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Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex
To be perfectly honest... Not quite as good as planting a Meteor Shower on his face.
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Why, o why is Gwen a mesmer?
ryanryanryan0310
Coloneh
that would stop him from healing wouldnt it? thats the point of shutting him down isnt it?
wilderness
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Originally Posted by ryanryanryan0310
Don't they always run around like chickens with there heads cut-off?
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Shuuda
Stronger mobs that need shutdown and Signet of Illusion with PvE skills = nuff said.
ryanryanryan0310
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Originally Posted by wilderness
Meteor shower = knockdown every 3 second. Times this by Savanah Heat = goodbye scatter, hello bbq
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Making her a mesmer gives her more versatile.
CHunterX
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Originally Posted by tmakinen
Well, if you feel that your heroes are not picking the optimal target, there's this little cross-hair thingy in their skill bar that you can use to gently nudge them to the right direction ... it's usually easiest to do that before the brawl begins, just tab through the mob to see what's in there then assign each hero a priority target.
A very simple setup is to have one warrior hate necro and one caster hate mesmer hero, and lock a target when something has to be subdued while the rest of the party does something else. This is not necessary in most situations but extremely valuable in others. I recently H+H'd Abaddon's Mouth HM (with bonus, of course) with a curses MoW and mixed dom/illusion Norgu and the pairs of bosses didn't pose any challenge at all, being well and thoroughly emasculated by the heroes. If you don't have enough mesmer skills unlocked (or enough experience to come up with a decent build - mesmer is the most specific of all professions and optimally you should cook up a different build for each situation) then mesmer heroes are indeed pretty weak, and a BHA ranger may be a better choice. Now that Gwen is a mesmer she'll certainly get a party invitation from time to time, much more often than if she were an ele (ele heroes are pretty sucky and unable to handle tasks more challenging than mindless SF spam) or a monk (for most part hero monks are redundant - especially in GW:EN hench monks are completely adequate). |
And for the record, I'm not bashing on actual Mesmer players. Mesmer is a good class for both PvE and PvP, its just hero Mesmers are not helping the image of actual player Mesmers.
I would rather have had such an influential character such as Gwen, who is obviously going to be used a lot (with poorly chosen skillsets, of course) in PUGs, due to the fact its friggin Gwen, not be a Mesmer and cast more bad light on the real Mesmers out there.
Etta
Bah! I don't know what the big deal is? Most people would just make her a fast cast nuker anyway, because they have no idea how to play a mesmer.
upier
Mesmer =
1. a primary with no inherent e-gain (Power Drain being used as e-management anyone?)
2. nice skills that require the idea of what one did 5 secs ago and the knowledge of the enemies skills to be played optimally (Diversion or Power Block anyone?)
Heroes can't deal with that.
Mesmer heroes - unless we are using them for their godly reflexes (or they are playing FC ele. Or FC something else.) - are a waste of a party slot.
Grab a necro - throw some interrupts on him and you have the best mesmer hero.
And this has nothing to do with human players.
BUT nonetheless - Norgu is a god!
Too bad that I can only have 3 heroes and so I need to waste my party slots on hench when I could have at least had a fun character in the huge shape of Norgu with me!
1. a primary with no inherent e-gain (Power Drain being used as e-management anyone?)
2. nice skills that require the idea of what one did 5 secs ago and the knowledge of the enemies skills to be played optimally (Diversion or Power Block anyone?)
Heroes can't deal with that.
Mesmer heroes - unless we are using them for their godly reflexes (or they are playing FC ele. Or FC something else.) - are a waste of a party slot.
Grab a necro - throw some interrupts on him and you have the best mesmer hero.
And this has nothing to do with human players.
BUT nonetheless - Norgu is a god!
Too bad that I can only have 3 heroes and so I need to waste my party slots on hench when I could have at least had a fun character in the huge shape of Norgu with me!
tmakinen
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Originally Posted by CHunterX
I would rather have had such an influential character such as Gwen, who is obviously going to be used a lot (with poorly chosen skillsets, of course) in PUGs, due to the fact its friggin Gwen, not be a Mesmer and cast more bad light on the real Mesmers out there.
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On the other hand, any amount of awesomeness wouldn't change the minds of those who 'know' that you absolutely must have 4 SF eles in every party for a chance of success, so I largely see it as a lost cause, and feel happy to be able to field two mesmers for the occasional task that benefits from that.
Edit: to Upier: indeed, in most cases a N/Me is by far a more versatile support hero to bring than a primary Me. There are usually two necro heroes in my H+H party, just because of the great utility value.
wilderness
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Originally Posted by ryanryanryan0310
Hey I'm not doubting meteor shower. But 1 meteor shower and you done for awhile and if you miss then...........
Making her a mesmer gives her more versatile. |
If you go back along the thread you'll see I'm strongly in favor of Me over standard E parties. No need to convince me how great Mesmers are
Patrick Smit
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Originally Posted by CHunterX
Like I said, unless you force the Mes Hero to shut down a separate target that you don't plan on killing soon (meaning, its pointless to have them shutdown the monk mob, you should have killed that first) they are gonna stand their twiddling their thumbs, casting a spell here and there. Honestly, I don't think I can cycle through and pick targets for two heroes to shutdown every 10 seconds and continue play my class efficiently...
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Etta
Hehe 4 SF ele will work just fine untill the destroyers turn up, after that hilarity ensure. 
Oh wait! I wont be able to use ToF as well then!
t_the_nihilst
Boo/hiss. No more mes bashing. I love my Gwen. Not my problem if you don't know how godly mesmers are in PvE as well as PvP.
PS. Shouldn't this be in the EotN section?
PS. Shouldn't this be in the EotN section?
Kook~NBK~
I'm Angry that they made Gwen a Mesmer! I'll very, very rarely use her with my primary character - a Mesmer. On the other hand, my other characters will put her to good use and let Norgu get back to his acting career.
I'm not even going to comment on the Mesmer's usefulness in PvE. It's been discussed before and the anti-PvE mesmer crowd is just too thick to get it.
I'm not even going to comment on the Mesmer's usefulness in PvE. It's been discussed before and the anti-PvE mesmer crowd is just too thick to get it.
Aera
gogo inteptitude/clumsiness
or
backfire/mistrust
etc.
mesmers are quite useful like that in PvE
or
backfire/mistrust
etc.
mesmers are quite useful like that in PvE
Malice Black
I wasn't a big fan of Mesmers at the start, but I have since seen the error of my ways.
My whole hero team is based on interrupting and crippling the mobs. The hench go in after to clear up the mess.
My whole hero team is based on interrupting and crippling the mobs. The hench go in after to clear up the mess.
Dzan
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Originally Posted by Exoudeous
Gwen pwnd the Remnant of Antiquities in the Sepulchre of Dragrimmar.
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cR4zY-n^
I will always use Norgu over Gwen. >:E
quickmonty
People who think mesmers suck don't know how to play a mesmer. Mesmer hate = mesmer ignorance.
wilderness
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Originally Posted by quickmonty
People who think x suck don't know how to play a x. x hate = x ignorance.
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gloria vander belt
this really gets up my nose when people talk ish about mesmers, 1 reason mesmers are good, they CAN dominate any 1 vs 1 in PvP, they can dominate in PvE, aslong as u know how to use the builds, like if i went anti melle against an ele of course im gonna look crap, but hell if u know the areas and what there packing a mesmer can shut them down, P.S. i seen a mesmer solo UW and tombs of the primeval kings, and it wasnt as slow as a 55monk or solo sin!!
Any way learn how to use a mesmer or just dont comment, cus i came accross plenty of ppl useless at a proffession but i always know its the player not the game
Any way learn how to use a mesmer or just dont comment, cus i came accross plenty of ppl useless at a proffession but i always know its the player not the game
upier
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Originally Posted by quickmonty
People who think mesmers suck don't know how to play a mesmer. Mesmer hate = mesmer ignorance.
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We are dealing with the limited AI of heroes hero.
Plant Power Block, Power Return and Power Drain on a hero and watch them use Drain once they need energy and Block on the spell whose line takes most of the foes skill bar. Shall we?
When it comes to advance skills - eg. those that actually have an additional effect after the first part of the skill's description - watch the AI fail.
And that's regarding the mesmer heroes.
(And of course that's not just regarding the mesmer skills. Maintaining enchantments anyone?)
And regarding the mesmer in general - let's see how HM with it's double casting foes did massive steps for the recognition of the mesmer class. The game is putting more and more emphasis on active skills - and those skills live and breathe off balance! So once you have foes cheating (as bosses and pretty much all of HM foes do!) - the balance gets trashed.
So no - the mesmer doesn't have issues because of the skills or the design of the class.
The mesmer has issues because of the the laziness of the devs in designing PvE. It just doesn't fit in very well because the balance, that is the core of the mesmer class, is near to non-existent in PvE!
It's an insanely sweet class held back by the stupidity of the PvE experience!
The mesmer can still leave a mark though.
But the big question is - can the other classes do it better?
gloria vander belt
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Originally Posted by upier
I am sorry - but this is just as ignorant as the statement you are going against.
We are dealing with the limited AI of heroes hero. Plant Power Block, Power Return and Power Drain on a hero and watch them use Drain once they need energy and Block on the spell whose line takes most of the foes skill bar. Shall we? When it comes to advance skills - eg. those that actually have an additional effect after the first part of the skill's description - watch the AI fail. And that's regarding the mesmer heroes. (And of course that's not just regarding the mesmer skills. Maintaining enchantments anyone?) And regarding the mesmer in general - let's see how HM with it's double casting foes did massive steps for the recognition of the mesmer class. The game is putting more and more emphasis on active skills - and those skills live and breathe off balance! So once you have foes cheating (as bosses and pretty much all of HM foes do!) - the balance gets trashed. So no - the mesmer doesn't have issues because of the skills or the design of the class. The mesmer has issues because of the the laziness of the devs in designing PvE. It just doesn't fit in very well because the balance, that is the core of the mesmer class, is near to non-existent in PvE! It's an insanely sweet class held back by the stupidity of the PvE experience! The mesmer can still leave a mark though. But the big question is - can the other classes do it better? |
P.S Mods/admin delete this useless thread!!!
gloria vander belt
my bad i read ur post completely wrong
yes A-Net was lazy in its design!!
yes A-Net was lazy in its design!!
kravex
She's annoying in the first game, so being a Mesmer is fitting :-)
iridescentfyre
In pre-searing, she said she admired Lady Althea and someday wanted to be a Mesmer just like her. Oh and by the way, welcome to Guild Wars, a game in which Mesmer is the most underrated class imaginable.
tmakinen
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Originally Posted by iridescentfyre
welcome to Guild Wars, a game in which Mesmer is the most underrated class imaginable.
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Yanman.be
Lol, Coloneh, epic trolling.
wilebill
Matter of indifference what she is, really, Coloneh. If you played through Nightfall, you are overstocked on heroes anyway. Just use her on quests and other activities where she is required. Meh.
Any class in the game can be powerful, but only if you've played one of those and know basically how the class works. It also helps to have a wide selection of the class skills to choose from.
Mesmers are probably the least popular, especially with action-oriented younger players, and hence your supply of Mesmer skills is probably somewhat limited.
Mesmers are for subtle and sneaky older players who like to put nails in your tires while you're eating lunch!
Any class in the game can be powerful, but only if you've played one of those and know basically how the class works. It also helps to have a wide selection of the class skills to choose from.
Mesmers are probably the least popular, especially with action-oriented younger players, and hence your supply of Mesmer skills is probably somewhat limited.
Mesmers are for subtle and sneaky older players who like to put nails in your tires while you're eating lunch!
Mister O
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Originally Posted by Coloneh
still pissed. tmesmers suck at PvE. theres no place in my party for a character just because she has pretty clothes.
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pkodyssey
Coloneh
You need to open the mind. Mesmers r0x0r the big 11!!!11one!1!.
I use a 6 way interrupt build with Psychic Instability. Everything gets interrupted and knocked down.
WOOT!
You need to open the mind. Mesmers r0x0r the big 11!!!11one!1!.
I use a 6 way interrupt build with Psychic Instability. Everything gets interrupted and knocked down.
WOOT!
Darkobra
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Originally Posted by MMSDome
your right mesmers are totally useless why have mesmer heros.
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Komes I
Mesmers do rock in both PvE and... man i hate to fight Mesmer in PvP. They make me kick my own ass and to feel good about it.
EternalTempest
All I know is with Gwen set up as an Intrupt any mob I fight has Great difficulty casting anything, and if your an elite your going down so fast it's not funny.
your going down so fast it's not funny.
Floski
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Originally Posted by tmakinen
Ever tried to tell that to, well, quite many monsters in PvE? Rotscale and Glint come to mind, just last night did Boreas HM and Argo and Zhu Hanuku were both much nicer to meet with a competent shutdown ranger in the party. Heck, several Factions and NF ele and rit bosses instawipe your party in HM without proper shutdown.
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Can someone tell me where a mesmer would be better than say a curse necro or a BHA ranger? Monster fights never last long enough for diversion to be handy. And it's not like monsters say OMG I GOT DIVERSION ON ME, I BETTER STOP CASTING FOR 6 SECONDS.
Pwny Ride
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Originally Posted by Floski
And it's not like monsters say OMG I GOT DIVERSION ON ME, I BETTER STOP CASTING FOR 6 SECONDS.
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Toutatis
Mesmers, and while hero AI might not be totally effective all the time, are still killers in PvE. The issue with an interrupt ranger using BHA is that the Dazed condition only causes interrupts when you're attacking the dazed monster. What if there's another monster nearby who represents the same threat? Most of the BHA rangers I've run into don't know how to fully utilise the elite's abilities by going off-target to interrupt something else, and no hero AI can do that either unless you micromanage targeting.
Power Block on its own is insanely good as it doesn't just interrupt an enemy caster - 99% of the time in PvE it will also completely shut them down. This is where micromanagement comes in for hero mesmers; the trick is getting them to shut down a different target to the one that the rest of the team is beating up. Once you've learned how do do that, having Norgu or Gwen around adds a tremendous boost to your chances of survival. Of course, add a competent BHA ranger into the mix as well and you have 2 spellcasters shut down and one other monster interrupted. Someone tell me why that is not useful considering the number of enemies you're up against in PvE.
Power Block on its own is insanely good as it doesn't just interrupt an enemy caster - 99% of the time in PvE it will also completely shut them down. This is where micromanagement comes in for hero mesmers; the trick is getting them to shut down a different target to the one that the rest of the team is beating up. Once you've learned how do do that, having Norgu or Gwen around adds a tremendous boost to your chances of survival. Of course, add a competent BHA ranger into the mix as well and you have 2 spellcasters shut down and one other monster interrupted. Someone tell me why that is not useful considering the number of enemies you're up against in PvE.
Floski
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Originally Posted by Pwny Ride
...you...fail?
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| What if there's another monster nearby who represents the same threat? |
Yes this whole "mesmers are awesome in PvE!" fad is amazingly cute. Some attempt to make PvEer's feel like PvE isn't more than just tank, kill, heal, move on. Not every class needs to be great in both PvP and PvE. I'd rather have minions that cause bleeding and poison, and AoE armor ignoring damage, 3 Eles with met shower and searing flames and mark of rodgorts, 1 BHA ranger with interupts and more poison spreading, and a few monks to keep the party alive.
cR4zY-n^
Mesmers are a great class just like anything else.
Kyp Jade
Mesmers are fun, and a skill like Cry of Frustration is just win, I always take that when I play a caster.
Guild Wars
Tank/Nuke/Heal/Screw Things Up
Common Misconception
Tank/Nuke/Heal/What else do we need
Guild Wars
Tank/Nuke/Heal/Screw Things Up
Common Misconception
Tank/Nuke/Heal/What else do we need