GWEN...new title GRIND!

Funny, I don't remember ANYONE asking for GW to be like World of GrindCraft.

All of this new grind blows. But honestly, I don't think Anet cares. Or, at the very least, they don't have the originality left in them to think up anything to put in its place.

Prophecies - No grind, almost unheard of for MMOs of the time

Factions - Some grind, having to gain faction to progress story. Made some level 20's more valuable than other at the exact same level giving them better salvage ability.

Nightfall - 8 damage reduction and an extra 40% damage to all endgame enemies for those willing to grind for it. This marked the beginning of people requiring you to have attained certain ranks to let you into PuGs for PvE.

GW:EN - The clusterf*** where I can finish the game, saving all the piss ant dwarves from certain destruction, yet their armorers are still arrogant little bitches who won't give me the time of day until I go kill the same mobs 10,000 times over, and the addition of massively overpowered skills to people who never leave their computer.

It went on a steady slide downhill, and I don't trust Anet to fix it. They've started catering to trolls who never see the light of day, and I think its time for me to leave.

i dont need any titles to fully enjoy the game i got the skillz and trolls dont :P
the only titles i enjoy are treasure hunter , grandmaster cartographer , vanquising title and the protector title

I agree with this. We honestly should get automatic rank 5 with all reputations especially the dwarves for killing the Great Destroyer.

Tonight it started as I knew it would. Was in DOA and started to already hear:

You don't have a dijin?

You don't have drunken master?

This, if anything proves my point. So, I guess, I will have to get all the C, spacebar skills so I can still PUG. I will not like it. I have no choice.

I will keep everyone informed of just how boring it is as I do it as I have dual monitors so everyone can just hear how HAPPY I am with GWEN during the process. I know I can do this, as it TAKES NO SKILL to hit C, spacebar over and over.

Those new skills aren't that good that it is worth grinding to get them up.
I rather go DoA with someone that got their own builds and knows how to play, then someone with a certain skill setup and only the knowledge how to C+space.

I personally really, really hate elite zones and DOA was the pinacle of grind for me. I tried it a few times and I had nooo fun at all, because you have to do everything exactly how your told and there is no room for experimenting and just having fun or its over.

I concider DOA a grind for that exact reason. Its beyond difficult and just a grind to play it because its tedious and repetative and frustrating.

Plus there are armor sets for heroes and weapons that can only be crafted by using rare drops from inside DOA. To me that is unfair and unbalanced! It makes DOA weapons and hero armor (whether it be crap or not) completely out of reach for me, and if I wanted it I would have to endure doing a task that I really dispise and dont enjoy.

To me that is forced grind to get hero armor and/or DOA weapons.

This is exactly how you are discribing the need to increase titles to be able to either unlock armor, weapons or make pve only skills more effective.

Its the exact same principle.

Except you like DOA and you defend it. You obviously like elite zones that tougher then tough challenge which I consider to be grinding and boring. I can say the same for FOW armor because I cant stand the FOW and UW and I would have to spend hours farming ectos and shards for FOW armor, in an area I hate. I consider that grind too.

This is why I defend how the armor and pve only skills work in GWEN, because grind has always existed in GWs from one perspective or another.

Ive always considered FOW armor to be a grind because it requires hours of farming rare materials from that one area. I consider DOA a grind because it requires hours of play to farm rare materials for certain hero armor and DOA weapons.

That means FOW armor, DOA hero armor and weapons are out of reach for me and I could make a post complaining about it and saying its grind.

But I would get people like you, who like elite zones flaming me and telling me to stop being an idiot and that "you dont have to own that armor" or "you dont have to use those weapons."

Which is why I say to you "you dont have to own the GWEN armor" and "you dont have to use GWEN weapons" and "you dont have to use GWEN pve only skills".

Its the same principle and its nothing new that GWEN added. This idea of having weapons and armor and other objects that can only be used by doing grind has always existed in GWs from the very start in the form of FOW armor and FOW weapons.

You cant start complaining because the grind doesnt suit you anymore. Just because a grind has been added that you dislike and means you cant get armor, weapons and use skills to their full potential doesnt mean you can complain, when you defend areas like DOA which I consider grind.

Its all a matter of perspective.

But i may hate DOA and consider it a grind, but I accept others dont. The same reason you should accept that some people like maxing titles and like how the system works, and just accept it.

It only doesnt work, and it only messed the game up because YOU dont like it. I personally like what Anet added.

So you deny that by just playing through all the quests and dungeons you can make enough to reach or be close to rank 5? How is the grind?

You dont have to go into instances and kill creatures over and over and over again to gain points because you get enough points from just doing the storyline. Can you understand that?

As for increaseing the ranks further for pve only skills... that is your choice, you dont have to do it.

There is no grind in GWEN that your forced into doing. You cant compare it to factions and NF where they forced you to increase ranks for luxon/kuzack and sunspear.

Anet hasnt forced you to doanything in GWEN.

Plus you earn points for ranks from quests (for the 1000th time), and you reach rank 4-5 by just doing them. and the pve skills are just as effective at low ranks.

You people really arent even trying to make points are you? have any of you even done the quests and dungeons before you post in here and complain about it?

If you have and you still havent got near to rank 5 then im worried as to whether your getting bounties and doing all the quests properly.

Freeked, you're quite the novel writer, but you are having problems back in Chapter 1 from your post.

That is exactly what we are saying - hero armor and DOA weapons are not better than regular stuff you can get playing Nightfall. I am bolding this because you should stop discussing grind for meaningless vanity items, and start discussing grind for game-changing skills.

You are not having a meaningful discussion with us until you actually talk about grind rewarding powerful, game-altering skills. What you are saying is what we are saying - grind is bad. What you are not getting is that your grind is for vanity items. We dont care about vanity items, you can get them if you want to, but as you say they are meaningless.

Again, the PvE skills are not meaningless. They become increasingly powerful as you grind. That's bad. It encourages grind.

Secondly, if a "deity-like" being were to come down into Great Britain(?) right now, and terrorize your country for a year with impunity, and in rides a hero who was able to defeat him, would you ask him to go out and kill some of the beasts in the countryside before you'll sell T-shirts to him? Now that's rubbish.

Grind is bad. You can sugar coat it all say, and say "suck it up". In fact, that is exactly what you are doing. If that is your best argument, you can keep repeating it all day, which is all you have done so far, and I can keep telling you that grind for vanity items sucks but does not alter gameplay, and grind for game-changing skills sucks and rewards grind which breaks the original premise of the game.

Notice both sentences say "grind sucks".

Thanks!
TabascoSauce

Im trying to focus on the skill + ranks thing, but i keep getting side tracked to armor too.

But we have a difference of opinion on just how important the pve only skills are.

Yourself and others seem to feel they are the be-all and end-all of the pve world and that because they can be powerfull at higher ranks, that we should all be grinding like mad-men to get higher ranks to make them powerfull and then use them.

My view is...as ive said.. they are optional.

Yes they would be oober great to have and use if you had max rank, but you dont need them. They truly are just like a collectable item, which you collect and use to add a bit more flavour to the game and spice things up.

What people also are missing is that by the time you have (for instance) all the GWEN pve skills, you have to presume that person have finished atleast one campaign and GWEN.

So how and when will they come in usefull?

Maybe if you re-do mission in a campaign or re-play a quest or dungeon in GWEN. But their not essential. They could be concidered essential if they were needed to complete a campaign or GWEN the first time around (like LB gaze), but 99% of them arent.

These pve skills are mostly intended (from my opinion) as skills you use after you have completed the game, to add more veriaty and spice and to experiment.

Also from what ive seen of the GWEN pve only skills, they are very similar (if not more powerfull) then alot of existing skill and spells. What that fundimentlly means (for example) is you can be a elemental/assassin but also bring a pve only skill that heals your party.

So they are basically giving us a monk skill to heal, even though neither our primary or secondary is a monk. But that then shows you could just go secondary monk and heal if that is your intention.

The pve only version may be more powerfull, but if you are (again for example) a elemental/assasin, then should you really be focusing on healing while your trying to nuke and shadow step?

PvE only skills are great in GWEN, but considering most do what existing skills already do, they are not quite that great. You could just set your secondary as a damage dealer if damage is what you want, or as healer if healing is what you want.

Again the bottom line is that these skills arent that important and they are more a collectable item then a necessity.

Also even at low ranks, alot of these skills are still very strong (obviously the higher the rank, the more powerfull), so unless you choose to increase your rank because your either anal or feel its really important, then why bother?

You cant say we're being "forced" or "incouraged" to increase ranks at all, because nothing we gain from higher ranks is a necessity.

Those who feel they are, are either vanity players who want new armor or weapons, or those who (for some reason) feel they have to own an oober powerfull skill that wont really make their game that much better.

I do admit grind exists in alot of forms in GWs, but it is far worse in factions and NF then it is in GWEN. In factions you are forced to reach 10k before you continue and in NF you need rank 1 SS before you continue.

You also need to use LB gaze in NF which does incourage grind in that title.

But aside from LB gaze, none of the pve only skills accross any of the games are forcing you to do anything. Ive actually never used any except LB gaze and the odd two I experimented with on the last dungeon in GWEN.

I cant say I felt any huge advntage using them, over what I had anyway.

Its this "collectors" mentality which is driving this dislike for the ranks in GWEN. People want to collect armor and weapons and pve only skills and have them be as oober strong as they can. But because ranks get in the way they get annoyed.

Its understandable, but it certainly doesnt unbalance anything.

There are people suggesting that connected ranks to titles is incouraging this mentality of "your rank isnt high enough, so you cant enter our pug" and "have you got this pve only skill with you? if not get out".

But since pve only skills were added, I have not once see that happen except with LB gaze and that was only to ask if it was equipped. Ive certainly never seen anyone be kicked for not having a certain rank or a certain pve only skill equipped.

That is the kind of thing that happens in HOA, but not in pve and its just scare-mungering!

PvE only skills are...

1) optional.
2) most likely to be used after you have completed the game/campaign/expansion so they offer no advantage while doing the storyline.
3) offer no real advantage because....
4) are just copies of most specialised profession skills.
5) are still just as impressive as low ranks (rank 5 being easy to get).
6) dont incourage that "use it or get out" attitude.
6) dont incourage that "your ranks not high enough" attitude.
7) just collectable skills that you use to spice things up.

...they also exist to try and add life to the game because people know they can make them stronger by increasing ranks. But thats optional!

Lets assume Anet had added the pve only skills without an attachment to ranks and we all had them maxed out.

That means we would all be running around with the ability to heal for +100 health (with what ever that pve only skill is that exists). It means we could all do oober damage or withstand oober damage.

It would make the game extremely easy. We dont want everyone ingame to have their skills to be that powerfull. The only solution would have been to either make pve only skills that werent as powerfull or not add them at all.

Would you rather a skill that only healed for +50 health at max? I doubt it, because you can get better monk skills then that!

But Anet had to add things to push us to continue playing for the next 2 years and ive not yet heard anyone offer any better alternatives then titles and pve only skills connected to titles?

If one of you can suggest a better way to expand the life of the game without needing titles (even though i like titles), then suggest it and contact Anet.

But you cant just suggest they released a new expansion every 3 months because they have to concentrate on GW2.

I think we are on to something, GRIND SUCKS!!! We got him to admit it!

Also, you are correct. I don't care about the armor in DOA. I don't care about the armor in GWEN. I am not interested in the consumables because they are tied to GRIND.

If skills unbalance the game as they have in other areas. Only those with GWEN will be able to play it as PUGs will want a skill that a non-GWEN player doesn't have. That is the issue at hand.

Goes to show you why you can't appease grinders. They will always just demand more grind. Once you accept the idea of grind--even for vanity items only--there is no turning back.

It creeps in an MMO like death in the night.

It grows like the gallows tree in the hangman poem. It won't stop until the last man in town is forced to grind.

Freeked, I gotta ask a question. I do not know why you write so much to sugar-coat "grind extends the game", since that is the entirety of your argument. I think that you should reconsider the whole discussion, since this is an entertainment product, what does that say about the the state of the game in general, and you in particular, when your whole argument is "grind extends the game"?

Thanks!
TabascoSauce

IMO i think what the meaing behind "grind extends the game" is that, once you have beaten the game and dungeons, Anet needs to keep you playing for the next year and a half. So what to do? They really didnt add any promised content in the game. So Anet needs to keep us busy for a long time to come and the easiest way they could think of doing that is grinding our hearts out.

Poor decision? Possibly. I rather like some of the grind to earn to use consumables. I think the consumables is one of the best parts of the game.

You know the saddest thing about the grind? They hardly tested the items you can get. Blindfold, not dyeable... highlander woad for very low hairlines only... magma gloves don't even display on some graphics cards... and loads of armors that are reskins? What the hell happened to this game? Was it farmed out to a sweatshop?

Are the PvE skills optional? Yes.
Do they make the game easier? Yes.
Do they ease the game even more with higher ranks? Yes.
*Do they make your character better than other characters? Yes.

That's the problem.

...More quests/dungeons/missions?

Almost missed this: Why do they need to keep us playing? It's not like we have a subscription or anything.

I have to say I find the expansion pack a disappointment.

I dislike WoW, but to be honest I think I'd rather play it than GW:EN, and if GW2 is going down this route then I won't be playing it.

Too many l-o-o-n-g drawn out quests: eternal dungeons and crappy Asuran characters. Nah, not for me,

Well if we complain a bit more they may change the whole stuff.

No really, I got 13 chars, getting to rank 5 with all of them is a pain in tha a**, even bigger if you never cared about titles.

I kinda never complained about Prophecies, Factions and Nightfall but GW:EN seems like another game.

Well as said, only hope is to keep complaining.

Well ive never said grind was a good thing and im not saying grind is good because it extends the life of the game.

All im saying is most things ingame that require grind arent necessities, so if you dont want to grind for an armor set, a title, a rank or a weapon you dont have to.

Its only Factions points, SS rank and LB gaze which forced you to grind and those are tiny fractions of the game. 95% of the other grinded content isnt important and is isnt required to complete the game.

Thats my entire point. Not that grind is ok or good, because its not.

But most of the stuff you grind isnt important. I dont think adding titles to max out is an ideal way to keep us playing for 2 years, but its one option and it works.

Im gonna want to increase my reputation points just because im anal and I like to do that. But its not important and its my choice.

People are welcome to go play another game for 2 years instead of grinding titles or armor and weapons or skills. But people cant complain about grind being Anets way to keep us playing unless they suggest alternative ways to do it.

Aside from releasing new expansions every 2 months I dont see how they could do it aside from adding titles to grind. Its not great as I say, but its one way of doing it.

Good I am glad we that grind is not good. We have some common ground.

Agreed again. I am not interested in any material things. I am interested in keeping the game balanced, so untie skills to titles and the title farmers can have at it.

And because of this, the game is balanced up until GWEN.

I am so glad to hear you say GRIND is not good.

Anet got the money already from us. Wether we play or not is irrelevant for this discussion. This does not cost money a month to play.

This will work on the C, spacebar crowd, but not the rest of us.

Totally agree with you, it is your choice. Should it not be everyones choice without effecting the game on them. (Lets state this again so it doesn't turn into an armor or material discussion. I could care less about what is offered in GWEN in the material area.)

Got one for ya. Take the skills out of the titles. Do that and I will have fun in my areas of the game uneffected by skills that I am not interested in. And please see the above posts on PUGs before we hear again how this does not effect the game, it does, proven last night and GWEN has only been out a week. I can imagine a month from now.

It is one way of doing it. My concern in the end is that this is considered OK to do. This shows poor development and lack of ideas in the end. GWEN could have been so much more then it is. It could have really blown the socks off of us. It did not have to be large to do it. What we got is a different animal.

GWEN reminds me of the movie "STAR TREK: Search for Spock". Star Trek was running high in the ratings. The franchise was doing very well and Paramount decided to do a low budget movie to capitalize on it. The movie goers got what they paid for, a C+ movie.

Now, I know people like titles and grind. Nothing wrong with that at all. I will chuckle on a regular basis and thank you for maxing them so I don't have to buy a scroll to go to UW and FOW when I want. The minute you change the rules and force grind, you loose players. These are players that you will not get back because they were the ones that originally bought Guild Wars before there was a Prophecies. They were the ones that beta'd. They were the ones that went out and told the world how wonderful GW is. They were the ones that GW promised not to do this too.

Like I said before (My Opinion) GWEN is the price of a couple of bad movies. Good news is it didn't last that long. Thing is, now it is turning into being reruned on all the channels and I can't find anything else to watch because of the skills.

So true. I guess there was enough people in Anets mind that wanted another WOW but didn't want to pay a monthly fee to get it. They didn't want to actually GO TO WORK to get WOW, so they wanted it here ruining the game.

Please remember...

I must not GRIND. GRIND is the mind-killer. GRIND is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my GRIND... I will permit it to pass over me and through me.

I'm so not even worried about grind in Eotn at all. I'm just hoping at some point they will put in a HM, and I can get the titles naturally while I'm working on vanquisher. In the meantime it's just taking a little longer to get them playing through the game and clearing maps for fun, doing dungeons, etc. If at any point I feel like I'm doing the same thing over and over for the sole purpose of attaining a title and it feels more like work than fun, I'll probably go swimming, or maybe learn needlepoint, or even write a memoir no-one will ever read that I can lock in a box and bury on top of a very high mountain, and I'll come back later on when my interest has rekindled.

Have fun people, do what makes you happy.

So, what does that say about the the state of the game in general, and you in particular, when your whole argument is "grind extends the game"?

I can keep this up as long as you can.

Thanks!
TabascoSauce

To OP: Well it wouldnt be a title u would want to wear if everyone has it and u dont have to work for it?

So spending 200+ hrs farming money to get Fissure is better then spending 5 hours farming reputation? Unless you obviously bought your Fissure armor... which is also the reason why people with that armor dont earn my respect automatically. Plus the fact that it looks awfull and it stinks, but that just personal.

This is the bit I truly dont understand about your argument. I really cannot for the life of me, working out why you think having these GWEN pve only skills connected to titles is unbalancing the game.

As ive said alot now, your not forced to use these skills! Its not like LB gaze which was required and having a higher rank made an impact on the game itself and people might have judged you upon your rank.

If a person chooses to use one of GWENs pve only skill, they can and it has no impact on you as in individual or anyone else.

Whether another person has rank 1 Norn or rank 7 Norn and their Norn skill is more or less effective then yours, has no impact on your game or anyone elses.

Its completely personal and isolated to that individuals gaming experience.

Their not connected to pvp so it has no impact there either.

The effectiveness of these skills is completely related to yourself, and your title. You choose whether you want to increase those ranks or not to make it more effective.

If you keep it low it only effects you, if you increase it, it only effect you! There are no outworldly effects or impacts on anyone else.

Im sure there is a post above somewhere which explains how and why you think what you do (and ill look), but im really cannot get my head around this notion of GWENs pve skills unbalancing anything.

I accept that (for example) if one person has their Norn skill more powerfull then someone elses, it may make their gameplay easier. But again that is their individual gaming experience and it was their choice to increase it. You have the same choice, but because these skills arent necessary to complete the game you are no at any disadvantage in terms of completing the storyline.

How ever (as I said in an earlier post) by the time you have aquired most of these pve only skills, you're most likely to have completed GWEN and have completed one or all the other campaigns.

There for they wont give you any kind of an edge, unless you are replaying through missions, quests or dungeons. But because you will have done them already, its not a necessity. Their just nice little skills to use and mix things up.

Granted, you could be the kind of person who doesnt continue playing until you have unlocked ALL your pve only skills, but why do that? Why spend endless hours playing polymock or drawf boxing or play tournaments to get pve only skills you dont need to do the game?

These pve only skills really are just like collectable items, which you achieve and then use after the game is complete in dungeons and repeatable quests to make things a bit more interesting.

I accept some people will have this opinion of "Its not fair because that person has his pve Norn skill more powerfull then mine" and they'l pout and have a paddy and a cry.

But what does it matter? it has no impact on them or you if someone else has a more powerfull Norn skill.

One argument I heard as that this mentality of...

"Oh you havent got a high enough Norn rank, so you cant join our PUG"

...or...

"Have you got this pve Norn skill? if not you cant join us"

...was creeping into GWEN, but i havent seen or experienced that myself. And if I did, I would leave the party and use my guild. I would refuse to play with such arrogant, anal people.

Im sorry if I seem to be repeating myself and if I seem stubborn about this, but its like trying to work out quantum physics as to why you think this is unbalancing the game. Maybe that makes me seem like im stupid, and fair enough if it does. But the mechanics behind PvE only skills is that unimportant to me, has that small an impact on my gaming experience and doesnt make me even flutter an eyelid thinking about it.... that I really cant understand why so many people are getting wound up about this.

Its got to be the last thing on my mind when concerning GWEN about whether or not you need higher ranks to use PvE only skills. It really doesnt register very high with me in terms of importance ingame. Probably because I havent used any or felt the need to.

PvE only skills are items/skills that only impact the individual and their individual gaming experience. It has no outward impacts on anyone else around them.



Its hard for me to understand why it bothers anyone.

Google the Advanced Lawnmower Simulator (ALS for short).

You'll play it once or twice, and have fun sending it to your friends, but it gets old fast because it is exactly the same content.

Now imagine that they had a central completion counter for the ALS. If you complete it 6 thousand times, then you get a bonus!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Your lawnmower will go 20 percent faster!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahooooo!

Welcome to the new vision of GW(?) Make a short game, then put superskills tied to repetitive grind area-clearing. Wow, doesn't that sound like a winner?

Oh, and the best the grind-supporters can say is that it is optional? So, what other option do I have? Play different areas? Oh, no, they did not make any.

So, go ahead and suggest that I play a different game. Then I'll get to ask you, what does that say about the game when the only alternative you have to offer me in the game besides grind (since there is a shortage of game) is.... go play another game? Heh, just exactly what does that say?

Thanks!
TabascoSauce

As you put it, if a skill makes the game a little easier. Does this not effect the whole team?

If it does, will this not effect who you want to take with you if you do like to do DOA, FOW, UW, Urgoz, The Deep, ect. It does effect it. The only way it will not, is if you play alone.

A Ruby dijin sprouting imodulate effects the game for the team. You either have it, or you don't.

Please remember...

I must not GRIND. GRIND is the mind-killer. GRIND is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my GRIND... I will permit it to pass over me and through me.

It took me about three days to get my Vanguard to rank 5, so that's not an issue at all. However, in that time I also got rank 5 Dwarf and Norn, with a lowly rank 4 for Asura...

I understand that the grind is a bit of a pain, but here again, it comes to raiding vs. pvp. For those from WoW, you know what I mean, but I'll explain all the same...

PvP requires little time anymore; it just needs you to be on every-once-in-a-while to get some good armor. Raiding requires you to be on almost every day, like a job almost, 5-8 hours a day perhaps getting the best armor in the game.

Those whom have the time are able to get the best armor in the game. Those whom do not have to settle for sub-par.

Guild Wars, however, requires no work, really, for the best armor in the game. Heck, you can buy it in one of those starting towns. We all know that however. I'll get to the point, however...

These armor sets and weapons are optional. Guild Wars 2 is about a year off or so. The grinds aren't that bad, the new content is short as crap and it takes no effort to nail most of these armor's and etc. The largest grind, I believe, is for the 75 ectos needed for your dragon gloves and the like. Otherwise, the mats are rather simple.

Know what happened when these debates came up in WoW? Blizzard lost a huge player base. Guild Wars: be prepared for the same.

See, I'm at 46k dwarf and 30k Norn and 16k Asura and 13k Vangaurd, but i havent grinded one thing, I've just been doing dungeons, and enjoying it.

One of the nicer things about Kurzick/Luxon Faction grind, is that you can choose a variety of ways to get the Faction points. Alliance Battles, mob-clearing with Blessings, or repeatable quests. Faction is also shared account-wide, so you can complete the same quests with different professions.

While the different methods have varying point rewards for the same time spent, which I regard is a small failure, it breaks the monotony for the players who are not FFF addicts.

It is not perfect, but it's not a bad solution. They invented this system, and perhaps they should have applied this to Nightfall and EotN.

Oh, I would have loved that. I could CHOOSE the way I got it.

Please remember...

I must not GRIND. GRIND is the mind-killer. GRIND is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my GRIND... I will permit it to pass over me and through me.

Ofcourse adding a person with a higher rank and a certain pve only skill might make your questin or mission or dungeon easier.

But aside from LB gaze you dont need to use pve only skills in any aspect of the game. Sorry but if your the kind of person who is going to look at a player and think "their rank isnt high enough" and not accept them, then thats childish.

Especially when you dont need to be using these pve only skills at all. You can do FOW, UW, Urgoz and The Deep without any pve only skills. People seemed to manage before pve only skills were added!

LB gaze and its connected title are the only instance when this might happen and I can understand it. But the difference wih LB gaze is that its damage doesnt change with your rank, only the number of creatures it effects. So again its not hugely important that a person has a high lightbringer rank for it to be effective.

So NO, it doesnt unbalance the game because you DONT need to use pve only skills in any instance except when facing Abaddons forces.

What if your trying to do an area and you ask if people have a certain pve only skill and they dont? they might not own that campaign or GWEN!

Are you going to kick them or not accept them?

Its no different if you wanted to form a party and someone doesnt have a certain skill because they dont own the right campaign! Does that justify kicking them or not accepting them? No!! Because you dont need that one skill, its purely preference and purely because it might make it easier.

Its not because it not a necessity.

You are all acting like pve only skills are sooo important, that you cant live without them. That you cant do elite zones without them and a high rank. Like the entire game will fall apart unless you have a high enough rank to take advantage of them.

Seriously.... get over it!

We managed long before pve only skills were added, and managed to play FOW, UW and the faction elite zones before pve only skills were added. We managed to do quests and missions without them.

I even completed GWEN without using any and I only started using LB gaze in NF near the very end and I still survived!

PvE only skills mean squat in this game, and they are not important and they are necessities. They are just nice to use like any other skill. If you are going around rejecting people from groups because they dont have high enough ranks in certain titles and because they dont use certain pve only skills, I think that speaks for your mentality.

You act and speak like its acceptable for people to judge a person by their rank and whether they get accepted into groups?

Its like anything new to the game!

"Oooo we have new skills which will make certain things easier. Right, dont let anyone in the team unless they use it and they have a high rank!!!"

The exact same thing happened with Searing Flames was added! I had virtually every party I tried to enter ask if I was using SF and they all tried to force me to use it. And this was just for easy missions!

I just refused and said my build was fine.

This has nothing to do with pve only skills unbalancing anything. It has everything to do with elite morons, trying to dictate to use which new skills we should be using in certain areas and judging you on whether your good enough to join them based on your rank.

Something which shouldnt happen and doesnt need to happen.

You can do elite zones without pve only skills, you can do all quests and missiosn and dungeons without pve only skills! They are not required at all (except maybe LB gaze)!

So nooo, they dont unbalance the game!

Good you acknowledge that this effects the game no matter how you want to call it.


Actually the title also reduces and increases damage overall. Hence the reason the title huggers in the groups require it.

But now they are asking for skills from there. They are limiting the teams because of it. So, it is do it and be bored to tears, or never to areas I love to do again.

You are looking at the damage from the skill and not the title. The title reduces the damage you take and increases the damage to the mobs overall.

Oh, but it does unbalance the game when it effects the teams.

I wouldn't. I would use the skill set they have. That is me. It is not the majority of GW playerbase though. Hate to tell you, but this goes on everyday, each day.

It is becoming a necessity if teams require it.

So you are asking me not to do elite areas of the game anymore? Asking me not to PUG? I just want to make sure that you have turned into a developer or owner of GW and are asking a customer to leave.

I agree, and you weren't asked to use them, because they didn't exist. Now they do and teams are requiring them.

I don't reject them. I agree the metality sucks. Title huggers will always have this mentality though.

Except now skills are tied to it. So it is grind or leave the areas you like to play.

Agreed. But there are plenty of title huggers out there that effect the game and it gets worse everyday.

Agreed, it should never happen, but it does.

They do, when it limits anything a player can do through the limits of the game, or the effect it has on the community. This effected the community by adding in overpowered skills that you have to grind for.

Please remember...

I must not GRIND. GRIND is the mind-killer. GRIND is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my GRIND... I will permit it to pass over me and through me.

You didnt answer my question. Where in the entire game (aside from LB gaze and against abaddon forces) do you have to use a pve only skill or you cant do that area, quest, mission or dungeon?

Aside from areas where it helps to have LB gaze where else do you need a pv only skill and you need to have a high rank to be effective?

If you cant name any accept for areas where you face abbadons forces, then you're entire arguement falls apart.

Your basing your agruement on the idea that lots of areas exist where people are being forced into increasing ranks to make their pve only skills more effective, because if they dont they cant proceed!

I would like you to list those areas (not including LB gaze ones becaue I accept that as the only one)?

OK, let me try this again.

If teams require a skill I do not have because I refuse to do the ENDLESS, MINDLESS, HATED, BORING, WORK of title farming to get skills that are tied to it, how am I going to team?

Teams are already requiring it.

I hate to tell you, but not all people feel that the skills are not useful in a team. So, it is have it or don't join us. I don't feel that way, but to many TITLE HUGGERS already do. Enough to limit my play areas each day.

Is that fair? Is that balanced?

The argument, "Just don't join that team" does not hold up when ALL the teams are requiring it now!

Please remember...

I must not GRIND. GRIND is the mind-killer. GRIND is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my GRIND... I will permit it to pass over me and through me.

I find this hilarious, because the unbalanced aspect your talking about isnt the result of Anet combining titles and pve only skills.

Its the result of players like you and your l33t attitudes of trying to dictate what builds to use and what titles to show.

Again I ask...

1) are you incapable of playin FOW, UW and the faction lite zones without some pve only skills?

2) what if a person didnt have the campaign or expansion which gave them the pve only skill you demand?

This has nothing to do with Anet unbalancing the game. This has everything to do with "oh a new skill has been added and unless you use it, you cant join our PUG"!

Despite the fact you dont need those skills to actually play those elite zones. I said this befor... how did we play those elite zones befor pve only skills were added? we must have managed somehow!!

This is nothing more then a l33t attitude of select players trying to force their notion of what skills should be used in elite zone. If you dont have use them or have high enough ranks to be l33t enough, you cant join.

Its you players who are removing the choice about using pve only skills and the choice about increasing ranks. Not Anet!!!

You players have once again twisted somethin that worked absolutely fine, slapped it with your elite stick and made it compulsary. So now people have to max their title or they cant join you in elite areas!

I have to laugh at the hyprocrasy!

And you were all trying to say that I was dictatin how to play the game? lol!!!! Your basically saying to me that if a person doesnt have a high enough rank in a title and doesnt use a pve only skill (that they dont need to) then you dont accept them into your elite zone pug!!

Thats hilarious!!

And people complain about cookie cut build, and you guys are basically dictating how people should play elite zone and what pve only skills they should use and what titles they should max out.

Thats the ultimate cookie cut build!



I think your arguement just sank about 10 miles bellow the ocean along with your l33t attitudes. This is exactly why i dont play elite zones because of players like yourself who try to dictate builds and skills, even though you dont neeed them.

Freeked, we all understand that you think people who require titles are bad.

But you yourself are saying that this is happening:

Need, schmeed. You dont play elite-type zones to avoid the problem while you are trying to tell dragon there is not a problem?

Thanks!
TabascoSauce

I said i dont play elite zones because that kind of thing does happen. Read what I wrote!

This unbalance issue you talk about is nothing more then you trying to cover up the fact that you want everyone to have these skills at max capacity to use in elite zones.

You're p'd off because you want everyone in your PUG to copy your build and use the pve only skills you order them too.

But because they require ranks to increase their power/strength, your annoyed because it means not everyones skill will be as effective as the other.

I appreciate that, but what you seem to completely miss is you dont need these pve only skill to play elite zones.

The only reason people are feeling pressured into increasing ranks for their skills, or even feel the need to use these skills is because l33t players like yourself are ordering them too.

Your tall talking about how GWs is meant to be about fun and enjoying the game right? You say you dont want to grind because you dont enjoy it!

How is it fun for another player in an elite zone to be rejected or kicked from a group just because their rank isnt high enough, or they dont bring a certain pve only skills?

I dont play elite zones because that elite attitude ruins the fun for me. I've tried joining pugs for FOW and UW and alike before and you spend 30 minutes with the leader shouting "ping build" and then picking it apart like hes all-high-and-mighty.

Not politeness, no manors... just dictating how you should play!

And your defending that kind of attitude by forcing other playes in elite zones to max titles just to make (un-required) pve only skills more powerfull.

There is no unbalance in the game due to pve only skills.

The unbalance is a result of elite players forcing and pressuring people to increase those ranks and use those skills!

All of this would be a moot point if either they didn't exist or were not tied to title. As it is now. This happens because of the title huggers.

Please remember...

I must not GRIND. GRIND is the mind-killer. GRIND is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my GRIND... I will permit it to pass over me and through me.