PC Gamer May 2007 Information - "Guild Wars Reborn"

I don't know if anyone has posted this already, I'm not going to read all posts. The point is, just because you can get to level 100+ doesn't mean your health will be 15000. You will just have a high level, to show off how much you can farm trolls, with the regular stats of a level 20 character; or atleast this is my assumption.

I'm sorry. I saw this on the way to "post reply". And again, I am sorry for bashing on you.

If you actually read the first post, you'd see that GW:2 has (To quote Gaile Gray)

No.
Monthly.
Fees.

And on a side-note, please use periods, that one sentence was very hard to read, there were about 7-8 different topics in that one sentence.

Now for my actual post...

I think I am one of the few that thinks this is a great step forward for Anet, in the sense that I always loved high levels (Really nice to see a whole bunch of different numbers, not N/Mo20 W/Mo20 E/Me20, etc.). I just hope it'll be a nice long experience.

The more I think about it, the better it all really sounds. So these characters will die of natural causes and there ancestors will continue the fight. We'll just had to hold all our judgments until the beta. So lets just hope that GW:EN kicks a lot of arse to tide us over.

Sounds like I would love most of it...the one MASSIVE flaw that ANet is making is raising the level cap to a possible infinity. I would prefer no changes, and if they had to change it, I would prefer only to level 25 or 30. Infinite will unbalance gameplay and destroy the concepts that make GW unique from WoW, EQ, and the other cruddy games out there. The most unique things about GW are the LEVEL CAP and the NO MONTHLY FEES. Without those, it's WoW in a place called Tyria.

.....most likely level = power, and if level = power then level will also equal grind. Missions and monsters will be designed to give you a challenge depending on the "power" you have. Because the world is persistent this problem will only get worse since there is very little way to "personalize" the enviorment to meet the level of the player unlike in instance.

hmmm im excited, I though I would never leave gw, i did after factions, i have NF, but i haven't opened it.

I can't wait to explore the charrs homeland. YaY ^^. as for gw2, Im definately buying it I can't wait)) something new

It's official. The Devs themselves said that the level cap is not gonna unbalance pvp and gvg.

GvG and competitive pvp will still gonna be level limited and item limited.i.e all player will have same level and weapons and mods. No unbalance there.

The main deference between GW1 & GW2 will be pve ... and from what i read, much more pve content. Ppl can actually play PvE for the Pve content now...instead of playing pve to make a pvp char like in GW1.

....this isn't good at all for pvp'ers. I see all of the pvp community trying GW2 for 2-3 months then quickly returning to Gw1, I mean this seriously is a great large...anyway, I guess pve'ers finally have their game...

I suggest that people actually read the article. as nice as the OP's post is, it doesnt have all the info and it doesnt go in depth to why they want to change certain things, and what things they wont change.

most of the hate so far seems to come from confuseion rather then from all the info

Ok after reading that little tidbit, I'm fully hyped back up for GW2. I almost felt like I should just stop playing GW since all of my accomplishmens would get left behind, but I'm loving this idea. Great way to reward people playing the original GW while still starting fresh. So now my new characters can carry on the legacy my originals left behind. Now they just need to bring over my Divine Aura

Sooooo....

Are these Charr gonna be bad guys, or are there gonna be enemy factions at all? I don't think the article stated anything about it.

The reasoning being, I don't want to be segregated from my friends because I'm playing an "evil" race and they're playing "good" races.

I guess we'll just have to wait til GW:EN, huh?

What angers me is

When I read the PC gamer article, I found towards the end there was a programmer talking about Guild Wars as a failed experiment, saying that it was only popular because it could give out content every 6 months or so. It pisses me off, because Guild Wars is such a unique game, different from many MMO's. I mean, how can a programmer of Ultima Online talk shit about GW. Frankly, he's gonna make Tabula Rising bad too ^^. That's my opinion, though. I love Guild Wars for what it is, and the difference compared to all those other MMOs we all see too often.

Oh..

GUILD WARS 2 IS GONNA ROCK. For those who say it's gonna be like "WoW', ANET is assuring us it's gonna keep what's made Guild Wars unique. I trust em.

I'm pretty sure the quote on the guru front page was a followup comment from the same person

Persistant worlds (limited instancing) and a raised level cap? I guess that means I'm done with the franchise after EN. Pity.

Reread the article... The game is basically the same with instanced maps

The only time the game will be persistent will be during special event where all players present will get the same rewards in other words, it's a way for the community to gather and share the fun... you are in no obligation to attend the events if you prefer to play solo.

What is CoH?

This place is drunk on acronyms.

Do they address higher level caps in detail, and whether or not that might contribute to a grind or elitism? I don't have the magazine. Thanks.

CoH is City of Heroes? or i may be wrong...

Ah! Thanks Boko. I've heard of that game.

Of all the arguments pro and con made regarding this issue, this is really the outstanding point in my mind. This seems to be a case of comparing "apples to oranges" so to speak.

I think I speak for a significant portion of the Guild Wars community when I say that many of us have invested not only a great deal of time, but also emotional energy into the characters we play as in the game. This is certainly not news to an MMORPG, but I feel like the focus of many of the arguments made surrounding GW2 have perhaps missed the heart of the issue.

It seems a bit difficult to compare Guild Wars to games such as Diablo II, Half-Life 2, Railroads, and other such games. There is a vast difference in the gaming community's expectations of a tradtional computer game and an MMOG. Diablo II made no claims of being an updating, perpetuating, pervasive online environment, dependant upon a company to steer its direction and ultimate lifespan. It was a game in a box - a finished product, (save patches), and noone expected it to evolve or to grow when it was purchased. Railroads wasn't predicated on having an ever-changing social component that drove its gameplay experience. Half-Life had no sense of inventory, no choices as to the protagonist's color, style, or creed, no long hours spent to finally gain the elusive machine gun.

It really boils down to two simple things: investment and expectations.

I have never, and I'd venture to say many other gamers have never invested 1000+ hours in any ONE non-MMO style game before. The time spent playing Guild Wars isn't simply time spent playing a game, it's time spent building characters that the player believes in. There is an unspoken expectation among many gamers, (myself included), that by relinquishing control of the gaming environment to the company in an MMO style game, we are gaining in return some degree of assurance that the gaming world as we know it will continue. [Note: Yes I realize GW will continue to operate, I'll clarify what I mean shortly.] What I expect out of an MMOG such as Guild Wars is quite different than what I expect out of a game like Diablo II. The investment of time in games such as were listed above is done knowing that they are a static environment - and the gamers' eyes are open to the fact that it simply "is what it is."

MMOG's age, and the do eventually end. What I really think is unfortunate is that the Guild Wars community will be split - forced to make a choice between inhabiting the old Guild Wars world where many gamers still wish to play, and moving on to a new (I'm sure very well executed and exciting) Guild Wars world that is disconnected from the old. It would be like Burning Crusade (WoW expansion) forcing gamers to choose between playing the original WoW and the new BC, but not allowing the two to be connected.

I guess the feeling I'm left with is that of a fork in the road. The GW community will have to choose between GW and GW2 (though a few will play both, I'm sure), however it seems as though there is an unnecessary internal rift being created in the community. The time and imagination invested in character creation is not something to be left behind lightly, even if the remnants are passed on through an upcoming mechanism.

Isn't it supposed to be "the competition's" job to split the game community, drawing off part of them into another gaming environment?

One final thought: Guild Wars isn't a game to be played, beaten, and ended. That's not what the community expected when buying it, it's not what we expected while playing it, and what's disappointing is not that it will gracefully age, it's that it seems it will be depopulated ahead of its time. Noone said it would go away, but what fun is there in an MMOG where the towns are empty, the parties are all NPC, and noone is around to trade, emote, appreciate armor upgrades, and enjoy celebrations with?

Hello Gaile,

I have a few questions. I will break this into segments.

First, Will we be able to transfer our mini pets over to the GW2? If not I think that is one of the points you may wish to look into. I think that the Mini Pets are one of the hardest parts to obtain and it has taken me 6 months to get the pets that I have at the moment.

Secondly, You might not able able to transfer your character. That is fine with me, I'll probably give GW2 a Whirl after I was originally upset and let it sink. I noticed your post about the Diablo 2, that's a point well taken. I'm sure that whatever you decide is going to be in the best interest. I know that if the public outcry is large enough then you'll change your minds. Have you thought about special capes or something? and will others be able to view your hall?

Thirdly, You say that A-net isn't going to ignore GW one and will support it fully. That's great, I look forward to this and will try GW2 and perhaps playing it alongside of GW. You say you'll support it, but will you keep the updates coming for GW? will you nerf the builds that make things unfair to others? do you think this will happen?

Lastly, I really feel sorry for P.R. reps. Your doing your job and taking a lot of slack(yes, even from my last post, I was upset) so I do want to apologize if My last post was upsetting or if you even read it. I hope that A-Net doesn't let down it's fans! I know that you do this as part of oyour job, but still we appreciate you coming online and answering the questions. I know I do.

P.S. Will the Frog Be in GW2? and perhaps his friend the beaver?

they havent decided on the level situation yet, just IDEAS. the game has 2 more years of work before its ready, and lot of things to still iron out.

and really, there is already elitism in this game, even with a level cap. you just ignore those people, cause not everyone is like that.

if they took out any visibal diffrence, level or rank wise there would still be people acting like elitists

I agree. We (those without the mag in our hands) are running around with half the information and jumping to conclusions to fill in the blanks. Not to mention there's at least 2 years of development to go.

PvPers vs PvErs. Welcome to conflict.

I seriously suggest you guys re-read the first post and the dev quotes under it. Gaile SPECIFICALLY addresses both the character transfer issue and the lvl cap issue. I'm still waiting for my PC Gamer to arrive but Inde's really helpful post um...really helps.

Too bad, more people can't just enjoy both. I love to GvG and HA while doing that doesn't make me dislike farming or questing.

I used to play a lot of Magic the Gathering CC. I had ALL the cards. I would go to tournaments and do well, and even win. Then one day I went to a tournament with a deck/build that was currently the flavour of the month and won. I faced opponents who had very similar decks, the only difference being that I possessed all the power cards. My wins were NOT due to my skill at deck construction or play, rather I had been lucky enough to get in early and get all the power cards. My concern is that GW2 will reward playing time over skill, or as someone already pointed out Grind Wars 2, coming 2008. My second concern is that I have several different types of Characters, and to keep up peeps will not be able to do this, for better or worse they will have to invest all there time in one character. I will try GW2, but if it turns out to be more like WoW than GW1, which based upon the information we have now seems likely, I will have to find a new game.

No offense, but reread it yourself:

That's not "special events" it's large, non-instanced areas that impact the game world as a whole. It sounds, from what Gaile says here, like a substantive part of the game experience. GW2 is pretty clearly going to be a mix of instancing and non-instancing.

That will make all the people that want free WoW very happy, no doubt, but instancing is the only reason I play GW. It's the only online-only game I can put up with for that very reason, and making persistent-areas a major part of game play is the end of my interest in the franchise as a result. Honestly I may be done with online games anyway, I'm sick of sitting around and waiting for the change that renders the game I spent $40 on unplayable. It was an interesting experiment while it lasted, but if this news about GW2 is accurate it's going to make the decision easy for me.

GW2 = WoW PvE + GW PvP?

ZOMGHAX!!!11

Sign me up, best game ever?

Thanks. I only asked about the level caps because it seems to me that that's what most people are concerned with. You mentioned that most of the hate (higher level caps, it seems to me) seems to stem from confusion and that the magazine contained depth not in the original post.

Thanks again.

EDIT: I realize that elitism already exists, but higher level caps has the potential to compound the problem and contribute to grind.

D2, starcraft, Railroad tycoon, etc..were not MMOGs that touted new chapters every 6 months.
You guys told us the reason GW didn't have the other things other games had was because GW wasn't those games. Now you are comparing GW to those other games?

I and most of everyone was cool when sorrows came out, and then factions. Factions had issues but it was fun.
I spent tireless hours buying and being the first to get the pre orders. I remember getting all of the prophecies pre orders before the game even came out.

Yet now all of that will be regulated to what is a trophy case in the new game. What about my divine aura and back up dancers and disco ball now? Can the CE editions at least keep those? If we purchase a CE of GW2? I am excited for a new chapter/ version of the game. But I thought Anet would have released a version of the game to fill in the blank areas of the map, and allow us to play as the charr for example.(Chapter 2 being the other races for example, and each new chapter would have been new races, filling in the blank areas of land on the existing chapters.)

I am not upset at a new game or expansion, i would like to keep what I have been preaching to my friends and even persuaded most to leave WOW or Asherons call to come to GW.

Anet look at Asherons call 2 and its gone, with AC1 still going strong. (As strong as it can I guess)

I'll do my best to explain what I'm trying to say but your taking it out of context so I'll try this:
- I said that Guild Wars wasn't as unique and original as some people made it out to be.
- You replied saying that the balance and teamwork made it unique.
- However you were comparing it to other MMO's while I was comparing it to other games. Balance and teamwork is not unique to Guild Wars, I likened Guild Wars to other games such as CS and BF because of the level of tactics and skill involved. Just because there isn't another MMO with that style of gameplay doesn't mean Guild Wars is unique. I'm not saying the actual mechanics of the game are the same, what I'm saying is when the goal is to eliminate the other team what difference is it if your holding a gun or casting a spell. Hence that level of teamwork isn't unique to Guild Wars.

I'm not trying to be patronizing and I hope that helps explain what I was trying to say in the context of my original point.

Oh will we get a title when we send over of bits and bobs along the lines of "Bloodline of so and so" "Heir of so and so", that would be nice

Gaile

i got a question about leveling up and wut not it might have been answered bu ti dont feel like reading 56 pages of posts lol anyway

lets say my warrior has 3 million expierence and i buy the new guildwars when it comes out and i use my warrior with pve there will he get the levels that you would normally get in the new guildwars? since your going to raise the lvl cap, because i really dont want to have to get 3 million expierence again when the new guild wars come out just to lvl up when i got 3 million from playing in the past guildwars

sorry posted twice

The comparison between games like RRT and HL2 is, as stated earlier, an apples and oranges comparison. I have played many games - First person shooters, real time strategy, flight sims, and RPG's. The difference between the vast majority of those games and GW is what we see as the return on our investment. Half-Life was a first person action oriented game that told a story that came to an end - your investment was small (less than 40 hours), and the return was reasonable (seeing what happens at the end). With RTSs and other "Building" games, the return on your investment is seeing what you construct at the end, and in some cases rampaging through your enemies base in a blazing finale. If GuildWars gave everyone access to the same weapons, armor, skills, and general play experience from start to finish, I could see scratching the GW1 series and moving to a GW2 series. The fact of the matter is that it dosent - GW's play style negates this sense of a Finale` - especially when you offer "prestige" armors that take weeks or months to work toward. I have spent over a thousand hours building and improving my charecters, and now you are telling me it means nothing in the future. Here is a game analogy: Counter-Strike. What killed it in most hard core CSers minds was changing the game that took a high amount of expertise and practice (1.6) to a game where anybody with a mouse and a keyboard could spray down half the other team (CS:S). The investment was made irrelivent by moving from 1.6 to CS:S, and GW will suffer a similar fate from the perspective of many PvE players, myself included.

You don't need to read 56 Pages, just read the first post. Also, its hard to understand what you are even trying to ask.

No offense taken. I've reread it. And from what i can understand is that the missions are still going to be instanced but part of the game is going to be persistent e.g map travelling between outposts like from LA to Beetletun.

And during these presistent areas, special events will occur but you are not forced to participate. You can just go from point A to B, ignoring everyone and get on with your game. But, if you are talking about quests, i do share your concerns (not like i really cared about quests in GW1 though).

Correct me if i'm wrong...

Thoughtful post Terrance, well said.

I finally get what you were trying to say, and view from this point, i have to admit that you do have some valid points actually.

lol this sucks unless they reveal screenshots before March 27th I will not get to see anything until August, I don't have PC Gamer and I leave for Basic next Tuesday :S

Ah well just more for me to come home to, that'll be right up there with my wife (she's going to kill me for saying that)