[Dev Update] Razah, Questing, & You

This is nice I guess, a Rit hero would be cool, but frankly he would sit right next to Goren, Zenmai, and other heros that I never use.

Well to all of you who feel like you are losing money since you all bought gemstones for razah, you did, as soon as you bought the gemstones. You knew you would too, but fortunately you all know it was a price you were willing to pay gladly! I've been earning them (albeit far more slowly) and having fun learning to meet the challenges of the elite areas. I may have been able to sell the gems I've used for more earlier, but since they were all drops or trade ups OF drops, they all are pure profit.

GG Anet for making Razah more accessible, but dont you think that this WILL ruin the elite area's economy? That economy established by folks who wanted the Razah Hero and either couldn't/didn't want to invest the time to get the stones themselves....
This announcement takes a big chunk out of the motivation for folks to play the mission (that being greed ). Which is very sad, because after having played through it a few times, I've come to enjoy the area. It's too bad it might turn into another desolate wasteland. Perhaps if there was a more reasonable return for gambling (coffers) or a lower cost for armbraces yet again. Of course now that I think about it, IF the prices of gemstones *do* drop, then the armbrace price is technically lower... so nvm that one ;P

Oh, man, Razah RULES setup as a MM ;>

all are glad but roughly im NOT!

i got my razah only with heroes and hench so first: IT AINT THAT HARD!!!!

second: due to the fact that not many people were able to get him... razah became a symbol of leetness! its just like making tormented weapons a normal loot for christ sake!!!

i maybe exaggerating but i feel insulted that something i worked hard for wud be ruined just like that!!!


here's my suggestion:

how about giving razah an additional name like "razah the wise" for those who attained him the hard way???? at least the leetnes remains -.-"

Hero unlocks are not per account. It costs 10 of each gem to make him available for each profession.

So I saw dev update, and I got PUMPED.

Finally, I thought, they were fixing soul reaping. OR! perhaps the jade isle fix was going to go live. Perhaps there was an upcoming balance change being announced now that the celestial tournament is almost over.

Instead, I can now get a ritualist hero more readily.

thanks?

I don't think you'll have any complaints on this one! GG!

I would be quite interested as to how you accomplished this as hench are not available in the DoA so kinda hard to hench those gemstones.

So it is an easiy to obtain hard to get symbol of leetness? I suppose this is pretty much the same thing as henching in the DoA? You need to pick one and stay with it - hard or easy?

I could purchase the stones, I have more than enough gold, but there are many who play the game that do not and probably will not. I generally didn't feel he was worth the gold but had I been able to hench I most likely would have gotten enough gemstones by now and had him. Hopefully the new quests will be henchable (or at least allow me to use the henchman and try to figure out a way to do it instead of just making them unavailable) - I mean lets face it it would still fit their description if his quest required you to beat Mallyx first (I think they *do* mean they made it easier, but we still do not know how much easier).

Thank you for listening to the players Gaile.I know I appreciate it.

I'd think that people getting coffers and saving towards armbraces far outweighed the number of people buying gems to get Razah so the impact of gems from refunds will likely be minimal. The pople I know with Razah will probably just go for a coffer for a chance at a Mallyx mini rather than sell the gems anyways.

nah, people will find a reson to complain about anything, and if you read, sadly there are people complaining.


On topic: I told my alliance yesterday right after i go razah that they would probably make him easier after i finally got him. Normally, i would be pissed off right now. Not because other people can get him now, I dont care about leetness, i just wanted a rit hero.

No I would have been pissed because i had already used my gemstones. but since they are refunding me, its all cool. Because now i have razah AND can waste some gems on a coffer.

since the quest to get Razah starts from gate of abaddon, wenches(er sorry, henches) are available...


Hope yer right my friend... but its all relative as far as prices go, more worried about fewer people there I guess.

Most people I know play 3-4 characters. And only one is their main. I know for one I only got him on my main. For I hardly play my other 4. But if some people want to have him on all "10" characters, then they should have to pay for him as we all did. Anet doesn't force you to play 10 characters, therefore they shouldn't have to bend over to your bitching.

"Oh noes, I play so many characters that I can't have the Rit hero on all of them. Anet should treat me differently because I play every class."

sry not to have made it clear but what i meant was i hero henched the dungeon where razah was - not DOA due to the fact that uhm.... there are no henchies in DOA?

who said that i purchased the gemstones? i cant remember to have written them...

ah well it doesnt matter anymore... it not as if i cud redo anet's decision

agreed with The Bloodrose on the fact that you shouldn't have him on 10 characters (and if you have enough time to play 10 characters through Nightfall and having no main... Wow, just wow.).

I have 3 main characters, they are my Tyria born Monk, War, and Necro and I have Razah on my monk only. I realize that most people have different playing styles, but if you play 10 characters and really want him on all of them you should have to earn each one. I hardly consider only completing NF (as you normally would, if you had 10main characters) enough work.

Anet completely ignoring PvP makes me want to:

And thats why we are in this position in the first place. People bitched he was too hard to get, yet people still kept getting him. So anet gave into the complaints that he was too hard to get. And now we know anet gives it to players bitching and crying.

I still say the players that had already gotten him(weither they payed or farmed the gemstones) should have their Razah updated in some way. Different armor, different title. Something to show the effort and time some people went through to get him. I could care less about the gem refund. The gems I spent are worth less then what I paid now anyways.

Perhaps you should read your own post and then say who is "bitching" - if you choose to experience a small fraction of the game, thats your choice. The fact is that if there are 10 primary classes (and for the record I don't know anyone that has less that 8 characters) each of which requires a set of gemstones.

Anet has seen the error in their original decision and have reverted it - hence the rejoicing.

no i was refering to the fact that no matter what anet does some one will complain about it. most of it had to do with the fact that doing DoA isnt all that compelling. im sure more people would have him if doa had better benifits.

I really dont think he should be hard to get since he is the only rt hero.

unlike you, I dont care about the leetness of things. I got fissure cause i liked the look, not cause it was hard. And i got razah cause i wanted a rit, not becaue it was hard to do.

sweet! been wanting razah for a long time but wasn't about to pay or farm for a hero. not that i don't have the money, its just the principle of the matter - all the other heroes are quest rewards, and razah should be no different. if he were special in some way, i'd pay...but he's not, he's just a plain old ritualist.

those who are angry about the price drop of gems...you can't blame anet for that, as players dictate the price of rare items. they are giving you a 100% refund, in gem form. if you bought them gems, that's your problem. the price drop was a natural occurence as more people finish NF every day and more people go to DoA, thus more gems are available and thus they become cheaper. that's not a bad thing. and spending 100k on a hero doesn't make you 1337.

what about this:

many people complain that tormented weapons are hard to get just like razah -.-" would anet make those items random loots in DOA

i guess not!

except those are just rarer skins, you can obtain diffrent looking equivilants.

YOU CANNNOT however obtain a rit besaids razah. which is why he is being made easier

Eh, a free coffer. Guess its nice. Don't care either way, could have made money selling the gems rather than keeping them for Razah, but its only plat. Maybe I can get a mallyx with this coffer or a torment weapon. And as for making things easier, well they did make ambraces cheaper. I'll probably get the sword, just for the collection. But for general use, my fellblades are my precious

As for getting Razah, its easy, even with hero/henches. If you could manage to get the gems (well, get them rather then buying off someone else) you could do the razah quest with one arm tied behind your back. While chatting to your guild, and admiring the torment landscape. The only trick to it is that you don't leeroy the first group of like 4 torment mobs right at the start. And if you're in a guildgroup, you could probably do that and still beat them down anyway.

As for his usefulness? I wouldn't bother getting him for all my pve chars. I got him for my main, just for the sake of completeness, but really? General prot? Tahlkora. And Dunkoro bonding is far superior to anything I've figured out with Razah. And he does alright as a minion bomber with boon of creation etc, but really? As an MM, Olias would leave him in the dust.

Rits got some really good weapon spells and other skills, but most rely on synergy with other skills, are conditional or need correct targeting to get max effect. And I haven't seen Razah do that. I mean, with a human rit? Can you imagine the carnage with even just splinter weapon with a barrager/hundred blades/triple chop? He seems to put it on your monk as often as your AoE attackers. And thats just the one spell. He could make a good restoration rit (cause that doesn't really need complex targeting decisions), but why waste a hero slot for healing when the hench monks can do just as well. And leave that hero slot open for an orders necro/SF spammer/barrager/secondary MM/thumper etc. Of course, if you got a good damage build please feel free to post and I'll gladly try it.

sweet,

And I almost paid for the gemstones, luckily i saved my hardearned cash.

The reason why Razah cost 4 gems in the first place was because he was supposed to be a variable hero. One that you could change the primary class on at any time. But anet backstepped on that for whatever god known reason.

All I am pissed about is the first real accomplishment I've had in months from this game, and anet went and snagged it away.

The players who did gain Razah by the gemsets should really get more back than just their gems, cause the gem prices will fall even harder and only be worth something to die-hard gamblers or torment collectors, or you will just waste them on a coffers that has a slim chance of giving you something you might want.
There's obviously going to be rit heros in GW:en so I guess Anet decided to do this before razah wasnt even needed and to please the masses, leaving the ones who didnt moan out.

This is great! Yeah I have 10 characters, and my "main" switches between 6 of them - and there was no way I was going to pay that much for a rit hero for them all.

Yeah, I mean, imagine if max swords with perfect stats actually dropped as normal loot... oh wait they do. Tormented weapons are just a skin. Razah would be a skin if there was another rit hero, but there isn't. All other "leet" items in gw (fow armor, mini mallyx, whatever) are just a skin. And anet should keep it that way.

And if you feel you lost money buying razah... well you lost it when you got him. You can't lose money you already gave away. I think anet is being very generous in refunding the gems.

Think about it: imagine they weren't making this change. You would have still "lost" that money... because people now can buy razah cheaper. You could have waited. No one forced you to buy him so early, when it was clear the price of gems was always falling. You made the decision to pay the higher price to get him earlier, and that's all it is.

The same thing happens when new weapons come on the market. Or remember how much minipets went for at first? I know I've bought things for high amounts in the past that are now virtually worthless, and I don't feel that I "lost" money. I got what I paid for, and I knew that if I waited it would get cheaper, but I made the decision to buy it then.

You do realize they spent the whole month of February on HA right? Fixing it?

So, because they are making an update that doesn't affect PvP, they don't care about it? When they spent the entire previous month on that subject?

Then I guess we can all be grateful that it is Anet and not you who makes these decisions.

I mean, seriously, what's so special about the ritualist hero that it needs to be so expensive or require such a time investment running the DoA to get? What is the value of making him that much harder to get?

I think the first group who don't like the change is because "Razah" is one of their game accomplishments. Changing "Finding a Purpose" is de-valuing their accomplishments whichever way to look at it.
On the other hand, what the second group really after is just a generic "ritualist hero" who is acquirable in a comparable effort/difficulty as other heros like Morgahn and co. (The game does not provide any other ritualist hero ).

I propose an alternative...

1. Keep "Razah" and the existing "Finding a Purpose" to get this "Razah" the same. Finish this quest get you the real "Razah" directly.

2. Have a place holder hero called "Lesser Razah" or dub him "Lazah", "Lezah" or something everyone know is a fake.
3. Add a "Get Lesser Razah" quest involves a comparable storyline unlocked place (say Nightfallen Garden).
4. To UPGRADE this fake called "Lesser Razah" into the real "Razah", must do the original "Finding a Purpose" quest.

In short, those who aleady got "Razah" via the original way, continue to keep their "Razah" as symbol for their accomplishment.
Those who simply want a "ritualist hero" to beat missions together with can use this generic ritualist hero called "Lesser Razah". It is a "ritualist hero" and that's all they care.
But if one day they want to show off, they'll have to beat "Finding a Purpose" in order to unlock the real "Razah" like whoever did it the original way.

Hopefully it can satistify both groups?

PS. Nightfallen Garden is just an example. It is after Morgahn and at around 2/3 of the game so there are still a few missions left to allow this "Lesser Razah" to be deployed.

As someone who got Razah the old way, I say RIGHT ON! This was a very elegant and thoughtful way to improve things for everyone. Thanks guys!

Well ... I'm in the middle. I for one am glad that I'll be getting my gem set back when this update kicks in-- it's just one step closer to getting a Tormented weapon. In addition, I can finally get Razah for my other characters now without the hassle of getting the gemstones.

Now I'll admit: I did pay 90-something plat to get Razah, but back then, I was a newbie Ele with almost no experience with these high-end areas such as the Domain of Anguish and the two Elite Missions in Factions. All I knew was that I tried it with a bunch of unorganized PUGs and got my butt handed over the minute we walked in. What made me interested in the Ritualist hero, however, was that I happened to see how Ritualists play when doing some Random Arenas and thought they were pretty cool, which in turn peaked my interest on the Ritualist hero.

Anyway, after sticking around with an organized group for the last couple weeks (as well as being acquainted in their own TS server), the Elite Missions no longer bother me anymore, especially DoA. I'm not worried about the money I spent on the gems as I already learned how to earn those gems back as opposed to buying them again. Though the gems are a bit more cheaper than before, I personally value the gems over the money that someone could spend on those gems because these ones, after I got Razah, were something I actually worked for. I see them as "trophies" in a certain sense.

Now whoever mentioned the quest reward for beating the Mallyx The Unyielding quest ... remember that you also have to do various sub-quests in each of the four sections. I'll total up the XP just to show there's more than just a measly 30k of XP:

City:
* The City of Torc'qua :: 10,000 XP
Veil:
* Breaching the Stygian Veil :: 10,000 XP
* Brood Wars :: 10,000 XP
Gloom:
* To the Rescue! :: 10,000 XP
* The Rifts Between Us :: 10,000 XP
* Deathbringer Company :: 10,000 XP
Foundry:
* The Foundry of Failed Creations :: 10,000 XP
* Foundry Breakout :: 10,000 XP
Mallyx The Unyielding:
* 30,000 XP
* Margonite Gemstone
* Stygian Gemstone
* Titan Gemstone
* Torment Gemstone

So not only you get 30k XP and gemstones from the final quest reward, you also get 80k XP more from the sub-quests. About 20k shy of all the XP you would get if you do all the Titan Quests but at least you get some Gemstones, nifty upgrades for your heroes, and interesting Greens while you're at it.

I know that last bit probably wouldn't benefit those looking to progress their Survivor titles (since constant Rebirthing-through-gates is a key to finishing the Foundry), but I think it's worth mentioning for those still looking for a challenge in comparison to the Canthan Elite Missions, and Titan Quests in Prophecies.

Anyway ... back to the point: I think everyone could use a Ritualist hero. He's the only one for Pete's sake! Might as well experiment with he can do. Personally, I find him to be a great spiker so I'll leave him at that while I do all the spirit spamming. However, I have yet to try out a Rit MM build on him ... can't go wrong with 3 MM's in the party (assuming there are excessive amounts of corpses to exploit).

I can't understand the superficial mentality of those who are screaming "OMG my Razah is now worthless becuz others can get him too!~!!!!" What the hell does it matter if others can get him now? Was he really supposed to be some symbol of your "leetness?" He can't even be displayed publicly. Only you and anyone who happen to be in your team could even know that you have Razah.

I have Razah already. I'm glad that others can get him easiery now. I'm glad that I'll get my gems back. I'm glad that I now have more incentive to get him for my other characters. Razah's worth hasnt changed just because others have him. It's just plain ridiculous to think it has, he doesnt suddenly stop working just because everyone has one.

Money back Guarantee! I love it!


Anyway, gj Anet. I knew it would come to this eventually, which is why I waited to get him. Yay!

Then it is *not* simple to hench getting Razah - if it were then my Dervish would have had him ages ago. The quest *requires* gemstones that you either must get through playing a non-henchable area or trade something for (gold or items). You picked the easiest part of the quest and compared it to the whole, the *hardest* part dictates how hard the quest is to complete.

As far as I can see, no one said you did, I didn't see say anything about how you got yours. If you are referring to my statement about purchasing the gemstones, that was my personal feelings - I generally feel that purchasing things like titles or the gemstones for Razah as kinda cheating. No problem if someone else does it, but *personally* if I can not get the item my self I do not want it.

As I have said since the official announcement about his status - Razah as a variable profession is well worth the expense and time. I would have bit the bullet and payed the gold for him. Razah as a second ritualist is OK as a "prestige" acquirement (would not have payed for him), similar to prestige armors. But, as is, there either needs to be a ritualist that anyone can get or Razah made where anyone can. Currently it is akin to having a special armor at the end of the elite areas that is an extra 10 armor (still unlock-able in PvP but the only way a PvE character can get it) - not game breaking in the least but it still violates several of their basic principles.

Personally I would have added another ritualist hero somewhere and left Razah as is, however I'm quite happy they are making a ritualist hero easy enough that we all should be able to get him and surprised (and quite pleased) that they have the "money back guarantee". Be happy you got him when it was hard and apparently did it the "real" way, few - if any - even currently see having him as such. Most either do not know what it means or know it is too easy to farm or purchase gold, prestige things almost must be for personal enjoyment (and take that from someone who has many prestige items/armors/titles - I get all mine "the hard way" and do so for personal reasons). It's cost pales in comparison to Vabbian, let alone FoW that it is pretty low on the whole prestige hierarchy.

Good update. I may actually get Razah for my characters now.

You're probably the type that also believes that FoW armor should not be the only max armor in the game, or that cool skin weapons should not be the only max damage weapons in the game, or that farming the same area over and over till your brain and fingers are numb is not an indication of skill and leetness, or that someone who brings Razah along in your party with a crappy build just to show him off is a scrub, or that what's good for the majority is good for the game.

* Sigh * Players like you just make me want to

Well done Anet...this was the best way to handle the Razah issue, it SHOULD have satisfied everybody...

Although, as we are talking about human nature this won't be (and as you can see by this thread, hasn't been) the case...people just like to complain.

Awesome! love this one!

nice update looking forward to it

Very nice stuff. Can't wait to get Razah .

The "Money Back Guarantee" quest is also an excellent idea for those who have already got Razah and want their gems back.