to obtain Razah, leave the DoA alone, otherwise.

All of you who are signing this topic are but a minority, and won't see this come about. It's a hard quest, understand that. Hard quests and determination give great rewards. Razah is that great reward.

It isn't our fault, or ANET's fault that you as a player are not able to be the best at this game to acquire this Ritualist. If all the quests where easy in this game, we'd all be playing Pokemon again and connecting the dots on the "Color me in!" book's we had when we where three years old. Myself, I don't have time to do this, but I am happy and content for others that do and are able to do such.

I love the idea of having an exclusive hero to an exclusive area for an exclusive group. Wait, your saying I'm being bias now? Well, not really. We all have the same equal chance in this game to become and be a part of that exclusive group. We choose to, and our REAL LIVES determine what we can do at a certain rate. That doesn't mean they should lower the requirements of him to satisfy a person who isn't able, because of their life and themselves, to play Guildwars as others and take away from the others enjoyment of this game.

Now, for me, odds are I won't ever acquire Razah. Mostly because the Heroes don't interest me in this game and I would rather focus on my characters I can play my self and further their story lines. If I get him, great. I'll be excited and happy and use him when I want to. Likely won't tho.

Please, for this forum, stop acting and being a bunch of immature players. It does nothing for Guru but make this site look like a site for noobs. Which this site most certainly isn't. We have the pleasure of having Gaile Gray read and post on these forums. She doesn't have to, she chooses to. So be careful what you say and how you are saying it, we all can read it at any given time unless a excellent mod deletes it .

Something I think a few people in this thread are missing is that every one for whom the Domain of Anguish is even an issue has defeated Abaddon at least once. I think that has to indicate at least a certain level of skill. We may not all be super-elite, but we're hardly n00bs either.

In my case, one of these days, I will defeat the Domain of Anguish. It may not be with the character with whom I've already defeated Abaddon. There's a good chance it will be with my ranger. It may require putting out my monk's services as a healer. But one of these days, I'll do it - because I want to see the end. And I'd prefer to do so without it getting nerfed, for the pride of the thing.

However, am I going to do it with ten characters? Am I going to be able to collect Razah with all of the stable I have now... let alone those that may appear in future chapters? I doubt it. Just how fast do those gems drop, anyway?

Before the opening of the Domain of Anguish, no elite area provided a mechanical advantage. As has been repeated ad nauseum, previous to the Domain of Anguish, no elite area provided a mechanical advantage. FoW armour provides nothing mechanically that you can't get from Kaineng City. The other elite areas provide greens, but most greens can be duplicated simply by getting the right components together. Okay, doing the elite mission may be a more reliable means of doing so, but with some decent drops one can match almost any green through adding mods to a collector item.

At present, however, the Domain of Anguish has a mechanical advantage as a reward - the ability to have a Ritualist sidekick that is a) available in campaigns other than Factions, and b) customisable. And this is a capability that, presently, cannot be achieved any other way.

So, what this comes down to is a question. To all you uber-leet players who feel that any and all PvE is boring and easy and who scream LERN2PLAY at anyone who can't stomp through any area of GW on the first try, do you REALLY feel you need a mechanical advantage over all the plebs as well as your mad skillz?

(Yes, I'm exaggerating somewhat... but this IS the impression some of you are giving)

I'm not saying that we should be given a Ritualist hero on a platter - just that it should be achievable by normal play without having to defeat an area that is designed to challenge the best. Defeating Shiro in Factions would probably be my yardstick - an accomplishment, but not one that necassarily marks a player as being among the elite.

Read through the thread. People, on the whole, aren't calling for the Domain of Anguish to be nerfed. Despite the thread title, I think most of us are happy to let Razah stay where he is, as a prestige hero with similar status to FoW armour and the like. What we want is a substitute that doesn't require defeating an area which, at least currently, is considered to be the hardest PvE area in the game.

i agree, but this move on anet part will hurt anet!, not very wants to spend +++++ meny hours to get him. then the hate of the ramped up elite aera

Some people don't get this statement, so I'll help Sarevok by simplifying it further.

Math is fun.
================================================== ======
LET RAZAH = RITUALIST

IF RITUALIST = FACTIONS ONLY CREATION

IF DOA = NIGHTFALL AND NIGHTFALL NOT = FACTIONS
THEN, RITUALIST SHOULDN'T BE IN DOA.
================================================== ======

Either that, or they forgot to put a Rit hero in Kaineng. Razah should be a Dervish or Paragon IMO (preferably Paragon since they are more of the leader type).

Actually, to play Devil's Advocate, having Razah be a ritualist does make storyline sense. He's a creature of the Mists, and the Ritualist is the class most involved with dealing with the energies of the Mists. In fact, I'm kind of surprised that there aren't more Ritualist enemies in the Realm of Torment (the formula seems to be that the only Ritualists or Assassins you see, apart from [SPOILER] certain imports from Factions, and even then I'm not sure I remember seeing the Ritualist or Assassin forms.

As I've made clear from previous posts, however, he shouldn't be the sole Ritualist hero in existence when it requires beating an uber-leet area to get him. It is also unfortunate that people with Nightfall only are limited in what they can do with him - although maybe in the PvE campaign he comes equipped with an elite skill so he does at least have something in the elite slot?

Did you even read the posts, again?

In simple terms:

This thread is NOT requesting that DoA be made easier. It is requesting that the only ritualist hero be made availible to the average player, just like the heroes for all the other professions.

The ideas for doing so are:

• Make the quest to get Razah easier
• Make another ritualist hero
• Make another ritualist hero and make Razah variable profession

Sorry, the online purchasers didn't get a manual. (they didn't have it in stores on my island) And the manual wasn't released on line for a while.

Yup. The minority of people who play the game and also post on websites.

Guess what? We're by definition in the top 2% of Guild Wars players. The idea that we're more 'noobish' than the average is preposterous - in reality we're disproportionately competent.
...Er, what part about it wouldn't be ANet's fault? The bit where the magical difficulty pixies came in and filled the area with Margonites that weren't there before? The afterefects of the magical quest-writing eight-ball?
You've repeatedly brought up the age card, I notice - a surefire sign that you're young enough to be insecure about it! How about we just extrapolate from your statements and fill in the gaps with guesswork: Pokemon first came out when you were three, is that right?
If the site never attracted noobs, you can be entirely certain that Gaile wouldn't read it. I don't know if you've noticed, but she's not exactly a regular in the GvG section... But she does post in the Riverside Inn.

We are intelligently commenting on a design feature here, we're going to great pains to make an argument for what would genuinely be best for the game, and we specifically aren't complaining about the mission itself's difficulty. I fail to see what we should be so embarrassed about...

/signed.

1-Rezah costs 50k faction or completing DoA
2-pvp players ask for a reasonable way to aquire him.
3-Anets fixs it to 6k
4-pve players ask for a reasonable way to aquire him.
5-pvp player yells "noob" to pve player.

seruisly, leave rezah alone if you like, but I hope Anet adds a rit hero that doesnt require endless hours of my time to get.

i understand and agree w/ the petition mostly. however, part of me thinks the player disagreement here would be the same if raz was variable.

not saying that anyone here plays like shat, it is an accomplishment to make it so far. parts of NF pissed me off but i made it to the endgame in time. this will either change by update or ways will be found around it.

in the end i always side w/ positive change.

/signed

Couldnt Agree More.

I think the rit should be apart of the first quest in GOA instead of after.

/Signed for:
* Giving a 6k Balth worth Rit hero for owning Factions
* Giving a 6k Balth worth Mesm hero for owning Prophecies
* Making Razah variable hero.

I'm not at all for lowering DoA's difficulty. But Razah definitively does not belong to DoA as it stands.
As we're here, just put a variable hero for each Elite Mission (Faction and Prophecies). I'd rather find Razah in The Deep/Urgoz than in DoA if he remains a "simple rit".

I will beg to difer that heros are not needed...there are many missions that require certain heros in NF. And yes I know none of these require the rit..duh..but I'm with the OP on this one. I love the elite area and have finished the city part so far, but making you finish these quests that literly take hours to do seems a little to much if you ask me. But if thats what it takes then I will endure to the end til I at least get him with one of my chars. Maybe they will change the req of doing all the quests...who knows, it is there game to do what they want.

/signed

/signed?

Maybe in the next game or some other time we should be able to make 1 and only 1 hero totaly new. We do all the normals of making a new character. We pcik the main prof, face, and stuff like that. The AI would be like other heros' and we will have to get our own runes and stuff but they get a basic weapon. AND they start at your lvl so they don't get pwned right out of the gate. d-( ^_^)-b

Im a bit torn on this idea;

/notsigned cos...

I like the fact you have to work your a** off to get him.

Simply put all you have to do is complete the elite mission, get your 4 rare materials from the NPC and then exchange them for Razah!

Simple as that!

/signed cos...

But I can appreciate that the elite mission obviously isnt easy. I havent even been in there yet and tried despite having completed the game and only having 2 quests left to do.

There are quests in the ROT which are hard enough as it is, so making us work our way through the elite stuff to get the last Hero will probably be frustaring.

/notsigned again cos....

You'l feel alot more accomplished and grin like a chessar-cat when you have Razah and no one else does. He'l have the status of being the elite Hero.

This assumes that hes actually worth all the hassle.

/signed

I very much like the idea of a rit hero, but I simply am not interested in spending huge amounts of time to get him AFTER I've completed Nightfall. Also, it doesn't make sense to have a Factions-only class as a special prize in Nightfall.

DoA's difficulty is fine (I love the challenge) but Razah simply does not belong there.

This is why I'm in favour of the 'add another Rit' idea. Not every Ritualist in the world has to be a semi-demonic entity born directly from the Mists...

As to the idea from chiefnoshow that if Razah was truly a variable hero there would still be complaints: Well, yes and no. Yes because there would be people saying they can't make team builds relying on three of class X without Razah (that's pretty extreme, but I'm sure there'd be a few), and yes because, if there wasn't a Ritualist hero, he'd be the substitute for everyone wanting a Ritualist. On the other hand, if there was a Ritualist hero available in non-elite play then the people who simply want a Ritualist hero wouldn't be complaining, and either way, if Razah was variable, the people feeling that the effort to gain Razah does not match up to the reward wouldn't be complaining either.

So, ultimately, while there'd probably still be unrest if Razah was variable, it would be less, especially if a non-elite Rit hero was available.

But then you have the rather major issue of implementing an "adjustable character". How does that work?

A player whos primary profession can change;

Ok so changing your primary skills would be easy, and using weapons would be easy as thats not professions limited.

But what about armor? A rather important part of any character and to any player.

The characters build and model frame , simply wouldnt be able to accomodate the alternative armors.

You could make unique armor to them which would only fit them, but then youd have people complaining there was no ritualist hero armor in game.

The way theyve done it, fixes all the issues, and it doesnt leave way for new issues to be raised.

We have a hero of each class and armor for each of them. Problem solved.

As for the debate about having 2 heros for each class.

The only ones we dont have 2 off, are Sins, Rits and Mesmas.

But I personally dont see a problem with that. I dont see why we need 2 of any of those.

Warriors I understand because of tanking.
Monks because of healing.
Rangers to create a barriage team.
Necros to have MM and SS.
Ele's to Nuke and alternative or to have both for mass dmg.

Ive been in teams and seen and used 2 of each at one point or another from that list.

But as for the other 3;

Sins I personally find useless.
Mesmas can be very powerfull professions and I think two would be overpowerment (but you could say the same about ele's), but I still dont see why you would want two. This could be due to never played one.
And I dont see why you would want more then one Ritualist.

This is all personal thoughts though.

But anyway, the debate is about how we aquire the Ritualist and as I already posted. I agree its hard to get them, but I think thats how it should be.

I think its good that atleast one hero is an elite hero and hard to get. Its like a status symbol.

If you want an elite hero make him Dio Brando or something,

I just want a plain ritualist, like someone from Cantha

We are not, you just think that is true, but is not, we are a mayority, read all posts.

Since Razah costs 6000 faction, there should be another available in Cantha that is unlocked for 3000 faction on PvP.
And another mesmer, available in Prophecies and unlocked in PvP for 6000 faction.

If these people WERE a minority, then why is it that the MAJORITY of posts agree? I also have to question your obsession with pokemon... You say you don't want "noobs" posting. Well uh... like you said, YOU don't have Razah. Now, this is a forum where READING IS A REQUIREMENT! So read this carefully. No, stop skimming this. Read it:

These people are NOT complaining about the difficulty of the Domain of Anguish. They ARE complaining that the reward just isn't worth it and there IS NO VARIABLE!

Now if you can't read or comprehend that and make one more post about children and pokemon, I will know that you have no real reason to try and debate something you know nothing about.

Simple as this. They should have raised our hopes about razah being multiple Professions. Those little hints and offhanded writting in that guide book lead everyone to the same conclusion. AND THEY SHUT US DOWN??? Well Screw you A-net. As for Razah being a Rit (Awesome Class, Rit haters Suck) He should be in the Deep or somewhere. A FACTION area. Reiteration ftw!

I'm not even close to where this is, but from the descriptions, yeah... I wish A.net would stop catering to the super-elite players and abandonning the masses.

/signed

I was expecting Razah to be variable profession, that would certainly make him an elite-acquisition.

Razah is a Ritualist, that does not make him in elite acquisition.

Agree !

/not signed

But I also agree that Razah has variable profession.

At least, they should male Razah 10+ different Heroes, tradeable at an NPC or something like that.

You talk to that NPC (maybe Razah itself) and it changes into something else.
Unlocking them in PvP would require unlocking each one of them.

/signed


Keep DoA the way it is and provide a Rit HERO that is accessible for the general public.

I dont understand this idea that because you need to do the elite missions, Razah is completely unattainable.

There is actually a quest to achieve him, you need to complete DoA once, get the 4 crystals and exchange them for him.

Plus it isnt really a question of just ignoring the elite missions and not doing them because you dont like them.

If you want to 100% complete the game, you need work your way through DoA because there is a quest at the end asking you too.

So to say Razah is only accessible to the Elite and not the general public is wrong. Your ALL going to be asked to do this quest once you reach this point, so its not out of reach to anyone.

The quest is obviously just alot harder then most, but thats how it is.

I bet most people who have /signed to agree to this post will probably finished nightfall in the next couple of weeks or a month, get to DoA and fly through it.

Then look back on this and think "what was I complaining about", that was easy.

And youve only got to do it once.

While I haven't scoured through this thread, I'm pretty sure the point is not that Razah is unattainable, but rather that "Razah's PvE aquisition is UNREASONABLE. ......."
Sure, eventually everyone will probably end up forcing themselves through the Domain of Anguish (has anyone else noticed how positively accurate the name of the new area is?), but they'll be doing it after they've completed all of Nightfall. So, for all of those who have every Factions Ritualist skill unlocked, obtaining a hero who can use those skills optimally requires going through an entire campaign and a monstrosity of an elite mission.

I agree that getting him at the end is a bit anti-productive, because the only place you can then use him, is in a future campaign.

Unless your going to grind for titles in NF or a previous game.

But I think the challenge is still more or less acceptible.

The point is; your last hero is acquired a few missions before the Realm of Torment, then the ones you did not unlock via the forked quests you can acquire once you beat the game.

The Ritualist Hero's acquisition is many magnitudes harder compared to all the other hero's and it does not make sense to most people why a Ritualist Hero is in an elite area. And you do not get the hero until you've beaten the game and get access to the Elite area. People want the hero playable through the regular game, not after you've beaten the game.

Thank you for demonstrating just how much you do not get it.

No, Razah is not the new UW spider.

The UW spider does not do anything that other pets can't. The UW spider does not have more health than other pets. The UW spider does not have special attacks normal pets do not have. Everything the UW spider can do, can be done with a common melandrus stalker.
It is simply a vanity item - just a question about looks. Mechanically there is no difference between an UW spider and any other pet.
Just like FoW armour does not have any mechanical advantage over plain max AL armour that does not require faffing about in so called elite areas.

Razah does do things the other heroes can not do. As the only ritualist hero in the game it is the only one that can effectivly use the skills in the spawning power attribute.
You know, this little thing about primary professions and primary attributes and how those primary attributes can not be raised if it is a primary attribute for your second profession.

Just to pick a random skill.
It's the difference between the skill 'Spirit to Flesh' healing for 30 points or 198 points.

Had they put Zhed Shadowhoof as the hero only available in the elite area, it would have been a valid comparison.
You want a my little pony hero to follow you around. You cap it in the elite area.
If you're not really bothered about your elementalist hero being a pony - you use Acolyte Susuke.