Petition to Remove Title Requirement for GW:EN Armors

First, to those who compare use grind in a job to grind in game....it's a GAME. A challenge is something that tests your skill, your abilities. Grind isn't a challenge to a lot of people. Any ape zone in, kill everything, zone out, rinse, repeat. If people wanted that, hell, they would find the extra 15 bucks out of their beer money and play WoW or some Korean MMO.

All I'm saying is, make more than one way to earn the points. Going through all 18 dungeons is just as much work(and much more challenging) as talking to the same Norn shrine guy so much he says, "Fvck! You again?" Anet seems like they try to satisfy as many players as possible. Well, giving more points for storyline and playing through the game seems to be an easy way to satisfy those who want to work for the points, just not work in a grind.

Better this than pissing off people who you will have to rely on for word-of-mouth when GW2 is ready.

If you go through the whole storyline of the Norn, without spending extra hours doing the grinding burn-and pillage of a whole area, you will not have 26k norn points. Even killing every monster as you zone in and out for the quest will not get you that. Where does that fit the "journey"? And being a smart ass saying it's like bitching about pre-searing actually brings up a point. The whole point of why people liked Prophecies so much WAS THE F'IN JOURNEY! You were immersed in a storyline from start to finish, and could get everything along the way. Enough money and items dropped, from the missions and from exploring around the southern Shiverpeaks and Fire Islands, that you could afford the 15k armor if you were smart about it. And you gained access to it by following the story!

Saying life is a journey is supposed to mean that you are supposed to enjoy the journey, not just be looking toward the end. You really need to look at why people are bitching about having to do so much to get to this armor. It means they don't enjoy the game enough to want to go through what it takes to get the armor. Which means that, if this has to hold a fan base for 18 months, Anet is in deep trouble.

Oh, and quoting yourself? What was the court saying? Any man who represents himself has an idiot for a client?

Thanks for not really disagreeing with my concept of what a grind is and isn't. I think I was pretty clear about my stance, meaning if what you claim is true... Then I would agree that an adjustment should be in order. It seems clear to me that there are varying experiences with the "grindy-ness" of these title tracks among players. Perhaps a poll would be in order to see how the chips fall... Not an opinion poll, mind you. A factual poll.

Option 1: I earned all the needed ranks in title X to access the Armor NPCs without being forced to re-instance the same encounters multiple times for the express purpose of earning title points. (NO GRIND)
Option 2: I earned all the needed ranks in title X to access the Armor NPCs but I chose to farm a zone that I preferred over other locations in order to get the ranks I needed (CHOSE TO GRIND)
Option 3:I earned all the needed ranks in title X to access the Armor NPCs but was unable to do so without having to replay the same areas or encounters numerous times just to earn the needed title rank. (FORCED TO GRIND)

If anyone knows how to do a poll please feel free. I've not done one before and I'm headed out the door right now.

I couldn't disagree with you more about Prophecies. Out of all the content it was the most grindy game they've done. If you want evidence that Anet agrees with my perspective then just look at the XP awards for whatever missions or quests you'd deem to be of equal difficulty comparing one stand alone game to the other. The paltry 500xp per whatever in Prophecies was mind numbing. Compared with the 3000xp per comprable whatever in Factions or Nightfall is much better gameplay wise. Loot, gold and other rewards are the same story.

As for my idocy... I don't believe that was ever put into question nor was it the topic of this thread. But thanks! I think you're special too.

There is a significant difference...

In Nightfall, you could pick up the Sunspear points you need quite easily simply by running around doing quests and picking up bounties along the way. Heck, the first time I went through Nightfall I got to Castellan while I was only halfway through Vabbi! Ergo, no grind.

In EotN, this isn't the case. One of my characters has completed the primary quests and all the (known) above-ground quests for the Ebon Vanguard, and is still only sitting at the halfway point between R3 and R4. In order to get to R5 - let alone higher to get those skills at a reasonable level without resorting to the Illusions Signet - is going to require some mindless monster killing. Even some simple repeatable quests - raid a supply caravan, assassinate a leader, and so on - could help relieve the tedium, especially if some randomness could be introduced into the repeatable (have a number of locations where the target may be, and in the case of bosses, a set of fragments from which a random composite name can be produced, and so on).

In a way, there are some benefits towards the system - economically speaking, it spreads out the demand for material to make the new armours rather than having it all hit at once as it has with previous additions to the franchise. On the flipside, however, the story reason is a bit silly - it does stretch the suspension of disbelief when you've pretty much rescued the entire organisation from destruction (between the Defense of the Eye master quest and the Ebon Vanguard primary quest), then done everything that the Ebon Vanguard officers can ask you to do, and you still get the Tom, (Richard) and Teardrinker line out of the Ebon Vanguard armorer.

In short - if you've done all the quests for a particular faction, you should be enough of a hero in their eye to have unrestricted access to the crafters. I'd probably argue for this to be done by increasing the number of quests (and possibly increasing the Ebon Vanguard rep rewards for the primary quest to Asura levels - a quick survey of Vanguard primaries only shows 750 rep for the whole thing, compared to 3000 Asura points for Finding the Bloodstone alone) rather than decreasing the requirements, however.

Signed, I agree armour shouldnt be easy to get but I don't call getting a stupid title hard. Go kill monsters for hours. This is a PRIME example of what GW vowed a few years ago they wanted to get away from that was the grind in an MMO. To give players a no-sht chance to play the game and have fun without hours of boring tasks. Now they start this. I fear GW2 is going to be a spitting image of WoW. Maybe put the crafter at the end of a hard dungeon juke FoW armour. It's not easy and no title required.

/signed

anyone remember "Guild Wars, the game the rewards skill, not time played."
You know..it was Anet's primary advertising slogan at the beginning of Guild Wars Prophecies?

Anyone remember that? Cause I think we can safely say that Anet themselves has forgotten all about i.

There is no grind to unlock armors. There is no repetitve "doing stuff for hours". Let me give you an example for the Asura title:

Doing all Asura faction quests ONCE: 11.500 Asura-Faction
Clearing all Asura areas ONCE: ~ 10.000 Asura Faction

Done, you get the armor unlocked. Is that really too much to ask? Why does everybody expect that he only has to take a rusher to Rata Sum to buy whatever he wants? Is playing the game ONCE properly asking too much?

The same is true for all other factions as well. Most people overlook the fact that the dungeon can give up to 3000 points for one of the four factions. Sure, killing the enemies WITHIN the dungeon will go to the Delver title. Killing the boss and completing the dungeon's quest will trigger a huge reward for the faction that gave you that quest. (e.g Shards of Orr = 3000 Asura Faction points). When clearing the areas of enemies you will get around 10 points per kill IF you can kill all enemies. The rewards start off slow at 1 point per kill, but soon this will be upgraded multiple times and you also gain additional rewards after 25 kills, or get some "special hunt" bunus, e.g. +10per kill for a limited time. Clearing the area around Rata Sum from the 310 enemies who live there will give you 3200 Asura Faction.

The only thing in dire need of fixing is your perspective on the game's mechanics. Fact is that you will get the armor for completing the quest chain. Anything beyond that rank 5, that is the grind for fun and profit. But there is little to nothing attached to that.

lrn2dungeon

/notsigned

Learn to elaborate in English. Dungeons, if you read how the points are given out, do not give more than 500 points, tops, for a category. They are divided among all the titles. Most quests give 200 or less. A few give none. Ergo, if you want NORN points, the NORN quests do not give you enough points. You have to do them over and over again.

If they even increased it to 500 rep points for every quest, that would give 9500 rep points, because you do get 1000 for doing the whole Northern Allies thread. Add NORMAL exploration, and the lvl 5 everyone wants is doable without having to sweep-and-clear the Falls area over and over again.

Someone in another thread said some ridiculous thing about "All the people who like the game don't post. They are playing it." If you are on the forums any, you are into the game enough that you want the best information about playing the game. You care about the game play more than the average player. The "average player", if the game is doing something to make it less fun to play, instead of trying to give their opinion to others and to Anet, will just quit playing. After all, for the price of most MMO's per month, you could cut out 2-3 espresso drinks at Starbuck's.

A 100% correct list of faction rewards for dungeons can be found here. If you need to see a list of the quests and their factions reward, then click here. Doing the Norn stuff without grinding is more than enough to unlock the armor. But you will have to play the game. Rushing and quickfarming won't cut it this time.

Whenever you start working or quit welfare you'll notice what work really is. Until then enjoy your student's life and sleep 14h a day.

Yeah, another of these intelligent postings.

I WANT the armor, got it? It's one simple set, nothing more. I wonder what harm it would do if it was easier to get and the repetitive grind taken away. Bore you sooner?

Right, that's why you don't HAVE to play/grind all the time and do something else instead. It's the best way to stretch out game experience and become less bored.

grinding titles and buying armor should not be related.

titles should be totally optional and not forced upon the player.

and buying armor is novelty, something that a player should be able to do without having to fullfill tonnes of other requirements, (eg, kill 60 thousand monster, jump over and lake and speak to the bloodfish -__-).

what you want to ask yourself is that do you want a title for EVERY LAST thing in the game? it's ridiculous, the titles are even of a tasteless matter - its just about killing hundreds of the same monsters in a minute number of areas over and over again. who by far have the worst drop rates of anything in all the campaigns - just to add.

it does not matter that you do not consider it a grind because bottom line is armor and optional titles should not be related. i have not needed to grind a title untill now.

/not signed

As others have stated:
- level 5 is achieveable
- armor would be too easy to get (Note: *directs attention to all the Elite Sunspear Ele armor that flooded GW* People would complain that while they loved the armor, seeing so many people wear it in a flood made them sick of it quickly. Now think of other armor like Vabbi that maybe takes longer to save for or the gems weren't so easy to get, therefore that armor hasn't flooded the masses and made you sick of it so readily.)

/notsigned

If you have time to farm 50k worth of gold, you have time to farm 26k worth of Norn/Dwarf/Asura/Vanguard points. If you don't want to grind to get prestige armour, go to Elona - Ancient armour is gorgeous!

/not signed

Getting R5 is easy - just do the quests and you'll get R5 soon enough. Not even needed to 'grind'.

- its not achievable by just playing through the storyline, you have to farm to get it. which might be fine if you have one or two characters...but what about those of us who have 8 or 9 or 10+ and want to experience EoTN on all of them? that's beyond grind, that's just bloody painful and discouraging.
- didja ever think people bought that elite sunspear ele armor because its just an awesome armor, not because its easy or hard to get? or that lots of people didn't buy vabbian armor cuz they think its ugly or the gems cost made it not worth it? i'm pretty sure the vast majority of players buy armor they find aesthetically pleasing - not buy the expensive stuff just to grow their e-peen. (though plenty of the FoW e-peen people exist, i'll admit) up until now, the only challenge in getting armor is gathering the materials and gold to buy them, and getting to the outpost/town where the armor is sold. why change it now? grinding my way to rank 5 isn't going to make my elite armor feel any more special - in fact, i'm going to resent it. i worked for my gold and materials, and worked my way to the outposts where the armor is sold. its not like people aren't willing to work for their armor, they just don't want to senselessly grind a title for it. i don't want the stupid title, i just want new armors available to me.

I have 10 characters. I love the norn ranger armor so definitely getting that. I've seen at least 3 or 4 more armors for other characters I may get. Some I just don't like for some characters. So far my ele is going through the story, barely at Olfstead and already into rank 3, and that's considering I still have a log full of quests. Also lots to explore so I'm sure I'll be wandering into a zone more than once for more points. I also wanted a crown and Zho's journal so I did the Bison thing over and over and more pts there. Therefore for me, it's not grind, it's playing the game. Everyone plays differently I suppose.

Of course I've thought those things, I myself love the ele ancient armor when a lot of people don't like it. It's about what I love and willing to do to get get. The thing is, they lowered the rank as is for the armors, it's at 5. To me, that's doable. If the rank was like 8 or 10, then I probably would have signed this unless the armor is so glorious that I thought it was worth it. But the fact remains that they already lowered it to rank 5, which I think is enough. I've heard some say they wish it remained higher because coming into GW:EN, people knew this was for level 20 characters and things weren't necessarily meant to be handed out. And a certain amount of 'grind' has been around. People like luxon and kurzick armor too but they still had to get that 10k faction to get into the outposts for each character, whether their goal was to complete the storyline or get armor.

The only people for whom the armor would be too easy to get are those who purchase programs to run their character for them while they are busy with real life. Grind is unentertaing bullsh*^! Further, grind only supports the elitest toilet paper who have a need to look down upon and berate others.

I am fully for anything that reduces or eliminates the need to grind.

/signed

/not signed

While your at for the people moaning why dont you have it that theres no rare skin weapons either - who wants to work for anything, right?

Grinding = working?
Hur, hur, hur, that's something new. I thought "work" requires some effort.

not signed

Theres so many other armors, go get one of those if you don't wanan work up to r5.

PS. I didn't get banned lol.

Getting to rank 5 is easy enough.

When they were rank 7 they were a problem, but that is fixed.

/Signed

Couse i don't wanna grind all my 11 chars to rank 5.
And couse most are reskins the big isseu here.
So it isn't worth doing the GW:EN titels

/Not Signed
Iff you have like 1/2 chars so be it but yet again is it worth it

/signed

find this whole signed unsigned junk weird, but o well.
I can understand that if getting asuran armor was easy, everyone would be wearing it. but o well. i'd rather a menu that could recreate armor like it is in pvp, than lugging around all that junk in my inventory.

but for the most part 26k is annoying. its annoying to get rata sum, and its hella annoying running around doing mundane quests and what not to kiss asuran ass in order to get some decent looking armor. could have just made it like vabbian armor, with maybe a quest to get the thing. how about some epic dungeon to conquer, then its like o we'll make clothes for you. could keep the people in town, and only have to complete a difficult dungeon to earn respect. maybe even a few quest leading to the dungeon from the armor crafter. o woe is me, i cant make armor because x monster stole my family and materials, help me get them from y place, and i'll be grateful. then guard his little kilroy butt and solve some mysteries and boom, armor. would help for people who dont like mindless knee bent running about, and who have little time to play.

probably could make something similar to that for other armors. but that would require effort so i doubt anet would ever do something like that.

Wow JeniM, you get to sleep 14h a day? What course do you do? Cause I'm thinking I might change to that, instead of doing my IT/multimedia dual degree... You've gotta love generalisations like this. Being a student can be one of the most stressful and busy times of your life. You know why? You have to earn enough money to live while only being able to work part time, and still have enough time to get your studies done so that you don't fail your course and have to repeat it as well as have a grand washed down the drain. You don't generally get nearly enough time to relax, especially around mid and end semester exams, when you may have to cram for 4 or 5 three hour exams and still earn enough money to not die of malnutrition. Hmm, certainly sounds like an easy ride to me. Let's all play GW constantly, because uni is a breeze.

But anyway, after my vent about rediculous generalisations and stereotypes, back on topic. I certainly don't agree with removing the requirement for these armours. I'm at 25k asura reputation at the moment, and all I had to do was explore/clear each area once, and do the quests and missions. Really not that much work involved. And also, it deters those people who really are against the "grind" from putting in the very small effort of getting the required amount of points, so it keeps the armours relatively special.

Now, that's my input. That was a good half hour break. I have to get back to typing my 2000 word essay on Software Quality now (it is the most boring subject I have ever taken).

It's funny that we get all these new "remove the grind" requests for eotn now. WHERE WERE THESE PEOPLE when factions and nightfall came out? It seems they just started to come out of the woodwork when the titles affected their precious armor. "Skill over time spent" used to mean: "eveyone has the same skills, if you play more often you get cooler looking armor" Apparently that isn't what this poster wants. If you are going to complain about anything, complain about titles affecting skills (something that actually matters in this game) rather then purely superficial stuff like armor.

/notsigned for changing titles for armor requirements
/signed if the thread makes a 180 and we start talking about skills

As a side note, finishing the game and a few of the dungeons is pretty much enough to get you to r5 of any race's title, and dwarf is very easy to get imho, I reached r7 just doing every dungeon once. Basically instead of REQUIRING you to reach the end of the game to get it, you can either play the whole game or farm for 3 or 4 hours (it really is that short if you are in the right places). That's right, it was a nice way to give you an option to get it faster instead of playing the whole game with however many characters you want, wasn't that nice of them?

The Meth and others "it's easy", please enlighten me... Who ever said that grinding is not easy, i.e. it's hard? Because as I see it, the problem is that it's boring, unchallenging and dumbed down to extreme

/signed

Grinding for points = farming for points. I hate farming and I hate grinding. I was just saying last night, it's very discouraging when you see how many points until the next level. I just want to say, why bother, what's the point, another useless title?

Yes, exactly my point!

I don't see why they couldn't just link it to a primary quest instead...

I remember when I played through Nightfall I never had to grind for sunspear since I came over from Prophecies/Factions. The only thing was the R2 light bringer for gaze.

In Nightfall there where also 'Get to rank X' quests and rewards, such as lightbringer skills.

It's not very different.

Yeah and the part "get Sunspear General rank or you won't move any further" is still one of the most idiotic decisions.

Ok, maybe 'easy' wasn't the way I meant, I think the best word to say would be 'naturally', because at least for me finishing every dungeon was one of the most important things to me in EotN, and when you do that you get tons of dwarf points. Also, you get I think 3k on average for each race the first time you finish their dungeon, 3k x 4 dungeons = 12k, nearly half way to r5, after adding in the primary and the secondary quests along with the blessing points you get while doing them you should get r5, or very close to it. The fact is dungeons are half of EotN, so if you skip them thats like asking for end game armor while you were still in crystal desert/kaineng city/kourna in the other campaigns. The difference is you can get them earlier by farming, where as in the other campaigns you were forced to play the campaign

Remove it? yea that will happen...

You do realise the title crafter grind is Anets main ploy to keep you playing the game right?
I

Remove it? Let it stay if people are happy with grind. But make armour and weapons obtainable without grinding, maybe it would be even harded but this way both sides would be happy.

Anyway, I hope AN does realise that grinding isn't exactly good for GW2's financial success- some people bought GW because of lack of grind, pvp and pve balance... Now that these things are gone (more or less) why should people care about GW2?

I don't see why they couldn't just link it to a primary quest instead...

I remember when I played through Nightfall I never had to grind for sunspear since I came over from Prophecies/Factions. The only thing was the R2 light bringer for gaze.

These title tracks remind me quite a bit of the Luxon/Kurzik title tracks. However, those are account wide.

So, how about if they make the Norn/Ebon Vangurad/Asurian titles account wide. They might even raise the cap if they did that so that;

A: People who don't like to grind only have to do it once.

B: People who say it's part of the cost of getting vanity armor will still be able to say it has to be done. Just that some people won't have to do it 8+ times to get EotN armor on all their characters.

I would support it becoming account wide, but if it ever becomes on the scale that the Luxon/Kurzick titles are I will cry. Those titles are such a massive failure. Maxing it account wide at around 3-4x the current would work well. (Maybe a little more or less depending on how hard mode increases the rep gain)

Oh, no certainly not on the AB scale where you need 100,000 points for the first rank. Keep it as it is now, just make it so it's account wide.

I would like to have the armor in GWEN account based, cause i mine alrdy pretty poor in game and to be able to buy the armor i have 2 work my ass off for, i still have to go out on all my chartors and work it even more.

/not signed

too easy to get armor from EotN