Why have 25 heros to use 3 at a time? - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Sea Edge

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2006

Black Eagles [BEG]

W/Me

05 Sep 2007 at 16:25 - 362

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Hints please. Im using Me as SF with melee + elem ward, 2x LoD prots, Domination norgu (Empathy, Backfire, Cry of frusration, spiteful spirit, Blood ritual), and Zho, Panaku, Eli and Gita.

Try 3 savannah's heat Eles with manual instant meteor shover.
Build: OgNCoMzEZVTTkYRkyAwAuAaE
Or 3 Splinter Barrage rangers

Boops

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2007

N/W

05 Sep 2007 at 16:36 - 363

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

I keep trying, cant ever get it done

Before you say it,ofc I'm doing the back way.

Hints please. Im using Me as SF with melee + elem ward, 2x LoD prots, Domination norgu (Empathy, Backfire, Cry of frusration, spiteful spirit, Blood ritual), and Zho, Panaku, Eli and Gita.

Damage output is fine, but the dying isnt. Im being careful to only lure one mob at a time, but its mostly the Ranger groups that wipe the party (Have 2x aegis).

Searing Flames is REALLY bad with only one Ele. Also, your Norgu is set up weirdly -- trade him for a real Necromancer and give him Enfeebling Blood. LoD heroes aren't necessary, as it's completely possible to do this with just the two henchmen Monks. Bring a MM.

wtf @ your henchmen choices too

bhavv

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2006

05 Sep 2007 at 17:36 - 364

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sea Edge

Try 3 savannah's heat Eles with manual instant meteor shover.
Build: OgNCoMzEZVTTkYRkyAwAuAaE
Or 3 Splinter Barrage rangers

I believe I have to use hero monks, but i'll try it the other way around with my Critical barrage.

If that works im going to shoot my foot.

Edit - The hench monks just die instantly, even through 2x shields up on the rangers and defensive anthem on my paragon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boops

Searing Flames is REALLY bad with only one Ele.

wtf @ your henchmen choices too

You really have room to talk. I am killing things just fine with 1x searing flames and the henchmen, the problem is staying alive

So which henchies should I use? The healers suck, and the rest seem to suck as well. I would like to take 3 monks, warder and a paragon, 2x SF and Empathy / SS mesmer (dont knock it, its the dogs balls in HM) which would clear every mob in no time and everyone would stay alive.

So heres the current bar I'm attempting, off to try it now. (Changing Shadow of fear to meekness, and res chant on me)

bhavv

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2006

05 Sep 2007 at 18:29 - 365

Har dee har har, My builds I were using before were better then your suggestions. Couldnt even kill the first mob with two monks, just party wiped.

At least I could get through half of the thing with Panaku, Eli, Zho, my Norgu build and 1x SF with my hero monks.

Boops

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2007

N/W

05 Sep 2007 at 18:38 - 366

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Har dee har har, My builds I were using before were better then your suggestions. Couldnt even kill the first mob with two monks, just party wiped.

At least I could get through half of the thing with Panaku, Eli, Zho, my Norgu build and 1x SF with my hero monks.

I finished it on my first try with no deaths and only henchmen Monks. I didn't use Barrage Rangers/Assassins, however (bad).

bhavv

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2006

05 Sep 2007 at 18:45 - 367

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boops

I finished it on my first try with no deaths and only henchmen Monks. I didn't use Barrage Rangers/Assassins, however (bad).

Care to mention what you did use then?

Sorry, I dont care what you say, I dont believe you finished it on HM with no deaths using 2 henchmen monks. That is just BS.

Boops

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2007

N/W

05 Sep 2007 at 19:06 - 368

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Care to mention what you did use then?

This was a while ago, but I'll try to remember:

N/Mo

12 + 1 + 1 Curses

9 + 1 Soul Reaping

9 Protection

[card]Spiteful Spirit[/card][card]Reckless Haste[/card][card]Enfeebling Blood[/card][card]Barbs[/card][card]Signet of Lost Souls[/card][card]Remove Hex[/card][card]Aegis[/card][card]Resurrection Signet[/card]

Barbs and Remove Hex are pretty optional. You can remove or disable them.

N/Mo

12 + 1 + 3 Death

9 + 1 Soul Reaping

9 Protection

[card]Jagged Bones[/card][card]Signet of Lost Souls[/card][card]Aegis[/card][card]Dark Bond[/card][card]Animate Bone Fiend[/card][card]Animate Shambling Horror[/card][card]Blood of the Master[/card][card]Resurrection Signet[/card]

P/any

11 + 1 + 1 Spear Mastery

10 + 2 Leadership

9 Tactics

[card]Defensive Anthem[/card][card]Anthem of Flame[/card][card]"Watch Yourself!"[/card][card]"Shields Up!"[/card][card]Vicious Attack[/card][card]Spear of Lightning[/card][card]Aggressive Refrain[/card][card]Signet of Return[/card]

--

I was a Mind Blast Ele with a few defensive skills and Rodgort's Invocation, but I don't quite remember the exact build.

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

05 Sep 2007 at 21:20 - 369

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Sorry, I dont care what you say, I dont believe you finished it on HM with no deaths using 2 henchmen monks. That is just BS.

If you're not willing to listen, then stop asking for help.

Nemo the Capitalist

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2006

Trust me you dont want to know my Chasms of Despair

Zaishen Brotherhood

N/Me

05 Sep 2007 at 23:19 - 370

agress with guy above

Age

Hall Hero

Join Date: Jul 2005

California Canada/BC

STG Administrator

Mo/

06 Sep 2007 at 01:53 - 371

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

You bet wrong, have you Hero heched Vizunah Square, Boreas seabed, unwaking waters and aborstone yet on HM?

Ofc you havnt and you think +3 or 4 to a characters primary attribute doesnt make any difference.

Why not just reduce all yours and hero attributes by 4 points and see how much of a difference it makes?

Take 8 on eveything instead of 12. Maybe you'll learn why runes are usefull then.

No I am not as the beastiery only has a few points in their attributes this is a well known.Take lvl 6 Charr axe wielder who only has like 2 in axe or a lvl 22 Stone summit axe wielder that has 4 in axe and if you took their armour lvl in consideration which the lvl 22 Stone Summit has 38 to 40 al compared to RP char Warrior that has 80+ bonuses.
I would never think of doing those missions in with heros and henchies.I would call on a guildie or alliance member to help out or a friend.I think that is the problem with most of you ppl when in a PuG and you see a good player ask if you can add them to your friends list.I would never do those missions with H/H as I know my builds are solid and work.

It stops becoming a community when player stop playing with each other and there are lots of resources here on The Guru.

bhavv

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2006

06 Sep 2007 at 02:25 - 372

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

If you're not willing to listen, then stop asking for help.

Oh I am listening, I tried his build and cleared everything to the turtles but one died. However there were definately deaths allong the way, particularly if a Mob spawns with two elementalists.

I just did Jennurs horde HM easilly in an alliance group playing echo unsteady ground warder. But I tried that in Gyala with the two necros, paragon, daeman hand healer henchies and it didnt kill anything (Only fire build works with it).

I also tried it with the same team I beat jennurs horde with, we had 3x aegis and 2 shields up and skill got spiked to death by the rangers (Yes I put two unsteady grounds on them too). Oh I put deflect arrows on my monks too.

The rangers in this mission are imba. I've been through every counter and they still wipe the soft targets. And no there isnt any way the mission can be done without deaths using just Gita + Sister Tai for healing on HM. That is BS.

Cobalt

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2005

Mo/W

06 Sep 2007 at 02:36 - 373

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obey The Cat

in my opinion anet will never allow us to play with 7 heroes cause of only ONE reason:

all henchmen would be unemployed.

Nah you will still need them until you can unlock and obtain a full team of heroes, and you would need to either play Nightfall or Eye of the North most of the way through to do that.

Plus if you only have Prophecies and or Factions you would need them the whole game.

bhavv

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2006

12 Sep 2007 at 05:00 - 374

All done with HM now finally

Shot at 2007-09-11

Found a good guildie with full unlocks and 2 manned 10+ missions in the last few days. Heroes FTW!

But yea, players like me and my guildie are rare in this game. Extremely rare, so 7 heroes plz for my vanquishing. I dont care if it can be done with henchmen, its too painful and unenjoyable.

Mavrik

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2005

Alaska

12 Sep 2007 at 16:30 - 375

If I could party with 7 heroes and myself... would be so sweet. As it is, I completed GWEN without using a PUG. Instead I used a rotation of Zhed, Gwen, Livia and Dunkoro depending on the area I was in. Then for hench I used the only healer hench, protection hench, warrior and guardian.

Considering all the gold we'd spend on runes and weapons for our heroes, you'd think Anet would appreciate it.

Sparks Dawnbringer

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2005

Los Angeles

none

E/Mo

15 Sep 2007 at 08:58 - 376

Think of it as a new skin on an old weapon. Jora is a lot more fun than Koss. You can have a new hero every day.

Master Sword Keeper

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2006

Dead Isle

Farmers Of Woe [FoW]

W/

15 Sep 2007 at 13:45 - 377

Yea this option has been in High-demand for months...Still no avail...

It's gettin irritating. I'd love 7heroes... It's just too annoying bringing henchies that dont listen to me. My heroes have to work over-time use twice the nrgy and exhaust all their skillz before the hench actually decide to pitch in.

How bout a little bit of leverage here... Throw us a max of 6 heroes...Then maybe THEN we'd be happy... Keep the high demands up. Sooner or later we'll get it. Popular demand denotes High-Shelf Expectations.

Jetdoc

Hell's Protector

Join Date: Jul 2005

The Eyes of Texas [BEVO]

D/A

15 Sep 2007 at 14:12 - 378

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Sword Keeper

Throw us a max of 6 heroes...

You realize that you already have the ability to do this, right?

Evilsod

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2006

England

Lievs Death Squad [LDS]

15 Sep 2007 at 15:27 - 379

No we don't. We have to first find an ally with a moment spare to lend you his heroes for something *everytime* you enter a new area. You then have to hope your ally has given his heroes equipment/runes/insignia. You then have to hope he has lots of unlocks to set heroes up as you need.

The only 2 times i've ever done this was when i heroed Defend Denravi on my Dervish (no idea why, i could've soloed the frigging quest) i borrowed a healer monk. And when i wanted to 5man FoW with heroes on my Dervish i borrowed a quite poorly set up monk because the only person available had very few unlocks.

While i'm glad that they gave the hench some decent builds in GWEN. It doesn't change the fact they're still crap compared to a fully equiped hero complete with Survivors, Runes and a Weapon with decent stats.

cebalrai

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Mar 2007

Mature Gaming Association

Me/E

15 Sep 2007 at 16:48 - 380

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keifru

Ok, so you want to customize every nich of your party; hence making it very very easy to do any quest/dungeon/mission because you designed each peice to work together.

Hmmm...something sounds wrong to me.

"To much of a good thing, is a bad thing."

But you can group with all real-people who are customized and it's okay???

Anyway, it doesn't matter what builds you use in dungeons. You can just keep respawning. It's impossible to fail them.

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

15 Sep 2007 at 16:52 - 381

Stop bumping this thread.

Sleeper Service

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Dec 2005

CULT

15 Sep 2007 at 17:00 - 382

its not even about the efficiency aspect for me. I like playing with interesting or "concept" skillbars, for them to be any good its a requisite that the other teamplayers have ultra specific and ultimately BORING roles that require either inhuman targeting abilities (jagged bomber) or no skill at all (nature ritual synergy builds) GW (like MTG) is and has always been about making FUN builds and testing them out for me not killing a trillion monsters in one hit (for me and most of the people i play with at least).

Synergistic team builds CAN be as good or better that the usual SS/MM/Echo/nuker/Tank/heal/prot/barrage crap that is forced onto us its just that the bar approach is a lot more indirect (ie: explaining it to someone will take ages, youll never get into a pug, it might not even work (as in kill quickly) but it will be fun)

Vinraith

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2006

15 Sep 2007 at 18:14 - 383

Quote:

its not even about the efficiency aspect for me. I like playing with interesting or "concept" skillbars

Yup, the flexibility and fun of being able to play with full team builds would be really cool.

Vinraith

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2006

15 Sep 2007 at 18:16 - 384

Quote:

But you can group with all real-people who are customized and it's okay???

Yup, as long as it's ok to play the game with 8 guildies the "7 henchmen make it too easy" argument just doesn't hold any water. What that argument really means is "it should be harder to play alone so you'll be forced to play with others," which brings us back to other players trying to dictate to me how I should play the game.

wolfwing

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

15 Sep 2007 at 18:38 - 385

Well the main issue is as someone said even with better skillbars the henchmen arn't the best to play with. To me I'm stuck using dual AOE fire mages *without SF* because any fancy builds I have in their place doesn't work because the henchmen can't pickup the slack in lower damage output. If I want to make a mesmer for interupting and such, that means less damage dealt, wich often means especially in harder areas, that the damage can't counter the healing of the enemies.

blakk

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2005

The Marble Clan [KING]

R/Mo

15 Sep 2007 at 19:42 - 386

Guild wars stops being a social event the second people beat it. My main character was born on the exact day that GW was released in the US. I have all ten professions. I have earned my skills my armors my titles and I still play. I am sorry Anet, your goal of making this game a social event fell apart when you guys made the PvE world, and the day the first runner, solo farmer, two man farmer, Solo mission runner ect came into existence.

The fact that there is many a multimillionaire professional runners in the game not only show that ppl have gotten over the need for pugs, and playing the same missions over and over. Run my character to droks ascalon lions arch beacons, the docks you name it I wanna be run there because I don’t wanna wait for anyone to fight my way there.
I personally spend time away from the pc mentally making builds to try out.

We know there can be disention between the die hard PvE’rs and PvP’ers. What united both groups is this: making a build and testing, proving and improving it either in battle vs’ some guy or against a monster.

My main character was born the day GW was released in the US. The day.
What keeps me coming back is not a love for being for someone to get on my team or let me on, just to say “you got so in so skill?” and if my answer is wrong…
How many times has anyone seen a team Pug looking for people but only if they have so-in so skills?

Anet the heart blood soul and strength of this game no matter is your pvp or pve is the unrelenting desire to answer the question
“I wonder how this combo will work..”
The social aspect you guys shot for is experienced when one player talks to a guildie about some set up they made, and testing with them, not “LFG Villainy” “no I don’t have…”

Equaliser

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Sep 2007

Hell

Mo/

15 Sep 2007 at 21:11 - 387

/signed

I agree totally. Why have so many heroes when you can only use 3 at a time?

The suggestions that henchmen make people want to group is illogical. You can pretty much finish all 4 chapters with heroes and henchmen. It is just difficult to get Master/ Bonus with Henchmen. However, trying to get the right people to do master/bonus or hard mode is just as difficult as playing it with henchmen.

If anything PUG is a good way to encourage people to go solo

mafia cyborg

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2006

15 Sep 2007 at 21:17 - 388

/SIGNED
i'd rather take customized heroes rather than hench....

Painbringer

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2006

Minnesota

Black Widows of Death

W/Mo

15 Sep 2007 at 22:17 - 389

/signed

I play wierd times, and I have to run away for life events from the keyboard. I can not PUG tooo often. If i did I would be a (^&*(^ AFKer. It would allow me to play the whole game. so please add more heros

Croco Clouds

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2007

Montreal, QC, Canada

Divine Illumination [LaZy]

E/A

16 Sep 2007 at 00:13 - 390

/Signed since last year

I hate PUG! some ppl keep doing that:
1) Tanking + aggro without permission
2) Die and insult the monks/healer (even henchies)
3) "Rez me noobs!"
4) Rez him and everyone dies
5) "WTF, henchmen do better than u noobs!"
6) he/she quits

Scary

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2007

Uhmmmm??

Limburgse Jagers [LJ]

N/

23 Nov 2007 at 12:30 - 391

/Signed.

But the question is will it ever be heard.
As it is a topic for so long but there hasnt bin a clear anwser yet.
Why the ..... so many Hero,s even with same proffessions if you cant even
use them.
There is no need for same proffesion,couse you can load skillbars easy with
the save /load build option

So again. give us the oppertunity to use those hero's as they should be used.

jammerpa

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2006

Sunny FLA

Omega Knights

N/Me

23 Nov 2007 at 12:35 - 392

I dont see why we cant have a special 7 hero weekend event. It would only be for 3 days.

Drop of Fear

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2006

W/

23 Nov 2007 at 12:42 - 393

i guess we will have 7 heroes groups when gw2 will be released and gw1 will prolly be deserted, yet the servers still up for a long time

freekedoutfish

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2006

E/

23 Nov 2007 at 12:53 - 394

While I would love for GWs to be a more social game and for everyone to PUG, I have to agree with the OP. There are times when you simply cannot get a pug together to do a mission and it may be a difficult mission to do.

Either because the outpost is completely dead 24/7 or because no one is being social there! It happens and it can kill your gameplay.

There isnt really any reason why we cant use a full 8 man hero team. It would be no more powerfull then a full human team and you cant argue otherwise.

I realise its to incourage us to pug, but as stated there are times when you just cant do that and you need more intelligent AI and builds then what the henches offer!

Anet has done this to themselves by releasing expansions the way they do. If certain parts of the game werent so dead now because of an ever thinning community, then we wouldnt need this.

But the community is thinning out and we have areas where you cant get teams together to do stuff, and henches dont cut it or make it fun.

Anets only reason not to let us use 8 heroes is to incourage PUGing, but that reason is also crippling some players and their ability to progress ingame.

Holly Herro

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Dec 2005

Kangaroo-land.

Blades of the Dingo [AUST]

23 Nov 2007 at 13:05 - 395

They want us to play the game for longer.

It'd be too easy with 7 perfect players. That's why they introduced heroes, so people wouldn't PUG and would pick up henchies, that are in reality, worse than puggers. Usually :P

/unsigned

It'd be too easy/boring..

Isileth

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2006

R/W

23 Nov 2007 at 13:32 - 396

Holly Herro please dont be yet another person to play the "its to easy" card without reading why it doesnt make it easier.
Heroes cant do anything 8 players cant (less because of poor AI and no pve skills). Should we remove guild teams because 8 organised players are OP?

/signed

Pyrea

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Sep 2005

The Outer Rim

Initiates of Maat

23 Nov 2007 at 13:48 - 397

Aye, I completely agree with the Op. We should be able to use all 7 slots for Heroes.

I really don't understand why Anet havent initiated this yet. It would make things much better for those that want to use all the heroes, and for those that don't, well that's their choice, but a choice it is, on everyone's part.

It comes down to that age old argument again; the players that tell others how they should be playing and that the game was designed as a team game and the players who say that the choice is each individuals to make.

I mostly play with heroes/hench unless one of my buddies shows up and then we'll play duo or trio with the rest heroes. But my buddies haven't been online for a while. Actually come to think of it, sometimes walking around the campaigns in the evening or early morning (UK time) shows empty cities and outposts, much akin to walking through a ghost town. My friends list is sparse these days. A lot of players have probably moved on to other things.

Personally I'm waiting for GW2 and in the meantime I will continue to travel around Tyria, Cantha, Elona and the North. It would be nice to be able to travel round with 7 heroes though, the ones whom I have nurtured and equipped. The others who usually get left out are starting to ask questions about why they aren't permitted to come out adventuring. I can't stall for an longer. I'll have a mutiny on my hands if things aren't changed...

pamelf

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

Australia

Lost Templars [LoTe]

Me/Mo

23 Nov 2007 at 13:59 - 398

Even with 7 heroes allowed I'd stick to what I've been doing since the beginning of my gameplay of GW, even before heroes, 29 odd months ago... I do all missions with people, and all quests with henches/heroes. It's too hard to get anyone for quests, because no one does them anymore except a few of us, and if i wait long enough i can have more fun playing with actual people in the missions, usually getting masters. That is never going to change, so it simply wouldn't hurt.

Tiny Killer

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Apr 2006

Oshkosh, WI USA

Exile Champions of Heroic Order [ECHO]

23 Nov 2007 at 15:00 - 399

I could have sworn there was another thread about this somewhere...

Drakken Breathes Fire

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Sep 2007

They May Be Dead [DEAD]

N/

23 Nov 2007 at 15:08 - 400

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tiny Killer

I could have sworn there was another thread about this somewhere...

There probably is. Merge em together, it's more signatures for or against either way.

Me, I'd love to have a full group of heroes with me, though I can live without it. In normal mode, I prefer hench monks keeping my hero slots open for other professions.

More heroes though, will allow me to be more flexible with who I cut form my lineup because I say 'need' Koss//Meloni//Dunkoro//Morgahn (to name a few) for a specific quest//mission. (or just because I dont like certain heroes//skins//professions.)

mr_groovy

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2006

Netherlands

No Inherent Effect [NiE]

23 Nov 2007 at 15:28 - 401

Here's a thought for Anet. Why don't set it up as hard mode?

Complete each Campaign and u get to unlock to have a 7 hero party. Or to put it a bit steaper, get with 1 char protector on that campaign to unlock it.

Newbies still would pug to gether, and the people who finished it can pursue there vanquish/ guardian / elite mission, whatever.

I say Win Win situation.