Why have 25 heros to use 3 at a time?

If they allowed 7 heroes in PUGs, that is no reason to run out and buy them all runes and spend tones of gold on them.

I only runed my necro and elemental and all the rest are without, and they do absolutely fine. Better then most humans.

You can also use the /bonus pack to give them max weapons nd buy the very cheap core skill pack to get them all weapons account based.

Heroes are not hard to equip or make effective. You dont need to waste time getting them runes or flashy weapons. The key to heroes is being able to set their skills, not whether they can use runes or not.



Sorry I just dislike replies which go along the lines of..."Hey, they changed this thing or added this thing, so that means I HAVE to use it or max it out or I cant play!" Just because they added 7 heroes is no reason to use heroes still, and its no reason to feel you have to run out and make them "perfect".

You can play the game how you want, and you dont have to follow a trend just because everyone might want to use 7 heroes. But that doent mean we should get 7 heroes if people want or need it.

pugs bore me, no1 in a pug has any form of skill. Every time i pug, there's at least 1 guy with a retarded build, 1 leaves and 1 goes ''brb'' aka just wait till the we finish the mission. so i vote yes even if its never going to come

Yes, but people are still discussing, which leads to more people discussing, while I'm just saying STFU.

If you dont agree with something about 7 heroes you could always post and say why rather than just trying to kill the thread.

Because this has been brought up a thousand times before and been shot down every time. Gaile came in and even said NO.


You're still discussing it. How many pages of discussion have we already had? ANET has seen it. They said NO. Get. Over. It.

Yes but the reasons given were....crap really.

It wasnt in their design vision.
I believe they mentioned balance as well.

We already know the balance reason is incorrect.
And not in your design vision? Come on. Im sure a lot of changes were never originally planned. That doesnt mean they will never happen.

This isnt just some small petition to be able to change your hair or fix some armour clipping. This is a key part of the game.

I'm still gonna say the same thing I've said in the other thread: ANet doesn't want to add the option of 7 heroes because they have no idea what will happen. It's also not like we need 7 heroes, we've been fine without them thus far.

Yes, I would love 7 heroes. For me, the game would be more fun and personal. But I don't think any of us know what repurcussions will happen if it becomes so.

So if your local council said they were going to add a completely unjustified tax into your community or increase the cost of a local service by double or tripple, and the community protested and the council responded witht "We're not listening, we're going to do it anyway"....

...would you just stop protesting and go back home and put up with it?

This is the entire point of the guru and other game forums such as this. The entire point is to pick out what we feel needs changed and then have the community vote on whether its a good idea or not and THEN push that idea onto Anet.

Its how the world works and its how progress is made and its how things change!

If you felt strongly about something (whether it be a computer game or something more important which effect you), would you just back down because the company or business said "STFU and go away"?

Im not saying you have no right to /not sign this thread. But give a good reason why not, instead of trying to bump it every chance you get. Explain your view better then just "Anet doesnt like the idea, so we cant have it".

We protested about storage and other aspects for a long time and they eventually got changed. Im sure at the time Anet was thinking "god would they stop asking for this to be changed"... but it did.

Bryant gave a good reason why not to do this. Anet is obviously worried about the impact and how it might effect the social side. But with all due respect, they stepped over that line when they added Heroes into Night Fall. Allowing us to use another 4 isnt going to make anything worse then what has already been effected.

Anet also has to hold its head up and admit that the population of guildwars has become thinned out due to 3 campaigns and an expansion. You have alot fewer people playing older campaigns and sometimes its impossible to find a PUG to do a mission or quest and the henches just dont cut it.

They should admit that and do something to fix it. Either re-vamp the existing henches so they come in line with heroe AI and functionality, or allow us to use more heroes in teams.

I personally find it confusing why we still have two different AI's ingame. Heroes are obviously more intelligent then henches, and that problem should have been fixed when heroes were added. You cant have two different hench/hero AI systems in one game.

Either pring henches up to speed and on equal ground as heroes, or allow us to use more heroes!

Despite it being very ridiculous that Anet will not allow the change, but since they have said already that this change will never happen there is no reason to discuss it.

Because the change will never be happening, we can only talk on the forums about how dumb it truly is. I understand the logic in their decision, and yet we, as players can decide when its right to play with others or simply use the AI that Anet themselves have taken so long to create.

/Dumb

So why is this one 23 pages and still going?

I doubt anyone is going to mention something that hasn't been said plenty of other times. Probably in this very thread too.

In the real world, the city council would get voted out of office... or people would move to avoid the tax.

If not having 7 heroes angers you so much, stop buying A.net products. Hit them where it hurts. If it doesn't anger enough to stop giving A.net your money, then it really isn't a big deal (worth 23+ pages of discussion).

It hasnt stopped people from discussin other issues over and over though. People should just take it and move on.

I think the current way is fine, having too many heroes per person is just ridiculous. I personally tend to play h/h. I find it rather time consuming waiting for a party to form, and having the pug smashed asunder. I also dont have to worry about losing half a team because they stink at time management and leave early, or purely because they fight between one another.

No one can say. The mentality that "henchies suck" is quite prominant throughout the PvE population, and it could be the reason that some people don't use heroes - that you only get to have 3 of them. What if adding an additional 4 would really push that person to stop PUGging altogether, dealing yet another blow to people who are inexperienced and/or don't own any heroes?

We don't know. No one knows. What I *do* know, however, is that we're fine as it is. 3 heroes is just good enough.

[QUOTE]please try to understand one thing.

you can take 3 heroes and up to 4 more henchies............NO PUG REQUIRED
that rules out forced PUGing because they still allow you to fill the entire party .......NO PUG REQUIRED SO DROP THAT FALSE ASSumption

Anet did not state they were worried about what might happen they stated they did extensive testing before deciding on 3 as the limit because they saw in the tests what would be the result.

HINT.............one of the experts here stated he/she would happily trade all 4 henchmen for one additional hero.

4 henchmen for one more hero........must have a very good reason.

he/she did

in testing where a guildie moved the fourth hero as directed with the best skill bar he/she with their 3 heroes cleaned house on several very good high end NM farm areas getting 8 drops on exempted goodies with 3 empty slots.

with 4 heroes the guildie would not be taking a share.

this is not a forced social issue this is a power farmer issue

3 heroes plus henchies will do all except the elite areas where no amount of henchies would do it or HM

3 heroes plus the henchies does cut it

way back they actually did give reasons and the so called community said we dont like that answer do it our way.

...as long as you've got a few friends in game whose schedules coordinate with yours well enough to be able to do elite missions (several hour propositions, I think you'll agree) with you. Oh, or unless you actually enjoy playing a game with strangers who may or may not be completely wasting your time.

Anet opened this box the moment they advertised on the original box that the game could be played solo, and it's not going to go away until they make good on that. If anything it'll just get worse as fewer and fewer people are playing the game and even the folks that enjoy PUGing can't find anyone to play with. Sooner or later every game's community dies down and one of two things happen: it becomes a single player game, or it becomes nothing. I know what I'd prefer.

5 elite (and optional) missions out of the 50+ campaign missions, that's pretty minimal. Not to mention that there aren't any henchies in those outposts, a pretty big and clear indication that ANet really wants you to have to party with real people for it (all that coordination is really worth the time and effort: Them missions can be tough at times.)

Also, there are instances where people *have* been able to hero through them, so it's more a matter of getting creative.

Edit: FoW, UW, Deep, Urgoz, DoA...Okay, did I miss any? Hollah if I did.

[QUOTE]hasnt it been already established by the experts here that the *ELITE* areas can not be done with 7 or 11 or whatever number of heroes?

if 7 heroes wont enable you to do the elite few areas there is no need for more than the 3.
the box also said online game content may change so that is invalid from the start

you can play the entire storyline game solo and the optional elite areas are exactly that.

optional not needed for playing the game and needing a better quality gamer than the average player that gets squashed in the first 5 minutes of entering then yells make it easier so i can do it because i paid for the whole game i should be able to do the whole game no matter how bad a player i am.

There's no one here saying that, so you can stop wailing and gnashing your teeth. No one is asking for "easier," all we're asking for is the option to play them at all. You don't like that idea, clearly. It's almost as though you think the only way people should be allowed to play the game is by grouping with people like you. I wonder why so many of us don't want to do that?

Anet advertised a soloable game. Introduce areas of the game that can not be completed solo and you're going to get a lot of complaining. They can hide behind "game experience may change" and whatnot, but that doesn't change the fundamental fact that all areas of the game are not soloable and that makes quite a lot of their players unable to realistically access them. Apparently their "make people play together" elementary school teacher mentality is more important than the fun of their players. We'll keep that in mind in evaluating their products in the future.

And you can give up on hearing the end of this for a long time. Again, all games end up one of two things: single player or dead.

It's up to the individual whether that bothers them, I suppose. Speaking for myself, it's disappointing to me to have the high level endgame content require significant advanced scheduling and be inaccessible to me on a regular basis. I end up having to play other games when what I'd like to be doing is playing GW, simply because the friends I would usually complete these things with are (understandably) busy with real life. I guess it's not a big deal for kids, and I guess kids comprise a lot of the user base, but it reduces the overall fun of the game for me.

It is a soloable game. The only areas that aren't soloable are Hard Mode and Elite areas. You don't need seven heroes to finish a normal mode mission. Three heroes and four henchies can do that already. So stop trying to support your side of the argument with that reasoning, because ANet gave you what they promised.

My question:

Why have 25 heros to use only 7 at a time?

Eh?

I'd actually safely assume that if given the chance people would rather play with other people than heroes in the elite areas. For the average and even skilled player things can get pretty hairy in a full human party. There are a lot of instances in the elite areas where positioning is essential, or where a certain member/s of the party have to split from the rest of the group for a moment and explore a bit further on the map. A lot of people would rather have to organize and play with people than have to micromanage 7 or more AI.

I'd say so since a very large majority of the posts I've heard against them is their difficulty (which they *should* be difficult - they're "elite missions" for god's sake.)

If you don't really have the time to set up for the elite missions, I don't think you'd have the time to complete them (unless you are very well knowledged in the layout of each and every one of them.)

From what I can understand, SMS are not kids. Nor are most of the raiders in WoW. What you posted here could be a joke for all I know, but detecting sarcasm on the Guru is like looking for a needle in a haystack when the needle doesn't exist.

I've actually only ever vanquished with another human player only once. HM ain't terribly hard, just a little more strict.

Bear in mind I don't want you to get the wrong impression about me. I would *love* to have 7 heroes. It would make the game much more personal, interesting and yes fun. But there are just as many reasons for it as there are against it. The overall reason why ANet would NOT (whoops) make it 7 heroes? Because we can live just fine without them (and god knows what'll happen if there were a higher cap.)

/signed

why have so many heroes and neglect most of them. Everyone pretty much uses the same hero setup anyways 1 Ele 1 Necro 1 Tank and 1 Monk. But All the others are pretty much not used because those heroes are more needed then their weaker Henchies versions. No one uses PUGS anyways anymore at least most ppl don't.
So why not put 7? Even if it stays at 3 heroes it still won't change using PUGs.

Anet created a series of areas that can not be completed solo. Anet originally advertised a game that could be completed solo. People that play the game solo a majority of the time rightfully look at what Anet originally said, and what Anet ultimately did, and can't help but feel a bit cheated. At this point I barely even care, Anet's decided not to let me into those locations and I simply take that for what it is: favoring those with the time and interest to group over those that lack one or both. Considering that the design of GW2, with persistence and no AI teammates to speak of, its apparent that Anet's favoritism towards those gamers is only going to increase. Since they apparently don't want people like me playing their games, maybe I should take the hint.

[QUOTE]lets clear up a few serious misconceptions you have..

due to so called real life i can or cannot get in enough time in one piece to do regular missions dependably let alone the elite ones.

i have H/H from day one except for free runs to pre sear areas just for the fun of it.

i am for H/H the way the designers have set it up and actually believe them when they said this will result in a real mess if we give more than 3 heroes

and they delivered it exactly as advertised.

SF/UW did not exist with the shipped game

Because 8 is the maximum party size most places?

Maybe the "no 7 heroes" thing is a holdout for people that have Prophecies, Factions, or both, only. Maybe it has something to do w/ newbie areas only allowing a party size of 4. Maybe ANet wants to keep henchmen crappy so as to hold onto their last belief that crappy henchies plus only being able to have 3 heroes will "force" players to seek out other players.

One thing I never understood is that if a person doesn't want to play w/ any actual players, then they won't - making the experience less fun or down right frustrating will only exacerbate the situation.

I can't speak for everyone, but having heroes I can customize makes it feel like they're "mine", and so gives me a sense of accomplishment when the builds compliment one-another well or allows me to get through that tough mission/area by myself.

That is why I will /sign this.

Well, not really. While it was theoretically possible for a very talented player to complete Prophecies with henchmen, it was so close to impossible for any normal player as to be functionally irrelevant. The game wasn't really soloable beyond Amnoon Oasis until Nightfall came along (there's a reason I played Proph for a month, ditched it, and didn't come back until NF). I'm glad I came back, it's been a lot of fun, but I find myself thinking about leaving the game for the same reason I left it back in late 2005: I can't play the remaining content due to anti-SP game design.

Regardless of whether or not I think we need 7 hero parties, /signed. There is no good reason that this would affect anyone other than those who want it. I absolutely fail to see why this is something anyone can have a serious opinion or argue about.

Playing off of an earlier analogy: if it were comparably as easy to have a golden toilet seat as adding a few extra lines of code to a video game, why wouldn't you do it? It doesn't mean you'd be forced to use it..

Prophecies was originally completely soloable. The only things that can't be solo'd are bonuses, and they're optional. I'll agree that some NF mission's aren't soloable to most players, but when the original game came out it could definitely be completed by a lone player.

I think you don't remember RoF or later Southern Shiverpeak missions, I'll remind you - THEY WERE MORE THAT VERY HARD!... Well, they were impossible for 95% of players. Henchmen overaggroed monsters in those missions and it was not possible to finish them.

And it's a bit hypocrisy to say "Game was completely soloable EXCEPT FOR BONUSES". So wait - it was completely soloable or just 50-75% of it?

To those guy saying I cant justify my statement that I think a 7 hero system justifies GW becoming a single player game. Fair enough. its just my opinion. I have to give you that. I just think that if it goes to full 7 heroes that a large group of people will just stop playing with others MORE often then playing with a few people to get more powerful groups... Cause trust me, if it goes to all 7 heroes, the next thing they will want is PvE skills on heroes, then ability to have them capture skills for you, and so on and so on... That is my justification for the opinion. Give someone an inch they demand a mile.

We had henchmen always. they were crap but they were there. so they gave us an upgrade, heroes eventually, Again they are better then hench, but its there as an option for those times that you just want to be antisocial. Now they demand all heroes and dump the henchmen. Ok fine. do it. but at some point we might as well be playing a single player offline game, is all I am saying. I think that is where this route ultimate leads too. Again. My opinion. I want to discourage that route... But if enough people demand that, That is what will happen to Guild Wars. Its Writing on the wall. Anet wants to evolve with GW2 and give them the opportunity to justify shutting down GW1 servers and making it a single player game. they will jump at it...

Please, aim us to good replacement game, becuase i havent found one yet and i was looking for it quite extensivelly. Anet simply holds monopoly on tactical grindless (kinda) online rpg. If you want that kind of experience, you have GW or nothing.

Besides, how the hell can you hit anet by not buying products when you aready have em? its not like you can hurt them by not buying what you already have or by canceling subscription, and they know it, all they need to get enough sales not to care about you ever are covers on pcmag and whole lot of lieware hype which they are so good at making.

---

Btw: i remeber being told to STFU by anet (and their more zealous fans.) over stuff like extra storage or extra character slots. or account mergers /i NEVER forgot those/

My statement is not at all hypocritical (and it's hypocritical in your sentence btw, not hyporcrisy). Bonuses are completely optional. There is no benifit to gameplay whatsoever to complete them, especially since titles weren't introduced until much, much later. While the bonuses are part of the game as a whole, they do not prevent you from completing the game if not completed. They also don't make up 50-70% of the game fyi. Those missions you mentioned are harder, yes, I will agree with you, but I guarantee that every player can solo them with henches. It might take a couple of goes, but who really wants a game that can be played all the way through, the first time ever, with absolutely no learning curve. Because of my timezone I've often had to solo missions, even from the beginning. It's harder, but not impossible, and never has been. There's no point arguing with anyone on this, because it's true. Just because some people don't have the patience to keep trying if they don't make it through the first time, doesn't mean it's actually not possible...

You cant say certain parts of the game are optional while others arent.

Yeah you dont have to do a bonus, you also dont have to do some missions.

Its all part of the game, when you cant access certain parts of the game because you choose to play solo (In a game that advertises you can play solo) then you are missing out on parts of the game.

Hmm. Then bonuses are optional. 21 or 20 missions (depends if you want being Infused or do whole infusion mission) are optional. So in theory if you can't finish those 20 missions with h/h, that means you can't finish OPTIONAL stuff. You can't tell us something is OPTIONAL if it's not. Optional is farming/grinding. Missions you can't finish with heroes and henches (Jennur's Horde and Great Court missions are VERY VERY hard, even if someone is advanced player) are optional too? So more than half game is optional? Give me a break...

And you all forget - 7 heroes don't mean that anyone can farm in DoA/Deep/Urgoz solo. It will just mean people will be able to create an illusion of a well built team. Nothing will beat a good pug or guild.

Couldn't agree more upon that.

What? I completed ALL prophecies bonuses with henchmen way before Factions (no titles), let alone Nightfall heroes.

Different story (but not so different) with HM bonuses, but the original storyline was completely doable with henchmen.

Thank you, that's what I meant. You can complete the game solo, making it soloable. At least the original. That's which campaign was marketed as such, so later additions shouldn't even be brought into a solo discussion. The original game could easily be completed with henches, and that point simply can't be argued. Too many of us did it for it to be under queustion.

Pretty much everything in prophecies was doable with henchmen, even sorrows quests. With exception of elite stuff like fow/uw and some titan quests, of course that was only because henches were not avaiable or simply not up the task.