Why have 25 heros to use 3 at a time?

The reason you have 25 + maybe more on the way is so you can put them all in The Hall of Monuments for GW2 to come.

This is a Cooperative game meaning that once you finesh the cooperative end of it you would end up going into the competive part of the game.How do you expect to be competive when you rely on NPCs all the time.There are players out there who have no clue or idea what GW is and was intended to be a competive game not just another MMO

Anet is limiting the hero count to 3 so that we're forced to make PvE friends that progress at the same speed as us. Or join a really big PvE guild with a huge alliance.

Absolutely no one who uses Heroes instead of PUGs is going to suddenly PUG because they have to take 4 henchies instead of 7 Heroes. It was never that way in NF, it will never be that way in EOTN. At most, for areas where henchies can't cut it (which is very few), the PUG-hating player (which is a totally legitimate type of player, seeing as PUGs are almost univerally absymal) will simply take a friend or Guildie and 6 Heroes.

Limiting Heroes to 3 has no effect on changing someone's mind to join a PUG. Period. Therefore, the only effect it actually has on anything, is to be a pointless, fun-limiting, game mechanic.

They should definitely change it to allow 7 Heroes per party. It should have been that way since day 1. With all that new EOTN heroes it should be that way now more than ever. The only thing changing it will do is make a lot of players very happy. It won't make less PUG players available, because those who hate PUGs will never PUG, period.

Here we go again...



- lol PvE nubs
- lol PvP no lif0rz



This thread is clearly pointed towards PvE.

No matter what your feelings are towards it, you can't deny that it exists.



- remove PvE, it's soaking up bandwidth
- remove PvP, it's getting our skills nerfed



Etc, etc.

First off i hate PUG groups myself, butttt...

1. This is a MMO and a social game, if you wanted to play by yourself all the time, you can do it in a single player game not online.

2. Half the guilds in guild wars would crash hard. What would be the purpose of a guild if everyone doesnt need help or a group of pve players to relate to.

3. One of the main purposes of multi class heros is because of diverisity and liking. Also like Zhedd the danger ele. Always runs up to your oppents face to cast meteor shower. If i dont like my ele hero, i am able to choose one that would play better.

well i highly doubt Anet is gonna change the way it has been done for the last two years just because someone is bored with using henchies it would defeat the purpose of a guild, and friends in game to have 7 heroes.

you are just being stubborn or you dont have any friends in game.

simple as that.

What are you retarded? No wonder you're having problems. I said "Seven heroes are overkill for PvE as they're much more coordinated, able to react faster than, and generally lord over most players even with their limitations and flaws. You know the Hench/Hero/Enemy A.I.'s strengths, weaknesses, and in most cases you also know their builds as well." Get it? PvE. Although heroes tear through a lot of pvpers as well

Partial credit for this one. Outside of the handful of random HM missions I did when HM was first introduced, the only other areas/missions I've done were those friends asked for help on - Unwaking Waters being one of them - and more often than not it was a struggle with 2/3 people and heroes. Solo with Heroes/Hench only, I failed all but two HM missions I tried in tyria on the first attempt and failed all canthan on the first attempt, often the 2nd and 3rd as well (Turtle one on luxon side without going the back way comes to mind). But I got it done, once the realization set in that I couldn't fit the square peg in the circle hole. HM isn't really hard; it just takes a lot longer to go through all the hp they gave the mobs so you need to adjust builds for endurance. Long Boring Mode would have been a better name.

I didn't say GW was dead, just that an online/MMO game dies without the social element. But if GW is nothing but Alliance and Guild chat then it sounds as if it really could be to be honest.

No. Selling more copies of the game will get more ppl playing. Adding more fresh and less rehashed content will get more ppl playing. Adding the ability to use seven heroes to a suspiciously dead, dying, and limited supported game will do nothing in that regards.

Anyway, you've read Gaile's response. You know their reasons. You know that she won't be reporting anymore about this to the devs. But keep at it, trooper.

Okay lets get some facts straight about PUGS and why people hero/hench. Some believe that hero's have directly effected the amount of PUGS's. But thats not the case, in fact there are many more reasons for it and those also point towards a need for more hero's.

#1 reason for lack of PUGS's. Pugs themselves, yeah there are good PUGS out there, and some players never run into bad ones, but for many players it only takes one or two to ruin the idea of doing them any more. You either get on one hand those that demand everyone use skills a certain way, and the other hand those that have the dumbest skill bars ever and refuse to change them, or have totally useless bars.

#2 reason for lack of PUG's. The sheer size of the game. There are three and soon three and a half campaigns worth of outposts/cities and such out there. With most players congregating more towards the most recent areas. You go back to Prophecies or Factions and your going to be hard pressed to find enough players for a team. Wich really only leaves you with hero's/henchmen or guildies to do things. And guildies may not always be available or feeling like doing a quest for the 10th time. And lets face it some of the earlier henchmen were just pretty bad, even back when the game was popular. Look at boreals seabed. Took 30 tries with henchmen...though ironicly they did better then the one time I attempted with a PUG.

#3 reason for lack of PUG's. Guilds and friends. Guilds are easier, and more reliable. But even then as I mentioned before not always available or have players interested in doing certain missions/quests again.

#4 reason for lack of PUG's, the last and final reason. Hero's, this really hasn't changed it that much as some seem to assume it did. I think the majority of players that went to hero+henchmen were the ones like myself that either already were using all henchmen, or were stuck PUG'ing because Henchmen were not always reliable, but didn't really want to be where they were.


Now when you get to reasons for more hero's or even hero's in general you get some simple reasons.

1. Hero's/henchmen won't complain if you idle for 30 mins playing only every few mins while watching a TV show, or doing homework.

2. Hero's/henchmen don't mind doing the earlier quests/missions with you and are always going to be there. You all talk about if you want to do hard mode or missions just get players, well I think anyone with any sense can realize thats nearly impossible at times. Even with a guild your really lucky if someone feels like doing a mission they've already done, especially on hard mode again.

3. You can chose your hero's skills, and see what works for them, you've played with them so you know their strengths and weaknesses. You know they are dumb at times, but they are predictably dumb and you can counter.

So in conclusion. Will allowing 7 hero's effect the game and ruin the gameplay? Honestly? Not really, many players already run with 6 hero's and 2 players. Plus people talk about the game being too easy if you have 7 hero's...HELLO, 8 compitent players trumps 7 hero's any day and you don't hear people complaining and going, "They need to nerd the # of players and only allow 3 other players and need to take 4 hero's with them".

No here don't go agian as that is and was the way the game was intended on being played.When the game first came out there were more groups to pug with and players enjoyed it even on a quest.It made the game more fun to play and enjoy.When you fineshed the quest you could go do some exploring but now it is just being run here run there.I would greatly imagine that newcomers to the game figure this is how you play GW getting run everywhere then not knowing how to but together a good build or read up on it.I am a runner and have nothing against it if they are in guilds leader should educate them on builds and learn it for themselves.

I would really like it if Anet took away the Henchies and Heros for 1 week.I would also like to the 100gold fee lifted and Anet made it easier to recruit guildies so we could team up with them instead.

Just a point I think some of you people are clueless about is, if they removed hero's/henchmen many people that use them would leave or stick entirly to PVP instead of grouping, it wouldn't improve or help anything.

That would be the most unpopulated week ever, you know that, right?

This game is far far far from what it was back in the golden days (2005 till early 2006) and there's unfortunately no way to have those times of sprawling activity return.

Especially not in PvE.



All those who seem to be damning PUGs are forgetting that nearly every single guild in this game was formed through them.

The fact that PUGs are god awful these days, is simply due to the addition of Heroes. It's just become a lot more convenient to play alone.

I can't repeat this often enough about Heroes: Worst. Design. Decision. Ever.



Ideally, Heroes (or Henchies for that matter) should never have existed, forcing us to team up with people all the time.

Now that the evil has crept in anyway, at least let us have it all.

I hope it's a lesson Anet is willing to learn for GW2, even though they seem pretty hellbent on keeping the whole Hero concept going.



Anyway, 7 Heroes would, ironically, be the perfect gift for veteran players who have seen their old guilds fall apart due to them.

Some of us just want to head back down nostalgia lane and simply play again.

Gee another guy who thinks Hero's ruined the game and that everyone should be forced to play with every other jerk in the game. I don't know whats worse the fact that we need hero's to enjoy the game, or that you think hero's arn't needed. You ignore dthe points I made, hero's arn't messing up PUG's.

#1 reason again, just not enough players to go around for every mission/quest all the time even if they weren't off using hero's they still likly be very few in any of the older areas, or doing Hard Mode.

It's pretty much a lose-lose situation. The way Guild Wars is set up requires you to have a party for every single area in the game, and with the newer expansions, 95% of them require 8 people. The fact that you need 8 people for a large majority of the game is, in my opinion, a worse design decision.

This is probably why this is being changed in GW2, having encounters/missions based around party-size.

1.) Who are you to tell anyone how to play a game? It's like saying people are no longer allowed to solo farm for loot because it's not social. :P

2.) So guilds made entirely of leechers would disappear. This is a plus. :]

3.) I don't see how this is relevant to limiting heroes to 3 per human.

There is one thing I like about EoTN and that is no missions just long quests.It would be nice to delete all the rest of the missions in all 3 camps so maybe I might use 7 heros.

There are those of you who are forgetting we all asked fro customized Henchies so that we could change their bar around.This was suppose to be Henchmen only.

Right... those were the days. Been forced to team with retards, leavers, leechers and complete idiots to get through a mission like Thunderhead Keep because hench just didn't really cut it most the time. Truly a golden age, i couldn't do anything on my own if i wanted to...

Stop been an arse. You play it how you want, stfu and leave the rest of us who DONT like pugs alone. If i want to do something alone i want to be able to, if i want to go with guildies i will, 7 heroes isn't gonna change that.

Heroes didn't kill PuGs. Look at the people in this thread - the ones playing heroway never *wanted* to PuG in the first place. All those great people you PuGed with in the past? Yeah, they didn't actually want to PuG with you - henchmen just didn't quite cut it for them. Add that to the fact that there are now many dozens of missions and quests that require full parties and you start running into the real reasons for the death of PuGs.

The minority here is essentially arguing that people should be forced to PuG just so the people who want to PuG will have someone to PuG with. This is very similar in principle to arguing that all women should be forced to have sex with losers, so those losers will have someone to have sex with. Before anyone gets their panties in a wad, I'm not saying that PuGers are losers - my point is that forcing someone to play the game in a way they *don't want to play it* just so someone else has someone to play with simply isn't a good solution from either an ethical or practical standpoint.

#1 reason to use H+H? :> Becaues if I die or mess up it's my fault or the hero's, I don't have to worry about failing a mission or something because our monk neglected to mention he's a smiting monk and we have no healer, or half the team quits first time we run into some trouble.

With hero's 90% of the time it's likly something you did, or just one of the quirks if you have a problem and you know generally when this will happen.

Plus I would rather fail a mission 10*'s with hero/henchmen then spend 3 hours trying to get a team that quits thirty seconds in.

I don't see how turning missions into quests would be any different in finding groups.

You mean when the game first came out there was only one campaign. With 3 campaigns and GWEN the players are a lot more spread out, which is what makes it harder to form groups. Your not going to fing 8 people, heck you can hardly find one other person with decent eroes to solo the game with.

Now to everyone saying all it takes for a full hero team is 2 players, most pugs that I have accepted in the past didnt even have heroes, or if they did the builds were a joke (Healing burst, heal other, jameis gaze, heal party Tahlkora anyone?). It doesnt matter how much advice is given to these players they simply dont listen or take consideration.

I am fed up beyond fed up of pugs, as a lot of people are. They waste my time which I dont have much off while working 4 x 10 hour shifts during the week and the occasional fifth day of overtime.

i pug'd the second to last mission in prophecies campaign, the one on the fire islands, pug'd that shit 9 times failed every single one


next try i used hero/hench and finished it the first try with the bonus

Heres another PuG story - I were on my monk playing a good ol' SoR prot in one of the mid NF missions. I joined a group led by an elly and as I were the only monk, she took her hero. I asked her to ping, and heres what I got:

[skill]Healing Burst[/skill][skill]healing breeze[/skill][skill]heal other[/skill][skill]jamei's gaze[/skill][skill]heal party[/skill][skill]protective spirit[/skill][skill]mend ailment[/skill] and a random res.

Granted I said let me take my monk hero or just change your hero to Mhenlo (for the love of god). Instead she just enters so I rage quit. That was followed up by a PM war of her believing her monks bar was fine and she wasnt going to listen to me cos I were a rage quit noob. I think that was the last time I ever pugged, and the only reason I did was because my monk is my secondary char and didnt have level 20 heroes yet.

The memories still haunt me.

Stupid quetsion but what are the problems with that? OTher then of course heal party and healing breeze? Just asking for curiosity,

Haha, still trying to make a point by insulting? How old are you, 12? But I read just fine, you just can't explain a point properly if there is one.

Oh my, so now its gone henchmen suck in general to henchmen suck in HM, and now you cant beat 3 missions in HM in Cantha. And by doing saying some retarded insults like calling me a noob when you never use warriors and necro's. Here is the quote.

Shows your creditability very nicely don't you think?

But it seems like you just lack connections and blaming the game for it. 3\90+ guild wanting to do HM, and you aren't in an alliance? These numbers like the 3\90+ in a guild is hard to believe. But as I said, Henchmen could use some help in there bars, I agree but you've criticized me for even though it was in my first reply to you.

Dreamrunner henchmen suck altogether, whether its NM or HM. I dont like their skillbars and dont want to use them. I play late hours due to work and there are hardly enough people on. Even when they are they are usually busy doing other things.

And I dont need to use warriors or necros, I can make do fine without them. That isnt the problem, the problem is the four henchmen wasting skill slots on useless skills or having empty ones altogether.

Shows my credibility quite fine that Ive completed the entire game on NM, and HM tyria and only needed to use MM's in one single mission. I dont need to play the builds you or others play, I have my own that work better.

We currently have 76 in the guild, but have been on a full 100 in the past. But there was only three other people interested in doing HM in the whole guild, and they arent online at the same time.

Do you play a monk? I'll obviously steer very clearly away from you if you do.

No i don't, I'm more offensive, wich is why I asked about that so I can learn a bit to avoid problems with my hero.

I tend to play close combat orientated, my current main char is dervish.

Well the main problem is the energy cost off the spells and no energy managements. Hero AI can really only effectively manage one 10e skill with an E management skill like Gole. Thats one nitpick I have with lina in GWEN. She has PS and ZB but no gole

If you want some good bars for your hero monks try the ones I use if you can make them out in this pic:



At this point I'm going to quote this very accurate message and hope furthur readers pay attention to it, because I cant say It any better myself:

The bottom one, I am pretty sure that heroes will never use a signet, so you would be better off with Aura of Restoration

The middle one, GoLE is pointless with all 5 energy cost spells. Spending 5 energy to save 10 energy every 30 seconds just isn't worth it.
Edit: Ribbon is 10 energy, but still not worth it IMO.

Thanks..:> I may be a newb with some classes ,but I always try my best to learn. Sorry for off topic, but thats one of my weakpoints right now Monks.

1) The bottom one, they use signet if you click on it.

2) The middle one has Healing Ribbon

They can save 10-20 energy every 30 seconds, or save no energy at all. Power Drain is a good alternative if your monks have staffs, but mine have caster axes so they would end up fighting in melee. I really need to get some staffs to use power drain on them. Channeling might work better.

Then again, I dont really use my hero monks as I use the henchies, so I havnt really tested them out much.

I don't understand this whole thread, why don't people just team up with a m8 and there you go 2 players and 6 heroes.
I often pug people without problem. I hate it when people says pugs fails. I got my 3 prot titles from pugging...

/bonus

Gee Qual maybe because there isn't always time or friends to join up with? I for one will idle for a while while playing, and play at hours when there is no one around, plus some times I just like to go at my own pace without being rushed, or told to slow down.

That's fair enuf, and I understand your point. But this is a mulitiplayer game, so when you bought it, did you think 'wauw I can't wait to play alone with some bots' ?

Because my Guildies are usually doing something else? We have actually tried Eternal Grove / Vizunah / Unwaking waters with a few people. We very nearly completed Unwaking waters, but then failed before getting to the end the next two tries. We only had 3 people, 2 on one side full hero party, Me on the other side heroes + hench. We put a lot of consideration and effort into the build, but my side kept getting pwned (Was relying on Gita + Daeman too much, who arent bad but could be a lot beter!). In the end the other two gave up and I'm left on my own.

7 heroes on both sides would be /win.

I forget to add Gyala hatchery to the list too. Its four missions totally peeving me and my guildies off, only because we can never get enough players.

Heh it's a multiplayer game that can be played single player, it's like Diablo2 in alot of ways. I really bought it because I liked the style, the skill system was great, the ability to customize your char. I enjoyed Diablo series and was curious what the developers could do with a new system. This game has from the start been designed to run single player as well as multiplayer.

This game doesn't require you to party with others to enjoy it.

If henchmen suck altogether, then why oh why are you able to complete all of NM in the whole game of Prophecies, Factions and Nightfall and HM in Tyria? Am I missing something here?

I disagree with the problem. I think the problem you are having is because you haven't used other options which are available. Warriors bring a lot of utility and great amount of damage, necro's are great with their hexes and have a lot of utility such as BoP, MM, tainted flesh, SS.

So henchmen are useful if you are able to complete all of NM and HM in Tyria. But maybe you should try other people's build because it could turn things around? Because with the mentality of "my build works better than others" it seems you don't even know since you haven't even tried other people's builds!

orison is trash.
bring healing whisper

henchmen don't use ZB on themselves. Thought you should know.

henchmen dont know how to use sig of devotion. Why would you bring sig of devo when you can bring sig of rejuvenation?

They work well in HM Elona and Cantha, too.