GWEN...new title GRIND!

Then you're not who I was refering to. If getting out of your way to get reputations like doing dungeons and bounties are too boring and hard, then perhaps it's time to reevaluate your item of interest. Is the armor really worth the trouble? Your answer to this should let you know if you need to get these reputation points at all.

It's good that you're enjoying yourself, and aren't nervous about reputation ranks, not many people are that secure about themselves.

Oh yes, I remember that. But people have been complaining in this thread that LB Gaze at a high LB rank was necessary. TBH this is news to me. My rank on any of my characters isn't above 4. I packed the skill ONCE when I first got it and decided I didn't like it. Hasn't be put in my skill bar since.
Granted I've not been to DoA at all, but that isn't a part of the actual storyline, normal mode or hard mode.

I suppose what I'm saying is that I almost never pack PvE skills. I don't see the point. Most of my builds centre around a COLLECTION of skills, rather than just one - so swapping one skill out for another "uber-PvE" skill in most cases makes my skill bar less effective. Of course I could just not take res, but I don't believe that res is optional in PvE. Certainly, if I find a skill that fits into my bar nicely, maybe I'll use it - but if I find it isn't as powerful as I hope I'll ditch it for another skill that does do what I want.

I don't understand why people are complaining that grind is NEEDED to play the game. It isn't. If the skills aren't considered "usable", you don't use them. A lot of mesmer skills (non-pve only) aren't "usable", most players siimply don't use them or find "new/different" ways of using them. PvE skills at least give the option of possibly improving the skills, yes via grind (at high lvls only), other skills cannot be helped except if Anet buffs them. I don't see the thread that reads - I can't play the game without X, Anet please buff it.

Yes I disagree with grind, yes getting HIGH (read not lvl5) rep lvls is grind, but I fail to see how the game is "unplayable" because of this. It isn't factions where you need 10k, or NF where NF characters need to be a certain rank (TBH SS General was easy enough to reach though). There is nothing that gets in the way of doing the missions, or doing the dungeons.

I don't think that's very constructive... a better insult at them is to play another game. We won't miss you.

Thanks for your opinion. And no, a sack of marbles and GW:EN are on the opposite side of the spectrum.

You can go ahead and shout racial slurs if you wanted to, I can't stop you.

We'll know a slap in the face when we see one, but it's meaningless unless you have some pie charts showing the "slap in the face" percentage. Otherwise I can easily say the company is boasting with success...


Now this is a better, more constructive criticism. Should've said something like this to begin with. But no, I don't work for Anet.

She said it best. If getting all those reputation points was necessary to progress the game like Factions or Sunspear points, then there's no question about it, there's gotta be an easier way.

I'd like it if Polymock got a higher reward than it does. Kicking Hoff's ass in Tourney mode nets me a measly 100 points at best.

Sure, it doesn't take very long, but it also gets me nothing other than those points and a tad of satisfaction. Up the rewards on the minis and the dungeons, and lower the rewards for clearing.

I hate Polymock period. I don't think that is something that I'll complete in the next 3 months. You have to pretty much relearn the skills that they give to the pieces. I have discern for the Norn Arena too. Though Dwarven boxing was pretty fun.

Well hells bells grind smind... lol... FoW, Tombs, NF Elites, SS/LB... All forms of grinding IMHO... Fun stuff in my mind... But you do have to work hard doing these... That's the fun right?... I think the difference here is the Armor reward you recieve for your hard work in GW:EN... You want your charictor to be kewl, hot, mean, best looking thing around but your limited to the options the game allows... New Expantion pack with 40 New armor sets... Kewl as heck.. I'm there... but WTF... I already have something that looks like this... OMG... GW2 and no more for GW... *sniff*... I've been playing for years and haven't even come close to completing all the content that is available... Damn good game... D... But no more enhancements for me as the focus turns to GW2... I'm taking a stab that this is what is running though people's minds... It is mine... So with that said I came up with this idea for a little change that might not be so hard to achieve and also satisfy the wants of some others (including myself)... An end game, quest, mission, something high level where you could get a "Ruine of Nudism"... D... This would allow you give your bare skin or undergarments a low level armor value... Something like lvl60...(Sorry Tanks)... And be able to add other ruines and inscriptions as you wish to customize it for your individual needs... Being able to dye your undergarments would also be nice... With this little ruine you now have openned the door for a whole lot of different charictor looks... BTW... I go for the hot look if you haven't guessed already... lol...

Let me point out that you all would've whined if there was no grind in this game, as everything would come easy...

You had me at hello

More options are nice, but reducing reputation ranks is not a viable option.

Mulitple options, some with grind, some without is the perfect design
Having a single grind based option very, very bad design.

Having skills single tiered (not titles, you can have as many title tiers as you want for all I care) is halfway between the two as it gives casual players full access to the skills while still allowing grindmonkeys to wear their c and space keys out so thier faction number can go up.

Either way, so long as that what is currently there is changed.

Why grind when it doesn't improve the skill?

Just asking. I wouldn't grind it to begin with, but doesn't grindmonkeys grind so they can improve these PvE skills because they feel like they somehow can't pass the game without it?

Same reason people grind for cartographer or alehound - the title.

There are people who go the extra distance specifically to improve the PvE skills and still don't think it's boring... I don't think they wouldn't call it a "grind".

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Cellar, before we re-engage our everlasting futile dispute in which obviously neither of us will give footing. I think I can sum up our differences.

You think these ranks are more than just optional, because higher ranks provide slightly more benefits to PvE skills that will give players who've killed more monsters an edge over players who straight-shot the quest instead. You think it's an unfair advantage.

I can see the difference in advantage, and my argument is that it's so minor I can hardly imagine someone who would be concerned by it. Obviously this is before I heard your opinions. I opt that these powerful PvE skills in the hands of other players are so transparent, I can hardly notice any advantageous difference. Even though I agree it's there.

If these minor differences is so important, then I won't argue with you that these PvE skills are pretty damn important too. It's just not a shared opinion.

On the other hand I also think the reputations are fine where they are because I didn't feel any trouble getting to r4, or even r5. However it seems like it was slightly more difficult for you. So it also seems like we're treading different paths with more or less monsters on it. You want the ranks to be reduced for various reasons, but most importantly for PvE skills, because you've felt that once you've hit level 20, there's nothing else you should level on.

So there's where I disagree, an issue of Time Spent > Skills and Ingenuity, or Skills and Ingenuity > Time Spent. When the obvious reason should be more Time Spent = Skills and Ingenuity, that one can easily out match the other, or vice versa. Just a theory.... but easier said than done of course. How to implement such balance between getting a top teir PvE skill instantly, and still be able to improve upon it. hmmmm.... how?

You say this in a game where a +30 mod is worth 20k and a +29 mod is worth 1k. Is 1 HP ever going to actually matter? Almost always no. Obviously, the vast majority of players are "concerned" by small advantages. No need to imagine.

Ultimately you and I are arguing about what the second best solution is, so rather than go back and forth for the next few days. Can we just say that anet should ways to get full access to the game content through play instead of work.

play for

And just for clarity's sake, what I feel is that when you finish leveling, the game begins- L20 is just one of the parameters. Up to the point you've finished leveling, you're just preparing your character for play.

And I think that is just absolutely silly. Worrying about that 1 HP... but you're right, seems like there's more than one person concerned about small advantages.

If they can afford it, they'd fork out the extra 19k to pay for it, instead of asking the salesman to "lower the price pls".

Even if that means killing alot of monsters? Not that that's what I enjoy, but obviously not everone sees that as a kind of grind. Some people don't see killing monsters to raise ranks any different than killing monsters to beat mission.

The general uproar on the fansites should be enough to indicate to you how many people don't think killing monsters to make a number go up is fun. Pleasing "some people" isn't a good way to run a service industry, they should be developing services to meet clients needs, not developing a service and expecting a their customers to adapt themselves to it.

Isn't it possible that the people who are enjoying the game, are playing instead of on this forum? Considering most of the time people come here only because they're frustrated with the game. You don't need to answer that, because none of us will really know the real numbers behind it.

It just seems like the idea you're trying to push, ie. lowering the standards and requirements so we don't have to work so hard for it... goes against what the thing I like about guild wars, and if it went in your direction I wouldn't be pleased.