Close topic this is a stupid idea.
Just beat gwen and turn a book in.
Problem solved
serously people its not hard.
Petition to Remove Title Requirement for GW:EN Armors
Sir Pandra Pierva
Operative 14
Quote:
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Originally Posted by freekedoutfish
Why should the Norn, Asura, Drawf or Vanguard make you armor if you havent proven your worth and trust?
.... Think about it! |
My question still stands though, why was this thread resurected from the depths of the forum?
Cale Roughstar
Good lord, do we need to beat this horse again?
/not signed. It is not very hard to get r5. If you are deadset against grinding for points to get armor, dont. If you are desparate for norn armor, then get norn to lvl5. Its not that hard...
/not signed. It is not very hard to get r5. If you are deadset against grinding for points to get armor, dont. If you are desparate for norn armor, then get norn to lvl5. Its not that hard...
Master Sword Keeper
I dont find it hard to get to R5 anymore. Finish EoTN and then go around doing 8 primary missions and go trade in your book. too easy.
_June
It's not that difficult to get the reputation.
Play your character through EOTN and then you have a completed NM book, turn in the book and there you go, rank five and enough to craft the armor.
If your not interested in Gwen (Playing through it) then why bother having bought it in the first place? :P
Play your character through EOTN and then you have a completed NM book, turn in the book and there you go, rank five and enough to craft the armor.
If your not interested in Gwen (Playing through it) then why bother having bought it in the first place? :P
Ensign
Finishing the storyline + turning in your red book should put you within 1000 rep of a faction of your choosing.
Cebe
NOTE TO USERS
Could all users please take note of the Sardelac Sanitarium sticky which asks users to not simply post "/signed". Any attempt to by-pass the 12 character limit will lead to post deletion.
Repeat offenders will be noted.
Could all users please take note of the Sardelac Sanitarium sticky which asks users to not simply post "/signed". Any attempt to by-pass the 12 character limit will lead to post deletion.
Repeat offenders will be noted.
Alex the Great
/notsigned
just beating eotn should get you r3 in everything
just beating eotn should get you r3 in everything
Shai Lee
/not signed
If I remember correctly, they already lowered the requirement when the game came out?
I don't think it's difficult if you play through, at least for me it wasn't.
If I remember correctly, they already lowered the requirement when the game came out?
I don't think it's difficult if you play through, at least for me it wasn't.
freekedoutfish
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Operative 14
Umm... becuase we're paying them good money to do so? When you go to a store in Taiwan, do you need to earn respect and prove yourself to the Taiwanese people to buy something that costs a few thousand dollars? And on that note, haven't we already proven ourselves to the Dwarves in Prophicies? Their crafters seemed quite willing to help us out in Marhans and Droks.
My question still stands though, why was this thread resurected from the depths of the forum? |
You dont see the major failure in that arguement!
I have to laugh when people try to compare this game to real world situations, and they just completely ignore that fact its a computer game and its fiction.
It isnt about how much the armor costs and whether we're paying the Norn, Asura, Drawfs or vanguard crafter enough to go out and buy a new Prada bag for their girlfriend.
The Norn council isnt going to come along and remove the armor crafters trading license if he doesnt make a certain amount of money in the week, and cant pay his rent on the store.
The Asuran weapon crafter isnt going to get the repo man coming around if he doesnt make enough money to pay off the debt hes in for gambling.
Its a friggin game... and in this particular game we have to show respect to the Norn, Asura, Drawfs and Vanguard before they craft us armor and weapons. We do that by killing deadly creatures in their territories and doing quests for them and reaching rank 5 in their respected title.
We have to show them respect, because we're in their territory and we're new there. The Norn and Asura have had very little contact with humans and have no reason to trust us or think anything nice about us. The Vanguard left Ascalon years ago and are untrusting of strangers. The Drawfs already make us elite armor in prophercies, so its a bit rude to just walk up and say "hey make me more" unless you give them a reason.
And again.. its part of the storyline. Just read the quests you get and they state that you need to earn the respect of these races or cultures as part of it.
Alicendre
When my Ascalonian Necro first got to Kryta, which was in war with Ascalon not so many years ago, she only had to pay for the new armor.
Now, because some people don't know her (while other of the same ethnicy share adventures with her), she has to kill loads of monsters to buy an armor to protect herself from those monsters ?
Now, because some people don't know her (while other of the same ethnicy share adventures with her), she has to kill loads of monsters to buy an armor to protect herself from those monsters ?
freekedoutfish
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Alicendre
When my Ascalonian Necro first got to Kryta, which was in war with Ascalon not so many years ago, she only had to pay for the new armor.
Now, because some people don't know her (while other of the same ethnicy share adventures with her), she has to kill loads of monsters to buy an armor to protect herself from those monsters ? |
These new races and cultures you meet in GWEN don't know you or havent been to Ascalon or cantha or elona in a while if ever and they are miss-trusting of the people from there.
If your an ascalonian, then any armor crafter in prophercies knows you are on the flame seekers journey and knows you are ascalonian (is that real term?), so they dont mind just charging you.
People in GWEN dont know who you are, or why your there or what your intentions are. So why is it hard to accept you have to earn their respect?
Make the title account based, and then you only need to do it with one character.
Isileth
Quote:
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Originally Posted by freekedoutfish
These new races and cultures you meet in GWEN don't know you or havent been to Ascalon or cantha or elona in a while if ever and they are miss-trusting of the people from there.
People in GWEN dont know who you are, or why your there or what your intentions are. So why is it hard to accept you have to earn their respect? |
That I think would take more trust than selling you some armor.
And lets face it, if you send someone on a quest to save everyone I imagine you would do your best to make sure they have the best equipment they could possibly have....
bpphantom
"So Gwen, I know you Ebon Vanguard types have been up here for a few years now, fighting Charr occasionally. Meanwhile, I was saving the survivors, leading them over the mountains, saving our suicidal prince. You know, basic dawn-of-a-new-age kind of stuff. I'm just wondering if you can ask that guy to make me a hat?"
"No. Do stuff for us!"
"Yeeeeeaaaaah. I'll get right on that."
/parody
Anyway, R5 is pretty easy to get. I'm not even done GWEN yet (on NM) and I've got R4 in everything except the EV (they just suck so much). Finish plus a book should get you R5 easily. R5 is an acceptable level considering none of them look that great and are just HoM bait.
"No. Do stuff for us!"
"Yeeeeeaaaaah. I'll get right on that."
/parody
Anyway, R5 is pretty easy to get. I'm not even done GWEN yet (on NM) and I've got R4 in everything except the EV (they just suck so much). Finish plus a book should get you R5 easily. R5 is an acceptable level considering none of them look that great and are just HoM bait.
lyra_song
.-.
GWEN armors that require titles are prestige armors...
The nature of ALL prestige armors IS GRIND.
Removing grind from prestige armors is a stupid idea.
GWEN armors that require titles are prestige armors...
The nature of ALL prestige armors IS GRIND.
Removing grind from prestige armors is a stupid idea.
Kanyatta
Quote:
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Originally Posted by _June
If your not interested in Gwen (Playing through it) then why bother having bought it in the first place? |
Oh, and /signed to OP, by the way.
When I go to Best Buy to pick up a new TV, do I have to prove my TV-watching skills are up to snuff for them?
lyra_song
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Originally Posted by Kanyatta
When I go to Best Buy to pick up a new TV, do I have to prove my TV-watching skills are up to snuff for them?
|
Why don't you come up with a game related analogy?
Lets do another game.
Guitar Hero 3
Guitar Hero 3 has a store. You can buy costumes, guitars, new songs, etc from the store.
But not everything is available all at once.
In order to buy certain things like Slash or Tom Morello as playable chars, or new guitars, you actually have to...you know....play the game....and get to certain achievement plateaus.
The more you play, the more stuff becomes available...
This is a classic game design which is built on rewarding gameplay.
freekedoutfish
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Isileth
Whats odd is that while they wont give you armor they will happily send you on a quest to save them all.
That I think would take more trust than selling you some armor. And lets face it, if you send someone on a quest to save everyone I imagine you would do your best to make sure they have the best equipment they could possibly have.... |
And you already have max armor and max weapons! Is having a Norn skin going to make you better at doing that quest?
NamelessBeauty
Though I hate this kind of req but I do agree that it's not needed to be changed.
/notsign
/notsign
Isileth
Quote:
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Originally Posted by freekedoutfish
Because they give you the quest TO THEN earn the reputation and prove you deserve the armor. If you fail to save them, then you fail to get the respect and you dont deserve the rep points.
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At the end of the day they are sending you on a quest to go and save them all from destruction, why would they not offer as much support as possible?
Its not a case of, well if he fails we wont have to sell him our precious armor.
Its a case of, well if he fails we're all buggered.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by freekedoutfish
And you already have max armor and max weapons! Is having a Norn skin going to make you better at doing that quest?
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Kanyatta
Quote:
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Originally Posted by lyra_song
What does buying a tv have any relation to a video game?
Why don't you come up with a game related analogy? Lets do another game. Guitar Hero 3 Guitar Hero 3 has a store. You can buy costumes, guitars, new songs, etc from the store. But not everything is available all at once. In order to buy certain things like Slash or Tom Morello as playable chars, or new guitars, you actually have to...you know....play the game....and get to certain achievement plateaus. The more you play, the more stuff becomes available... This is a classic game design which is built on rewarding gameplay. |
Oh, and by the way, it takes about 20 minutes of playing to get to Tom Morello and beat him, which isn't much of an accomplishment. Whereas, it could take about 4 hours (at least) to get r5 Asuran or something. The only thing on Guitar Hero that takes that long is getting 5 stars on every song on Expert.
freekedoutfish
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Kanyatta
OK, let's use your analogy. Only the really expensive (for lack of a better word) stuff like, The Log guitar, and such, do you have to actually play through the game to get. The rest goes by, as long as you have the money, you can buy it.
Oh, and by the way, it takes about 20 minutes of playing to get to Tom Morello and beat him, which isn't much of an accomplishment. Whereas, it could take about 4 hours (at least) to get r5 Asuran or something. The only thing on Guitar Hero that takes that long is getting 5 stars on every song on Expert. |
All RPG inherantly have items of some kind in them, which take a lot of time to unlock. Its nothing new or something Anet decided to add just to annoy us. Its just an aspect of an RPG and a computer game.
I actually like the GH comparison, because it hits the nail on head. The only real difference is you can enter a cheat into GH to get that things without trying.
Which I did
At the end of the day right.... you have countless alternative normal and elite armors and other weapons which only require gold and materials. And you all want to complain because five others require a bit more effort?
I find that extremely ungratefull myself. 99% of things in this game are EXTREMELY easy to attain, including most armor and most weapons. Anet gives most things away on a silver platter and just because a tiny few require a rank to unlock is nothing!
Its not enough to cause a huge storm over!
There needs to be some armor and weapons ingame, which require a bit more effort! It doesnt hurt anyone, and it adds a bit more prestige to those sets and sets them apart from other elite sets.
I notice no one complains that destroyer gaunlets require 25 destroyer cores, or that the glowing gloves require a lot of ectos. That puts them out of reach of a lot of casual players who can't afford them and don't have the time to save up or farm.
Yet they dont complain!
Its never the poor people who complain in my experience, and always the rich who feel their being ripped off because they cant easily spend all their endless wealth because someone/something is blocking it... like effort.
All while the poor sit back and accept they will never afford obsideon armor or prestige armor.
pumpkin pie
Lets relocated the Eternal Forgemaster to Kamadan
lyra_song
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Kanyatta
OK, let's use your analogy. Only the really expensive (for lack of a better word) stuff like, The Log guitar, and such, do you have to actually play through the game to get. The rest goes by, as long as you have the money, you can buy it.
Oh, and by the way, it takes about 20 minutes of playing to get to Tom Morello and beat him, which isn't much of an accomplishment. Whereas, it could take about 4 hours (at least) to get r5 Asuran or something. The only thing on Guitar Hero that takes that long is getting 5 stars on every song on Expert. |
Hence the inherent nature of a prestige item. GRIND
Get it?
Prestige = Grind
It doesn't matter HOW LONG it takes. There will always be a barrier there.
For Guitar Hero, the time it takes to grind fits the gameplay style.
even if you took away the title grind, theres stil the price and material grind.
It is, in its inherent design, a GRIND.
None of the things in Guitar Hero can make you a better player. Its all cosmetic. This is why I chose this as a comparison.
All the money you spent is in the end, just proof that you beat the game, or that you have a lot of game cash.
freekedoutfish
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Originally Posted by Isileth
Yeah but if you fail pretty much everyone is doomed anyways.
At the end of the day they are sending you on a quest to go and save them all from destruction, why would they not offer as much support as possible? Its not a case of, well if he fails we wont have to sell him our precious armor. Its a case of, well if he fails we're all buggered. |
Its simply a mechanism to allow the player to prove their respect for that race. Whether the quest makes sense or not, means nothing.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Isileth
Not everyone has max armor and weapons at that point.
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You also have the weapons bonus pack to get max weapons on demand and the GWEN pre-order weapons if you got them too. All done from /bonus.
A player is in NO position to enter GWEN and then complain they cant get max gear. Not when they can simply go back to their original campaign and pick up max weapons and armor very cheaply and easily.
If they choose to enter GWEN with non-max armor and rely on the Norn, Asura, Drawf or Vanguard to get it and then complain about rank 5s... their being a bit daft.
There are countless alternative places to get cheap max gear from GWs!
If you know your havent got max gear and you havent got rank 5, and you want max gear and dont feel you can do GWEN without it.... who in their right mind doesnt think...
"ohh hang on.. why dont I go get some cheap 1.5k stuff before I go in there".
... I actually have my lvl 18 warrior in GWEN right now, with lvl50 armor and he hasnt died once and hes about 90% way to survivor. All with the aid of lvl20 heroes and henches.
And im a useless warrior! I fully admit that.
GWEN isnt hard enough that it demand max armor.
lyra_song
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Originally Posted by freekedoutfish
GWEN isnt hard enough that it demand max armor.
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http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Jolvor_Stoneforge
Isileth
Quote:
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Originally Posted by freekedoutfish
Your making wild assumptions now and over complicating this arguement. Its just a game and you need to making statements like "oh but if they fail" or "why would they send someone they dont know".
Its simply a mechanism to allow the player to prove their respect for that race. Whether the quest makes sense or not, means nothing. |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by lyra_song
Yes but the expensive stuff cannot be bought WITHOUT PLAYING THE GAME AND EARNING MONEY.
Hence the inherent nature of a prestige item. GRIND Get it? Prestige = Grind It doesn't matter HOW LONG it takes. There will always be a barrier there. For Guitar Hero, the time it takes to grind fits the gameplay style. even if you took away the title grind, theres stil the price and material grind. It is, in its inherent design, a GRIND. None of the things in Guitar Hero can make you a better player. Its all cosmetic. This is why I chose this as a comparison. All the money you spent is in the end, just proof that you beat the game, or that you have a lot of game cash. |
Playing the game is not grind. Having to repeat the same bit of the game over and over is grind.
How long it takes or if it gives an advantage or not is irrelevant.
Its that it takes grind to access. I have no problem at all with something being access through skill, or a skill based alternative perhaps. But locking stuff and requiring grind to access it doesnt make for fun gameplay (If you need what is unlocked doesnt matter, since you dont need anything, to complete a mission or even play the game isnt required. But everything is part of the game.)
Nodensis
/not signed
by playing the game and handing in your hero's handbook, you can have the armor you like (no grinding). if you want more armors, thats luxury and can be linked to some grinding.
by playing the game and handing in your hero's handbook, you can have the armor you like (no grinding). if you want more armors, thats luxury and can be linked to some grinding.
lyra_song
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Isileth
Playing the game is not grind. Having to repeat the same bit of the game over and over is grind.
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But wait....isn't that the point? Grinding can be fun you know...
Quote:
| But locking stuff and requiring grind to access it doesnt make for fun gameplay (If you need what is unlocked doesnt matter, since you dont need anything, to complete a mission or even play the game isnt required. But everything is part of the game.) |
It is a barrier thats designed to be beaten by gameplay.
It's not some magical impossible thing designed to stop players.
Just play the GOREDING game and you'll get past it.
Besides, grinding can be fun. AB is a grind, but I LOVE IT. Farming is a grind, but I find it relaxing when I'm in the right mood.
The problem isn't that theres a grind. The problem is the grind doesn't appeal to YOU.
Everything is accessible to those who earned it. Some parts of the games are designed to reward grindy gameplay.
The whole "accessible to casual players" doesn't apply when the content is designed to be grinded. Those two things cannot be reconciled.
For example: Hero Title track, FoW Armor
Not everything can appeal to everyone. This is just a fact. Guild Wars appeals to many types of players so theres many types of content. Choose the content that appeals to you and stop trying to change stuff not designed for you.
Isileth
Quote:
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Originally Posted by lyra_song
The problem isn't that theres a grind. The problem is the grind doesn't appeal to YOU.
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You are exactly right.
Thats why I purchased a game that said on the box
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Guild Wars Prophecies Box
You'll prove your worth with every battle as skill, not hours played, decides your fate.
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lyra_song
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Isileth
Thats why I purchased a game that said on the box
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If you need armor in GWEN so badly i mentioned it already.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Jolvor_Stoneforge
Isileth
Quote:
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Originally Posted by lyra_song
Your armor's skin is IRRELEVANT IN BATTLE.
If you need armor in GWEN so badly i mentioned it already. http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Jolvor_Stoneforge |
Of course not, thats part of the game still.
lyra_song
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Isileth
Does it only matter when it gives you an advantage?
Of course not, thats part of the game still. |
Armor performs the same, regardless of the skin. With the addition of insignias, this is even MORE obvious.
In fact, i'd even go as far to say that the quote really only applies to PvP (thanks to PvE skills imbalancing things).
"Its part of the game, so i should have access to it"
Yes its part of the game. Just as PvP is part of the game and PvE is part of the game.
Some people like PvP.
Some people like PvE.
Some people HATE PvP.
Some people HATE PvE.
Guess what, its all part of the same game.
And guess what else?
Everyone has equal access to it if they did what was needed to get there.
And guess what else?
Not everyone is going to be able to access all it because the means to get to it do not appeal to them.
Isileth
The difference there is GW was advertised as a game with PvP and PvE. People knew that when they purchased it. It wasnt however advertised as a game you had to grind to access content, infact quite the opposite, it was advertised as a game where that wouldnt happen.
***edit***
It only applies to PvP?
I shall give you the full quote
Quite cleary it applies to both PvP and PvE.
As for it just being about battles, yes that specific quote is. But in many interviews and when they have been quoted in gaming mags/sites they discuss how the whole of the game wouldnt require grind. That nothing would be locked off based on grind but instead the whole game would be skill based.
***edit***
Quote:
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Originally Posted by lyra_song
Your quote from the box directly applies to BATTLE.
Armor performs the same, regardless of the skin. With the addition of insignias, this is even MORE obvious. In fact, i'd even go as far to say that the quote really only applies to PvP (thanks to PvE skills imbalancing things). |
I shall give you the full quote
Quote:
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Your skill will be your legend You'll prove your worth with every battle as skill, not hours played, decides your fate. Whether battling horrific monsters or competing at the highest levels of tournament play, it will always be your skill that earns you victory or defeat. |
As for it just being about battles, yes that specific quote is. But in many interviews and when they have been quoted in gaming mags/sites they discuss how the whole of the game wouldnt require grind. That nothing would be locked off based on grind but instead the whole game would be skill based.
lyra_song
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Isileth
The difference there is GW was advertised as a game with PvP and PvE. People knew that when they purchased it. It wasnt however advertised as a game you had to grind to access content, infact quite the opposite, it was advertised as a game where that wouldnt happen.
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Theres people who like grind who moved into Guild Wars.
And Anet added content to appeal to them.
Mmkay?
Think about it though.....FOW/Obsidian armor has been in the game since early on.
Even the Grotto/Citadel armors is a grind.
UAX'ing is a grind.
You can't tell me grind didn't exist before GWEN? Or are you just that naive.
Isileth
Quote:
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Originally Posted by lyra_song
Think about it though.....FOW/Obsidian armor has been in the game since early on.
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Actual access to it is skill based due to reaching the crafter.
Affording it does not have to be grind based unless you choose to farm.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by lyra_song
You can't tell me grind didn't exist before GWEN? Or are you just that naive.
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It just happens this specific thread is about the GWEN armor, not that its the only grind based content in the game.
Gregslot
No armor in the game really requires skills.
I see loads of retarded people that farmed like... retarded... with their fow armor dyed black that seriously have no skill at all.
So if the most wanted/expensive armor doesnt really require skill to get it, why should they change the system for less important armors?
Yes, it is a "fail" (like you like to say it) but there isnt really much we can do now.. after almost 3 years.
And try to play some dungeons, some quests to see what are they about, and you will get your rank5, thats how i got mine (and i dont even want these titles)
I see loads of retarded people that farmed like... retarded... with their fow armor dyed black that seriously have no skill at all.
So if the most wanted/expensive armor doesnt really require skill to get it, why should they change the system for less important armors?
Yes, it is a "fail" (like you like to say it) but there isnt really much we can do now.. after almost 3 years.
And try to play some dungeons, some quests to see what are they about, and you will get your rank5, thats how i got mine (and i dont even want these titles)
lyra_song
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Isileth
That is only a grind if you chose to make it so.
Actual access to it is skill based due to reaching the crafter. Affording it does not have to be grind based unless you choose to farm. |
Reaching the crafter involves killing lots of monsters.
Reaching the rank to crafte GWEN armor involves killing lots of monsters.
Don't you get it?
The LOCATION of the crafters for the prestige armors in GWEN are relatively easy to get to.
But they do not give you access until you reach a certain title rank.
This is no different than taking the crafter and putting him in some far off distance area where you have to slog through 300000 enemies to reach them.
Anet simply cheated and artificially made them near...yet far without actually putting them far away.
Exact same thing with the FoW Armorer.
How can you not see that? The FoW armor requires more time through rare materials, but the GWEN armor requires more time in rank, either way, ITS TIME SPENT.
The grind is there.
Isileth
Quote:
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Originally Posted by lyra_song
*sigh*
Reaching the crafter involves killing lots of monsters. Reaching the rank to crafte GWEN armor involves killing lots of monsters. Don't you get it? The LOCATION of the crafters for the prestige armors in GWEN are relatively easy to get to. But they do not give you access until you reach a certain title rank. This is no different than taking the crafter and putting him in some far off distance area where you have to slog through 300000 enemies to reach them. Anet simply cheated and artificially made them near...yet far without actually putting them far away. Exact same thing with the FoW Armorer. How can you not see that? |
Getting to the crafter requires you to only complete each area required once.
At no point are you required to go back and repeat areas just to access it.
Getting rep points requires you to repeat areas.
Now for example if you didnt get access to them till you beat the game that would be fine. Because thats a skill based achievement.
But currently you are required to repeat areas or grind to access it.
lyra_song
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Isileth
Thats not at all the same.
Getting to the crafter requires you to only complete each area required once. At no point are you required to go back and repeat areas just to access it. Getting rep points requires you to repeat areas. Now for example if you didnt get access to them till you beat the game that would be fine. Because thats a skill based achievement. But currently you are required to repeat areas or grind to access it. |
Oh wait...I have to repeat it again dont i?
How many times do you have to go into UW and FoW to have enough ectos and shards, or how many hours of farming, or trading or chest running do you need to do?
Face it. The grind is there.
Its a different type of grind, and may appeal to a different user, but its STILL a grind.
However Anet designed the barrier to access something, theres a barrier there. You need to look through the transparency and see the design of things instead of looking so blindly at the surface.