Why have 25 heros to use 3 at a time? - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

bhavv

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2006

30 Aug 2007 at 05:04 - 241

Quote:

Originally Posted by YunSooJin

orison is trash.
bring healing whisper

henchmen don't use ZB on themselves. Thought you should know.

Orison is not trash, its a very solid self heal and a long range heal too. Whisper is trash, he wouldnt be able to heal himself if he had whisper!.

I know Henchmen dont use ZB on themselves, but theres always two monks healing each other. Khim and Lina work just great, my bar is slightly better.

Qual

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2005

Denmark, Karup.

[PuG]

W/E

30 Aug 2007 at 05:05 - 242

First of all bhavv, it sounds like you guildies are plain stupid, why didn't you bring an interrup on a hero like the rest of us would do (I have prot of cantha on 2chars)?? It sounds like the people you know is the reason why people don't pug anymore... No offense....

wolfwing, you mention Diablo 2, tell me how many profs other than the hammerdin could solo Ball in hell ?

YunSooJin

Pyromaniac

Join Date: Aug 2005

Mo/W

30 Aug 2007 at 05:12 - 243

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Orison is not trash, its a very solid self heal and a long range heal too. Whisper is trash, he wouldnt be able to heal himself if he had whisper!.

I know Henchmen dont use ZB on themselves, but theres always two monks healing each other. Khim and Lina work just great, my bar is slightly better.

lol? What do you have another monk for?

Orison is not trash? This is the reason why I gave up responding to people about their bars on gurus/online. This is why I don't PUG.

The reason why orison sucks has been hashed over and over so many times that it's just funny that its been over 2 years and we're still discussing this.

Orison is trash. Find another skill.

bhavv

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2006

30 Aug 2007 at 05:16 - 244

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamRunner

If henchmen suck altogether, then why oh why are you able to complete all of NM in the whole game of Prophecies, Factions and Nightfall and HM in Tyria? Am I missing something here?

I managed but it was hard. The point is that I would also enjoy using my own builds a lot more. I would prefer not to end up pulling my hair out when I start vanquishing with hench. Im sure it can be done, but its painful.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamRunner

I disagree with the problem. I think the problem you are having is because you haven't used other options which are available. Warriors bring a lot of utility and great amount of damage, necro's are great with their hexes and have a lot of utility such as BoP, MM, tainted flesh, SS.

I think I ought to reword that. I have never used a Necro or Warrior hero except for in Dzagonurs bation and Against shirro. However when I play HM with my guild, one always plays on his necro, and another on his warrior that I have no problem with because they are great at it. But with heros I prefer my own builds that synergise with my skills, and Melee heroes are just bad beyond bad (Meloni was chasing after her own targets regardless of my calling in Jokunur Diggings).

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamRunner

So henchmen are useful if you are able to complete all of NM and HM in Tyria. But maybe you should try other people's build because it could turn things around? Because with the mentality of "my build works better than others" it seems you don't even know since you haven't even tried other people's builds!

I have tried other peoples builds who are you to say I havnt? And yes mine do work better. I would rather have an Extra SF, A warder or a splinter wep / Critical barrager, beacause they do the most DPS. Mobs fall in seconds in my groups.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qual

First of all bhavv, it sounds like you guildies are plain stupid, why didn't you bring an interrup on a hero like the rest of us would do (I have prot of cantha on 2chars)?? It sounds like the people you know is the reason why people don't pug anymore... No offense....

No your just being plain ignorant. We always have hero interupters without fail. They dont seem to be able to interupt very well though. We always try to get human monks and interupters, but there is never anyone available to play them.

You have prot of cantha and? I have Legenday protector, Legendary skill hunter, R7 HA (quit a long time ago), R3 Glad, And am working on the last two gaurdians and last carto TY. I do have a full time job as well, so I dont get much time. I would like to get more titles, and yes having 7 heroes would make it so much more possible.

Winterclaw

Wark!!!

Join Date: May 2005

Florida

W/

30 Aug 2007 at 05:16 - 245

Just because someone is running it doesn't make it a good build. I've made bad ones and I've seen others make bad builds. Then there are bad builds for heroes that would work fine if a good player was running it. Finally you have the problem where people aren't exactly taught how to be good players most of the time.

Omniclasm

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2007

Guild Hall

A/

30 Aug 2007 at 05:18 - 246

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Because my Guildies are usually doing something else? We have actually tried Eternal Grove / Vizunah / Unwaking waters with a few people. We very nearly completed Unwaking waters, but then failed before getting to the end the next two tries. We only had 3 people, 2 on one side full hero party, Me on the other side heroes + hench. We put a lot of consideration and effort into the build, but my side kept getting pwned (Was relying on Gita + Daeman too much, who arent bad but could be a lot beter!). In the end the other two gave up and I'm left on my own.

7 heroes on both sides would be /win.

I forget to add Gyala hatchery to the list too. Its four missions totally peeving me and my guildies off, only because we can never get enough players.

BTW...get better.

http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/8327/gw029cz7.jpg

first try....all hench on other team.

9:46, more than 5 minutes ahead of the Master's cut off of 15.

bhavv

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2006

30 Aug 2007 at 05:21 - 247

Quote:

Originally Posted by YunSooJin

lol? What do you have another monk for?

Orison is not trash? This is the reason why I gave up responding to people about their bars on gurus/online. This is why I don't PUG.

The reason why orison sucks has been hashed over and over so many times that it's just funny that its been over 2 years and we're still discussing this.

Orison is trash. Find another skill.

Erm, 8 man teams usually have 2 monks in them?

Do you mind explaining what is trash about a 5e 70 heal every two seconds that is unlimited by range or target? Orison is a great heal, people that think it isnt lack understanding of healing altogether.

YunSooJin

Pyromaniac

Join Date: Aug 2005

Mo/W

30 Aug 2007 at 05:27 - 248

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Erm, 8 man teams usually have 2 monks in them?

Do you mind explaining what is trash about a 5e 70 heal every two seconds that is unlimited by range or target? Orison is a great heal, people that think it isnt lack understanding of healing altogether.

Point per point, orison is a worse heal. If you calculate X health healed per 1 energy, orison consistently comes out as the worst.

Not only that, its low recharge fools people into thinking that its a good heal, simply because they can spam it. In fact, they're doing themselves a disservice by making the least of their energy pool on a skill that gives them less bang for buck, every single time.

I always bring 2 monks in an 8 man team. Or, at least 2 healer types. I don't honestly see myself being able to vanquish or do HM missions any other way.

Winterclaw

Wark!!!

Join Date: May 2005

Florida

W/

30 Aug 2007 at 05:28 - 249

Orison belongs on a heal monk skill bar most of the time IMO. It's cheap, it's quick, it acts as a step between no healing and lotsa healing, and it makes a great follow up.

YunSooJin

Pyromaniac

Join Date: Aug 2005

Mo/W

30 Aug 2007 at 05:40 - 250

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

Orison belongs on a heal monk skill bar most of the time IMO. It's cheap, it's quick, it acts as a step between no healing and lotsa healing, and it makes a great follow up.

So you're telling me it's better than nothing?

I agree, orison would be great if there were no other healing skills in healing prayers or protection prayers.

Your statement about 'follow up' seems pretty meaningless.

Omniclasm

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2007

Guild Hall

A/

30 Aug 2007 at 05:42 - 251

Orison is an average skill. It requires nothing special, and it does nothing special.

bhavv

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2006

30 Aug 2007 at 05:45 - 252

Quote:

Originally Posted by YunSooJin

So you're telling me it's better than nothing?

I agree, orison would be great if there were no other healing skills in healing prayers or protection prayers.

Your statement about 'follow up' seems pretty meaningless.

#

This is going very off topic, but lets say it this way. Whisper heals for more yes. But it is half range and target other ally. Only having Whisper, Dwaynas kiss and LoD would pretty much be suicide for a healer as he wouldnt be able to heal himself. The other alternatives anre Words of comfort, which heals for more if the condition is met, but takes twice as long to recharge. And removing conditions is a bigger priority then healing them. Then theres Healing Touch, which is a good self heal, but a long recharge and putting a touch range heal on the AI is just stupid. Finally theres Ethereal Light which heals the most but is easilly interuptable. Not really going to do you much good while your being attacked unledd your using HB.

Orison is pretty much the most solid all round healing spell out of all the 5e healing spells. The healing bar I posted is very solid, orison is the Self heal and back up heal for party members in the bar. Dwaynas and Ribbon are the primary heals for other targets obviously.

Omniclasm

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2007

Guild Hall

A/

30 Aug 2007 at 05:53 - 253

Quote:

Originally Posted by Me

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Because my Guildies are usually doing something else? We have actually tried Eternal Grove / Vizunah / Unwaking waters with a few people. We very nearly completed Unwaking waters, but then failed before getting to the end the next two tries. We only had 3 people, 2 on one side full hero party, Me on the other side heroes + hench. We put a lot of consideration and effort into the build, but my side kept getting pwned (Was relying on Gita + Daeman too much, who arent bad but could be a lot beter!). In the end the other two gave up and I'm left on my own.

7 heroes on both sides would be /win.

I forget to add Gyala hatchery to the list too. Its four missions totally peeving me and my guildies off, only because we can never get enough players.

BTW...get better.

http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/8327/gw029cz7.jpg

first try....all hench on other team.

9:46, more than 5 minutes ahead of the Master's cut off of 15.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

You cannot beat Eternal Grove, Unwaking Waters and Vizunah square with just two people on HM. Why dont you go try it? Obviously because your too noob for HM.

Bhavv, response please?

YunSooJin

Pyromaniac

Join Date: Aug 2005

Mo/W

30 Aug 2007 at 05:53 - 254

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

#

This is going very off topic, but lets say it this way. Whisper heals for more yes. But it is half range and target other ally. Only having Whisper, Dwaynas kiss and LoD would pretty much be suicide for a healer as he wouldnt be able to heal himself. The other alternatives anre Words of comfort, which heals for more if the condition is met, but takes twice as long to recharge. And removing conditions is a bigger priority then healing them. Then theres Healing Touch, which is a good self heal, but a long recharge and putting a touch range heal on the AI is just stupid. Finally theres Ethereal Light which heals the most but is easilly interuptable. Not really going to do you much good while your being attacked unledd your using HB.

Orison is pretty much the most solid all round healing spell out of all the 5e healing spells. The healing bar I posted is very solid, orison is the Self heal and back up heal for party members in the bar. Dwaynas and Ribbon are the primary heals for other targets obviously.

I'll agree with you if you only bring 1 henchmen that can heal in your parties.

Otherwise the fact that a skill is 'other ally' shouldn't be a problem, assuming you have two backline healers.

bhavv

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2006

30 Aug 2007 at 05:55 - 255

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omniclasm

Bhavv, response please?

Because My henchies got squished like pancakes when I tried? Have you soloed Vizunah, Eternal Grove or Hatchery?

Heres the build I run and tried in all the missions, it works in most, in ones it doesnt work in I improvise. The problem is I relly on Hench healers 99% of the time, and if they dont work I have to drop a ranger or the para. (btw Sin has way of the warrior too now)

Quote:

Originally Posted by YunSooJin

I'll agree with you if you only bring 1 henchmen that can heal in your parties.

Otherwise the fact that a skill is 'other ally' shouldn't be a problem, assuming you have two backline healers.

I'll disagree with you entirely on the point that I dont want dunkoro within half range of my attackers kay? I would rather have him at full range behind the rest of the party. If healing whisper was normal range I would use it on heroes. But its not. Half range and touch spells are bad, as are easilly interuptible ones. And Dismiss condition >>> WoC.

Omniclasm

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2007

Guild Hall

A/

30 Aug 2007 at 05:57 - 256

So that means it is possible, you are just not competent enough for it? So the game should be made easier for you?

DreamRunner

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2006

W/

30 Aug 2007 at 06:05 - 257

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

I managed but it was hard. The point is that I would also enjoy using my own builds a lot more. I would prefer not to end up pulling my hair out when I start vanquishing with hench. Im sure it can be done, but its painful.

I have tried other peoples builds who are you to say I havnt? And yes mine do work better. I would rather have an Extra SF, A warder or a splinter wep / Critical barrager, beacause they do the most DPS. Mobs fall in seconds in my groups.

The point is that you want the luxury of wanting to use your own builds for the whole group? I thought the point was about henchmen sucking or not. And it seems they don't since you CAN progress through the game with them.

Who am I to say you haven't? A GW player by saying its not hard because if you did you wouldn't be such a big problem in complete mission such as Unwaking waters in HM in which also OmniClasm had just finished.

bhavv

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2006

30 Aug 2007 at 06:09 - 258

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omniclasm

So that means it is possible, you are just not competent enough for it? So the game should be made easier for you?

No it isnt being made easier, all I required in Unwaking waters was better monk henchmen like the GWEN ones. It would have been fine then.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamRunner

The point is that you want the luxury of wanting to use your own builds for the whole group? I thought the point was about henchmen sucking or not. And it seems they don't since you CAN progress through the game with them.

The point is I enjoy customising my 7 skill bars and heroes and playing the way I want to play the game. And henchmen sucking is another reason. I would like to just make my 7 bars that would get through everything just fine. Im sure that is what the point that everyone saying yay wants? Also cos we hate pugs?

Omniclasm

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2007

Guild Hall

A/

30 Aug 2007 at 06:12 - 259

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Because My henchies got squished like pancakes when I tried? Have you soloed Vizunah, Eternal Grove or Hatchery?

Heres the build I run and tried in all the missions, it works in most, in ones it doesnt work in I improvise. The problem is I relly on Hench healers 99% of the time, and if they dont work I have to drop a ranger or the para. (btw Sin has way of the warrior too now)

I'll disagree with you entirely on the point that I dont want dunkoro within half range of my attackers kay? I would rather have him at full range behind the rest of the party. If healing whisper was normal range I would use it on heroes. But its not. Half range and touch spells are bad, as are easilly interuptible ones. And Dismiss condition >>> WoC.

Barrage fails, Crossfire is a horrible skill, your Paragon has "They're on Fire!" but no way to cause burning, and no attack skills on his bar. You have no Deep Wound in your team setup, and you have no defensive skills except for SYG.

Defense isn't solely the monks job, defense is a team effort. You+Heroes contribute none to defense.

Edit: You are SF, so there is burning for "They're on Fire!", even though it is still just focused on 1 or 2, maybe 3 people.
Edit2: Reliable Deep Wound.

YunSooJin

Pyromaniac

Join Date: Aug 2005

Mo/W

30 Aug 2007 at 06:13 - 260

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Because My henchies got squished like pancakes when I tried? Have you soloed Vizunah, Eternal Grove or Hatchery?

Heres the build I run and tried in all the missions, it works in most, in ones it doesnt work in I improvise. The problem is I relly on Hench healers 99% of the time, and if they dont work I have to drop a ranger or the para. (btw Sin has way of the warrior too now)

I'll disagree with you entirely on the point that I dont want dunkoro within half range of my attackers kay? I would rather have him at full range behind the rest of the party. If healing whisper was normal range I would use it on heroes. But its not. Half range and touch spells are bad, as are easilly interuptible ones. And Dismiss condition >>> WoC.

It's ironic that we have someone complaining that he doesn't want to use pugs because 'pugs are noob', but then he goes around stuffing orison in his bars.

Patrick Smit

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2006

NiTe

30 Aug 2007 at 06:14 - 261

http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/%22Ther..._to_Fear%21%22

thats making already quite some difference, but it is a PvE skill remember that. When complemented by other skills you increase your survivability dramatically. With my paragon I have the easiest time ever in PvE, but anti shout are hitting hard when u forgot to take some dehex.

Again ANet is gonna dilute the player population by another 33% with the coming of EotN (GWEN). Now player H&Hing anyway will not PUG, and Puggers will pug because the like interaction, adding options for 7 heroes will not change the way people will play the game. PUGgers will PUG, and H&Hers wil H instead.

Winterclaw

Wark!!!

Join Date: May 2005

Florida

W/

30 Aug 2007 at 06:18 - 262

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Orison is pretty much the most solid all round healing spell out of all the 5e healing spells.

QFT.

BTW, a follow up heal is when say your main like Heal Other is recharging and he's still a little low for comfort or got a little spike. Or maybe your warrior is using heal sig and you see something coming at him so you give him a little boost just in case but don't want to overheal. It's called complementing. You might not always need it, but it's there just in case you do.

bhavv

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2006

30 Aug 2007 at 06:20 - 263

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patrick Smit

http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/%22Ther..._to_Fear%21%22

thats making already quite some difference

I didnt even notice he was using that. I would love to be able to use that, would make the whole damn game like 30% easier. Thats obviously the main reason why you completed the mission durrrrrrr.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

BTW, a follow up heal is when say your main like Heal Other is recharging and he's still a little low for comfort or got a little spike. Or maybe your warrior is using heal sig and you see something coming at him so you give him a little boost just in case but don't want to overheal. It's called complementing. You might not always need it, but it's there just in case you do.

Exactly put. In my bar Ribbon and Dwayna's kiss are the primary heals. Also, if a target doesnt have an enchant or hex on them, you use orison. Orison is for use in case they are still recharging or if your health is low and you need a self heal. Its really not rocket science, its common sense what makes orison a good skill. People that bash it are plain stupid.

wolfwing

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

30 Aug 2007 at 06:22 - 264

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Well the main problem is the energy cost off the spells and no energy managements. Hero AI can really only effectively manage one 10e skill with an E management skill like Gole. Thats one nitpick I have with lina in GWEN. She has PS and ZB but no gole

If you want some good bars for your hero monks try the ones I use if you can make them out in this pic:

At this point I'm going to quote this very accurate message and hope furthur readers pay attention to it, because I cant say It any better myself:

Wich would you recommend to try first? and could you name some of the skills, a few like the signet could be one of two different ones hard to tell.

Omniclasm

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2007

Guild Hall

A/

30 Aug 2007 at 06:22 - 265

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

I didnt even notice he was using that. I would love to be able to use that, would make the whole damn game like 30% easier. Thats obviously the main reason why you completed the mission durrrrrrr.

35% actually....

But the fact remains, you are trying to use your steamroller build, maybe you should consider going a little bit more defensive? Wards, and blind and such.

bhavv

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2006

30 Aug 2007 at 06:29 - 266

Quote:

Originally Posted by YunSooJin

Healing whisper is just an example. Almost any other targetted heal is better than orison. Again, this thread is becoming heavy with irony, with you championing orison around and then calling anyone who disagrees a 'stuck up anal sniffing idiot'.

No you didnt disagree, you outright attacked me for using orison. Read your own messages to yourself maybe?

Quote:

Originally Posted by YunSooJin

Healing whisper is just an example. Almost any other targetted heal is better than orison.

No their not actually. They only are if the condition is met. If you like casting Dwaynas kiss on a target without a hex or enchantment on them, or WoC on a target with no conditions, you are healing for less then orison and wasting your energy.

Point made? Can your brain actually comprehend simple logic? A good monk (like my monk) Only uses dwaynas and WoC when the condition will be met, otherwise I cast orison. Healing whisper is never used, and Ethereal light is only used with Healers boon.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfwing

Wich would you recommend to try first? and could you name some of the skills, a few like the signet could be one of two different ones hard to tell.

The first two bars you should use if using only two monks. Also in that case, change shielding hands to a hex removal. Cure hex with a few points in healing is nice, or Remove hex if you dont have it. (Just wait for teh noobz to attack me for using remove hex

)

The three bars together would just be godly, but I cant have them without 7 heroes cos henchies suck at damage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omniclasm

35% actually....

But the fact remains, you are trying to use your steamroller build, maybe you should consider going a little bit more defensive? Wards, and blind and such.

The last time I checked Herta is a warder. 2 monks, warder, ToF and command and tactics defense skills. My build was based on NF henchies, maybe thats where the problem lies. But Cantha henchies are lamer then lame, except for Erys and Daeman. I just need the GWEN versions of Mhenlo, Lina, Herta, Lo Sha and Zho in Proph, Cantha, and Elona and I'd be happy.

zwei2stein

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jun 2006

Europe

The German Order [GER]

N/

30 Aug 2007 at 07:09 - 267

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

QFT.

BTW, a follow up heal is when say your main like Heal Other is recharging and he's still a little low for comfort or got a little spike. Or maybe your warrior is using heal sig and you see something coming at him so you give him a little boost just in case but don't want to overheal. It's called complementing. You might not always need it, but it's there just in case you do.

That is called "overhealing" usually.

If you want to top-up someone you use signet of devotion.

If there was spike healother followed by orsion is very ... meh. Correct sequence is to cast Reversal first and THEN followup with healing spell.

If you want to make sure healsig is not suicide you put reversal on warrior.

Dwaynas kiss will give better results with one enchant, especially when casters use stuff like attunement and there is prot monk in team, it is guaranteed bonus, ant its awesome in hexing areas (gwen is full of hexes).

If you want orsion for self heal, healing touch is better.

Orsion is average "meh" skill, and you can do without it, especially on hero bar which will not use it really smartly.

bottom line is, correct specialist skill is better.

/one of most irrelevant properties of orison is recahrge, if you have to spam it on recharge there is something very wrong... either with ones healing/protection or with team/

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

I just prefer this build for swords.

[skill]Barbarous Slice[/skill][skill]Jaizhenju Strike[/skill][skill]Pure Strike[/skill][skill]Quivering Blade[/skill][skill]plague touch[/skill][skill]sun and moon slash[/skill][skill]"watch yourself!"[/skill]

Okay, now i understand why you think that meele and sword damage output sucks.

Omniclasm

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2007

Guild Hall

A/

30 Aug 2007 at 07:25 - 268

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

The last time I checked Herta is a warder. 2 monks, warder, ToF and command and tactics defense skills. My build was based on NF henchies, maybe thats where the problem lies. But Cantha henchies are lamer then lame, except for Erys and Daeman. I just need the GWEN versions of Mhenlo, Lina, Herta, Lo Sha and Zho in Proph, Cantha, and Elona and I'd be happy.

That is why you make you+heroes self maintainable. If you have basic defense, healing, and damage with your "squad" the rest of the team is just filler. I actually like to try and have all of my "squad" be able to provide some sort of utility for the team, and do damage. I can't stand seeing builds that just have pure damage with no defense, and say "that's what monks are for". By this, I don't mean that everyone carries their own mending, I just mean for example, Enfeebling Blood is a skill I consider defense for the team. I have never ran a pure fire ele since the beginning of Factions. Earth ele's provide defense + damage. Eruption is a good example for this. But yeah, I make my "squad" the mid-liners, and if I could use 7 heroes, I would have 7 mid-liners. I'm tired and just talking crap now. I'm out.

Sea Edge

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jun 2006

Black Eagles [BEG]

W/Me

30 Aug 2007 at 10:09 - 269

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dragasa

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10166467
"the primary reason for not making a chance is that the team does not want to disincent someone from playing in a party with other people" - Gaile

http://guildwars.incgamers.com/forum...9&postcount=72
"All the encouragement in the universe isn't going to magically create other players in the empty outposts." - ChaoticCoyote

This post wins the thread.

bhavv

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2006

30 Aug 2007 at 10:29 - 270

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

Okay, now i understand why you think that meele and sword damage output sucks.

Kills a lot of monks In RA (Change watch yourself to enraging charge). Do you suggest mending, Gash, and sever artery are better?

For your post on orison, Heroes dont use toch to heal themselves. They use it to run up to party members and heal them.

AI is not Human. Hero and hench healers are best with orison. I am really fed up with people critisizing orison, it is the best unconditional 5e heal.

Its also stupid how many people keep on telling me to change my build. OFC I could change it If I had 7 heroes! Relying on Talon, Cynn and Aidan to do damage for me whilie I use 3 hero monks isnt really going to help, its going to make theings worse. At the end of the day:

Mhenlo, Lina and Herta (GWEN skills) >>> Proffesor Gai, Danika and Redemptor Karl. I cant even survive in the majority of Cantha on HM with all three healing hench.

zwei2stein

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jun 2006

Europe

The German Order [GER]

N/

30 Aug 2007 at 10:42 - 271

Lots of stuff kills monks in ra. In fact, RA is like open seazon for monk killing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

.. mending, ..

Strawman, much?

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Gash, and sever artery are better?

Can you really argue against Deep wound? Do your pure strikes/barbarous do anything remotelly worth not having ias?

DreamRunner

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2006

W/

30 Aug 2007 at 10:44 - 272

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

The point is I enjoy customising my 7 skill bars and heroes and playing the way I want to play the game. And henchmen sucking is another reason. I would like to just make my 7 bars that would get through everything just fine. Im sure that is what the point that everyone saying yay wants? Also cos we hate pugs?

So you do want the luxury. And it seems that the 3 heroes don't satisfy you. Also you want PvE easier than it already is. Not to mention you want a whole build to ravage through everything. I find this pretty selfish, and not only that because it seems that you don't want something that is challenging.

Apharot

Academy Page

Join Date: Nov 2006

The Bold Silver Dragons

W/R

30 Aug 2007 at 10:44 - 273

Some of you don't realize how easy you have it. The TRUE long time gamers know what I mean. When I say long term, I don't mean experience limited to GW or WoW. I'm talking back when games still required a little brain power and imagination..you know...no graphics...with words

At that point, your henchies were stupid..I mean STUPID. You guys think you have it bad now with only three heros, try your only options were to summon an animal, which wasn't very high level and lasted only a short time, or *gasp* having to be social with someone! LOL. Now I understand your point...there are some DUMB people in this world who have no sense. But if the game is designed to be played with other humans.....and you knew this when you bought it.....why are you complaining now? All of a sudden you want to change it, regardless of what others think/feel/the original intended use of the game? I just don't get how people buy or play a free game (in some cases, there are free games on the net still) KNOWING what it's like, then decide "I don't like it, it needs to change". There are a lot of people who do like it, and don't want it to change. You can't get everything you want. It's like buying a car, then saying after 2 years "I don't like this engine, it needs to change" then taking it back to the factory and saying "This engine needs to change. I don't like it".

Ajantis

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2005

W/

30 Aug 2007 at 11:00 - 274

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qual

wolfwing, you mention Diablo 2, tell me how many profs other than the hammerdin could solo Ball in hell ?

Well, that would be: wind druid, skelliemancer, most sorceress, trapsins,..

probably more but those were the ones I had :P

Obey The Cat

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2007

FFS

Rt/N

30 Aug 2007 at 11:00 - 275

meh!

anyone of you who wants to pug...... will still be able to pug even if we can chose to play with 7 heroes.

so.... no need for a discussion here.

haggus71

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2007

FotS

30 Aug 2007 at 11:12 - 276

Araphot tells it true. Of course, it sounds like someones dad telling them how they used to have to walk 5 miles to school in the snow, but point made. They have improved things a bit since they first came out, from what I hear(Alesia as your only healer? So bad you think Mhenlo is an improvement). Though if they don't give mesmer a primary skill buff soon, I'm gonna go offline till Hellgate comes out!

To bhavv:erm....even without a deep wound/bleeding, there is at least one better sword build than that. D-slash/sun and moon/silverwing? throw in flail and for greater justice? With sprint to cancel flail? Adrenaline is the key to every sword build, and without IAS and an adrenaline spike, you might as well get a hammer. Quivering Blade is the sword elite everyone thinks is cool till they find out about D-slash. Though it is better than Hundred Blades.

bhavv

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2006

30 Aug 2007 at 11:16 - 277

Quote:

Originally Posted by haggus71

To bhavv:erm....even without a deep wound/bleeding, there is at least one better sword build than that. D-slash/sun and moon/silverwing? throw in flail and for greater justice? With sprint to cancel flail? Adrenaline is the key to every sword build, and without IAS and an adrenaline spike, you might as well get a hammer. Quivering Blade is the sword elite everyone thinks is cool till they find out about D-slash. Though it is better than Hundred Blades.

I never said there arent better builds available, but warriors arent my speciality, My point with that build post was to reply to someone that said 'Whats wrong with Gash and sever artery', not to say 'OMG THIZ IZ LYK TEH BESt WAMMO SK1LLZ EVA 1111!'

Also PUG's are anything but social. The usuall Pug is a case of a random invite. When you ask about skills all they say is 'GO'.... Can we just Go? Go Go Go! Can we Go now?'

Then after you start playing, endure breasts and genitalia on the mini map and get caned:

'OMG your a noob' <Rage Quit>.

Its hardly how I want to spend my time enjoying GW.

gone

Guest

Join Date: Jan 2007

30 Aug 2007 at 11:52 - 278

what fascinates me is that monster AI lets them scatter THE INSTANT an AoE skill is used (HM) but heroes are smart enough to just stand in it and soak it up.

I'm all for increasing the amount of heroes used at once.
-having UAS will really mean something then.

to the people that say no...well, you can just do, what it is, you do...

Apharot

Academy Page

Join Date: Nov 2006

The Bold Silver Dragons

W/R

30 Aug 2007 at 12:17 - 279

Quote:

Originally Posted by flubber

what fascinates me is that monster AI lets them scatter THE INSTANT an AoE skill is used (HM) but heroes are smart enough to just stand in it and soak it up.

I'm all for increasing the amount of heroes used at once.
-having UAS will really mean something then.

to the people that say no...well, you can just do, what it is, you do...

You know, that really DOESN'T make much sense. Henchies are smart enough to say "WHOA!! RUN!" and the heros are like "Hey...what's going on? Where'd everyone go?"

ChaoticCoyote

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2006

Florida, USA

Imperial Order of the Iguana [IGGY]

R/

30 Aug 2007 at 14:03 - 280

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamRunner

So you do want the luxury. And it seems that the 3 heroes don't satisfy you. Also you want PvE easier than it already is. Not to mention you want a whole build to ravage through everything. I find this pretty selfish, and not only that because it seems that you don't want something that isn't challenging.

It's this sort of response that drives people like me away from the GW community.

Adding full hero parties will not decrease the challenge. If I want challenge, I'll play on Hard Mode with a PuG -- now that's a challenge! Or I'd play more PvP.

And here's a surpising fact: NOT EVERYONE PLAYS THE GAME FOR CHALLENGE.

See, there's this thing called "Story", and another thing called "fun" that may have NOTHING TO DO with "challenge." Some folk, like my wife, just want to play through the story and see the pretty artwork. She's a valid, paying customer of three chapters; how does her casual approach hurt anyone?

Allowing full hero parties in no way affects your game. So why restrict us? Just to feed your ego?