Why have 25 heros to use 3 at a time?

heroes are the best gold sink anet ever invented.

Unless you totaly ignore their needs, like I do. The only weapons they get is gold junk that I would sell, I give them only runes that are cheap/got the from loot and they are worth little and DON'T give them greens at all.
So again, why we have 25 heroes and use 3 at one time? Soon I'll finish Nightfall campaining and I'll have 25 heroes too. Guess what is the worst (except for "get title to advance in plot" thingie) part of Nightfall? When you need to choose between Melonni and Koss. You HAVE to choose someone. What if Melonni's mission is easier, but you have a level 20 koss, while your dervish is lvl 5? Same here - The only good thing is that you get heroes at lvl 20 and you dont worry about leveling up. So don't tell me that getting heroes is ,,the easier way''. Getting a guild playing PvE-only (Im not in one) is even easier. So why A.Net didn't change it? Because players should ENJOY game. And still, will it be possible to solo DoA? No, because heroes don't know how to be a bonder. They can't manage energy. They can't spike or tank. They also can't nuke (Cynn sometimes hits a group of foes, but usually she wastes Meteor Shower on a single monster). They can't even be a BiP's! So why is it ,,easier''?!

Right now its effing taking me 40 minutes to set up one noob and his heroes.

Please for the love of god give me 7 heroes Anet and stop making me waste an hour of my life every thime I want to play the damn game.

Anet, gaile, Izzy and whoever else, you all suck balls untill you allow 7 heroes kay?

"Use it fine" is meaningless. About the only time they don't use skills "fine" is when the AI is actually glitched (e.g., not using ZB on themselves). This is like saying that Hero elementalists should carry Flare, because "they use it fine" and "this isn't GvG". The fact that it's not GvG only means that the bar for passing is lower - it doesn't make Orison any better.

I've wanted seven heroes since they were first introduced.

Personal experience is a poor substitute for concrete evidence. "For some reason" they just do better?

Infuse is anti-spike, and is used only when absolutely necessary, even in GvG. The reasons that Infuse is useless in PvE are: 1) spiking is rarely very "spiky", 2) the "holy trinity" obviates the need for catching spikes because all of the damage will be on the tank; pre-protting is much more efficient than infusing, and 3) Infuse has terrible efficiency. Assuming 600 health and 14 healing, Infuse sacs 300 health and heals for 402, resulting in a net increase of just 102 health for 10e, for an efficiency of 102/10 = 10.2hp/e. In GvG, the need for an enormous heal at 1/4s cast outweighs the efficiency disadvantage; in PvE, it almost never does.

Orison is bad because it's a minor heal at mediocre efficiency and 1s cast. As such, it serves no real purpose. I can't think of a situation off the top of my head where Orison is the best option. Those who use it claim it's good at "topping off bars", but this is a useless function. Someone in no danger of dying doesn't need to be healed; spend your time and energy elsewhere; especially true if you're running LoD, which raises everyone's red bars to at least 80% for a meager 5e.

To put things in perspective, let's compare against another rarely-used skill: Heal Other. At 14/10 (heal/div), Heal Other is 10e for 170+32 health at 3/4s cast; this is an efficiency of 202/10 = 20.2hp/e. Orison is 5e for 67+32 health at 1s cast; this is an efficiency of 99/5 = 19.8hp/e. Furthermore, Heal Other is a big heal, so it's actually useful in situations where a party member is about to die.

AHhh, the "Shut up and leave us alone" answer! I´ve got that one too once. I think the problem I reported still remains.

Quoted for failure.

Oh, don't say that. You are meant to imply them to keep threads going. I had great hopes for him from when he replied to my first post, but it seems like from his previous post and the thread about him hating henchmen. That is, he is digging a hole for himself. But he might get back on track.

Excuse me for being furious when I accept a random alliance member for nundu bay HM. I wait 10 minutes for him to be ready, then when he joins with his heroes I ask him to ping builds. He pings his own which was kinda meh, but none of his heroes and asks 'Rdy to go?' I tell him no untill he pings his heroes builds. This is what he had on his monk:



Why does Anet expect me to play with other people? WHY?

Heal other on heroes mean they run out of energy because they spam it too much.

With comments like that I'm constantly amazed they pay any attention to these boards at all. Most user suggestions ARE rubbish, look at the amout of whining on this board and then look at the number of concrete, constructive suggestions. Then consider how many of those would screw the game up. The signal to noise ratio of useful, meaningful suggestions to everything else is appallingly low, any way you parse it. Despite that, sometimes a good idea gets through. I hope that'll be the case with a full hero party, but I'm not holding my breath.

What's wrong with WoH and Healing Breeze if Orison is okay? Talk about hypocrisy ftw.

Basically, your argument is this:
I don't want to run henchmen because I want to replace their shitty bars with my shitty bars.

What is the difference really? Just play with henchmen and you'll be fine.

One reason I want 7 hero's is quiet simply.

Henchmen arn't the best most of the time, and their skill/bars professions arn't really usd well. So if you want a good healer you need to have a monk, if you want good mage damage you need 1-2 mages. Your quickly running out of choices. Trying to use other classes can be doable, but the henchmen arn't really going to help pickup the slack if you want to stick in a more hexing team, your not really got any choices for henchmen that will dish out the damage you need to kill the weakened enemies.

The down fall of heros is that ppl treat them as they are their real hers and put runes and insignias on them.This effects the whole prices on runes and insignias from the trader or merchant.When Gwen or NF first came out it was a bad time to start a new char. in any campaign.Heros do not need runes and insignias just like henchmen don't have them.Think of others in the game no matter what campaign they have just stating out with not no much money on them when they get in Prophecies to post it is not worth going any further untill they can farm for runes and insignias.This is all around post ascalon and with loot scaling they won't get rich fast.

In otherwords there are less fortunate one then yourselfs who have more gold to throw around.Runes and Isignias are meant for real chars. not AI.

Yeah I need 3 monks but I hate henchies...

Beside those henchies are 'not' too good-looking. But the female heroes look hotter

More hearsay, no evidence. Looks like a common pattern is emerging.

Gee this is the biggest load of bull I've ever heard. If they don't need them, then players definetly don't, geeze, it helps improve the chars, give you some extra strengths. Why wouldn't someone put runes on hero's.

I think that if you allow henchman in the party and have no limits on the number of henchman in a party, the same should hold true for heroes. PUGs now are mostly a waste of time, and ANet should give players the option to play how they want to.

On a different note- anyone like the new AI where heroes/hench kite at almost anything? Monks cannot heal because they are running most of the time. Just amazing Anet WTG!

Thats really stupid and annoying to be honest, I had a thread in the suggestion board about a STAY THE **** THERE button as it really needs to be added.

Hmmmm a dead horse. I like heroes.

You're missing the point. No one uses Heal Other either, yet it's actually better than Orison in every way but recharge, where it's a whopping 1s slower. That tells you something about how bad Orison is.

No they aren't they are just NPCs and Henchies don't have any runes on them.There is no reason to put runes on them unless you intend to play in Hero Battles but that is a mere 9% of the player base.The reason you put runes on Your Chars is if you are going to PvP with it other wise you don't need them.
It effects the prices at the rune merchant like I said it is bad time to start a new char. especially if you are new to the game you are at a disadvantage and there is loot scaling that doesn't help matters.I would pay visit and see how much runes have gone up sup vigor was at 13K and coming down now it is at 16K,Radiant was at 600 go now it is at 1K.

I am all for using up to seven Heroes at the same time the only drawback I can see is to get the most out of each class of Hero you would have needed to play each class to have unlocked all the needed skills and capped the needed elites.

I don't see why this can't be implemented. Its very close to the already wildly popular hero/hench teams except more customizable. Its not like people who PUG now will somehow stop doing it just because 7 hero teams are available. PUGs are not that horrible if people could just learn to communicate, listen and overall have fun. The people that know this rather PUG it or Guildy/friend it and will still do the same even if 7 Heroes are allowed. I for one would love 7 Heroes as i usually Hench/Hero unless i see a good amount of guildy/alliance members on and we all happen to want to do the same thing, but the chances of that are rare. The most popular ways to play through are already hero/hench and 2friends/6hero so the 7 Hero idea wouldn't change much. I'm totally for this idea and think its great.

Oh and in response to Age: runes aren't unnecessary. They help both on you and on heroes in Pve. i find it total pvp elitist bs that you think runes should only be used for PvP. They are useful in both PvE and PvP and definitely pretty much a necessity for HM.

Age, I completely deck out my heroes with the best possible gear so they can be as efficent as possible. Is that so bad?

Heh though to be honest I did Underworld yesterday with 6 hero's *friend left mid way* and while I didn't beat it, I did pretty good on my own, thats with only being able to control half the hero's. They are a huge advantage over henchmen, as they listen most of the time to what you want,have usable skill bars. After that with 7 chars in a party 6 hero's I definetly think it needs to be implemented, or at least increase the number of hero's to 4 or 5.

To anet... the game designer vision leaves much to be desired.I actualy dont care about their vision, i want the product i pay for done my way so i want all hero party or anet can forget gw2.

To Anet: When you decided to raise the hero number to 25, you asked for this. Give people this many choices, and it is reasonable they are going to want to use them. Don't sit there and say, "Here are 25 heroes, but you're still stuck with 'Leeeerrroooooooy' Devona and 'Meteor Shower on a spirit' Cynn instead of running builds fit for AI."

To Age: Please, stop. Skill breakpoints hit at 13 a LOT in this game. That works for heroes just as much as for real players. Yeah, a Superior rune is kinda crazy, but slapping on a minor/major expertise or marksmanship rune on Margrid or Jin can give them the same breakpoint that a real ranger gets. That and quickening their energy recharge, which let's you worry a bit less about them running out, makes your life a lot easier. The same works for other professions. Whether it's a few more minions with Olias/MoW, or more interrupts from Norgu/Gwen through better fast cast, it makes sense to do so.

And to others about spending on the runes. Erm...what do you do with armor drops? just sell them at the merchant? It's called a salvage kit. Use it and your heroes will have what they need. There are plenty of weapons drops with mods. They don't have to be max. Every bit helps.

If you want your heroes to help as much as they can, you need to outfit them right.

It's unfortunate that Anet has chosen to add hard mode and refuses to give solo players the ability to take advantage of it. I'm already concerned about the soloability of Guild Wars 2, I can't help but take Gaile's response here as a sign of things to come. You can't force those of us that enjoy playing alone to play with others, all you can do is lose our business. Please don't put us in a position where it doesn't make sense for us to support Guild Wars 2.

/signed

I already go with the AI these days, there are very few missions that need humans. Particularly Eye of the North is easily done with heroes and henchmen. I have not actually even entered a group with any humans there except when trading in towns to let buyers know where I am.

Allowing us a full hero party will do this:
1 - Let us have more fun on our own. I don't like the henchmen very much. They often cause unnecessary aggro and are useful mainly as meat shields.
2 - Run our preferred team builds. I would personally take Tahlkora, Dunkoro, Ogden, Vekk, Shadowhoof, Livia, Koss, and myself as a spirit warrior ritualist. Then maybe I'd be able to get masters reward on Tahnnakai Temple.
3 - Do UW/FoW without needing a solo build or a PUG. I'd like to do the Fissure of Woe sometime with an AI group instead of humans.

It will NOT do this:
1 - Lure us away from pickup groups. Those of us who don't like PUGs are going with AI whether we get full hero parties or not.
2 - Imbalance the game. An organized guild group is very powerful if done well, more so than heroes, but I don't see a cap on the number of guild members allowed in a party.
3 - Disadvantage PUG players. It simply won't affect them.

in my opinion anet will never allow us to play with 7 heroes cause of only ONE reason:

all henchmen would be unemployed.

Lol! I just got into a guild group for HM eternal Grove I attempted it with what they already had set up and we just got wiped. They had a monk from their guild and one other monk. The guildless monk was pro, loaded up a goot prot bar when asked. Their guild monk was running this:



I asked him to change to a second prot obviously and asked the rit to go heal. The rit changed to a good bar, the monk says 'Why should I change my bar? I use this on in HM all the time'.

OFC I couldnt help but attack him for thinking his bar was fine when I asked for a better one. The result? The guildies go off their own without me or the decent monk + rit, and I saw them come back to the outpost 5 minutes later, obviously pwned again.

People in this game are morons. 7 heroes please.

I stopped about hereHeros don't need runes or insignias or atleast the ones bought from the Trader if salvaged then use but don't buy it from the trader.This has a whole ripple effect on runes and insignias imagine a new player who has crafted a set of armour and can't afford runes or insignias.I still don't have any on my Derv or Mesmer yet insignias.It is all about builds and skill not how great your gear is you can beat the game with none maxed armour with no runes on it.Don't forget those in presearing that have no runes or insignias and stay to get LDoA
I bet you my heros are just as affective as yours or not better with no runes or insignias on.I just beat Riverside in Hard Mode with a friend bonus aswell and my hero Koss doesn't have runes on or insignias.

The highest level enemy they'll face is what, 9? And the boss is like 12 or somin?

And while you don't need runes or insignias on your heroes, it's undeniable that they do help (especially the bloodstained insignia).

Runes and insignia are pretty useful in my opinion.

Full Radiant = 8 extra energy, I put it on all my characters including Warrior.

Then I take headgear with superior of whatever they specialize in... DM on my Necro, all elemental sets on my Elementalist, Spawning Power on my Rit, Strength on my Warrior, etc.

Remaining armor gets runes of attunement for more energy.

Skills more effective, larger energy pool... it is definitely a PvE feature.

QFT.

---- ---- ----

Just had another dismall group for HM Gyala hatchery. I had a monk who was perfect, but a ranger that had no clue how to do the mission or use his heroes and kept pulling two mobs at one. Every time I try to lure a Mob, Jora's already in the middle of two of them. He couldnt follow a single ping, line or arrow on the map and just kept aggroing everything in sight.

I tell him whats he's doing wrong and how to stop it, and I get the usuall 'For someone that wanted help your being an ass'.

He didnt even use the heroes I needed, nor set up the builds on the ones he wanted to use the way I needed. And yes everytime Ive led a human or 2 man group into any mission before it gets done the first time around.

God damn seriously can people learn to play the game yet? Heroes would be able to follow tactics, heroes would do what I say and get everything done the first time around without any problems.

The longer this keeps happening the less chance I have of Buying GW2. I only bought GW:EN for the skills, havnt even started the PVE part of it yet.

You bet wrong, have you Hero heched Vizunah Square, Boreas seabed, unwaking waters and aborstone yet on HM?

Ofc you havnt and you think +3 or 4 to a characters primary attribute doesnt make any difference.

Why not just reduce all yours and hero attributes by 4 points and see how much of a difference it makes?

Take 8 on eveything instead of 12. Maybe you'll learn why runes are usefull then.

Why are you pugging Gyala Hatchery? It's easy sauce with H+H.

7 heros would be great.....

However then Anet might as well remove the hench from the game entirely...

Aside from locations where you cant have earned more than 2-3 heros yet, there would be absolutely no need for any hench in GW:EN or Nightfall.

Infact removing all hench might force more people to play together untill they find enough heros, by that time they may actually like people and choose them over the heros......

Henchmen are still VERY necessary.

Newer players won't have the financial reosurces or skill unlocks required to build an effective hero team.

As it is, I only rune/insignia/equip a few of my heroes that I use all the time. I see no point in wasting money on heroes I'll never use.

Keep the henchmen.

Give advanced players full hero parties, even if only on hard mode.

I keep trying, cant ever get it done Before you say it,ofc I'm doing the back way.

Hints please. Im using Me as SF with melee + elem ward, 2x LoD prots, Domination norgu (Empathy, Backfire, Cry of frusration, spiteful spirit, Blood ritual), and Zho, Panaku, Eli and Gita.

Damage output is fine, but the dying isnt. Im being careful to only lure one mob at a time, but its mostly the Ranger groups that wipe the party (Have 2x aegis).