[Dev Update] Farming and Loot Scaling

Before you had to kill 20 trolls for 1K
Now you have to kill 160 monsters for that same 1K (20*8)

How is it repetitive? You do the math Questing isn't as profitable at all. Doing all missions and LOADS of quests 16 times, only netted me about 300K. It of course would be more, but I also had to buy 16 1,5K armors, over a 25 weapons for my characters, about 480 perfect weapons for my heroes, runes, over a 128 skills... In other words, the basic needed stuff.

It's true, you don;t HAVE to clear the whole area, but if you don't kill lotsa monsters, you don't get lotsa cash either. The lack of rewards causes farmers WANT to farm, and it causes casual gamers NEED to farm.

Extra rewards for team play would've been a very good idea. If being in a team would be more rewarding than solo farming, then everyone would just team up. At this moment, non of the 2 is rewarding. I've vanquished about 4 areas now, and I've yet to see a good drop. (non- max damage golds with as the only stat 'Highly Salvagable' is NOT my idea of a good drop, btw)

Nobody needs to keep up with the expert farmers, nobody forces you to. Nobody needs luxury, either. If you want it for the skin, then check the wikipedia site for pictures of greens. If you want a Crystalline Sword, then you're out of luck, because even most expert hardcore farmers can't afford these.

They just killed farming, not the need for farming. If there were keyless chests again, skills that could be trade in for skillpoints only, and free max damage weapons for heroes, the need for farming would decrease DRASTICALLY.

How is hard mode the farmer's wish? I never wished for getting killed by 1 Hand of Torment. I never wished for monsters that one-hit-KO me, either. That wouldn't be much of a problem alone, but hard mode somehow does not inspire me to take my 16 characters through the whole storyline AGAIN.

Farmers farmed out of boredom, so with the cash, they could do chest runs, buy new skills and titles etc. It's not the farming, it's the reward.

I'm one of those casual farming people. I started playing the game around october 2005, when money sinks, keys for chests, 1k skills and drop rate nerf where already in place, so I really never had the chance to get rich quickly like the first 3-months-after-release players did. The first time I farmed was around droknar's forge, and that was because I had no money to buy the basic 1.5k armor. I did not rush through the game, played every mission and did every quest, played always with max people permitted by the map. That was, and is still the problem with the game: playing it the "regular" way won't guarantee you the cash to buy basic stuff, like maxed armor, and most importantly skills. I'm not talking about 15k armor or other luxuries, I'm talking about really basic stuff. So as I said I relied on farming to buy runes, skills, and after that insignas and other stuff for my heroes. I didn't like farming, it was boring after a couple of runs, but since it was the only way to get some money I did it.

Every change arenanet made to the pve environment to stop botting was, in my opinion, ineffective and detrimental for the gameplay. Making enemies scatter from aoe damage over time didn't make the game more challenging, it made it slower, boring and actually easier for casters, since they could bring a cheap aoeot skill as a life saver.

About this last change, loot scaling with party size, this one is probably the better and more effective anet made to the game system so far, regarding how to stop bot activity. But the problem remains, the loot for parties is ridicolously low. In the current state of the game, all the money sinks introduced to reduce the amount of currency in the game remain, but the there is no more way for the casual or semi casual player to get some money to buy stuff. The only viable type of farming that remains is ecto farming, since the drop rate of gold items or green is still so low. About hard mode, I didn't find the loot to be adequate to the challenge; after clearing the whole sulfurous wastes, i got stuff for about 5k, no golds, 1 standard skill tome, and that was for a 1.5 hour cleaning of an area full of 26+ level foes (more than 250).

So here are my suggestions:
1) increase both quantity and quality of loot for parties, like 2x the current values for normal and 4x for hard mode, and make it decrease exponentially, so the loot for soloers remains the same that it is now.
2) remove the money requirement for skills: it's both detrimental to the game play since it punishes diversity and contrary to the philosophy of the game for the same reason; this kind of money sink is really not needed
3) give players better rewards for questing and missions (like 5k for master level, not 500g), so players are encouraged to play the game if they want to get money
4) make elite areas accessible only to characters that completed the campaign (uw and fow for any, urgoz and deep for faction, sf for prophecies) like doa is: this will revitalize high end areas, giving people better chances to find groups.

In my opinion, as the game is now the new or casual player is bound to poverty. Instead of twisting the gameplay to counter bots and soloers inflating the economy, why not remove the need for farming, at least for normal stuff?

No, you are completely missing my point. This is a game. A game is (and should be) designed to be fun, not tedious, nor should it be considered work. Again, if farming is what you consider fun, guess what, you can still farm, thus your fun isn't "nerfed" in the least.

Look, if you want to compare this to real life, you need to look at the rewards, not the example itself. In real life, the reward is money, which measures your success and sustains yours and your family's well being. In a game, the reward, and likewise the objective is ultimately fun. People play games to entertain themselves, occupy spare time, challenge themselves, etc, all with the end goal of simple, unadulterated, fun.

Anet seems to be trying to cater to this [for some reason] un heard-of factor, the "fun" game. They are trying to make sure that everyone can acquire everything reasonably, by simply playing the game and having fun. They are also trying to make sure that everyone's idea of fun is not hindered in any way.

Now onto the virtual income aspect:

It's a very good possibility, and I'm conceeding that this may be fact, that no, you cannot make nearly as much money solo farming now as you used to, and that simply adventuring in Hard Mode with a group will not net you as much as solo farming used to, either. However, it is very likely that now both groups of people, the solo farmer, and the Hard Mode quester/adventurer, can make equivalent amounts of money in the same timeframe. If this is the case, I have no problems with it. However, this possibly being the case, seems to be the biggest bone of contention.

Here's a question for you: Are you simply upset about this change because, and only because you're now getting less money when farming? Is that all there is to it? If so, consider this: You have a set amount of income you consider "acceptable" when you farm. This amount was only derived from set parameters that were given by the devs, ie. droprates, and mob configurations. You could use this complaint of less loot to prove the reverse, that there was never enough loot, and there should be more. 12k/hr could easily be seen as waaaay too low, despite the "work" involved, and a request by the farming community to raise that income to 10x the amount could be just as reasonable, if, and only if, this nerf is also reasonable.

My point is, this pre-defined farming income, which was although coded by Anet, really created by the community, is the only thing taking a hit by this update. Everything else, including how the income is farmed (AI downgrade), other means of income (Hard Mode), and even access to otherwise semi-locked income (FoW/UW & Elite Areas scrolls), got a big boost - which is why I said this update was the answer to every farmer's wish, but only if the end goal of the farmer was the reward, as reetkever claims.

Though, I disagree, with that last statement. It seems that with most "dedicated" farmers, the end goal is the hours upon hours of mindless grind, only to be able to tell everyone "Hey, I grinded mindlessly for hours upon hours!", then go back and do it some more. Perhaps the dedicated farmer is just a work-a-holic, who only plays games when they can work on them.

Then what's the deal with obsidian armour, and titles such as drunkard or treasure hunter..? As it stands with the past "inflation" these required a lot of farming to afford (unless you played for an insane amount of time in a group), and now they will be even harder to get..?

Also still no comment on the concerns people have raised about bots throughout this thread...? i.e. why measures aren't being taken specifically to target bots rather than affecting the community as a whole with an update, and why we still see dozens of them in certain places.

NP but to let u know If this is not sorted i will not be obtaining eye of the north and guildwars two as i planned and will also be leaving the building for good evan though i had invested in the other 3 campains and all time i spent playing the over the yrs!! the fun has now gone. the loot scaling does not work how u say it does.. I've wasted 15k in uw runs over past 24hrs and received zip for my time and effort,and im not the only one. lots of my friends and ppl in town talking same way, you feel hurt from ppl flaming you/Anet? sit back and think why they are they flamming you/Anet!! this is not a problem that is not going to just fade out with sugar coating and time!!!simply stop hurting the honest paying player and invest in anti cheat coding!!! also why not take a note from EPIC who forced hosting sites of cheat softwear to close with threats of big law suits,worked very nice for them.

The farmers nerf changed something fundamental.
Farmers are part of the hard core of GW.
Killing farming send a message to all players, you dont own the game Anet does. This message passes on like a fire and will burn the heart of dedicated player. If Anet can, casually, eliminate such an important part of the game comunity, they can and will do anything. Therefore the whole player community feels cheated and betrayed.
disclaimer: I'm not a farmer, altough I used it to get sigs to unlock elite skills.

You can post your opinions and discuss the effects of the nerf with Gaile, but resorting to name calling is uncalled for. If you have to resort to that then I am sorry that even if ,suppose that I agree with what you said before that phrase, I and many people would be less inclined to try and see your point, since you lose credibility in my view by resorting to a cheap shot, and is COMPLETELY UNCALLED for. Afterall, Gaile could have ignored the rants completely, but she chose to listen and discuss with us. So, treat her with respect plz even if your point of view differs.

She is doing all she can for the players, and all she get is insult like "lapdog"? You..Sir/Madam is an inconsiderate prick (I would use bigger words, but I am unfortunately sure that it will get deleted, so I will have to settle for that one.)

You have to realise that it is the Devs that makes the decision. She, Gaile Gray, is only there to relay information. She can only get information for us (and information that she is not suppose or the devs did not intend to give at first if i may add). She has no decision in what the devs decides, she can only relay our feelings, so (bring input in the discussion, but) keep your insults for yourself! She is doing exactly what is expected of her, if not more than was required!

ps. I dun't think that you would like to be called a lapdog either...

High end PvE content in GuildWars always sucked.

Playing time and again the same chapters gets boring.

Its a pain to have to bring my mesmer from elona to Perdition rock to capture signet of midnight.

It seems anet find it too, since they 1) Introduced skill tomes; 2) cancelled more chapters for gw.

Titles is the same griding experience than farming.

Getting a protector title is the same as farming to buy an obsidian armor or being able to get (either by dropping or trading for it) that perfect rare skin weapon you wish.

They introduced a few more titles, to force people to go hardmode and revisit areas ppl wouldnt go anymore.

Once the ppl acquire the new titles, they wont retun to those areas the same.

In Pve im/was currently working on 2 objectives: Getting an obsidian armor for my monk and making a legendary survivor of my ele.

Both require farming. A legendary survivor requires good armor soon, stuff like at least a major vit run and some good weapons/shields/off-hands with +30hp/+armor help alot.

Money for skills helps it alot.

I have to say farming bots never were a concern for me, cause I never need them or to get stuff from them.

Now they are making an impact on my game, because the powers that would be decided that the best way to deal with them is making gameplay changes.

Threats. TT. I dont see any Threats.

Its just people expressing their opinions.

Ofcourse each time a change is made people will complain and some will actually have enough of it and call it a day.

But changes like AoE and Soul reaping, are mechanics changes.

This a change on the game philosophy.

Its like after one guy spent 100 hours wall hugging to get its pathfinder title, they removed it.

Or like you logged one day and random arenas werent there anymore.

If you dont want farm, make partie play more rewarding, because its not. Farming may be boring, but at least you see the rewards. When you play in a team, waste 2 hours on it, and the 3 gold drops and the 2 rare material items go to other partie members, you see no reward, only frustation, even though, once in a while you will be the one lucky. But the point of solo farming, was that you always would be the lucky one.


In a way Anet is lucky theres no monthly fee (wich I admit was an Ace that made pursuit GuildWars instead of WoW, since I never had played a MMoRPG, and didnt knew if the style of the game was what I wanted, since I was mostly a RTS gamer), because the things you perceive as a threat would be much more visible with a subscription cancel, than with a future no buy of GWEN.

I agree with this. I didn't expect every other monster to drop gold items, but I found that the drop rate was worse than normal mode. I've spent about 6 hours in hard mode since it was released, and I'm not sure I've even found a single gold from a monster, maybe 1. Plenty of purples, but as we all know, they're worth only what you can merch them for. I still have yet to find a tome from a monster, in fact I've been asking my guild for verification if they do indeed drop. The only one I've found is from a locked chest. No, I'm not whining, I'm just echoing the suggestion that if the monsters are harder, it doesn't make alot of sense that the golds seem to drop less.

With all due respect to frustrated persons in this forum, i think that this update is just fine. I was dualing UW today, first on hard.... 1 ecto droped, we got killed, started again on normal, did whole UW and got 5 ecto. I think thats the way it should be. And now people can finaly leave alone that poor trolls, vermin and Zelnehlun Fastoot ( btw i can't beleave that he isnt nerfed yet, since now even that NPC kids in Kamadan know how to glitch-farm him) Now people will have to put more effort and show more skill if they want money. But it doesnt take more time, as some of you complain. It does take more time if you are gonna kill mobs for stupid merchant food items. But if you want to REALY make money, you can, just like before. Every profession can farm UW or FoW, and they aren't nerfed, you still get ecto/shards as before... GG Anet, put end to bots, noobs, and ppl with no skill that want gold as it is somehow granted to them. Just put in an auction house and we all will be happy x 10

The gold doesn't drop less, it's just your heroes/henchies (or imaginary companions, if you're playing with less than 8) taking the drops Be happy for em will ye? :P

Well, I'm big enough (just barely hehe) to apologize to Gaile for my comments. I can't speak for others, but I will say the constant condescension and the "we know better" attitude is what set me off.

But I realize that GW is ANet's game, not ours, and they can do what they want with it. That being said, they would be wise to listen to the players who made their 3 million sales figure, but what do I know?

Anyways, my non-moaning thoughts on how to improve the system:

1. Botting. Its the main reason seemingly for these nerfs, and as many have pointed out, the nerfs only serve to make botting MORE attractive and lucrative than previously. A simple solution is two fold, restore the loot tables to pre-nerf, then scale UP by double or triple the drops for full 8 person parties. This way, the solo and small team farmers are happy, and casual players who hate farming see a two or threefold increase in wealth, making expensive stuff more in reach and less reason to ebay gold. A third option would be to introduce an entry system similar to the Doppleganger in Ascension for known [edit] botting areas.

This would be in line with ANet's non-anti-farming policy, and make everybody happy.

2. Auction house/interface. Very simply create a window similar to Party Search that has options similar to GWGuru's auction listing system. SO a player who wants to sell a Dead Sword of Enchanting can list it in appropriate categories through the in-game window, then "post" it for view by other players. Prospective buyers can look through the window, sorting by various categories, and once found, can whisper the seller and negotiations can begin. Keeps WTS spam out of chat, once people see how efficient it is, and from what I've seen of the interface, all that is needed is already there.

3. Expanded token system. The reason to farm was to amass enough wealth to purchase rare skins, both armor and weapons. If ANet wants to encourage party play and mission/questing, then why not give tokens similar to the amulet of the mists or book of secrets to players who acheive, say a Protector title? Or other titles deemed appropriate. They could then trade in this token for a piece of armor of their choosing. I've always thought it highly hypocritical that to get 5k armor, you need 32 jewels, only 3 of which you can acquire through questing (via trade contracts) and that's IF you complete every single quest in the Vabbi area.

4. Make insignia prices static. It makes no sense that Tyrian and Canthan characters can get a pair of Bloodstained boots for 1.5k, wherea NF characters must pay 10k. Runes can stay as they are, since the original two campaigns did not include them as standard.

If the loot is scaled back to normal plus extra for full parties, and my other suggestions are implemented, you'll see a price drop across the board for rare items, and new and casual players will find that they don't have to save every last bit of gold to get one piece of 15k Sunspear, not to mention dropping 9k on a Bloodstained insignia. Instead, they can have more fun, and get REAL rewards for acheiving titles, making it an actual incentive to play with people, rather than PUNISHING those who don't group.

Positive reward that doesn't hurt anyone and eliminates botting more effectively vs.

Negative reinforcement alienating players and making botting more valuable.

Hard to believe ANet, in their grand vision and wisdom for some reason keep choosing the second option.

[edit] I will say that one of my favorite things to do is warping into a mob and WTFBBQPWNZORING them, as they've done to me so many times. That being said, the enjoyment is severely lessened if I know ahead of time that the mobs are hiding all their wealth because the mindless beasts don't think its appropriate....

You mean casual gamers? Only expert farmers know how to farm Underworld. And why do something troublesome like farming Underworld for an hour, while you can just kill trolls and get the 1K you need in a matter of minutes? You seem to fail to understand that alot of casual players do NOT want to make real money. They just want enough so that they can buy the basic stuff. Now, the casual gamers got screwed, and are forced to do UW? (which they can;t cause they don't have enough cash for the armor, weapons, skills and entree costs, btw.)

Why do casual players have to show more skill and effort, if all they want is cash for the skills, hero weapons, 1,5K armor etc. People wouldn't need money as if it is granted to them, if the stuff around them wasn't so expensive. Especially with the heroes taking OUR drops, but still needing OUR money to be of any use.

And also, why decrease the amount of choices we have to make money? Why force everyone to do the same things? Every profession being able to farm FoW/UW, doesn't mean every player being able to. Just because people have less skill in UW/FoW, don't they deserve basic equipment?

(And don't come with the 'questing/missioning' gives you enough cash, cause that's not true. Back in my old days of being a newb, I had to grind 5 days in order to get a good weapon, and another week before I could buy my first armor. And now, with 16 professions having the game beaten, I wonder where all the cash is everyone seems to be getting? Ohh, could it be that I spent over a 5000K on just my character's and hero's equipment alone? Not to mention skills...)

And A-Net only made the situation better for bots: People don;'t want to farm endlessly to get the stuff they need (need, not want), so why not just buy from bots? Also, bots just get in party of 8 and don't lose any drops.

Regarding the "left the building" comment from Gaile; I think it's quite unfair the people who aren't being rude and genuinely want to discuss the update don't get a chance to now because a few immature members decided to get personal.

No disrespect, and I am not condoning the name-calling (I think it is completely immature and uncalled for), but sadly it is to be expected in your line of work as a public go-between for an online game... I hope the opinions and concerns of the more mature people here are still going to be addressed, it would be a shame if they fell on deaf ears now because of a few childish members.

I'd like to see these point addressed by Gaile / ANet as well, as if there is a problem, surely it is in ANet's interest to deal with it without alienating any of their customers if they can.

I'll just lay this out straight.

Try farming, it still works fine.
AND
Most of you overreact way to much. Grow up guys.

Took me 5 minutes work(!!), no kidding.
Now what morron claimed solo farming sucks these days? :P

PS: As you can see by the items, I solo farm in tyria, in hard mode.

-EDIT-



There is no point in farming when you suck at guild wars or don't invest time in it.
If you invest time in guild wars and don't suck at it, you will finish a chapter and you can start making real money. I understand the problem and I'm not trying to be ignorant, but why complain when there is a good alternative to normal mode farming

Also, some other people seem to have read your 'post'
Here is a random responce:


:P

U JOKING RIGNT ? have u tryed farming your self ? its far from fine just read all the posts!!

EDIT: AS FOR POST ABOVE! not every 1 wants to farm hard mode!! also new player cant farm hard mode.

He's right. If anything, farming is much better and easier now. But lets not let facts get in the way of kids finding something to create a drama over. Chances are, most of the ones complaining haven't actually bothered trying to farm anything since the last update, and instead read the initial update notes, over reacted, and started whining.

NO IM NOT JOKING! I've farmed in both normal and hard mode. Its far from bad, in fact, its alot better. All my old farming spots have net me alot more(and better) drops than i've ever gotten.

And if you honestly believe that all the artards posting and crying about the "nerf" have actually TRIED farming, well....i don't want to go into personal attacks...

You have to understand, if one person crys foul, a lot of people like to do the same, before they even know if its true or not.

One thing I fervently hope for is that GW2 is not centered around an economy like gw1. An economy is not required to have a game, it is merely a way of offering content.

Thanks for the Input Gaile, it really helped. This type of discourse is really needed on an ongoing basis.

If you believe farming does not work, here is proof that you are wrong.

What do you tell all the people who haven't made it to hard mode yet? Or now can't scrape the cash together to get the items, armor and runes to be a successful farmer?

This complaint thread isn't about hardcore farming in Hard mode, heck I PREFER green and gold solo farming.

What it was about was the fact that your average "n00b" gasp! who wanted some new skills could conceivably go farm vermin for a few k to buy some skills or cap sigs.

Now they can't. So the rich get richer, and the poor stay poor. GG balance.

I just don't understand why they are trying to make us unhappy!
It is a GAME, it is supposed to make people happy and give them funny experiences.
They don't understand that people don't want to feel like they are working like in a real work instead of feeling like playing something fun and productive that gives you a lot of money, weapons, armors...
If you make a game as hard as making money in real life what is the pleasure of playing and forgetting real life. Just let it go Anet, make us happy, satisfy us! we are simple humans with simple minds that like satisfaction, once you understand that you will do good. UN NERF EVERYTHING! starting with AOE, Soul Reaping, only 10 minions, skills (if you have to separate pvp from pve do it damn it!) and everything you have done for the good of us! feels like a parent punishing us! And let me tell you, nobody likes that lol
Oh! and let us bring our chars to GW2 and not transferable birthday presents.
This is my DREAM and i know is not gonna happen, so bye bye
And the bad thing is that this game use to be like that: perfect, i miss those days badly.

Noob farming is called noob farming becuz u already made crap cash with it. so I don't really care^^

as u can see from my post on page 9,^ i have tryed farming my norm spot as i want fow armor. gold items are usless to me as i dont want to spend the best time of my limited game play to selling items and dealing with the stress that come with it.

So they farm somewhere other than vermin.... They can quest alot of the prophecies skills too.

I worked hard to get where I am in the game. I can now access HM on any chapter. I don't want players who didn't do the time to get the same rewards that I get! No Gamer Left Behind, pah! This same mentality is why our country's children are all growing up mediocre. Finish the chapters, THEN worry about getting the fancy armor/weapons! That is the way it should be. Big Job=Big Reward.

And the people with Canthan/Nightfall characters? I don't remember there being a lot of Assassin/Ritualist/Dervish/Paragon skill rewards in Tyria...

And do people even read before posting? I specifically stated what do people new to the game or who weren't rich beforehand do in NORMAL mode to generate cash to get stuff?

Yes, I'm glad Silvershock doesn't care about the majority of GW PvE players, his posts only serve to reinforce my argument, although he probably can't see that.

Read my post last page with my ideas for improvement. If you can honestly say that those ideas are WORSE than what is currently in place... then I feel very sorry for you and the community.

That much? It might all still be the result of farming, but the picture looks like it's is on the Isle, with a Master of Winds in the background?

Really! what is the big reward in hard mode? a stupid tittle to display that nobody realize that is there? not even new weapons skins? are you joking? do you expect me to play 3 campaigns with my 8 chars again? for that! i am laughing in everybody's face if you think there is a lot of people motivated to play hard mode! Doa was a joke, hardmode is a bad joke

I don't think Anet really wants your further input though. All Gaile is doing anymore is trying to repair bad image.

The bottom line is that solo farmers aren't going to have a ton of gold relative to everyone. That means you've lost the advantage you used to have, and everyone else just playing the game is then better off. The richer group doesn't want equality, the poor group does. There is no way Anet can appease the rich group while still achieving their "socialist" goals which they think are best for the community at large (and I happen to agree.)

If they upped party drops instead of lowering solo drops, after inflation/deflation of item value the result would be the same. *Any* solution that gives regular players easier access to market-value items drops the value of items you farm and sell, *Any* solution that gives them easier access to gold and junk drops inflates gold to the point that the solo farmer's won't go as far anymore. It would take longer to be noticed but the result is the same. The only thing that doesn't adjust relatively are static prices like skills, 15k for armor, 5k for weapons etc. so you might as well discuss those instead.

Basically there is no way to make everyone happy in an equalizing move unless those losing their current advantage happen to be easily fooled. (though I think some have been...)

P.S. between the prophecies skill quests, the crazy factions xp/gold rewards, nightfall hero skill trainers, collectors for weapons... I have no idea what you *need* to farm for. I've managed to fully unlock 4 professions on my ranger just from quests, missions, and selling my endgame green. Any "casual" player's money needs should be less extreme I hope.

I had posted somewhere else that I haven't noticed much of a difference in loot drops since the update, other than an increased number of Gold item drops, and this is still true. Reading this much needed specification on how loot scaling works makes me understand why. They are really only interested in scaling gold. I feel that the reasons behind this are justified and it seems like a good idea to me.

What I find amusing is that in all the farming nerf complaint threads before this one you saw nothing but posts about how "Solo-Farming is the only thing I enjoy, you've ruined the game for me, I'm going to rage quit because I can't solo-farm as effectively as I used to, blah blah blah". Only now that we have an explanation and it is clear that solo-farming can still reap great rewards, the issue has suddenly become "But your newer players cant farm to get the items they need!". That was never the case to begin with, and it isn't the case now, as newer players can still farm for gold/green drops and sell them for profit. It is my understanding that the only people affected are people who continually farm for new gold from a map, and if those people are so upset about having to sell a few items to make that gold as opposed to having it drop outright, well then they're probably running bots now aren't they, because that's just a stupid complaint.

I guess foxbat was right, you can't make everyone happy. I for one feel this was a great update and breathed new life into the game, and it seems most players in-game feel the same, it's too bad on these threads the only people who really take the time to post are people who want to complain about everything and the silent majority goes largely unrepresented.

In my humble opinion I feel that this update is a bad choice. I dont understand the reasoning behind this. Now if you want to buy decent armor or weapons you have to buy gold online and pay a rediculious price for them, because this is going to be driving prices up.

I do understand that the problem with the bots...but who cares. You are punishing all of us because of the bots!!! Most of us farm the gold and these green items to sell at market price and then buy our armor and whatever else we need. What about the players that arent in guilds or even the ones that are just starting out, theyre not gonna stay, whats the point?!?!?!? You cant make these Deep runs, and DOA missions with the base crap you get and it will be too hard to get anything else. There must be a diff way to stop these bots than making everyone suffer, I for one MAY never play again that may not bother anyone but for 3 years I have been playing in my spare time and made lots of friends and it sucks that this is happening cause I have a really bad taste in my mouth for Guild Wars now, I was soooo looking forward to GW2. Kinda pointless now.

But that (the bit of your post I put in bold) is half the point of the complaints. I'm a casual farmer who is farming to buy: armour, skills, and keys. I don't want to buy traded items, and I was happy farming to get a better chance of finding what I did want. Basically there are two choices:

Make everyone except expert farmers poorer (what ANet has done)
- this means that the casual player who wants to buy 15K armour or lots of skills is still going to find it hard to do so, and
- will have some unknown effect on the economy, as has been pointed out the hardcore "expert farmers" playing on hard mode can still make lots of money so we don't really know how the amount of money in the system will be affected.

Make non-farmers richer (by increasing the drop rate for groups)
- everyone will find it easier to buy the armour and skills they want, and
- the non-farmers will have more money to spend on other stuff.

So, again, why not choose the second option which (a) doesn't upset people and (b) is far more likely to meet ANet's stated goals?

Did you read the dev notes before you posted this? Gaile specifically said farming for items to sell to characters and earn money that is currently in the game will not be affected by loot scaling and will, in-fact, be more successfull due to increased rare drops. Omg I give up. I'm rage quitting the forums.

I think ANET has done a lot for us by releasing the update excluding certain items from scaleing. I am very happy with how farming is set up now and most people should be too. The current system has seriously hurt BOT farming, look at Gold Prices online. That was their goal and its working, we still have farming!
As for the complaints of people needing cash for armor, skills etc, that can be easilly fixed, lower skill cost to 100Gold and increase rewards for mission and quest rewards, thats all they need to do! By increasing the rewards, people will play missions and quests more and that will make it a little easier to get a PUG, and if mission and quest rewards were substantially increased, people could easilly get the money they needed. Perhaps the new skill tomes drop rate could even be increased. There are also more ways anet could allow the casual user to get gold like simply double or triple the ammount of gold dropped by each monster, with the current system of scaleing, the casual people would benifit while the Bots still would not get more that the casual players.

I think you misunderstood, but hey, that seems to happen a lot in these B&M threads. Sorry, but I don't feel the need to clarify, will be going to play the game now.

Oh, BTW Gaile, it is really sad that people have been so rude to you, I sympathize. You have to put up with a lot of the B&M just for your job and I applaud you for the composure you show under the circumstances. You don't usually get the option, I'm sure, to just turn it off and go play. Well, here's to you!

Ok first & foremost i have 1 bluntly openly viewable thing you all should agree w/ but ummm.....Why the updates to begin w/,i mean how many updates have you dun in the past few days 3 i beleive it is,you did 1 on the 18th,19th & 1 on the 20th,now correct me if im wrong here but was there really a NEED for this? I mean i play this game DAILY as does alot of folks round here & i witness & watch the community hardcore for changes,updates,outlooks,views,opinions etc etc the list goes on & on, the fact of the matter is there was SOME minor moaning,harping & crying but your gonna have that everywhere you go in life,not EVERYONE is always gonna be happy.

My point is this,life was good until these past (THREE) updates,NOW LOOK, you have more than you can handle so far as harping,moaning,crying & B****ing about everything you just destroyed.There was nothing potentially wrong w/ the game so far as the majority of the public was concerned,sure im gonna have alot of folks disagree & maybe sum will agree w/ what im saying rite now but that draws you back to what i said a few moments ago "not EVERYONE is always gonna be happy"

Now youve unloaded a whole new can of beans that from my perspective noone is happy nor content w/.Yea you as you call (VETERAN/HARDCORE FARMERS) say arent hurt by it,no WE are not,im one of them,i can farm w/ the best of em but you know what,its gotten to the point its a headache nemore to do so,yea i can still do it,thats not the issue.Its not FUN to do nemore is what im getting at.I dont enjoy my time here in guildwars no more,its gotten to a point that its to politically Fu**ed up w/in the economy these days,remember ANET,this is (A GAME!) its not meant to be turned into REAL life drama,its supposed to be fun not give you a frickin headache when you launch your game.

Yes i agree w/ busting your hump & finishing a chapter before you git the BIG rewards such as DoA,i absolutely LOVE DoA myself & find it VERY rewarding to spend the time to run thru & git the perks at the end & within the run as well (gem drops) etc...BUT,w/ that being said do you really think your AVERAGE joe is EVER gonna figure that out? Do you really think jon doe is gonna beat the game and realize to come back in and say oh yea,imma do mallyx w/ henchies,ok then he goes and tries it w/ henchies,damn it aint workin,why,hmm lemme think,ok ill try it this way instead,o damn,that didnt work either,it takes a certain talent,group of people to go there & be rewarded.

No one person is gonna figure out the challenges & be capable of working thru those challenges unless he/she hangs out w/ another guild that knows about it and how to work it,or has friends that knows how it works,one thing needs to be understood here,maybe i buy this game as an (INDIVIDUAL) & im a solo type person,i live my life ALONE,thats who i am in a sense & i see a game called guildwars sittin on the shelf and i wanna have FUN by myself and play this game and beat it and enjoy myself doing it.Alot of games out there give you that option of doing so,this game does not,cuz it has things in it to offer that not only 1 person can do ALONE!They NEED REAL people to help them do it,you guys even say in plain english DoA can NOT be done w/ henchies,its not possible,yea sure bring 50 million candy canes for yourself but what about the henchies,lol.

This post was pointed toward one thing in general (you shoulda left the game alone!) it was perfect (MY OPINION) before the last (3) updates.

GW's 2? hmmph,you wont be seeing me buy it netime soon if its to be designed & crafted to meet the same standards as this first chapter.

Oh & 1 last thing, (Silvershock) i can go to my storage & dump a million golds,greens,gold etc on the ground too,all that screenshot does is irritate people & make you look like a swelled headed know it all,keep your know how to yourself,dont brag about it.Rather than brag & harp you still have the so called TALENT why dont you take that talent and teach folks,rather than spendin your time here w/ your bragging rites spend that time devoted to helping the community better themselves if you agree w/ the NERF!

I wanna have fun & i wanna take my guild places & explore new options,areas that give us the FUN we do so desire as a whole.Its not fun nemore when oyu have to sit in a town for 30 minutes going over builds,skills,schematics,neumatics,odometers,maps, global positioning sensors,speedometers,calibrations,blue prints & i could go on and on,yall git my point,lol....

have a g-day,can hardly wait to come back and see the response.

Even you ragequitted over this XD.

Just hope they realise how badly this screwed the average player and change it back...