Hysteria on the side, I think that overall there has not been that big of a damage to the economy, that we know of. However, the real damage is to DoA economy.
Now that I know about it, I thikn this exploit was in effect for a week or two at least, however, the game's economy has been stable during those two weeks. Ecto prices went up when people thought Favor was lost forever and have gone down since then. However, there is no sign that duping was as widespread as some people think nor that it has damaged the overall economy much.
Of course, there is the chance that some people have stacks and stacks of other duped items in their storage and they're just waiting to use them.
However, for now, we know that the economy is ok. The only problem I see now is the economy of DoA with all those dime-a-dozen armbraces around.
All item duplication exploit (do not name players please)
Karlos
spellsword
A rollback would be the final blow to Anet. With EotN comming out soon, they simply can't afford it.
Tijger
Quote:
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Originally Posted by g r i m 7
All you people that would quit because of a Rollback are just plain selfish. You don't want to lose all YOUR little accomplishments but you don't look at the big picture here. Rollback would be the only thing to do right now until A-Net can think of something else to do.
They can't remove all the Torment Weps/Armbraces because most people sold them already and because some people actually spent their time and money getting them. They can't make them untradable seeing as most people sold them for a lot of cash. I don't see any other choise A-Net has other than to Rollback. |
Talk about selfish. 99.9% of players have never even seen an armbrace, get over yourself, please, the majority doesnt care about your torment weps or armbraces and whether you did or didnt buy/sell them. The majority DOES care about losing all they worked for for a month to appease a relative few high end traders and farmers.
Bubba
So many people here are talking about a rollback. Why would I want a rollback when I don't even care about DOA? How many people actually care about DOA? I doubt the majority of the GW population do.
A rollback is the easy way to do it for A-Net, but they should just do their work, investigate and ban the people responsible. A rollback of more then a few hours seems unrealistic to me in keeping people happy when looking at the majority of the GW population. Every reaction A-Net will undertake now will piss off some people, but the notion of a rollback is just ridiculous in my opinion when compared to the impact.
Just swing that little ban scepter around, people knew what they were getting into the moment they started abusing the glitch.
A rollback is the easy way to do it for A-Net, but they should just do their work, investigate and ban the people responsible. A rollback of more then a few hours seems unrealistic to me in keeping people happy when looking at the majority of the GW population. Every reaction A-Net will undertake now will piss off some people, but the notion of a rollback is just ridiculous in my opinion when compared to the impact.
Just swing that little ban scepter around, people knew what they were getting into the moment they started abusing the glitch.
Shanaeri Rynale
I doubt there will be a roll back. A few thousand armbraces is nothing compared to the backlash that would be faced by a rollback, esp over a festival weekend where people spent days on titles etc.
Talk of a month rollback is also out of the question, for the same reason.
All that will happen is that the armbraces in game at the moment will go down in price, more people will get shiny weapons and we'll move on. Torment weapons and armbraces were always going to decline in value in Gwen, so all this has done is sped up the process. The amount of extra guild bought into the economy is probably no more than people spend on ebay gold in that same period.
The impact of this, is less than the trader reset and trader bugs. What may happen is that they will close the servers for a while to ascertain the effects but thats all. Those players who were caught trying to buy stuff for 1000 armbraces will get banned, and this will be yesterdays news.
As for the red dye dupe, I believe they did it, otherwise why would AN disable reconnects?
Talk of a month rollback is also out of the question, for the same reason.
All that will happen is that the armbraces in game at the moment will go down in price, more people will get shiny weapons and we'll move on. Torment weapons and armbraces were always going to decline in value in Gwen, so all this has done is sped up the process. The amount of extra guild bought into the economy is probably no more than people spend on ebay gold in that same period.
The impact of this, is less than the trader reset and trader bugs. What may happen is that they will close the servers for a while to ascertain the effects but thats all. Those players who were caught trying to buy stuff for 1000 armbraces will get banned, and this will be yesterdays news.
As for the red dye dupe, I believe they did it, otherwise why would AN disable reconnects?
mr_groovy
Quote:
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Originally Posted by g r i m 7
They can't remove all the Torment Weps/Armbraces because most people sold them already and because some people actually spent their time and money getting them.
I don't see any other choise A-Net has other than to Rollback. |
ALL items could be duped. Ecto's, Gold items, Greens, Lockpicks, rare materials etc. Also there is no estimate time that the dupes were detected. So rollback wouldn't really be fair.
semantic
Quote:
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Originally Posted by g r i m 7
All you people that would quit because of a Rollback are just plain selfish. You don't want to lose all YOUR little accomplishments but you don't look at the big picture here. Rollback would be the only thing to do right now until A-Net can think of something else to do.
They can't remove all the Torment Weps/Armbraces because most people sold them already and because some people actually spent their time and money getting them. They can't make them untradable seeing as most people sold them for a lot of cash. I don't see any other choise A-Net has other than to Rollback. |
If there's a rollback, thousands and thousands of achievements would be undone. It would be stupid, and they won't do it 2 weeks before they launch their first product in a year.
Lykan
Rollback? No chance..
Think about the last month for a second..
Dragon festival and afkers farmer, Double Fame W/end and Double Champ points w/end and prob some other pve stuff.
Wont happen people.
Think about the last month for a second..
Dragon festival and afkers farmer, Double Fame W/end and Double Champ points w/end and prob some other pve stuff.
Wont happen people.
Zorgy
It is crazy LOL 20 minutes after my previous post the rythm of wts & wtb has increased dramatically.
its like a crash at the stock exchange
WTS 500 ambraces 5k each omfg LOL
And some chinese ads as well with a tel n° or a long line of figures.
its like a crash at the stock exchange
WTS 500 ambraces 5k each omfg LOL
And some chinese ads as well with a tel n° or a long line of figures.
evilkingsky
You guys are all talking about "who cares about armbraces", but what about the dupers who have stockpiled up a bunch of ectos or rubies in their inventory waiting to sell at a later time. I hope theres a way to just delete all duped items, but if not a short rollback does sound reasonable (a week or less). It would probably remove a majority of duped items because this exploit seems to have gotten alot of activity only recently.
g r i m 7
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Tijger
What exactly IS that big picture you are talking about here? The few people who've traded for armbraces of the vast majority to whom their 'little' accomplishments may mean an awful lot?
Talk about selfish. 99.9% of players have never even seen an armbrace, get over yourself, please, the majority doesnt care about your torment weps or armbraces and whether you did or didnt buy/sell them. The majority DOES care about losing all they worked for for a month to appease a relative few high end traders and farmers. |
VOTE ROLLBACK!!!
Chris Blackstar
why rollback anything? You want to stop the dupe bullshit, then just don't except armbraces as payment for any trade. Another thing, stop inflation the prices of items by adding ecto's or some other rare material to drive the price beyond 100K. All the traders out there who started that crap are the one's responsible for the current state the game and economy is in right now.
The only other way to solve this crap is to come out with a new monitary unit, example: 1000g=1plat 100plat=1 chaos crystal Make the last unit a item that does not drop, or stack and is only avalable from a game banker for 100K
The only other way to solve this crap is to come out with a new monitary unit, example: 1000g=1plat 100plat=1 chaos crystal Make the last unit a item that does not drop, or stack and is only avalable from a game banker for 100K
Traveller
I'm interested in seeing how far they can track the duplicates. If you trade a duplicated item for a tormented weapon and sell it on, there's potentially a heck of a lot of people getting the short end of these trades if they reset them all.
jrk247
Quote:
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Originally Posted by g r i m 7
Get over MYSELF. Your the one that thinks your all high and mighty. But enough about that, I dont even HAVE A torment weapon, Nor do I want one. I'm perfectly fine with my greens. I'm all about fairness in this game. Is it fair that a few hundred people made MILLIONS while the rest of the game is Mildly poor? No. Most people are concerned about their titles and shit but they wont even lend a noob a measly 50g because they are that selfish. This game needs to be fair for ALL people, not just the ones that exploit glitches and bugs in the system.
VOTE ROLLBACK!!! |
Chunk
Finally the game is collapsing!
now I can get back to Real Life.
It's been a good run everyone. See you in Hell!
now I can get back to Real Life.
It's been a good run everyone. See you in Hell!
Shanaeri Rynale
Quote:
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Originally Posted by semantic
People who spent their time/money getting torment gear legitimately will still have them tomorrow. No amount of duping can take them away from you or anybody else.
If there's a rollback, thousands and thousands of achievements would be undone. It would be stupid, and they won't do it 2 weeks before they launch their first product in a year. |
As soon as you realise that this will happen to whatever item you farm for,make or buy the more fun things will be.
Patrick Smit
Quote:
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Originally Posted by strcpy
We also do not what constitutes and "item" in their code - there is no reason why they can not have a semi-unique identifier. Then again, there is no specific reason why they do either.
I know in a past project I worked we needed some way to keep thing mostly seperate - a collision was to be somewhat avoided but wasn't really bad. We added a 16 bit identifier that was a hash of several things (process ID and time stamp). The assumption was that this gave is 65538 identifiers and that was enough even under excessive load - models showed that we had a collision something like once every few million runs under twice the estimated top load and a collision just meant that it tried again. So, does anet doe something similar? That is one byte per item, heck even if they went with one bit the chances of having 1250 Ambraces of Truth with all the same state is pretty much zero - yet a dupe would do so. Were I to do an online game and this did not cause a storage cost issue (and it may very well, I do not know their margins) it would be something I would add, especially on higher cost items. Though it would be much more difficult to do with stackable items, I would be fairly surprised if the dupers limited it to just them. |
Bubba
Quote:
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Originally Posted by g r i m 7
Get over MYSELF. Your the one that thinks your all high and mighty. But enough about that, I dont even HAVE A torment weapon, Nor do I want one. I'm perfectly fine with my greens. I'm all about fairness in this game. Is it fair that a few hundred people made MILLIONS while the rest of the game is Mildly poor? No. Most people are concerned about their titles and shit but they wont even lend a noob a measly 50g because they are that selfish. This game needs to be fair for ALL people, not just the ones that exploit glitches and bugs in the system.
VOTE ROLLBACK!!! |
evilkingsky
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Chris Blackstar
why rollback anything? You want to stop the dupe bullshit, then just don't except armbraces as payment for any trade. Another thing, stop inflation the prices of items by adding ecto's or some other rare material to drive the price beyond 100K. All the traders out there who started that crap are the one's responsible for the current state the game and economy is in right now.
The only other way to solve this crap is to come out with a new monitary unit, example: 1000g=1plat 100plat=1 chaos crystal Make the last unit a item that does not drop, or stack and is only avalable from a game banker for 100K |
Hyper.nl
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Karlos
Hysteria on the side, I think that overall there has not been that big of a damage to the economy, that we know of. However, the real damage is to DoA economy.
Now that I know about it, I thikn this exploit was in effect for a week or two at least, however, the game's economy has been stable during those two weeks. Ecto prices went up when people thought Favor was lost forever and have gone down since then. However, there is no sign that duping was as widespread as some people think nor that it has damaged the overall economy much. Of course, there is the chance that some people have stacks and stacks of other duped items in their storage and they're just waiting to use them. However, for now, we know that the economy is ok. The only problem I see now is the economy of DoA with all those dime-a-dozen armbraces around. |
g r i m 7
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Bubba
Oh yes, it's really fair to rollback everyone just because of a few. Punish the guilty, not everyone. I don't give a rats ass if someone has more gold then I do, but I do care if I get punished because he did something wrong to get there. Look at what your saying, you want to punish EVERYONE for, as you say yourself, a few hundred. How is that fair?
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Chunk
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Gaile Gray
Here is what we know:
Lastly, stop and think: When did you first become aware of this issue? It's easy to leap to conclusions. But you can't say that because it was related to reconnects, the exploit was used since reconnects were added to the game. That's making a very large assumption. I'll make one in return: I'll assume that most of you heard of this exploit today. How likely is it, then, that it's been around for months? Even weeks? You know the Internet; you know the player base. How likely is it that it's been used for a long while without the word getting out? Before we talk about massive catastrophes, let's consider that the impact may have been quite minimal. We'll share more info as we have it. |
mr_groovy
Quote:
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Originally Posted by g r i m 7
I dont even HAVE A torment weapon, Nor do I want one. I'm perfectly fine with my greens. I'm all about fairness in this game. Is it fair that a few hundred people made MILLIONS while the rest of the game is Mildly poor? No. Most people are concerned about their titles and shit but they wont even lend a noob a measly 50g because they are that selfish. This game needs to be fair for ALL people, not just the ones that exploit glitches and bugs in the system.
VOTE ROLLBACK!!! |
Just you don't have the patience or skills to farm doesn't mean other people can't. I like my fow armor, and tormented shield. I got them investing a lot of time in them. And you should pay noobs 50g because they will not learn anything from that, they'll just ask another person for 50g again. Just inform them how to get the money them self .... Though I can't be bothered any more these days. Way to many noob cakes around
Curse You
Quote:
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Originally Posted by evilkingsky
but there's already some people who have made millions by selling duped items. even if everybody were to stop accepting armbraces as payment now, the dupers would be filthy rich already. Just leave them be?
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by g r i m 7
I don't see anyone else coming up with any other fast, bright ideas to get rid of these duped items so doing a rollback would be the only fast solution to getting rid of them.
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What you want is like seeing an ant in your living room, and then firing a missile to get rid of it.
jelmew
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Hyper.nl
Not only armbraces could be duped. Who knows what else has been duped. Most likely candidates are rare minipets, Rubies, Sapphires, Diamonds, Ecto's, Superior vigor runes. All of these have been dropped in price a lot. Maybe afterall the loot scaling/hard mode update was not the only thing that was responsible for the large overall price drop. But we can't know this yet.
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g r i m 7
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Curse You
So? What are they going to do, throw their extra money at you? What does it matter how much gold they have.
Banning them. What you want is like seeing an ant in your living room, and then firing a missile to get rid of it. |
Karlos
There's nothing to vote on guys... A Rollback for those who do not understand it is a reset of server data to a past point. That resets your character's loot as well as their progress in the game.
That means that for my guildie who has been working on a survivor for the past 2 weeks, his survivor is reset to level 3. It means my monk loses the 2 titles he acquired in the same span. Large numbers of players would quit the game if they realized that ANet decided to punish THEM for what the scammers did. Not to mention, sales for GW:EN will plummet.
Most importantly, will a rollback solve the problem? It will not. They cannot pin-point when the duping started exactly, therefore, any arbitrary date they choose cannot fix the problem while it will guarantee them the wrath of countless honest players. It's just not going to happen. As I said above, the economy has been fine for the past 2-3 weeks (my guess on how long this has been going on) and therefore, I see no reason for a rollback.
As far as DoA, they can do a few things. They can leave the arbmbraces in the system and just ride out the storm, they can simply introduce a replacement for Armbraces (given by spirits of Truth and accepted by the weapon keeper). This would immediately render the existing piles of armbraces useless. It will hurt a few players who may have a hard-earned armbrace in storage and have not used it yet, but that's about it. Remember, Armbraces were NOT used as curency typically.
The real concern I think for ANet and us players is... How widespread was this duping issue among OTHER things. Are there stacks of Black Dyes, Ectos, Diamonds and Superior Vigors lying about with two dozen players? I really have no guess with regards to that.
That means that for my guildie who has been working on a survivor for the past 2 weeks, his survivor is reset to level 3. It means my monk loses the 2 titles he acquired in the same span. Large numbers of players would quit the game if they realized that ANet decided to punish THEM for what the scammers did. Not to mention, sales for GW:EN will plummet.
Most importantly, will a rollback solve the problem? It will not. They cannot pin-point when the duping started exactly, therefore, any arbitrary date they choose cannot fix the problem while it will guarantee them the wrath of countless honest players. It's just not going to happen. As I said above, the economy has been fine for the past 2-3 weeks (my guess on how long this has been going on) and therefore, I see no reason for a rollback.
As far as DoA, they can do a few things. They can leave the arbmbraces in the system and just ride out the storm, they can simply introduce a replacement for Armbraces (given by spirits of Truth and accepted by the weapon keeper). This would immediately render the existing piles of armbraces useless. It will hurt a few players who may have a hard-earned armbrace in storage and have not used it yet, but that's about it. Remember, Armbraces were NOT used as curency typically.
The real concern I think for ANet and us players is... How widespread was this duping issue among OTHER things. Are there stacks of Black Dyes, Ectos, Diamonds and Superior Vigors lying about with two dozen players? I really have no guess with regards to that.
Shadis
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Chunk
I don't know about you guys, but I smell fear. I think they realize GW will lose quite a few players over this. Would you put your money in a bank that is getting robbed. Would you put your time into a game that is getting exploited.
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I really don't "smell fear" in her post, it was informative as far as what she knows and actually admits that it happened, a lot more than I've seen from other companies.
If anyone quits this game over a dupe exploit, then they should re-evaluate their stance on playing online games at all, because it happens everywhere. I highly doubt this game will lose players because of it. Diablo 2 is hacker heaven even on their "secure" realms and mass people still play it.
zwei2stein
* imho, this was happening ever since ectoes got dive. someone propably used lauch of hm as cover for selling ton of them to trader, and also as cover for duping rare items.
* person with 7 stacks of armbraces is very stupid. He is fine example how greed can make you total idiot.
* exploit was so simple that i feel bad for not figuring it out. those anet articles about security of mmo convinced me that they wouldnt make such a basic mistake so i didnt bother testing.
really, saving character data on disconect is not cool if that character is still in game and can interact via trade.
* problem here are not armbrace dupers, it is everyone else who did it. as someone already said, more logical way is to keep your head down and get rich as pig on lockpicks and only interact with npc. I believe there are people who have outfited all their heroes with tormented stuff without anyone knowing it, ever.
* Economy impact is not minimal, you have no idea how many people and now out there, richer than any ebayer can dream. Everyone what was at guru in right moment had enough time to get full mule of 250 stacks of anything.
It takes only 8 dupes to get full stack when you start with 1 of it. After that, it takes 3 dupes to have 7+1 stacks and after that you can produce 7 stacks per dupe. If one dupe takes minute, you have mule full of stacks in less than thirty minutes.
I believe most of people alerted by this thread had more than that.
* Oh man, i wish i was online when such stuff is happening, i missed trader resets (both of them), i missed dual axes, i missed hod sword mass purchases and now i miss this :-/.
* person with 7 stacks of armbraces is very stupid. He is fine example how greed can make you total idiot.
* exploit was so simple that i feel bad for not figuring it out. those anet articles about security of mmo convinced me that they wouldnt make such a basic mistake so i didnt bother testing.
really, saving character data on disconect is not cool if that character is still in game and can interact via trade.
* problem here are not armbrace dupers, it is everyone else who did it. as someone already said, more logical way is to keep your head down and get rich as pig on lockpicks and only interact with npc. I believe there are people who have outfited all their heroes with tormented stuff without anyone knowing it, ever.
* Economy impact is not minimal, you have no idea how many people and now out there, richer than any ebayer can dream. Everyone what was at guru in right moment had enough time to get full mule of 250 stacks of anything.
It takes only 8 dupes to get full stack when you start with 1 of it. After that, it takes 3 dupes to have 7+1 stacks and after that you can produce 7 stacks per dupe. If one dupe takes minute, you have mule full of stacks in less than thirty minutes.
I believe most of people alerted by this thread had more than that.
* Oh man, i wish i was online when such stuff is happening, i missed trader resets (both of them), i missed dual axes, i missed hod sword mass purchases and now i miss this :-/.
Divinus Stella
Certainly explains why ectos has been so low.
They cant rollback and banning these people isnt gonna happen, most of these dupers most likely used second accounts anyway.
Im just gonna stick to PvP, now they fixed HA i dont mind so much that they broke PvE, theres no fun in ammounting cash via legit methods when everyone else has an inventory full of ecto and armbrace stacks.
I just hope they change the way the hall of monuments works to prevent any seepage into GW2, if they allow cash in the form of eBay-titles/minipets to influence GW2 then the dupers win.
Ive seen that dude in HA aswel, laming with rit spike i think, it seems that exploiting broken things is a hobby for some people.
They cant rollback and banning these people isnt gonna happen, most of these dupers most likely used second accounts anyway.
Im just gonna stick to PvP, now they fixed HA i dont mind so much that they broke PvE, theres no fun in ammounting cash via legit methods when everyone else has an inventory full of ecto and armbrace stacks.
I just hope they change the way the hall of monuments works to prevent any seepage into GW2, if they allow cash in the form of eBay-titles/minipets to influence GW2 then the dupers win.
Ive seen that dude in HA aswel, laming with rit spike i think, it seems that exploiting broken things is a hobby for some people.
evilkingsky
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Curse You
So? What are they going to do, throw their extra money at you? What does it matter how much gold they have.
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Hyper.nl
I surely hope ANet can track all dupes in an advanced database search and remove them from the game. But I highly doubt if it can be tracked. Many duped items (Not only armbraces) made their way deep into the economy right now and have been sold to legitime players and trader NPC's.
It just hurt so much, so many players invested a huge amount of time into obtaining items that may be massively dropping in value soon.
It just hurt so much, so many players invested a huge amount of time into obtaining items that may be massively dropping in value soon.
Redfeather1975
Some players noticed something fishy around the middle of July.
We just shrugged it off in the end.
http://guildwars.incgamers.com/forum...hlight=ambrace
That topic started 1-2 days after someone posted a gold selling/item duping thread that got deleted rather quickly. If there is still record of that topic, from June 15-16 then it could show whatever site advertised item duping cheats.
I do not remember if the deleted topic was on guru or gwonline.
We just shrugged it off in the end.
http://guildwars.incgamers.com/forum...hlight=ambrace
That topic started 1-2 days after someone posted a gold selling/item duping thread that got deleted rather quickly. If there is still record of that topic, from June 15-16 then it could show whatever site advertised item duping cheats.
I do not remember if the deleted topic was on guru or gwonline.
Blackhearted
Quote:
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Originally Posted by g r i m 7
I don't see anyone else coming up with any other fast, bright ideas to get rid of these duped items so doing a rollback would be the only fast solution to getting rid of them.
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Darko_UK
They appeared at exactly the same time in a busy town, There is absolutely no way that is possible unless a bot was used. Fact - I've already reported to anet we will see what they have to say.
FACT
FACT
jrk247
Well if there's a rollback (hoping there won't be one) I think I'm going to stop playing GW for a bit, I've done a lot in the past few weeks/month.
Tijger
Quote:
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Originally Posted by evilkingsky
but there's already some people who have made millions by selling duped items. even if everybody were to stop accepting armbraces as payment now, the dupers would be filthy rich already. Just leave them be?
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THAT is appriopriate action, what is not appropriate is a rollback which would affect all players who've logged on in the past month.
LuckyGiant
Quote:
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Originally Posted by evilkingsky
but there's already some people who have made millions by selling duped items. even if everybody were to stop accepting armbraces as payment now, the dupers would be filthy rich already. Just leave them be?
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I'd go with a 2 day rollback to stop probably 95% of the duped items (since it became common knowledge on the the forums for a while duping probably increased dramatically since then compared with the small minority that were orginally doing it) This is a must imo, too many rare items etc wouldve been duped since by anyone who saw one of these threads otherwise.
Then since people thought they had got away with it (assuming we're at the point 2 days ago because of the rollback)
Hopefully theres some way to check for a sudden influx of 1000 ectosarmbraces or similar items on accounts as well as armbraces and start banning ...
Shadow of Light
*finally finishes reading thread*
Well, all I can say is that the duping (which has now been removed) alone won't stop me from playing GW. I hope Anet catches the culprits, but won't hold my breath. I don't imagine it'll be easy to catch them all--or prevent their return. So long as the innocent aren't punished along with the guilty, I'll continue enjoying GW. I'll just observe trades a little more carefully--but I've never been a big market player to begin with.
I'm really glad this got caught before GW:EN came out, though.
Well, all I can say is that the duping (which has now been removed) alone won't stop me from playing GW. I hope Anet catches the culprits, but won't hold my breath. I don't imagine it'll be easy to catch them all--or prevent their return. So long as the innocent aren't punished along with the guilty, I'll continue enjoying GW. I'll just observe trades a little more carefully--but I've never been a big market player to begin with.
I'm really glad this got caught before GW:EN came out, though.
Cacheelma
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Redfeather1975
We just shrugged it off in the end.
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See also: The Inquirer Spill.