Why, o why is Gwen a mesmer? - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Jennie

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2007

Newfoundland, Canada

The City Below [Down]

R/Rt

02 Sep 2007 at 19:38 - 161

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

Energy storage ans Soul Reaping are just more useful. take that picture above for example, is that GoLE i spy? the character would be more effective as an ele primary. more energy reserves are always useful.

That can be countered with br as I mentioned before. Just take a neco on the team, which I do mostly anyway and no energy problems at all. So, with the energy out of the way all that is left is the advantage of FC which the other profs dont have. The only thing going for eles and necros are the energy. I would norm take a necro with me anyway so I dont consider it much of a problem to stick br on them and take a mesmer for the damage. Or, for that matter change my secondary to n and take br.. either way, getting energy is not a problem.

Earth

Always Outnumbered

Join Date: Jul 2006

02 Sep 2007 at 19:57 - 162

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

Energy storage ans Soul Reaping are just more useful. take that picture above for example, is that GoLE i spy? the character would be more effective as an ele primary. more energy reserves are always useful.

So what you're saying is, every build or character that uses GoLE should be an ele primary? I'm guessing all the monks with Aegis + GoLE should be ele primaries then, because more energy reserves are always useful. Your logic makes no sense.

Cebe

The 5th Celestial Boss

Join Date: Jul 2006

Inverness, Scotland

The Cult of Scaro [WHO]

E/

02 Sep 2007 at 21:32 - 163

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

Why did Anet make the Gwen hero a mesmer? I wanted to use her, not have her gather dust.

Lol....

Your statement is so stereotypical of most players with the profession combination Warrior/Monk. I feel sorry for you.

My Gwen will be getting use, though I feel a loyalty to Norgu, as he has been with me longer.

Age

Hall Hero

Join Date: Jul 2005

California Canada/BC

STG Administrator

Mo/

02 Sep 2007 at 21:48 - 164

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Earth X

So what you're saying is, every build or character that uses GoLE should be an ele primary? I'm guessing all the monks with Aegis + GoLE should be ele primaries then, because more energy reserves are always useful. Your logic makes no sense.

It wasn't just Monks that were chaining it it was Eles and Necros.

Back on topic Gwens mother wanted her to become a Monk but Gwen really wanted to become a Mesmer.Wait till she finds out.

Coloneh

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Nov 2006

D/W

02 Sep 2007 at 21:51 - 165

Quote:

Originally Posted by X Earth X

So what you're saying is, every build or character that uses GoLE should be an ele primary? I'm guessing all the monks with Aegis + GoLE should be ele primaries then, because more energy reserves are always useful. Your logic makes no sense.

no, my point was that if a character isnt utilizing their primary profession then they might as well be a primary that provides an advantage.

A11Eur0

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2005

W/

02 Sep 2007 at 21:57 - 166

So glad I got EOTN before nightfall...now I won't have to bother with that fat sombrero-eating Norgu.

My Gwen was pwning...and before I got EOTN, every hench group I took had the mesmer hench in it. Now to figure out if heroes attack just my target or can cycle between targets with priority on their own.

gasmaskman

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2006

None, I don't play anymore.

Mo/W

02 Sep 2007 at 22:32 - 167

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

no, my point was that if a character isnt utilizing their primary profession then they might as well be a primary that provides an advantage.

One seems to be forgetting runes and how +2-4 (even one) can really make a difference. And why would you go E/Me and using GOLE when there aren't even any 15 energy skills on the mesmers bar?

Croco Clouds

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2007

Montreal, QC, Canada

Divine Illumination [LaZy]

E/A

02 Sep 2007 at 22:38 - 168

Luckily Livia is a necro, MM ftw lol

yesitsrob

Elite Guru

Join Date: Sep 2005

Manchester, England

SMS/Victrix

02 Sep 2007 at 22:51 - 169

Sorry to be blunt here but mesmers simply don't do key jobs in PVE as well as other characters do.

Caster Mobs - BHA Epidemic ranger provide much better shutdown - with the AI not amazing at removing conditions you can convincingly shut down any caster and be able to interrupt much more frequently than with a mesmer, you'll also be able to catch the shorter casts much more convincingly, even though it is by luck, with many targets smashing away and the only condition to be to hit them, it will happen quite frequently. Also worth noting that there isn't a great deal of solid condition removal on enemy mobs, with the only RC being in some corner of abaddon's mouth. sometimes.

Melee Mobs - It's all about the Curse Necros really. Enfeebling Blood being the main skill, Reckless and Spitefull make great additions as it also gives them respectable damage that the enemy AI will happily kill themselves with. Clumsiness is a good skill but really doesn'y quite do the job as well against the larger mobs. Ineptitude is just bad. Spirit of Failure is nice, and generally when you want a mesmer to shut down melee mobs they would be better off going as a FC Curses.

Damage - Their damage output isn't great really, sure some caster mobs might kill themselves on that ridiculously long recharign backfire, and maybe you can spam wastrel's on a boss because it ends faster - But your DPS will never compare to that of a Warrior or a Paragon.

Support - Again, they just can't quite support your party like say a Paragon.

They are generally not misunderstood in PVE. Misunderstanding them would be to say they are a good PVE class. Sure they can do some things.. at some times.... yeah someone can go and bring up the shitty.. "my mesmer can solo a monk boss" argument. In general though they just aren't that great at PVE, yes go ahead and tell me how bad I am at GW now and how I don't understand the rolls of a mesmer, k.

As far as holy trinities goes.. tbh. In human partoes, the only 3 classes that remain consistent in my groups are Paragons, Necromancers and Monks, and generally I like the others to be Warriors, ocassionally a Ranger.

Avarre

Bubblegum Patrol

Join Date: Dec 2005

Singapore Armed Forces

03 Sep 2007 at 02:36 - 170

Quote:

Originally Posted by yesitsrob

They are generally not misunderstood in PVE. Misunderstanding them would be to say they are a good PVE class.

This needs to be read.

haggus71

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2007

FotS

03 Sep 2007 at 02:58 - 171

Jesus, but I'm gonna eat shit for saying this....

As far as PvE goes, yesitsrob and coloneh are right. When Prophecies was out, they were great. Even going through Factions they can hold their own. Once you hit Nightfall, however, it's all downhill. Yeah, argue about the great Cry of Pain and E-Surge, or all the caster interrupts. You hit 3 or more casters at lvl22+ and you....are....screwed without a decent backup of guildies or heroes. The battle lasts too long and you worry too much about your e-regen and skill recharge. Yes, a mesmer can make a difference in the battle, but not in the way a ranger or paragon can. Hell, a simple Moebius/Death Blossom sin build and I waltz through EotN and pwn that fat f'er Bison's ass. A good ranger can interrupt spike a caster with S-shot/D-Shot and BHA and he is DONE. On his own. Next target, please.

I do think the Mesmer is a fun character to play, and can be a useful part of a team. However, fast casting is too weak a primary, and until the game or the class is changed, the mesmer will remain in the situation it's in, getting grief from everyone and their mom.

Don't bitch at them for pointing out the faults. Bitch at Anet for making mesmer the one class that no one wants to play with. The sad thing is, Mesmer bosses/monsters show what the mesmer was supposed to be, with their faster cast and energy up the wazoo. We should say,"GG Anet. You show love for the mesmer by creating all these great mesmer monsters, yet do nothing for the actual player".

You gotta wonder if the guy who created the mesmer left the company, from the hate it gets.

So yeah, stick to owning PvP, because in PvE there are just too many better choices, thanks to the way Anet has set it up.

Patrick Smit

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2006

NiTe

03 Sep 2007 at 06:01 - 172

went in with 4 mesmers (Gwen, Norgu, hench, and I), a necro (Olias), earth hench (hertha) and the two monk hench. Gwen was quite a slaughterfest after adding some sigs of disenchant against annoying spells like obs flesh and spellbreaker. Sometimes Gwen showed a bit too courageuous, but after all the penetration of domination combined with some inspiration is very nice.

I gave Gwen a req9 butterfly mirror too

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

.....E-Denial was great, and its been nerfed very heavily, and that doesnt work as well in PVE anyway.....

I'm not sure whether this is a valid claim, you can still do the damage using burn, surge, and mindwrack sets off, that was actually the base of the build. with three dom mesmers there is little energy they spend and spend it gets interrupted with leak or drain resulting in a failed spell and possibly extra damage due mind wrack. It probably could be better, but okay they wanted to prevent abuse at anet I guess

Matfei

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2006

Australia

None. Being a loner X-Fire: matfei1

W/Mo

03 Sep 2007 at 07:27 - 173

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver

Lol....

Your statement is so stereotypical of most players with the profession combination Warrior/Monk. I feel sorry for you.with me longer.

That's a bit subjective. I still use a W/Mo successfully in PvE, yet I dont make qualms about such trivial things as 'Ugh, why have so many heroes when we can only use 3' and such.

In rebuttal, you're statement is highly stereotypical of elitist players who think anyone who favours W/Mo is a hopeless noob.

Stormlord Alex

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Dec 2005

Beyond the Forest of Doom, past the Cavern of Agony... on Kitten & Puppy Island

Soul of Melandru [sOm]

W/E

03 Sep 2007 at 07:37 - 174

Quote:

Originally Posted by yesitsrob

Sorry to be blunt here but mesmers simply don't do key jobs in PVE as well as other characters do.

Alas... Quoted for the ultimate truth.
Even Avarre agrees, and he's... like... a pro mesmer

Etta

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2006

Mancland, British Empire

03 Sep 2007 at 07:58 - 175

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matfei

In rebuttal, you're statement is highly stereotypical of elitist players who think anyone who favours W/Mo is a hopeless noob.

Well, when it's right 80% of the time, also there're a lot different between Warrior/Monk and Wammo.

As for the mesmer, why do some people prefer Ak 47 to M4, X-wing to Tie-fighter or Ryu to Ken? It's in their playing style, you want to do the no-nonsense direct damge, go ahead and use the standard professions. No right or wrong there, as long as you get the job done, right?

Some people don't want to do that, they rather be more creative. Nothing wrong there as well. So use what you want to use, play it how you want to and stop nagging those who like to play as or use mesmer.

upier

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Done.

[JUNK]

03 Sep 2007 at 08:26 - 176

Quote:

Originally Posted by gasmaskman

One seems to be forgetting runes and how +2-4 (even one) can really make a difference. And why would you go E/Me and using GOLE when there aren't even any 15 energy skills on the mesmers bar?

Attribute boosting runes are pretty much outdated. The is basically no other reason besides Surge, Burn, Blackout and Signet Of Weariness (yeah, like that's gonna work in PvE) to bring any mesmer attribute over 12.
The rest of the skills work insanely well with only 12 in the selected attribute OR even less! That is why the mesmer secondary works so nicely!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex

Even Avarre agrees, and he's... like... a pro mesmer

No disrespect - but I need to strongly disagree with such statements.
Don't agree or disagree with something just because a player X says it's like that. Look at the reasoning behind it to see what made that player form such an opinion.
Learn to understand the game you are playing - instead of just following the crowd.

Stormlord Alex

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Dec 2005

Beyond the Forest of Doom, past the Cavern of Agony... on Kitten & Puppy Island

Soul of Melandru [sOm]

W/E

03 Sep 2007 at 08:30 - 177

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

No disrespect - but I need to strongly disagree with such statements.
Don't agree or disagree with something just because a player X says it's like that. Look at the reasoning behind it to see what made that player form such an opinion.
Learn to understand the game you are playing - instead of just following the crowd.

Oh, but I do understand. I understand very well the limits of the mesmer in PvE... And I agree with crumpets on his points.
The fact that other people - people such as Avarre whom we all know as being totally kick-ass - also feel the same adds weight to the argument.
I just threw on a QFT 'cuz nothing else needed to be said.

But, of course, the angry crowd will devour me 'cuz I 'suk and dunt understand mezmars lolol'

Avarre

Bubblegum Patrol

Join Date: Dec 2005

Singapore Armed Forces

03 Sep 2007 at 08:45 - 178

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Look at the reasoning behind it to see what made that player form such an opinion.

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10129170

upier

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Done.

[JUNK]

03 Sep 2007 at 08:58 - 179

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10129170

Yes - I am aware of that. Hell I even wrote a few shorter pieces on the same subject over at GWO.
And yes - I actually share your opinion.
BUT it actually took me a lot of time playing the mesmer to figure it out and it took me a bit longer to actually accept it.
And that is why I can stand behind my view instead of just waiting for somebody else to tell me what to think - which actually seems to be what the majority of people on this thread are doing.
And that is why this marathon sessions keep going on and on - because so many players feel that liking or disliking something is completely enough to justify forming an opinion if something works or doesn't.

Diablo???

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2005

Seattle

SPQR

N/R

03 Sep 2007 at 12:01 - 180

They needed a hero for every class, if Gwen wasn't going to be a mesmer, someone else would.

But if we already know that, then this thread isn't really about the mesmers status in PVE, and more about someone's obsession over Gwen is it?

Qual

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2005

Denmark, Karup.

[PuG]

W/E

03 Sep 2007 at 12:33 - 181

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex

Even Avarre agrees, and he's... like... a pro mesmer

He can be a shitty mesmer for all you know...

SotiCoto

Banned

Join Date: Jan 2007

Drazach Thicket

Temple of Zhen Xianren [Sifu]

03 Sep 2007 at 12:48 - 182

I figured Gwen should have been an Elementalist after her little nuke-fest back in the original Prophecies preview event.

Oh well. I'm sure I'll eventually find a use for her... after I went and kitted out Norgu too... v_v;

Twonaiver

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2006

S??o Paulo Brasil

R/

03 Sep 2007 at 12:53 - 183

makes all sense since she healed us before she would be a monk, i too felt a little desapointment findin she is a mesmer, i feel like she have switched roles from helpin little girl to agressive charr slayer, also a mesmer, this thread seem to have gone the same point to mesmer hate thread becouse op stated noobishlly of her been a mesmer sucking, i like mesmers a lot SV FTW, but i wish she was the monk and ogden the mes, would make more sense.

dont express infunded hate, wont lead us anywhere.

Big_Iron

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2005

The Edge

Tormented Weapons [emo]

03 Sep 2007 at 14:07 - 184

I don't know jack about Mesmer's, except they're good at interrupts and degen. So, I made Gwen a Fast-casting nuker. She's worked out pretty well in that department.

Snow Bunny

Alcoholic From Yale

Join Date: Jul 2007

Strong Foreign Policy [sFp]

03 Sep 2007 at 15:44 - 185

I suppose if Gwen wasn't a mesmer....what would she be?

What do you need more of?

Unless Gwen was to do some serious traveling and rack up them frequent flyer miles, I don't think she'd be a paragon, which would be very nice nevertheless.

Coloneh

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Nov 2006

D/W

03 Sep 2007 at 16:21 - 186

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diablo™

They needed a hero for every class, if Gwen wasn't going to be a mesmer, someone else would.

But if we already know that, then this thread isn't really about the mesmers status in PVE, and more about someone's obsession over Gwen is it?

yeah, they needed a mesmer hero in eotn(i suppose), but why is it gwen? she said she wanted to be a warrior and she heals players.everyone loves gwen, and i personally thought it would be cool to have her in my party. maybe anet should fix mesmers.

Aramaki

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2006

03 Sep 2007 at 17:06 - 187

Hee I thought maybe Gwen want to be a monk healer since she frequently heals with her magical flute when in pre-searing, but then she said mesmers' outfits are nicer... Ha girls will be girls.

I've no problem with Gwen being a Mesmer since her interrupt/shut down skills looks pretty effective so far, though I'm just a causal pve player and never play a Mesmer before, also seldom use one as a henchmen but gwen gonna change that. Seems alright to me that I can get a Mesmer hero early too, compare to Nightfall.

"When I grow up, I'm going to be a hero like my daddy. I'd like to be a warrior, but the mesmers' outfits are nicer, don't you think?" You want Gwen as a warrior? I rather not >.<

ACreator

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Sep 2006

Mo/

03 Sep 2007 at 17:16 - 188

completly agree with aramaki..

still I get pissed off because other thing...

all core professions have 3 heroes except mesmer....

A-NET thats discrimination.....

Chicken Ftw

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2006

03 Sep 2007 at 17:56 - 189

Quote:

Originally Posted by ACreator

all core professions have 3 heroes except mesmer....

A-NET thats discrimination.....

Can you honestly give me a good, efficient PvE team build that makes use of three mesmers, that couldn't be outclassed by another team build? I can't think of a single reason to ever need three mesmers in PvE.

Semi-offtopic: still amazed at the number of people who think mesmers are a great choice for PvE parties, and that anyone who disagrees just doesn't know how to play mesmer at all. /sigh

Titch2011

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jan 2007

A/D

03 Sep 2007 at 19:55 - 190

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicken Ftw

I can't think of a single reason to ever need three mesmers in PvE.

Well you could have 3 (or a mix) of either an interrupt, a degen, a fast casting monk, an Me/N SS, a fast casting nuker, a fast casting airspiker, an IW person, a rezmez, a water hexer... the list goes on

God Apprentice

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2006

Mo/N

03 Sep 2007 at 20:01 - 191

Quote:

Originally Posted by MMSDome

your right mesmers are totally useless why have mesmer heros.

/fail

Mesmers are great utility, and are very helpful in pve situations.

Chicken Ftw

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2006

03 Sep 2007 at 20:07 - 192

Quote:

Originally Posted by Titch2011

Well you could have 3 (or a mix) of either an interrupt, a degen, a fast casting monk, an Me/N SS, a fast casting nuker, a fast casting airspiker, an IW person, a rezmez, a water hexer... the list goes on

Quote:

Can you honestly give me a good, efficient PvE team build that makes use of three mesmers, that couldn't be outclassed by another team build?

...But I'm praying that was sarcasm. 'Cause we all know how extremely useful those Me/E FC water hexers are. <3

street peddler

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2007

03 Sep 2007 at 20:18 - 193

usually when i have a free space in the party ill take the mesmer henchie, interrupts = less damage taken by us, also can easily take down healers..

Divinitys Creature

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2005

Somewhere between the Real World and Tyria ;P

The Gothic Embrace [Goth]

04 Sep 2007 at 00:18 - 194

She wanted to grow up to be just like Lady Althea

Diablo???

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2005

Seattle

SPQR

N/R

04 Sep 2007 at 01:10 - 195

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

yeah, they needed a mesmer hero in eotn(i suppose), but why is it gwen? she said she wanted to be a warrior and she heals players.everyone loves gwen, and i personally thought it would be cool to have her in my party. maybe anet should fix mesmers.

Honestly I too got the impression she was going to be a warrior, but according to her quotes:
"When I grow up, I'm going to be a hero like my daddy. I'd like to be a warrior, but the mesmers' outfits are nicer, don't you think?".

seems like she made a choice in career based on their outfits... go figure

Coloneh

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Nov 2006

D/W

04 Sep 2007 at 04:43 - 196

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diablo™

Honestly I too got the impression she was going to be a warrior, but according to her quotes:
"When I grow up, I'm going to be a hero like my daddy. I'd like to be a warrior, but the mesmers' outfits are nicer, don't you think?".

seems like she made a choice in career based on their outfits... go figure

that quote always sounds to me like she wants to be a warrior but is slightly disappointed that their armor dosnt look as good as mesmers like lady althea.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ACreator

completly agree with aramaki..

still I get pissed off because other thing...

all core professions have 3 heroes except mesmer....

A-NET thats discrimination.....

all the other core professions are also useful as a primary. thats even more descrimination.

anet should fix mesmers and give us another mesmer hero.

blue.rellik

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2007

Melbourne, Australia

None

W/

04 Sep 2007 at 04:46 - 197

I still think a wurm should have been the mesmer hero

Patrick Smit

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2006

NiTe

04 Sep 2007 at 07:23 - 198

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

The only advantages iv heard for mesmer primary are an extra second of blackout and fast casting, but the thing is that fast casting isnt that useful in PvE. It dosnt make your heroes able to interrups spells they wouldnt have been able to with 0 FC. the spells getting on the enemies is what counts, not that you can do it in 3/4 of the time.

Energy storage ans Soul Reaping are just more useful. take that picture above for example, is that GoLE i spy? the character would be more effective as an ele primary. more energy reserves are always useful.

No, gole from ele would not be more useful, cost of the mesmer spells is restricted at 10 e. Emanagment is better then extra energy in pool. So the ele as a mesmer is shite unless u use energy management from the energy storage line. The necro could be an alternative, true energy management in the form of soul reaping, but he would be better of using necro spells. A domination memser can stil fire of spells +2-4 levels higher, with less window of oppertunity for interupts. U consider FC useless, but it makes u less vulnerable to interupts, as also AI is busy and can't just fire off interupts if busy.

Surena

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2007

N/Me

04 Sep 2007 at 07:38 - 199

Quote:

Originally Posted by God Apprentice

/fail

Mesmers are great utility, and are very helpful in pve situations.

No, they can't do anything better than all the other classes, in fact there are even more reasons to bring a moebius-sin than any mesmer at all.

The "you plebeians fail at Guild Wars because you fail to accept, recognize and appreciate the Mesmer class"-attitude is arrogant. Some should learn thinking outside PvP, even though it would mean getting off the high horse.

Regarding PvP there is no single doubt that they are far from underestimated and one of the most powerful classes, if not the most - that however does not belong here.

madman24749

Academy Page

Join Date: Jul 2006

Ceasers X I Legion

W/Mo

04 Sep 2007 at 07:41 - 200

You've got to be completely stupid to think that ANY class sucks
Mesmers own, Gwen looks awesome as a mesmer, is an excellent addition to a team if you give her a PROPER build
I honestly cannot believe people are complaining that shes a mesmer . . .
Mesmers rule! Try versing one! You ain't got a chance

And three mesmer heroes, gods that would be insanely cool! I can just imagine all the Cry of Frustration fun I could have with that

Crazy area of effect interrupting ftw!