Why have 25 heros to use 3 at a time?

(Merged by Dralspire)

I suppose if you would of said the game can not physically allow 7 heroes then stupid people like me would of not bothered asking, anyways thanks for the response.

I agree with this. I've always thought of Heroes as an extention of myself and how I play, if I could have 7 of them I would be invincible and never play with any other players. Might just as well play an offline game like Baldur's Gate if you want to play THAT solo.

What I like to do with my heroes is goto old mission areas and help people get through them with my excellent builds. Thirsty River is my favorite my heroes rock there. With 7 heroes I wouldn't have incentive to do that so much since I'd probably turn totally anti-social like the rest who want 7 heroes.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10166467
"the primary reason for not making a chance is that the team does not want to disincent someone from playing in a party with other people" - Gaile


http://guildwars.incgamers.com/forum...9&postcount=72
"All the encouragement in the universe isn't going to magically create other players in the empty outposts." - ChaoticCoyote

Too late, PuGs do MORE than enough to disincentivise players from grouping with other players.

I wonder if Anet ever thought of doing it this way, continue to have the first three heros under the control of the player, but the last four heros are equiped like henchies are, thus the AI would control them. That would solve the clutter problem in the interface, it would solve the allowence to use seven heros for players.

Given that the use of henchies with heros, being henchies are premade heros, and given that you still have pugs even with that system in place. The argument not to allow it is stupid, because it has been there the whole time, and players still form pug groups for areas based on the fact that you get better drops with real players and that is the motivation to play in pugs or wait around to form blanced pugs to play with, for missions, quest, ect.

So Gaile, if you are reading the comments, then take this suggestion into consideration, and pass it along to the development team. Allow the players to equip seven heros, however the first 3 they can control, but the last 4 are controled in the same way hench men would be controled. The arguement that it will destroy pugs is invalid because the system already existes, except the players can not change the premade skill sets in the hench men, then new system would allow them to customize the hench man, buy allowing their heros to take there place.

To me much of the incentive to not play with other players happened when Nightfall came out. I made it through many missions with just henchies before heroes though, heroes just made things A LOT EASIER. Before Hard Mode I couldn't believe how easy it was to play in Prophecies with heroes, now with HM it's even easier. I don't even have to play many places I can go with just three heroes and they can do all the fighting and I never have to lift a finger except to point in the direction we went and pickup my loot.

That's another thing we sure could use an auto pickup loot button. It's a pain in my butt (laziness lol) to have to pick up every piece everytime there is a battle. Something like a pickup loot button within earshot and your character goes around and picks everything up without having to press the button and click on every item every time. PEASE!!

I think we've got enough disincentives already, thanks. =\ My own, admittedly limited, experiences, already include the mending wammo, the sin using dash + unsuspecting strike as a PULL tactic, An R/E using Aura of Restoration + a bar full of skills (no spells. at all.), rangers who set traps and then stand IN FRONT OF THEM *facepalms*...

Given the trouble I had with PUG's just doing the bonus on The Frost Gate, my endgame future looks grim...

I made it through Prophesies with henchmen. I made it through Factions with henchmen. I made it through Nightfall with heroes and henchmen. I reckon I can make it through Eye of the North with heroes and henchmen.

Would it be nice to have a 7 hero team? Yes, I believe it would. Is it mandatory to have that team? No. Though I do not agree with the reasons stated by ANet for not allowing 7 heroes, I do respect their decision. It is, after all, their game.

I have a great idea to make people play with people again.

Make a title!

Give points for every mission/ quest completed with a full team of players.
I myself think that heroes are the WORST thing that ever happened to Guild Wars.

It isn't a design choice to keep balance. It was an arbitrary constant number that, at the time of its inception, was high enough for PvE yet low enough for PvP (you'll remember that both modes allowed 3 heroes originally). It has nothing to do with PvE merits alone. PvP's heroes got restricted even further so this arbitrary number of 3 heroes for PvE now ends up being completely random. 3 heroes isn't some magic number that keeps the laws of the universe running smoothly. Stop trying to claim that.

Anet refuses to make the switch because they wouldn't have a damn clue how to adjust the flagging system to allow for more heroes (hint: allow us to set up groups of party members under each flag instead of having one for each damn character), and are otherwise unwilling to put forth the time to make the change. (The latter point I can respect, as time = money.) That's all there is to it.

"Disconnect with logic" is such a lame thing to say. "Logic" tells me that with loot scaling, farm code that supposedly doesn't exist anymore (although The Halcyon Job quest somehow stops giving me gold armor drops if I do that quest for hours on end), and a full party of WHOEVER dividing up drops to keep individual wealth gain to a minimum, it shouldn't matter how easy or hard the game is made with heroes, hench, or human players. You can 4-man probably 95% of the game if you wanted to. The game was originally designed to support the creativity of builds, team or individual. Allowing only three heroes and forcing the use of pathetic henchmen restricts that.

Allowing more heroes per party wouldn't shorten the grind for those precious titles. It may make people more interested in actually working towards them, if they were allowed to do it their way (custom team build) and not Anet's way (3 heroes and constant hench builds). Surely the great and powerful Anet has to realize that their henchmen limits just how creative a player's team build can be, and that, over time, using the same build gets really boring? People who worry about balance or difficulty leniency allowing more heroes would cause could always choose to just use less heroes (like before). It's not hard to add your own difficulty to the game.

Mhenlo sucks. I'm sick of seeing him. Tell him to go the hell away. Same for Devona and anyone else that has been around for 2 years. After all these years, Ascalon is still a decrepit shithole. Shouldn't they be home trying to, you know, actually rebuild the place? If we're going to be forced to use henchmen, at least put different ones in different areas and give us a hell of a lot more variety in what choices we have to pick from. Why are there human henchmen in a Norn area anyways?

I don't respect Anet's decision, but I can certainly live with it (as I've had no other choice). I feel that this is one way in which Guild Wars fails to meet its potential, however. I am a bit disgusted that Anet refuses to even compromise on this issue and allow the use of one more hero (thus giving us more heroes than henchmen). I am a bit disgusted that Anet refuses to even have a 'test' of more allowed heroes and get community opinions afterwards.

They maybe would if they read the suggestion. I absolutely hate the reason 'it is not within the game mechanics to use 7 heroes' when we can already use 3 heroes and 4 hench, or 6 heroes with 2 people 6 heroes and one rage quit

Allow us to use the last four heroes as henchmen i.e. without flags

Could Gaile possibly read this suggestion and tell us why it is not within the games mechanics when it can already be done?

The first 3 heroes can be added as usuall, with the 1-3 buttons and flags, the remaining four can be added as henchmen without the number buttons next to their names and rely fully on AI. I.E. monks are fine without micromanagement (I always use hench monks in NF + GWEN preview), The Elly nukers would be fine on their own, then in slots 1-3 you place your Barrage spike with their interupts on manual cast and Morgahn with Charge + Fallback on manual cast (I use Charge + fallback when exploring, 8% away from GMC, also in time restrained missions and challenges like Dragons Throat + Nundu Bay)

Again could Gaile please read this and tell me why it is against the mechanics of the game plz plz pretty plz?

-typo corrected-

bold, underline, font size 75.

Or I wonder if its possible to PM my post directly to her or the development team. I really want to know why it is against the games mechanics (We all know it isnt except for the people that make the game lol)

Obviously Gaile has stopped reading this thread because the people above her at A-hole-net have said it cant be done.

I also just remembered - One of the reasons we were given before by Gaile on why it cant be done was because every one would solo and not pug anymore. Then in threads on solo farming and playing, gaile says 'We have nothing against people that choose to play the game solo'.

If someone could find and quote those two posts it would make my day.

And when you max it, you can't display in HoM? That sort of title?

I can kind of understand why ANet doesn't want us to have an all-hero party. Guild Wars is turning (badly) into a single-player game as PUGs don't seem to get any better in all this time. Contrary to some of the threads on here, I think that Guild Wars can definitely be very challenging in places, which is why you can't rely on random players. You can't tell what you're going to get: A super-hardcore pro, a complete idiot, or somebody in between.

Had the game been truly easy, then you would see funny builds like mending wammos and nobody would say anything. But because you can die if people aren't thinking the same way as you, people just rely on heroes and henchmen as they never get tired, don't rage quit, and don't mind if you take a break in the middle of an explorable area. While heroes/henchmen aren't perfect, they are consistent in their behavior, and that's the thing people want.

I think that Hard Mode should be the dividing line. If you're playing in Hard Mode, there's almost nobody in town that wants to group up with you. And I'm in a large alliance, but what if you only get to play after 9pm, when most normal people with day jobs need to logout? In other words, in Hard Mode, we should be able to run with full hero teams if we want--especially in the hardest missions where great builds and great players are almost mandatory.

It just takes one amateur player to screw up an entire mission in Hard Mode. Last night, for the fourth time in the last month, I went with a PUG to do a HM mission only to find out that somebody didn't even have an Elite Skill in his skillbar. And people that do this don't do it to be funny or be a griefer; they honestly think that no Elite Skill could possibly make their character better, or they are too lazy to cap any good Elites or buy any skills so they can't run a decent build.

^^ I agree with this. My problem is that no one plays HM, just enable 7 heroes for HM. NM stay the same because it is easy enough with henchies, I dont care.

That would suffice ot solve the larger problem, I think, and is perhaps a compromise we can all agree to.

Meh, they can fix that anytime they want. They probably want to make statues for each title, so let them.

the only time i play with real players is in elite missions, for the rest of the missions 3 heros+ 4 henchs are better than any pug, if they remove the limit on the number of heros it wont have any impact i still will play the same way.
off topic, dungeons in eotn were pretty easy i was hoping they werent henchable

Thats because of how much better the henchmen are in GWEN.

So by having 7 heroes you really want to have PvE easier. Amazing. Also why do people oppose this idea suck? Because you dislike it? It seems to me that people who are oppose to this find that you can play GW currently just fine, meaning they have no problems with the heroes\henchmen system. So they must be decent! But since that, your reasoning and logic by saying that they suck doesn't mix, so try again.

The monk henchmen in Cantha are fine for normal mode. I don't really see any problem with them other than there bars that could help fixing but for just GW, it works fine. Although to be blunt I think you don't want to use the time to get any better at GW.

No, people that oppose this idea Either dont play hero/hench, and or dont play HM.

Even if you do oppsose it, how would allowing other players to use 7 heroes if they choose to use them affect your gameplay at all? It wouldnt. Its more selfish then just outright opposing the idea.

The Henchmen in cantha ARE FINE FOR NORMAL MODE Of course they are, but they are not fine for HM

Are you ****ing kidding me? I have been trying to get Gaurdian of Cantha for several months now. I Either cannot find enough people or keep failing on the harder missions because henchmen suck. Get a life and stop critisising people that realise henchmen skillbars are terrible. If you think the henchmen are fine, you are a crap player.

So I'm an exception? I must be rare, also since when HM first came out people started to say that heroes\henchmen through HM is fine too.

How about the fact that allowing 7 heroes makes henchmen obsolete for the reason they are put there?

Ahh, so its henchmen are bad for HM. What a turn of events! So henchmen are fine for normal mode, but since they were made BEFORE HM(like zomg) people are crying that heroes\henchmen system doesn't work in HM? Did PvE become so much harder?! But maybe you are right, although they should just make the henchmen bar's better like they have done in GW:EN.

Hmm, seems you've added a bit. But you really seem fired up, and i've already said that there bars could need some help. Want me to repeat it for you? I like your internet insults though, they make me warm and fuzzy even though you are really trying to hurt me inside.

So you don't have any friends to help you or guild mates if you have a guild for last several months? It also only takes two people with heroes, and it hasn't happened in several months? Damn....

We've been complaining about henchies since Prophecies. ANet eventually made a few changes there, not dramatic but they did change it a bit.

The henchies we have now in Nightfall and GW:EN are good enough for me. Full heroes? Think that will never happen myself.

Well, there will be plenty of complaing to go around untill it does happen.

I took heroes and hench all the way round the three continents. Me (SF), hero interupter, hero MM, A.N. Other Hero, 4 henchies. It's possible in all the missions and areas except for a few in Cantha, where you need humans because the AI (and not the builds) won't cut it. But generally the henchies are okay, especially if you are just looking for meat shields. 7 heroes wouldn't have helped me in the places I couldn't do by myself (Boreas, Eternal Grove). Things may be worse if you're not a backline caster, though, as I found Factions (but not NF) was a nightmare on a Sin in even NM.

It seems we're not going to get 7 heroes, and I don't agree with the justifications Anet have given, but as I've said previously, decent henchies in Prophecies would suit me fine.

(PS in case you're wondering, Dzagonur took me 19 hours before I beat it in HM.)

I really love people telling me I'm a crap player even if it's indirectly aimed as a blanket statement. If you're SMART and not in a HURRY and know what you're doing, even in HM? Henchmen are just fine. BUT!!! Even I'll admit, you cannot control certain aspects of them OR heroes! Here, let me explain. Because they're not a Player, their priorities on skill usage is totally random. Their targeting, totally random at best times. Yeah you can even see this when their Kiting AI kicks in when they're approaching low health and all they do is run around no matter how many times you re-flag them.

Heroes or Henchmen, will NEVER take the place of REAL players. You're kidding yourself if you think they can or will. Yes, even I use heroes and henchmen a lot because to be honest, with my heroes having runes, insignias, good weapons, they're better fit than 70% of the players I meet in PuG's. Which is why I stopped going PuG's totally. People in general don't care and are at best lazy and careless in their play style. Which is not good when you're on a Timed Mission, HM or anything that requires some actually tactical thinking.

So while the argument may be why not have 7 heroes? There is the other why? Because they're still not as good as Human players and you can already make some insane builds after GW:EN's initial release. Try going into HB with 3 Mesmers and a Monk. I can think of some rather nasty builds to use this way. So no, I think having only 3 heroes is enough, even though I personally wouldn't mind being able to use 7. I just realize that it's just not needed. And to be totally honest, HM was not meant to be Hero/Henched all the way through. It was meant to add a much more difficult challenge and get you working as a TEAM with other players to get it done.

This is my two cents worth!

You laugh at and call other people noobs, yet you run holy haste. Nothing more really needs to be said about that, especially given the age or maturity of the products of withdrew-too-late syndrome.

Anet has already said we won't get seven heroes but in addition to it probably being 'too dificult' here's two more reasons in my opinion:

1) Seven heroes are overkill for PvE as they're much more coordinated, able to react faster than, and generally lord over most players even with their limitations and flaws. You know the Hench/Hero/Enemy A.I.'s strengths, weaknesses, and in most cases you also know their builds as well. If you can't accomplish something with these static factors then you need to accept the reality that you're not as good as you think you are and step up your game or ask for help.

Which begs the question are the people asking for more heroes too proud or too embarrassed to ask someone to help them? Could you really suck so hard at GW that you need an even greater advantage than your personal 4 man wrecking crew?

2) An MMO or online game that has lost it's social factor is beyond dead. More controllable heroes would be perfect if GW1 went offline/public, but then GW2 sales would most likely suffer.

3) I need food. Peace.

Would you rather a monk with Holy Haste or a monk with Lightning Orb? Like he said, people just fill in random skills to fill the skill bar.

You are plain stupid and obviously cant, or cant be bothered to read anything.

You cannot beat Eternal Grove, Unwaking Waters and Vizunah square with just two people on HM. Why dont you go try it? Obviously because your too noob for HM.

With 7 heroes, at least two people could complete Vizunah Square and Unwaking waters from entering from both sides. I have every other HM mission completed except these three, Tyria only took me 4 days to complete on HM, and I havnt bothered with elona yet.

Believe me I found *Enough pugs* wanting to do the missions, but they just got kicked after pinging their bars (worse then the henchmen) At most I only got 3 guildies for HM missions in an active guild with 90+ members.

1) Turn on HM and try make a group of 8 human players. Untill you have tried it stop posting BS. It is practically impossible to create a decent H/H group with 4 henchmen from Tyria and Cantha.

2) GW is not dead, the social factor is still there via Guild and Alliance chat. Pug is dead because the majority of pugs are lame.

3) Adding 7 heroes will actually get more people playing PVE in GW, because it is a lot more enjoyable then using henchies or idiots.

i dunno about you guys but i like GW's just the way it is. people who find using only 3 heroes retarded just lost connection to the game, its called their are other people out there to play with.

dont change the game.

I would love to take a full team of heros since now with GWEN we have too many of them.
I took the earth hench in GWEN and got the ward against foes, and instead its against element.

/signed for full team of heros.

Seriously, they can't use the (rather overpowered) PvE skills anyway.

Just give us 7 already. It's not the end of multiplayer PvE by a long shot.

Nah it's not harder. Finding that one build that'll help steamroll the area is a little harder, I'll admit, but after that it's smooth sailin'.

That's actually a pretty good point, especially with GW:EN on the way.

The reason I'd like, not want, to have a full team of heroes is because it's just more personal. That's all. I've already stated my reasons for it not happening, though, so in no way is my breath being held.

I usually end takin the same heros all the time, cause, lets face it....the henchies need a skillbar makeover. So i rarely get to enjoy my other heros.

If you like playing the game the way it is, you can carry on playing it the way it is. The majority of players however dont like being limited to only 3 heroes and would like to use 7.

@bhavv: it is entirely possible to beat prophecies in HM with H/H. Factions is harder due to the timed requirement for masters and some of the extra-mission requirements in Luxon/Kurzick territory, but a good guild can supplement those...but Vizunah is H/Hable if you start with the monk. Norgu and Razah(instead of the MMbomber) make it doable, but still very hard to finish in time.

I didn't stop PuGing because of newbies who have bad builds. I like newbies; I gave them advice on their builds all the time, and if my guild had newbies, the ping build feature would make it real easy to build a backline nowadays. I stopped PuGing because every other group seemed to be either led by a very rude person on an e-power trip or was wiped by the actions of that same person who refused to listen to advice. Even the groups I formed became infested by people with no awareness of sportsmanship or manners. They hid behind their avatars to experiment with every vulgarity the language filters would let slip through, perpetrate any misconduct the game would allow (that their parents, teachers and bosses would not permit them to indulge in RL), and in general make my gaming experience less fun.

Because I am not their toy, I stopped letting them treat me so.

IMO, people will continue to shun PuGs and regular grouping outside PvP until/unless there is an active and effective way to report EULA offenders. That means real time access to GMs, something that other MMOs have, but GW may not be able to afford with its business model or use real time with its current server setup.

Because PuGs are less than desirable for people to use in a loosely protected game world, many people try to finish as much of the game as possible with heroes and henchmen before burdening their guildmates with the tougher missions and areas. They avoid one of the chief ways to interact with other players, choosing to run by themselves or only with those whose reputation is proven and actions are monitored...by officers and GLs. As people get used to running by themselves, they do it more, become confident in their own abilities and less confident in others who are asking for help (because, after all, they did it; why can't the other person?).

Until there are active mods in GW that players can report reprehensible behavior to (and by reporting, feel safer) most players will avoid playing with each other in favor of heroes and guild teams (tbh, a good guild team can often be no more than 2 people with well specced heroes).

Even alone though, half a good team is better than one total jerk (and if you don't believe that, look how many people PuG with you).

So...if better GMs are not an option, I /sign the inclusion of heroes from 3 to 7. Will it make the game easier? Of course. But it will at least give people more awareness of how skills work together; teach them build design, not just character design, and improve overall play experience for people who--frankly--do not want to play with each other.

PS: sry bhavv. yeah, you need more than one person to play Vizunah. I was thinking of Nuaphai er whatever

Well, let's be honest guys. 90-95% of missions are already easy even with henchies. Adding Heroes would really only make the process funner.

Yet the mechanic already exists, heroes can already act like henches as evidenced by the people running two accounts to add 3 additional heroes to their team. I don't see how a redesign is necessary when the functionality is already there.

I also believe Anet is exaggerating the impact this change would have. For example the Mind Blast build Cynn is currently using in GW:EN is really not that bad, the same thing goes for Mhenlo who's now using LoD. You can improve the build (for example in Hard Mode I'd really want Mhenlo to use Protective Spirit instead of Vigorous Spirit, and Cynn could be running Rodgort's Invocation on that Mind Blast build) but that doesn't mean I'm suddenly going to kill things twice as fast with those changes. The extra customization from runes and weapons will just make the build a little more efficient for people that are willing to invest time in upgrading their heroes. You'd be surprised how many people don't even bother to give their heroes runes or weapons or spend time tweaking their builds, and now that GW:EN henches are better than ever I suspect the new heroes won't even be used by most people.