Why have 25 heros to use 3 at a time? - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

YunSooJin

Pyromaniac

Join Date: Aug 2005

Mo/W

30 Aug 2007 at 14:23 - 281

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

I never said there arent better builds available, but warriors arent my speciality, My point with that build post was to reply to someone that said 'Whats wrong with Gash and sever artery', not to say 'OMG THIZ IZ LYK TEH BESt WAMMO SK1LLZ EVA 1111!'

Also PUG's are anything but social. The usuall Pug is a case of a random invite. When you ask about skills all they say is 'GO'.... Can we just Go? Go Go Go! Can we Go now?'

Then after you start playing, endure breasts and genitalia on the mini map and get caned:

'OMG your a noob' <Rage Quit>.

Its hardly how I want to spend my time enjoying GW.

If the argument that we should be allowed to use 7 heroes because we don't like playing with noobs is your argument, I think you should find someone else to champion it.

For the record, your sword build is terrible. Also, Dwayna's Kiss bends Orison over backwards.

Patrick Smit

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2006

NiTe

30 Aug 2007 at 14:34 - 282

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamRunner

So you do want the luxury. And it seems that the 3 heroes don't satisfy you. Also you want PvE easier than it already is. Not to mention you want a whole build to ravage through everything. I find this pretty selfish, and not only that because it seems that you don't want something that is challenging.

Not everyone is enjoying or waiting to torture himself to spend time with others. Some want to have the luxury to go AFK and be slow, go and test builds etc.

It is selfish to prohibit these possibilities cause u would like to see them PUG instead, and think that yopu might be able to promote that by denying 7 heroes. Guess what, most people will just do with 3 heroes and 4 henchies. Why do you care if some goes solo or with henchies and heroes, its a freaking game. if u like challenge you dont go and play PvE, you go and play PvP.

Qual

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2005

Denmark, Karup.

[PuG]

W/E

30 Aug 2007 at 14:38 - 283

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick Smit

if u like challenge you dont go and play PvE, you go and play PvP.

WRONG !!! Hard mode is there for a challenge, and last time I checked it was PvE... Not everyone like the kind of challenge PvP offers...

Nabru Yar

Academy Page

Join Date: Jan 2006

E/

30 Aug 2007 at 14:40 - 284

good gawd! to each his/her own playing style-- there is no 'right' way.

Personally, I think it's cool that we have the choice between heroes/hench and PuG's (my preference being heroes/hench).

bhavv

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2006

30 Aug 2007 at 14:55 - 285

Quote:

Originally Posted by YunSooJin

Also, Dwayna's Kiss bends Orison over backwards.

You dont say, thats kind of like why its already on my bar.

YunSooJin

Pyromaniac

Join Date: Aug 2005

Mo/W

30 Aug 2007 at 14:55 - 286

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nabru Yar

good gawd! to each his/her own playing style-- there is no 'right' way.

Personally, I think it's cool that we have the choice between heroes/hench and PuG's (my preference being heroes/hench).

I would argue that there is a 'right' way.

The 'right' way is to win. Winning is everyone's end goal. Or would you disagree and tell me losing is your goal instead?

If you win, you progress. If you win, you get drops, if you win, you get titles. You want to win, therefore you do what you can to increase your chances of winning. That includes realizing that Quivering Blade is a retarded skill, and Orison is the worst direct heal in the game.

Dougal Kronik

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2005

Ontario, Canada

Glengarry Fencibles

R/

30 Aug 2007 at 14:56 - 287

I would like the option of 7 Heros.

The you could have all players, PUG's, heros and hench for those that don't have all skills, and last all heros.

Plus my heros look damn good and I like them to each have a pet. Nothing better than a group of pets charging down the enemy.

ChaoticCoyote

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2006

Florida, USA

Imperial Order of the Iguana [IGGY]

R/

30 Aug 2007 at 15:15 - 288

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

It's pretty much a lose-lose situation. The way Guild Wars is set up requires you to have a party for every single area in the game, and with the newer expansions, 95% of them require 8 people. The fact that you need 8 people for a large majority of the game is, in my opinion, a worse design decision.

This is probably why this is being changed in GW2, having encounters/missions based around party-size.

Yes!

Area difficulty should be scaled to group size. That COMPLETELY eliminates the entire problem. People who want to group can; people who want to solo can.

I *like* to play with other people; I've said that oevr and over again.

BUT I CAN'T PLAY WITH PEOPLE WHEN THERE ARE NO PEOPLE TO PLAY WITH.

The game is to big and too diverse to expect people to find someone to play with in every possible situation at any time.

I am not anti-social; I simply want to play the game.

DreamRunner

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2006

W/

30 Aug 2007 at 15:17 - 289

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChaoticCoyote

It's this sort of response that drives people like me away from the GW community.

Adding full hero parties will not decrease the challenge. If I want challenge, I'll play on Hard Mode with a PuG -- now that's a challenge! Or I'd play more PvP.

And here's a surpising fact: NOT EVERYONE PLAYS THE GAME FOR CHALLENGE.

See, there's this thing called "Story", and another thing called "fun" that may have NOTHING TO DO with "challenge." Some folk, like my wife, just want to play through the story and see the pretty artwork. She's a valid, paying customer of three chapters; how does her casual approach hurt anyone?

Allowing full hero parties in no way affects your game. So why restrict us? Just to feed your ego?

This is so good! A mod just deleted a bunch of posts and now people are posting again.

First of all, I can't even fathom on how adding additional heroes will not decrease the challenge. A whole team that a player can use from the whole skills of which the person has unlocked on his account. Secondly, it was directed at the person who was complaining about some missions in Cantha on HM about how he wanted a build that can run over everything. Thirdly Hard Mode is HARD.

If you have a problem with henchmen and need heroes for normal mode, then sorry but you really really need to look at how you are playing. A lot of people in this thread and even the guy I was replying to before agree's that henchmen are a-ok in NM.

You do realize that having full heroes makes henchmen obsolete, yes? And in that the henchmen such as Devona and the gang which are a part of every GW game by the way. You reakon you might want to rethink that it doesn't hurt the story a little bit? Let me look at Prophecies and Factions! Oh yes... why Mhenlo players a big part of the Factions story! Not to mention that you meet Devona and do quests from her in pre-searing as well as others from the group.

Zendie Starchild

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Mar 2006

W/R

30 Aug 2007 at 15:35 - 290

Release of Prophecies:
Total population [Divided by] # of areas in Prophecies = Easy to find a PUG

Release of Factions:
Total population [Divided by] # of areas in Prophecies and Factions = Harder to find a good PUG

Release of Nightfall:
Total population [Divided by] # of areas in Prophecies, Factions, and Nightfall = MORE difficult to find a good PUG

Addition of Hardmode:
Total population [Divided by] # of areas in Prophecies, Factions, and Nightfall = NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE to find ANYONE willing to do HM missions or vanquish...

Yay!! GW:EN Addition:
Total population [Divided by] # of areas in Prophecies, Factions, Nightfall, and Northern SHiverpeaks = ..............sigh............. Just give up... NOBODY is going to do HM with you in any of the campains.... EVER!!!

/SIGNED <-------------- GIVE ME 7 HEROS OR GIVE ME TITLE HUNTING DEATH!!!

DreamRunner

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2006

W/

30 Aug 2007 at 15:39 - 291

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick Smit

Not everyone is enjoying or waiting to torture himself to spend time with others. Some want to have the luxury to go AFK and be slow, go and test builds etc.

It is selfish to prohibit these possibilities cause u would like to see them PUG instead, and think that yopu might be able to promote that by denying 7 heroes. Guess what, most people will just do with 3 heroes and 4 henchies. Why do you care if some goes solo or with henchies and heroes, its a freaking game. if u like challenge you dont go and play PvE, you go and play PvP.

You know you can be slow, go afk and play the game at your own pace with the game in just having heroes and henchmen?

Its really hard to know what you are saying but I have never promoted for people to PuG. I don't know where you are pulling these ideas from what I have said. But the system with 3 heroes and henchmen is fine. I agree that it is fine. Having 7 heroes will cause henchmen to be obsolete, henchmen are there for the reason heroes are there. Heroes are just the icing on a cake for the player. Also PvE has Hard Mode which is meant to be a challenge, thats why its called HARD MODE.

Zendie Starchild

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Mar 2006

W/R

30 Aug 2007 at 15:40 - 292

Release of Prophecies:
Total population [Divided by] # of areas in Prophecies = Easy to find a PUG

Release of Factions:
Total population [Divided by] # of areas in Prophecies and Factions = Harder to find a good PUG

Release of Nightfall:
Total population [Divided by] # of areas in Prophecies, Factions, and Nightfall = MORE difficult to find a good PUG

Addition of Hardmode:
Total population [Divided by] # of areas in Prophecies, Factions, and Nightfall = NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE to find ANYONE willing to do HM missions or vanquish...

Yay!! GW:EN Addition:
Total population [Divided by] # of areas in Prophecies, Factions, Nightfall, and Northern SHiverpeaks = ..............sigh............. Just give up... NOBODY is going to do HM with you in any of the campains.... EVER!!!

/SIGNED <-------------- GIVE ME 7 HEROS OR GIVE ME TITLE HUNTING DEATH!!!

Qual

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2005

Denmark, Karup.

[PuG]

W/E

30 Aug 2007 at 15:51 - 293

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zendie Starchild

/SIGNED <-------------- GIVE ME 7 HEROS OR GIVE ME TITLE HUNTING DEATH!!!

Why do you write /signed ? Are you retarded, Gaile has already said that there won't ever be 7 heroes for us to bring in the party...
/read more of thread the next time plz

Draikin

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

30 Aug 2007 at 15:51 - 294

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamRunner

First of all, I can't even fathom on how adding additional heroes will not decrease the challenge.

Of course it will. So did PvE only skills which heroes can't use.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamRunner

Thirdly Hard Mode is HARD.

For all the wrong reasons. It simply encourages the use of the "I win button" builds like a BHA-Epidemic R/Me. That's part of the reason so many people want to have 7 heroes, so they can create a build that actually works in HM. When that fire ele boss can hit your team with a 500+ damage AoE attack then you don't exactly have that many options to counter them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamRunner

You do realize that having full heroes makes henchmen obsolete, yes?

Do you think everyone gives their heroes perfect weapons, runes and tweaks their skill bars depending on the area they're in? Most people just slap Healing Breeze on Dunkoro's skill bar and don't bother changing anything because it works fine in Normal Mode, and they never play Hard Mode anyway.

Abedeus

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jan 2007

Niflheim

R/

30 Aug 2007 at 15:52 - 295

I tried to do Ring of Fire. A wammo, R/W with lvl 15 pet, wannabe nuker, monk spamming Heal Party, a good paragon and few other people, including suiciding necro... After 15 minutes we got stopped by first boss (ettin warrior) and couldn't kill him, because elementalist didn't have right skills, including attunements (even Cynn has fire attune), no elites... I think I'm never going to get a PuG again. They just plain suck.
/signed
I want 7 heroes!!

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

30 Aug 2007 at 15:59 - 296

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChaoticCoyote

Yes!

Area difficulty should be scaled to group size. That COMPLETELY eliminates the entire problem. People who want to group can; people who want to solo can.

I *like* to play with other people; I've said that oevr and over again.

BUT I CAN'T PLAY WITH PEOPLE WHEN THERE ARE NO PEOPLE TO PLAY WITH.

The game is to big and too diverse to expect people to find someone to play with in every possible situation at any time.

I am not anti-social; I simply want to play the game.

What's interesting is how a few hyped up games are going with this route, as well. From what I understand, Hellgate is also going to be scaling areas to group size.

Quote:

If you have a problem with henchmen and need heroes for normal mode, then sorry but you really really need to look at how you are playing. A lot of people in this thread and even the guy I was replying to before agree's that henchmen are a-ok in NM.

As has been stated recently, it seems like the only reason to have 7 heroes would be totally fair - or at least the reason with the most logic - is because of all the PvE only skills. Since they can only be used by human players, you can pretty much seriously gimp yourself if you go the full H/H route.

...Of course, this may be one of ANet's little incentive tricks to get you to group with people (/tinfoilhat).

Qual

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2005

Denmark, Karup.

[PuG]

W/E

30 Aug 2007 at 16:00 - 297

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

I tried to do Ring of Fire. A wammo, R/W with lvl 15 pet, wannabe nuker, monk spamming Heal Party, a good paragon and few other people, including suiciding necro... After 15 minutes we got stopped by first boss (ettin warrior) and couldn't kill him, because elementalist didn't have right skills, including attunements (even Cynn has fire attune), no elites... I think I'm never going to get a PuG again. They just plain suck.
/signed
I want 7 heroes!!

Either you are lying or you were very unlucky. Yes some pugs are shit, but most of them are okay imo.

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

30 Aug 2007 at 16:04 - 298

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qual

Why do you write /signed ? Are you retarded, Gaile has already said that there won't ever be 7 heroes for us to bring in the party...
/read more of thread the next time plz

Gaile says a lot of things...

DreamRunner

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2006

W/

30 Aug 2007 at 16:18 - 299

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draikin

Of course it will. So did PvE only skills which heroes can't use.

For all the wrong reasons. It simply encourages the use of the "I win button" builds like a BHA-Epidemic R/Me. That's part of the reason so many people want to have 7 heroes, so they can create a build that actually works in HM. When that fire ele boss can hit your team with a 500+ damage AoE attack then you don't exactly have that many options to counter them.

Do you think everyone gives their heroes perfect weapons, runes and tweaks their skill bars depending on the area they're in? Most people just slap Healing Breeze on Dunkoro's skill bar and don't bother changing anything because it works fine in Normal Mode, and they never play Hard Mode anyway.

I know it will, thats why I can't begin to understand how it won't.

So people want to have more diversity of skills in HM because only a select few work really well? But if you want that, then needing 7 heroes is excessive amount for just PvE. A ele boss with an 500+ aoe attack like the ele boss in Tahnnakai Temple when it casts star burst? And yes there are good ways to counter it but I don't think that needing to counter will need to resort to needing to have 7 heroes. Thats also why 3 heroes is alright to me.

If most people then do that, then why all the fuss about needing 7 heroes when henchmen do it alright? Also Henchmen again do fine even in HM.

Qual

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2005

Denmark, Karup.

[PuG]

W/E

30 Aug 2007 at 16:22 - 300

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Gaile says a lot of things...

Well she got the word from the designers, soo.... GG

ChaoticCoyote

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2006

Florida, USA

Imperial Order of the Iguana [IGGY]

R/

30 Aug 2007 at 16:31 - 301

DUPE

Ugh... server lag ftl

ChaoticCoyote

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2006

Florida, USA

Imperial Order of the Iguana [IGGY]

R/

30 Aug 2007 at 16:40 - 302

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Gaile says a lot of things...

Gaile said that Razah would NEVER be changed, because it would devalue the effort of people who had worked heard to get him.

Attaining Razah was drastically changed.

Gaile said the favor would NEVER be changed, because it was part of the core design of GW.

Favor was drastically changed.

I could go on and on, but I think the point is made: Gaile often makes absolute pronouncements that don't hold up in the long run.

Gaile is a hard-working, honest, helpful person. This is in NO WAY a slam against Gaile. It is simply a fact that ANet changes direction based on player feedback -- and this is a GOOD THING.

And so I keep beating on these points:

Full hero parties WILL NOT obsolete henchmen, since most people don't have the time/inclination to fully equip 25 heros.

Full hero parties WILL HELP deal with the spreading of the population, which makes PuGs difficult.

Full hero parties WILL NOT make Hard Mode into Easy Mode, since heros can't use PvE-only skills and can't coordinate finesse-based builds. AI will always be inferior to real humans.

Full hero parties WILL ADD greater tactical and strategic diversity for those of us who like the challenge of building synergistic teams.

Full hero parties WILL NOT force anyone to use heroes! If you think they make the game too easy, don't use them!

Full hero parties WILL ALLOW people like me to pursue HM titles otherwise locked off to us by a lack of players.

And for the insulting twits in this thread: I don't need full hero parties to beat Normal mode. I got seven Protector titles on three characters across three campaigns WITH PUGS.

TabascoSauce

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2007

Virginia, US

TFgt

W/Me

30 Aug 2007 at 17:51 - 303

From Navaros, in another thread:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navaros

The thing is, GW games in normal mode are never going to provide any sort of challenge to a good player who knows how to play properly and has proper skillbars equipped, regardless of PVE-only skills existing or not. A good player can easily steamroll any area of normal mode in any GW game with Heroes/Hench. Therefore for a player who knows what he is doing, it can't be "dumbed-down" any more or made easier than it already is.

The only thing PVE-only skills do is add some fun to the game with new ways to play the game, which is gonna be steamrolled either way; with or without PVE-only skills.

The same applies to Henchies or Heroes. A player who manages aggro will be able to win, regardless of the team he or she is on.

I think the one side feels that Heroes further separate users from eachother by providing an easy button, making PuGs redundant, and they are correct, but I think it has more meaning than they originally intent or want to intend. It has been said many times here that PuGs are people who cannot win with Heroes, and thus will not be able to pull their weight in a party.

I have found that statement to be true.

What is to be done about it? I do not know. But I can safely state that I trust a hench or hero monk more than a human - they have situational awareness and reflexes that no human can match. That is why they have crazy interrupt capabilities, as well.

Since I am in the camp where I have limited time and can be called away at any moment, I favor the 8 hero idea. There is no downside as far as I can see for my gamestyle. But I am not the only gamer, and ANet should go for a middle ground.

The only advantage humans have over heroes is the (new) PvE skills, or the endgame skills from Kuunavang/Lightbringer.

I would say that if ANet wanted to encourage teaming, which wouldnt hurt them, they should make it worth our while in rewards like loot drops.

Just my 2 copper.

Thanks!
TabascoSauce

Abedeus

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jan 2007

Niflheim

R/

30 Aug 2007 at 18:20 - 304

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qual

Either you are lying or you were very unlucky. Yes some pugs are shit, but most of them are okay imo.

Excuse me? In 15 minutes I got to first Ettin group, while with H/H I was there in 7 minutes. With PuG's I do mission twice as long. And someone has a point - You will be actually able to make some TACTICS! I mean, what tactic can you have if, for example, you have 6 henches and 4 heroes, like my monk has in Prophecies? 2 monks, 2 wars, 2 nukers, a derv and necro battery. And that's whole tactic I can use with that. Now with 7 heroes.. I have no barriers. Even that funky Eskimos team build on wiki. And still I won't be able to solo DoA with heroes, as they are just more stupid than people. So PuGs are safe and solo people (like myself - after today I will never join a pug) are happy.

Novalon

Academy Page

Join Date: Aug 2005

W/

30 Aug 2007 at 18:42 - 305

This is a good idea. But like what the auction house thread in the suggestion forum, I doubt we'll get what we're trying to accomplish.

Draikin

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

30 Aug 2007 at 19:29 - 306

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamRunner

If most people then do that, then why all the fuss about needing 7 heroes when henchmen do it alright? Also Henchmen again do fine even in HM.

Henchmen aren't always fine in HM, anyone that vanquished or tried to vanquish Poisoned Outcrops with H/H will tell you that. A lot of people have different reasons for wanting 7 heroes, but Hard Mode is definitely the main reason (people only started to make a fuss after it was introduced).

I do have a question for the people (and Anet) that proclaim that pugs are going to die if we add 7 heroes: if it's possible to complete just about any PvE objective in Normal Mode using henches only, then why is it still relatively easy to find a pug for missions in Normal Mode? Why would pugs in Hard Mode, which don't even exist for a lot of missions, suffer from letting only a small fraction of the PvE community use 4 extra heroes instead of 4 henches? I'd really like to hear your answer.

tyche7

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2006

Nebraska

The Killer Panda Bears

W/Mo

30 Aug 2007 at 19:32 - 307

I am 100% for 7 hero and 1 person parties - I see NO point in not allowing it. I've ready several posts (many very long) on the issue and have always /signed them saying we need to be allowed 7 heroes. It's something I feel very strongly about -- and just for the record, I PUG about 3/4 of the time. One of the main reasons I DON'T PUG is when I know I'll be afk in the middle of something (like when I'm doing laundry) and don't want to make 7 people waste their time waiting for me or when I'm farming / working on titles (like cartographer), etc. It's VERY tough to find parties for very specific reasons (e.g. for vanquishing or Hard mode or farming certain items). Whereas to find a party for a mish isn't too bad (although quite hard in some areas especially for HM). Given that lack of people I would think anet would jump on the opportunity to still go out and enjoy the game but they refuse us 7 heroes. I still don't even know why - haven't seen a good reason against it yet.

Age

Hall Hero

Join Date: Jul 2005

California Canada/BC

STG Administrator

Mo/

30 Aug 2007 at 23:12 - 308

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

I don't see how turning missions into quests would be any different in finding groups.

If players want to do nothing but H/H the game then it stop being a cooperative game as pve is related to.Then it becomes an online single player game the end of cooperative.I can't stand using H/H in missions as for the most I fail the mission.I can't help thinking of all the Sins and Mesmers who were shut out of groups because they weren't really needed.You don't even need a Ranger in The Borliss Pass or Frost Gate mission although I solo Monked those.This all starts at the Northern Wall.Way back in beta I didn't even know about henchies and soloed it.

Quote:

Originally posted bybhavv
You mean when the game first came out there was only one campaign. With 3 campaigns and GWEN the players are a lot more spread out, which is what makes it harder to form groups. Your not going to fing 8 people, heck you can hardly find one other person with decent eroes to solo the game with.

Now to everyone saying all it takes for a full hero team is 2 players, most pugs that I have accepted in the past didnt even have heroes, or if they did the builds were a joke (Healing burst, heal other, jameis gaze, heal party Tahlkora anyone?). It doesnt matter how much advice is given to these players they simply dont listen or take consideration.

I am fed up beyond fed up of pugs, as a lot of people are. They waste my time which I dont have much off while working 4 x 10 hour shifts during the week and the occasional fifth day of overtime

I find it much faster with groups that is doing missions not questing.

The reason for bad Monks in the game is because they got ran through it or simply never read up on it or joined a Forum to learn more.That is what the monk forum is for but for the most part they are in bad guilds.

DreamRunner

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2006

W/

31 Aug 2007 at 01:00 - 309

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draikin

Henchmen aren't always fine in HM, anyone that vanquished or tried to vanquish Poisoned Outcrops with H/H will tell you that. A lot of people have different reasons for wanting 7 heroes, but Hard Mode is definitely the main reason (people only started to make a fuss after it was introduced).

I do have a question for the people (and Anet) that proclaim that pugs are going to die if we add 7 heroes: if it's possible to complete just about any PvE objective in Normal Mode using henches only, then why is it still relatively easy to find a pug for missions in Normal Mode? Why would pugs in Hard Mode, which don't even exist for a lot of missions, suffer from letting only a small fraction of the PvE community use 4 extra heroes instead of 4 henches? I'd really like to hear your answer.

If people are really are having such a difficult time with henchmen then I would suggest to improve henchmen bars rather than get 7 heroes. I still don't see why people really hate henchmen so much. They are not that bad. But yes, I would agree that people wanting this is because of mostly Hard Mode.

And I most sure that I have never proclaimed anything about PuGs. I personally don't really care whats happened to PuGs or whats happening. But I will answer your first question anyway. People can PuG is normal mode for a number of reasons, first is its easy, normal mode is easy and be accomplished by using PuGs. Secondly, people seem hate henchmen, they dislike them for their skills and hate the fact the its an AI controlling the henchmen. I think its to do with control and all that. Thirdly, I think the community doesn't like HM and people just make another character to play if they are bored of one and therefore just go do normal mode all over again.

New Buddha

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2005

31 Aug 2007 at 05:27 - 310

I say we should be given the option of 7 heores IF we so choose. we should be given the choice to pug or hero it.

having 7 heroes will make this game interesting in another way for me.

/signed

Age

Hall Hero

Join Date: Jul 2005

California Canada/BC

STG Administrator

Mo/

31 Aug 2007 at 05:45 - 311

@DreamRunner

Yeah more or less I wouldn't mind seeing a Soft Mode or Easy Mode for Survivors as I wouldn't making a couple up with 2 slot I have.

Burst Cancel

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2006

Domain of Broken Game Mechanics

31 Aug 2007 at 18:44 - 312

Did I seriously just see an Orison argument? *looks around for Ensign*

Orison is a waste of time. Monking is not about keeping everyone at full health; monking is about keeping people alive. There are any number of spells that are better than Orison for keeping people alive, many of which have been mentioned in this thread. Take a look at GvG monking bars - there are reasons why you won't see Orison.

bhavv

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2006

01 Sep 2007 at 17:58 - 313

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qual

Well she got the word from the designers, soo.... GG

I sent an E-mail to GW support about 7 heroes and gave them a link to this thread, pretty much saying dont tell me to post it on community forums, its already there. Heres the reply:

Thank you very much for contacting the Guild Wars Customer Support Team. We always appreciate hearing from our players. After reviewing your description, we are able to confirm that the problem you have reported is a known issue and the development team is already working on an appropriate solution. However, we are going to forward your enquiry to our QA department in order to provide the development team with as much information as possible.

Also, people that suck up to gaile and Anet Devs are pure lamers. It pretty much just feeds Anet's Ego of 'Were right and our customers are wrong'.

bhavv

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2006

01 Sep 2007 at 18:06 - 314

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burst Cancel

Did I seriously just see an Orison argument? *looks around for Ensign*

Orison is a waste of time. Monking is not about keeping everyone at full health; monking is about keeping people alive. There are any number of spells that are better than Orison for keeping people alive, many of which have been mentioned in this thread. Take a look at GvG monking bars - there are reasons why you won't see Orison.

It was refirng to heroes using Orison, and yes they use it fine. This isnt GVG, its PVE with AI.

Every healer in every campaign uses orison. If you hate orison so much, then I guess I would be expecting you to /sign this so you can change it right?

Anyway, Hero monks for some reason are better at keeping a party alive with orison. I tried changing it to WoC and they dont keep themselves alive very well cos of the recharge.

Why not go and use infuse health in PVE on your heroes too then cos you use it in PVP? Surely it must be a great skill to use in PVE too right? /sarcasm

gloria vander belt

Banned

Join Date: Jul 2007

Dragons Lair

United Farmers Of Europe[FOE]

W/

01 Sep 2007 at 18:06 - 315

Finally some 1 started this thread, I agree give us the option to fill our whole team with hero's cus Henchmen are to useless in some areas and i would love to be able to set my teams build to how i want them, not go face Glint in hard Mode with some player who doesnt even have a top-end elite equiped, it makes me laugh how many people just want Hero's, because i agree and if A-Net wanted this to be more sociable they should have Survied there local chat as to why half uys players have it turned off 24/7, even in tombs i preffer to take heros and henchies, and if i could i would equip all slots with heros but A-Net are dumb and only let you have 3 out at a time, and yes i agree whats with having 3 warriors???? thats just over tanked, completely and utterly stupid to only allow u to equip 3 heros at a time....P.S pugs sucked that bad at Hard Mode i did glint with henchies only, and theres no point to equiping certain heros when they over run the henchies!!!

bhavv

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2006

01 Sep 2007 at 18:09 - 316

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamRunner

If people are really are having such a difficult time with henchmen then I would suggest to improve henchmen bars rather than get 7 heroes. I still don't see why people really hate henchmen so much. They are not that bad. But yes, I would agree that people wanting this is because of mostly Hard Mode.

In consulate docks HM, khim uses 4 skills. RoF, orison, PS, and renew life. Throughout NF, Mhenlo uses WoH and Healing breeze when he would be much better off with LoD and no healing breeze at all.

Better hench bars have been asked for several times, Ive had a few threads on it already. But Anet arent doing anything.

And the real reason why people want 7 heroes doesnt really have anything to do with HM or NM, its because they want to use their own custom skill bars. They would find playing their own way without other people insulting them (hello orison haters) a lot more fun then being tied down to henchmen skillbars and other people that either cant play the way they want, or ask them to play in a different way.

Everyone enjoys playing the game in one way better then another. 7 heroes would allow everyone to play the way they enjoy best.

nugzta

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2005

01 Sep 2007 at 18:34 - 317

As I said before and I'll say it again, allow us to use 7 heroes in HM only. PuG dont do HM, they all do normal missions/quests. So having 7 heroes in HM it wont affect anyone.

Also I believe the addition of 7 heroes wont make difference from current state anyway (some like pug, some like H/H, its all up to your playstyle)

Lord Natural

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

Canada

Black Crescent [BC]

W/

02 Sep 2007 at 00:59 - 318

I think they're trying to encourage the buddy system, which at least requires 1 friend for a full hero team. Unfortunately most people seem to just go solo anyway, so the effort is for naught. I know I'd have more fun playing if I could make a full hero team build, instead of a hero team build built around compensating for poor hench skillsets.

I definitely think 25 hench is overkill with the current system, especially considering none of them have unique abilities. I remember with FF3 (6 in JP), you had a huge cast but at least everyone had their own unique ability which made it beneficial to rotate party configurations. When every hero is the same, there is really no reason at all to rotate different heroes into the mix. The only thing it allows you to do is bring 3 heroes of the same class, but that's really a small benefit that most people won't take advantage of.

After playing EN for a day (even after I swore I wouldn't buy it

), I'm wishing they'd have just made it harder and allowed 7 heroes. So far things seem quite easy, not to mention many areas are very runnable.

bhavv

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2006

02 Sep 2007 at 02:23 - 319

yea, they are promoting two people + 6 heroes play, when the fact is people that like to use heroes play solo anyway, and people that play with other people tend not to use heroes.

Anet are a little screwed in their heads.

DreamRunner

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2006

W/

02 Sep 2007 at 03:20 - 320

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

In consulate docks HM, khim uses 4 skills. RoF, orison, PS, and renew life. Throughout NF, Mhenlo uses WoH and Healing breeze when he would be much better off with LoD and no healing breeze at all.

Better hench bars have been asked for several times, Ive had a few threads on it already. But Anet arent doing anything.

And the real reason why people want 7 heroes doesnt really have anything to do with HM or NM, its because they want to use their own custom skill bars. They would find playing their own way without other people insulting them (hello orison haters) a lot more fun then being tied down to henchmen skillbars and other people that either cant play the way they want, or ask them to play in a different way.

Everyone enjoys playing the game in one way better then another. 7 heroes would allow everyone to play the way they enjoy best.

A few threads like this one? Where you seem to be mostly complaining. And not only that but everyone else in the thread didnt seem to have the same problem as you did. You are pissed off at PuGs, henchmen and just want heroes because its going to be easier.