Why have 25 heros to use 3 at a time?

An article i stumbled across, seemed fairly pertinent to the 7Hero demand.

http://www.massively.com/2007/11/28/...ehaving-badly/

Your missing a lot of the problem right there. Its not all about ease, success rate etc.

And of course its great Anet has given us 3 heroes already.
I must just add in here, people suggest stuff they think will improve the game. No one is saying Anet owes us X and Y. I think 7 heroes would improve the game thats why im posting in this thread.

So please dont misunderstand it to be about us demanding Anet gives us more content or whatever. This is just something a lot of people think will improve the game.

If people want to group for areas they can, no one here wants to stop that.
However limiting an area to just those is stupid. It doesnt make it any harder for those PuGing. It doesnt make it any easier if you allow solo players.

Your also suggesting that using 7 heroes makes the game easier again. Unless you are saying the process of finding a team is skillful....

1) You shouldnt have to arrange to play a game
2) This still doesnt solve it for people who go afk often
3) Still forcing people to PuG if they dont want to

The only way solo play willl be at the same level as PuGing is if the player can change all 8 builds.

That article nicely details one of the (many) reasons I don't play MMO's. The sad fact is that as gaming becomes more mainstream, it caters more and more to a previously non-gamer crowd. It's kind of interesting to me, though predictable, that while gaming is reaching more people than ever there are fewer and fewer games on the market worth playing (and they're getting harder and harder to find). I have this sense that in 10 years I'm going to be buying games almost exclusively from indie developers that still support SP play, because the mainstream will have gone completely to the "you must play with others all the time" model.

I'm actually including this because some think it is.

Likewise, it's something many think can and will kill it. Both sides have provided the same amount of evidence (further proof that ANet shouldn't do anything about it.)

Maybe it's ANet's gentle nudge to get you to play with people? I mean the areas *are* optional.

I won't deny that it makes it more convenient, and that is one of the most prominent reasons people use them.

As I've said before: If given the choice, most people would rather play with a group of people rather than a group of heroes for elite areas.

1) Yet a lot of people do (see: WoW.)
2) People will divide on what is the real problem here: The fact that you can't go AFK very often or the fact that you *do* go AFK very often. Of course RL > Games, others will think that you should limit what you have to do.
3) No ones forcing you to do the elite missions and they're not tied to any title.

This is very much like "need" in that the whole game is optional. You cant use it in an argument simply because everything is optional.

Convenient, more accessable etc thats one of the reasons behind this. But it certainly doesnt make the game easier. It just makes getting a team quicker.

Well right now people arent given a choice.
And if most people would choose to go with players...whats the harm in allowing solo players to access it as well?

Well WoW is a MMORPG and a whole different kettle of fish.
Lets skip past the point I wouldnt have purchased the game had it not said I could play solo.
So im in a PuG. I have to go afk for 15 mins.
1)Is that really fair on the other players in my group? Of course it isnt, these are other people trying to have fun in a game. Having to sit doing nothing for 15 mins because some selfish jackass joined your team then had to go afk isnt fun.
2)Are they going to sit around and wait for me? More than likely no, while people will wait for someone grabbing the phone or getting a quick drink no one wants to sit and wait for someone without even knowing when they will be back.

So pretty much without the ability to go solo I would be stuck trying to get a team that would wait for me, all the while ruining the game for others.
Again we fall into the murky waters of need, optional etc.
No one is forcing people to play the game at all. As it is, I very much enjoy GW. I would like to be able to play more of it. Adding 7 heroes would allow me to do that.

Do you need to do any of the elite missions before you can go onto the next? That is a negative. In terms of progressing the game, and progression being one of the satisfying aspects of the game to many, they are not essential.

Right now? To avoid mass QQing. It's not like normal areas where the builds you can bring are pretty open, elite areas can often require very strict builds, a role henchmen can't really provide. Besides that I've already stated the reason.

Due to the way most people play through an elite mission (especially Urgoz and the Deep,) it's actually more similar to a raid in WoW. The comparison is safer than you'd think.

1) What is it that called you to have to go afk for 15 minutes?
2) I think a guild group wouldn't mind, but a PUG group probably would. Repeated instances like this, however, might annoy them.

I play maple story now and its completely free and solo-able, and it has a market for trading!!!

Maple Story = Win

Guild Wars = fail.

Bye bye Arena Net, your game used to be fun.

having at least 2 of each proffesion makes it easier to do different builds =] so yeah i dont complain

Playing solo is exactly what you can do, except for a few after beating the game things.
You can even play real solo with good builds.
Btw. didn't Anet make Slavers Exile so you can h+h it?
Takes some time, but it can be done.

You can make everyone happy, but you can't make everyone happy all the time. It is risky to try to make decisions that appeal to all players equally. Don't fall into the trap of making decisions based on what causes the least amount of pain, because this can lead to a game that is just kind of "okay" and doesn't really excite anybody.
This includes the importance to keep something "elite".
If everything in a mmo gets casual it just wont survive.
With this I mean, there always will need to be the unreachable looking goal, without it its just another 'play for weekend don't care after' type of game.


As for the Heroes, I got another question for you.
What if Anet never introduced heroes at all, since players where able to play throughout Prophecies and Factions without them?

Not to offend, but the graphics looks like they are made for someone in kindergarten.

The we would have had endless threads saying "improve the hench AI", "let me change my hench's skills", "let me customise my henches". They would have been added anyway because Anet couldn't deny the hench AI sucked any longer.

But even without heroes, people would still have used AI to the same extent. This idea that heroes killed PUGs is nonsense. Its the rude and arrogant behaviour and the LONG, LONG, LONG times to form PUGs that put people off.

I spent ages in GWEN last night getting a party for a dungeon because everyone was doing the other ones and by the time we got in and did it, it was midnight and I had to sleep.

Thats why peopl run to heroes and henches.

More like Pre-K:




.

Agreed. NPCs don't kill PUGs, people kill PUGs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smile Like Umean It So why is this one 23 pages and still going?

Out of my jurisdiction. I've been asking myself the same question though.

I don't get why they are stuck at a middle ground:
1. Give more heroes and make players able to equip 7.
2. Take out heroes, or give some sort of bonus or incentive for players to play with other people. I am aware of the better drop (still not sure if it's just because you are seeing more items being dropped), but when you are going for a mish or quest, you aren't really going for the mods. Saving time on mish + quest = more time to farm or w/e you do to make gold.

I'd prefer more people-to-people interaction, but it's quite hard to do in an instanced game and there is also the pug skillbars....

As our loyal hero companions, let us use them to carry, let's say, 5 items each?
There's no use for so many heroes, there's no point in given them all good equipment and runes. It'd be sweet if each hero could carry 5 or 2 or 1 item for us (not weapons, which they can already carry if you like juggling stuff around)

Make all heroes useful, give us a reason to have all the heroes unlocked, give us Hero-Storage! ^^

oh, I though this was the make-a-wish-thread.

if people don't want to use 7 heroes can carry on using 3.
i personally play GW as a casual player and find it hard gettin into pugs anyway.....so the hero limitation just means i have to use hench.
i would love to be able to make my own builds.....i 'm constantly workin on the best 3 hero build....it's what makes gw fun to me.
heroes = best thing about GW compared to other mmorpgs.
buildwars rules

Yes, they did, and they aren't thanked often enough for it by folks like me. I really appreciate that they did that in GWEN. In general I'm quite happy with Anet's design decisions, and in threads like this one I (and I suspect most of those like me) don't really want to come off as hostile to Anet. This is a really great game, I wouldn't care enough to participate in 20-something page threads about what could be done to make it that little bit better for me if it weren't.

Elite missions and HM are after-the-fact bonus content. I acknowledge that. I don't think I have a "right" to that content, necessarily. It would, however, be awfully nice to have the option to take a run at it with a full hero party. To be honest, I'd be happy with it if elite areas and HM were the only places you could get a full hero party. We aren't asking them to make it easy for us, it'd just be nice if solo players had a shot at these areas.

With DoA, FoW and the UW, you just need one other buddy. FoW and UW are actually relatively breezy if you and your partner know what's up and how to set up your builds.

After the slight nerf to DoA for NM people, it's actually been pretty playable with 6 heroes. Pretty cool, but can at times be a pain in the ass.

I've seen *a* group beat the Deep with either 9 heroes 3 people or 4 people 8 heroes, don't remember.

As fish said, we would just have a whole lot more improve the hench threads. Better AI, better skill bars, changeable skill bars etc.

I fully agree, I think GW is a great game. If it wasnt I would just leave.


The problem with that is you still need another player.
One thats on at the same time as you, one thats ok with you going afk for 15-20 mins at a time.

This is one of the main reasons I want 7 heroes, because in my 2 years playing I havent found anyone who fits in with me.
Heroes are there whenever I need them, they are happy to wait while I go afk.

But due to that I miss out on parts of the game. Having 7 heroes would change that.

Yes!

I hate PUGs because my (limited) expereince with them has been abysmal. Playing with guildies, or PvP, is the main way most people multi-player this game. Otherwise, in PvE, most people hench, or H&H. I H&H because I started with Nightfall. I was introduced to the use of heroes - first 1, then another, then a 3rd (the max). I liked NF, so I bought Factions and was frustrated by not having heroes! Henchmen only sucked, and real people (PUGs) were just nothing but frustration and a waste of time. I wanted to move forward, at my own pace, and unlock skills and uncover more regions, etc. I love creating characters, and try to base my choices on that rather than fitting someone else's skillbar set because that's THE build to use here. Sometimes, I get wiped - my choices don't work. Other times, I do things that work but aren't in wiki - because usually, I haven't advanced far enough in the game to have those skills for a particular build and have to make the best from what I have.

If the incentive is to get players to play with other people, then have the rewards greater the more real people are in a group! That might make PUGs worth joining.

Heroes, I think, were created because people were frustrated with crappy AI henchmen. Henchmen were created to flesh out gaps in a Team for which you couldn't find a human player. The idea was to make real players a better choice than a henchman! But, in reality, sometimes henchmen are more effective than a human player. (Take a Mes, for example. Fun to play - and hard to master! For interrupts, the AI is faster, though it will not use them intelligently. A human chooses better, but is slower.)

7 heroes would be less effective, perhaps, than an 8-man real human team. But, as others have said, getting together with a good group - aside from a guild - takes a lot of time and effort. And even then, you have to play what someone else wants you to play, not what you want to try.

7 heroes would not unbalance the game. (Certainly not as bad as UB has!) If that were a real concern, ANet could certainly adjust the difficulty of the instance - the more Heroes you bring, the harder the region becomes.

Plus, they could make the quests to unlock heroes harder. Make recruiting a Hero more of a reward, like a unique item, or certain skills in Prophecies. You had to quest to get the skill, item, whatever.

I love the suggestion that the Hero be accessable across all characters on an account. I have the same problem of remembering "Now, wait - which Zhed has the 20/20 Adept Fire Staff? What bow does Margrit have for this character?"

And, too, Heroes are a bit like collecting armor: you outfit them to look cool with you! LOL

Rewarding people for Pugging will not help.

Some people just dont have time to PuG.
They play at odd times.
They go afk often.
Some people just dont want to play with random players.

A lot of people, no matter what, will not join a PuG. If all solo play was removed they would just quit the game. So trying to suggest rewards for pugging over improving the solo system isnt something that would work.

Rewarding players for teaming up together would be a step in the right direction IMO (somone mentioned City of Heroes as an example some time ago), it would however not resolve the basic issues that players have with PUGs but would go a ways to alleviating them.


One thing that would need to be fixed before introducing rewards would be things like Ursan Blessing though. If teaming up ment rewards then all people would do is team up with UB players and such and play (care)Bear.

...

In maplestory you get bonus XP rewards for being in a party.

Ok the graphics might not be great, but its a far better MMORPG then GW is (Zomg, it has a market where you can merchant your stuff to other players).

I simply dont find any fun in anything in GW now, especially after dishonour ruined RA.

Also, when you unlock a new hero in GW, you get a message... 'You can now add ....... to your party if it isnt full'. My party isnt full when its only 4/8, why cant I add the hero then?

But can someone please give me a serious reason why we are forced to use henchmen with shit skill bars to fill up the rest of our party? NF has a great mesmer henchmen oh yes (I always use mesmer hench in Factions and sometimes in GWEN where they have ok skills).

In NF we have this: http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Odurra

And people wonder why mesmers are so underated in this game lol.

Its becauise we dont have 7 heroes yet and we want them maybe?

Yeh, another "OMG, I want a single player Guild Wars game because I lack any in game friends probably because I am such a horrible person that lacks all form of personality and I am better then everyone else, give me my freedoms ANET or I will not buy GW2" thread.

/movingrightalong

Rahja is perfect example of why people don't want to PUG- too many retards

Yep, I certainly am retarded. Go go person stabs. Your so cool.

Guild Wars is a multiplayer game, learn to be social, even if it is in a gaming environment and not in real life.

AN advertised GW as a game where you can play solo, so shove your little "its multi"
Want to be social? Go out with your friends IRL... if you have any. I play GW because I want to play GW, not train my social skills

Fail less next time

Every game ought to be 100% solo play. MMORPG's ruined the RPG genre by forcing us to have to play with others. Playing allongside others is fine, playing with nubs like Rahja however just kills my brain.

I dont need to socialise in my games, I have real friends.

You can play solo, so.... I will have to say, lol...NO.

Hero/Hench. Go right ahead, play solo. Have fun. No 7 Heroes for you though, EVER.


I don't play with people that insult me, and I don't recall playing with you ever. Nor do I recall seeing you post very often here. Thus, you are now being /shovedtotheside. Enjoy your corner.

Oh, and MMORPGs are a new genre, they are not RPGs. Massive MULTIPLAYER ONLINE Role Playing Game. I think you just misunderstood what MMO stood for. You have been corrected.

Yay, progress- from "GW is multi" to "GW is solo but you won't get 7 heroes".
Next stop- from "no 7 heroes for you" to "ok, you can have 11 heroes"

No, you may have 3 heroes, yourself, and 4 henchmen, for a total of 8 players. You may not now, nor ever have 7 heroes, so stop asking. It went from a single thread into a collection of bitchfests. Riverside doesn't like you, it wants to let you know, you make its tummy hurt.

1) I dont play with idiots like you anyway

2) Because i am better at the game then you, and everyone else that actually 'needs' to pug for whatever reason.

3) I dont see you post around here often, so ummmm, you suck too. Ok. bye, GTFO of this thread troll.

And to enlighten you as to who I am, heres a nice picture for you.


Shot at 2007-09-18

Heres a definition for multiplayer for the troll:

A multiplayer game is a video game in which more than one person can play the same game at the same time. ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiplayer_game

It says 'can' play. It doesnt say 'forced' to play with others.

Oh, and I do find some other nice pro players like myself to play with, but its too hard looking for them everytime I want to vanquish:



<--- this was a player stuck on Eternal Grove for a long time, I teamed up with her and cleared it first time around.

and, you just epic failed... lololol. I am not going to get into a popularity game with you, haha. that is awesome man, GJ on your titles, obviously you are seeking attention.

Thing is, I am not selfish and I possess a great community spirit (up to a point)

Rather then post titles I have (I would love to as well, but I am banned for....another...oh....3xx hours, so meh.

I don't PUG very often by the way, just when someone needs some help. I have a guild of great friends I play with, who are treated as equals. So scrooge, I advise you /shoo.

For more info, see the following:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Ascal...asquerade_Ball
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Oktoberfest
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10144641
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10198318
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10078234
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10037943
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10037508


So, in the spirit of kindness, I suggest you not call me an idiot. Thanks.

Oh, and last I checked, having the ability to use only 3 heroes didn't alter the programming so you can't use Henchmen. So, your not forced to do anything, including play the game.
Keep check on the triple posting, there is an edit feature.

The more you post, the more of an Idiot you appear to be. And you are banned because? Your an idiot maybe? You just make yourself look worse and worse, and obviously sound like, as mad king thorn would say, an oxymoron.

Bhavv,

You aren't a pro. Pro's do not bash others.

Rahja posts here all the time, please look at his title under his name.

Pro's do not show off like you are doing.

Pro's understand what they are, you do not.

-----

Back to topic now folks..

Open the links bud, all I have to say. Cheers to your foul attitude. Have a cookie.

Why buy an MMO to play alone? And we already discussed how much of the game is soloable. Everywhere except elite areas, and that's it, unless you suck.

Flame less please.