A discussion on 7 heroes

Not all pugs are like that, and dont think ive ever have had a pug that has taken 2hrs for a mission. Also when was this pug before or after NF? even if NF ive had some good pugs, i did most of NF with pugs after it came out, not saying they are all good but it was not that hard do to do and have little to no hang ups.

I almost never did henchmen partys, dont forget they have added new IA to them now, back then they sucked and even pugs were better. Also you cant change builds/flag henchmen like you can heros.

also yes i can blame heros for killing pugs, most the people posting here say they'd take heros over pugs.

ive played for 3 years and have NP helping the new players. The other day i was doing some HM missions and some 1 was asking for help in the mission, so i stopped and did the mission for him. also told him to check out guru for help with build etc :O

nope but taking away all heros will

i lol'ed IRL


this helps my point. trade areas full of people, outpost no1 cause they just add H/H and go.



i did all of factions with pugs and was done the 2nd or 3rd day the game came out.



no it didnt, you can level up a char in proph in a few hrs.



yes they were.....



some places you need a guild to do what can i say :O

Because as I said PuGs when you get a decent group make it too easy for one and too hard when there rubbish, some of the goals I have do not fit with PuGs when was the last time you saw someone requesting a team to go vanquish an area, not to mention 'some' dungeons as well in HM aren't even requested for at all along with missions as well.

I don't because I like to go at my own pace sometimes slow sometimes fast depends on the area.

I don't because it takes too flipping long to find all the people to put into a team and have long and tediously boring conversations about everyones build, I like to get on with things in fact I'm walking to the portal while I add the henchman, if you see me standing still in an outpost your privileged

I don't because I don't want long conversations about my skill bar, it does it's job well enough to vanquish 3 contents plus 3 areas of EoTN it will certainly work anywhere else, and if that skill bar isn't good enough for that area that did all that content as stated before, chances are I've already changed skills to suit the area before even joining a PuG.

I don't because my time is valuable if someone else stuffs up they've wasted my time, if I stuff up with my h/h then I've wasted mine, further more if I stuff up I've wasted someone else's time including my own, best solution take h/h and only have myself to blame.

I don't because I don't like the immature drawings of genitals on my radar, it's a sacred holy place that is only for use for directions, not the scrawlings of some demented 8 year old with a penis fetish.

I don't because I like to park up for any amount of time due to personal life interfering, heck I've stopped off in some areas for 15-20 minutes to practice playing a musical instrument just because I felt like it.

I don't because H/H past there uncalculatable faults are actually dependable, it's harder to play with them though but that's part of the challenge.

I don't because I might say something some senile little moron disagrees with and that's fine, but I'm not fine with them in there rage typing /report because of it, of course naturally this is on the low end scale of reasons still however it is one.

I don't because every now and then you see someone getting picked on or abused because of X,Y or Z that they did wrong defend them I have in my time but I should not have to deal with this immaturity, and thanks to h/h I don't have too.

Think that about sums that up there are likely more but those are the ones off the top of my head.

Ok, finally finished reading this entire thread....

I'm a bit confused as too why the PuG guys and the Hero advocates are at each others throats. The play styles are different, the reasons for partying are different, the amount of time (in some cases) is completely different that the individuals can give to the game.

I don't feel I could say it and better thou then Shasgaliel.

This is the resonating reason that PuGs will die, now that people can choose 7 heroes why PuG? Like it has been said by all the anti-hero people in this thread, it will destroy PuG because people will take 7 heroes. This is probably the most flawed argument I have ever heard.

I have played this game now since the closed beta of prophecy, back then it was bug or henchmen. And yes, there are some genuinely talented PuGs out there, most of which I recruited and still retain in my guild to this day, conversely I lost count after 20-30 failed attempts and doing a PuG through Thunderhead keep. At which point I took one guildie and henchmen and finished it in half the time. I then later returned and did the bonus with henchmen and completed second try. When I came back to do the bonus I saw the same people close to 4 days earlier, that cause massive over aggros/uninfused/poor builds/trying to afk, still spamming for a PuG to complete the mission.

At that point getting to perdition Rock, I never touched a PuG again till factions. Heroes in now way kill off the PuG. The PuG is a place for people who dare I say it, want to be mentally abused by others. In HA if you take a team of humans, now the only option, people will hound you for being nubbish, but they'll keep you if they need you to go, granted you have the correct rank. Not only that but they wont afk or attempt to cause failure. Why? there is incentive, they want to win.

What is the incentive for a PVE, to complete the mission? they why don't people listen? I'm all for completion with human parties PuG or Guild groups, if available. But why the hell, pardon the language, should I have to accept a failure of a team for the sake of repeating it in 15 minutes after wasting time to find out Kilroy over here loves to over-aggro mursaat w/o infused armor?

The PuG will survive, if the 7 Heroes are implemented, people that genuinely want to PuG will do so just like how people who genuinely don't PuG wont. The loss of members from the PuG community will be people that were forced to be there, due to poor friends lists or poor timing for completion of missions.
In a way those out there afraid of the destruction of PuG should want this to occur faster. Once it happens all of the real failures that want to doom you because of their ignorance, after being flamed enough would just go and H/H it. Your then left with truly devoted groups of talented individuals that want to be there.

sound to me you just want a single player game, really it does, you dont want to talk to people, you want a pause button, want to play your way "not with team work, and if your time is so "valuable" why do you post on guru?

Game is allready so easy so why would it need to be easyer? it should be simple 1 hero for each class just

That would be incorrect if I wanted to PvP then I would make every effort to find people however right now I've no desire to PvP.

Why do I post on guru because this matter interests me and I'm 1 more vote to the pile which I like to hope that AreanNet after seeing the demand might actually do something.

theres a better way to get Anet to hear what you have to say, Email.

The polls are in: those who want 7 heroes outnumber those who don't 4:1.

I guess that means 80% of those polled aren't worried about the supposed "death of PUGging"!

Even with 7 heroes, people can still PUG. It's just an option, folks. A preference in play-style, which is what GW offered. Not "forced to play with others." Tackle the game with a team, or on your own - it's your choice.

For me, this is kind of like the argument regarding elite areas: should they be H&H-able? Good arguments both ways that all come down to: how I prefer to play the game. How do I derive the most fun out of it?

The ones who argue that 7 heroes will kill PUGs seem to be the ones who have gotten the most enjoyment out of playing that way (challenge, social interaction, whatever). But, as this is only for one aspect of the game (PvE), I don't see the zealous attachment to it. Let people play the way they want! For those who prefer H&H, let them!

Things are simple.

1- ppl that don't pug cause pug are bad.
2- these ppl want 7 heroes.
3- puggers don't want that cause there will be less pug.
4- but non-puggers already don't pug so.........

5- give 7 heroes to ppl who wants to H/H.
6- introduce a new heroes named "Mr. Pug" for the the puggers.

10- Everyone is happy !!

people without heroes will never get into groups cuz of everyone using their heroes to fill their party
rather not see this happen

Anet's thoughts 1 year ago on 7 heroes.

Will they change their minds? I wouldn't bet on it, as they see using a max of 3 heroes as part of GW design. I know that Gaile always made a big emphasis that Anet wanted people to group in pairs (2 players 6 heroes) as opposed to do everything on their own (cant be bothered to fish out the thread).

Although people a year ago wouldn't have imagined a PvP / PvE skill split, so I guess anythings possible.

At the moment, you already never find a pug. That's why ppl use heroes and henchmen.

LOL. I can say the same about Prophecies, but TRY AND DO IT TODAY. Better yet, try and do it with a new char. Do any complete campaign in NM -PUG ONLY- no henchies, guildies or heroes allowed and then repeat on HM. Once you have done it, if you manage to have the patience you will need, come back and post how much time it took you.

simple as put .... they should allow us to have 7 heroes so we can play the game the way WE want to play the game as well as the way they designed it. If u choose to pug then so be it, if u choose to play solo then so be it, and if solo then yes u should be able to have the ability to have the same build as a all RL person party, hence 7 Heroes. When i played regular i didnt mind the pugs not enen the weak ones, but now w/ less time 7 heroes is an attractive incentive 4 someone like me to play again more reg.

By far the best idea has been the simplest approach to resolve the flag issue, same 3 flagged hero system and the last 4 just like henchies are now, the only difference is theyd be customed skill bars too our liking.

From my personal experience on why i agree same as i did once before is over time more and more ppl are moving on to other games or the fact that there is so many ppl spread out amongst the 4 current GW games that sometimes it makes it near impossible to find a good decent group for where you may need or want to do in game unless ur in an active cooperative guild. Unless ur farming for a title or popular area

PPL joke about, well then they ll just ask to add 11 so u can do elites ... eventually this will be a reality for those who still enjoy playing GW later when the population becomes even more scarce and they are trying to put things in their hall. IMO all of this should be taken into strong consideration by anet as they themself said they never expected GW to be enjoyed the way it was and now after 5 yrs their has to be more compromise to the situation due to the game they redesigned.

True, but if you remember to add the time you spent playing before the game was released, perhaps not by all that much.

That's a bit harsh - I've never laughed so hard as when I decided to try to PUG Aurora Glade. The antics and drama was priceless, and against all odds (and ragequits) we actually succeeded with the mission.

you may want to read other post before you start posting, I said that NF killed puging cause of heros. back then there were no heros so pugging was easier cause some good players pugged, thats been my main point in all this in showing how heros need to be removed cause they hurt the game more then help it, and asking for 7 will hurt it even more

So your arguement is that the game was better back when good players were forced to play a certain way that is ineffective, slow, frustrating, and likely to fail, but now that good players have a better option (and it's obviously better, or else your whole arguement about people stopping PuG'ing because of heroes would fall apart) you think the game is actually worse?

I don't see how anyone can follow that logic and be serious at the same time.

not true at all, every 1 had pug if they didnt do it with their guild, so there were more good players pugging was not that bad.

people still PUG in some situations
i PUG too even tho i can just take heroes 'n such
but what's the fun in doing it all alone while you can have a chat along the way killing stuff?

The thing that bugs me about this is the bold part. It is like 3 years ago ANET knew pugs would fail in difficult missions and pointed out the solution. It is almost like saying, "This mission is hard so you are better off going solo and taking henchmen.

Henchmen were a feature I liked because other MMO forced you to team with other players which like guild wars resulted in failure and wasted people's time. Good example right here Leroy Jenkins

Trying to find a good pug is not just a problem in Guild Wars, it is a problem with all online games I have played. If you don't want full hero parties then at least allow henchmen in elite missions, I don't have hours to sit around trying to find people to do an elite missions just to fail at the halfway point.

I have a couple hours to play each day and I am not wasting that time with a pug that has no chance of succeeding. Two accounts and six hero for the win.

So therefore every one liked it?

I'm not sure about your experience, but the experience I had as well as many, many others was the outright shitiness that came with having to pug difficult missions.

If you don't care about what I'm saying then why are you talking to me?

Then, quite honestly, get out. You forcing a playstyle down *MY* throat is no less damaging than the conception that heroes have had on pugging.

I also want to note that, as it's always been, the people who are going to benefit the most from heroes are people who've spent an exclusive amount of time on the game. Heroes are not "win" buttons, they're not overpowered. You need to know what you're doing with all of the professions to know how to succeed (Sabway not included, lolz).

Since most people are *not* that good at the game, they won't see a whole lot in heroes especially with the faulty and often unpredictable AI. Because of that, they'll continue to pug.

sure in a SP game do all of that you want but in a online RPG like Guild wars you have to come to a general agreement cause every change effects every 1. Now if your playing a online game and only want to use heros whats the point in playing a online game like GW? to stay away from other players? thats not a good reason imo.

i take it you have not seen discord.

Heroes don't ever quit unless you told them

Heroes don't say "pei pei, gougou shit, lalallalllal" and i'm being nice with the word.

With heroes, i have bonus on all mission. Not with pugger. (gorges : i don't need bonus. Elly : what is bonus ?? Mimi : pei pei !!)

Heroes run what i want for the mission/exploring !

Have u ever made a Quest with a pug ??? i've not done that for a long time.

edit : oh and what if "I" want to run 2 mesmer, 2 dervish, 2 assassin and 2 rit (healer) ?? can pug do things like taht ??

waht if a pug needs warrior, ele, monk, cookie cookie cookie i'm a dervish or a mesmer or a ritualist or ......

7 heroes is ftw

as for the pugs, how about finding a guild and do the talking part with them ??

Exactly. Now, keep that in mind while at the same time saying once again how you'd like to remove heroes altogether.

It's *part* of the reason. Would *you* want to play a game with people treated you like shit, especially moreso given the fact that you have to be in a party for every single area of the game? I most certainly would not. However, with Henchmen and even moreso with heroes, I'm given the option of playing the game in a less socially spiteful but more restricted way, and with that option I'm able to complete an overwhelming majority of the game. It's a win-win.

More than anything else, we have no idea whatsoever of what will happen with 7 heroes. If you look way back further in the thread you'll see me against the notion. But then came Ursan, more PvE skills, buff to elites *and* the PvE skills. Because of all these additions and changes, I highly doubt people will go "ZOMG HEROES" and quit pugging altogether. The possibility of a team with 24 PvE skills is for many a hard thing to throw away, especially since with heroes they would have to be making team builds *themselves* and having to deal with bad AI.

I've seen many things, many good elites, good builds, and good skills. But I get the most out of them because I know my shit, know what's good and what sucks, and know what works with what. Simply slapping a good elite on your bar rarely makes your build awesomesauce. Knowing a good build and especially know what skills your heroes will actually use correctly (very annoying) is how you'll get the most of heroes. Otherwise, you're better off with henchmen.

yep i dont remember ever saying that adding them was good thing, i still think the game was better before heros were added, i saw more people in outpost, good players still puged etc.




Im not sure why so many people say pugs are assholes, ive never had a pug talk shit to me. ever think it may just be u?


any way it is the internet, if you dont what to be treated like shit id disconnect from it.

its easy to tell how the game will be if they add 7heros, take how dead pugging is right now and how unsocial it is for newer and older players, and then multiply that by 2.

I still see outposts fairly active, I'm not sure what districts you're playing in. Granted, they're not *as* popular as they used to be, but see below for my explanation for that.

"Im not sure why so many people say pugs arent assholes, ive always had a pug talk shit to me. ever think it may just be u?"

Or play with heroes and henchies : P

So it's entirely the heroes' fault, right? It's most definitely not the age of the game, the mass of the game, the instancing, the lack of a wide-global party search, and the at times liability of other players, correct? /sarcasm

This is where you have the lose-lose situation when it comes to pugs. If there weren't heroes, then A. the "good" players, fed-up with pugs, quit playing, or B. the "good" players, fed-up with pugs, find a good guild and only play with guildies.

In other words, pugs are hopeless. The more you cater to them the shittier the game gets (for a good example see Ursan pre-nerf).

Then compare this amount with the amount social a guild offers !!

Why would i socialize with a pug, if i want to talk, ill talk to guildies!

I lol'ed at how true that is XD

Because many of us are playing a singleplayer Guild Wars (or were playing; D2 and DoW are much more entertaining right now). That's intended by ArenaNet as a fully acceptable playstyle, though it's been implemented very, very poorly.

Here it is again since you seem to have missed it or ignored it.



Singleplayer or multiplayer, this game is for both, the only problem is that henchmen are poorly implemented and heroes, while pretty good, are limited. No one would be harmed if 7 heroes were implemented.

Just for the record: "online" is not the same as "multiplayer". Games which use log-in servers and/or content streaming as copy protection like, say, Half Life2 or Video Poker do, are online, but not all online games are multiplayer games.
That something is "online" does not automatically mean "multiplayer".

Maybe you should venture beyond the port cities...

Also, if you remove heroes, most of the people who used them won't start using pugs, they'll just use the hench. The same thing they were probably doing before heroes were introduced.

As someone who both PUGs and uses H/H, I find that I enjoy both, and that it really depends upon two factors.

1)What's available at the time.

2)How I'm feeling at the time.

Lots of times I just feel like interacting with a group; and generally I've had good luck, and met some pretty decent people. Sure, I've also met idiots who like to sketch male genitalia on the Mission Map, and others who rage-quit at the worst possible time. But, mostly it's been fun.

But there are times when I want to take a H/H Team out because I simply don't want to deal with anyone; maybe I've had a rotten day, and just want to take out my frustrations on poor, hapless monsters.

Then, there are also the times when I'm in the mood to socialize, but there just isn't anyone around-this doesn't happen anywhere near as often as the alarmists would have us believe, btw-and I just don't want to wait two, or three hours, in the hope someone will turn up to kill monsters with me...

All that being said, I am in favor of 7 Heroes. It wouldn't stop me from PUGGING when I'm in a PUGGING mood. I'd still PUG, and have fun.

But, for those other times, when I don't feel like socializing-or for when there simply isn't anyone around to PUG with-I'd sure appreciate those Heroes then...

Really, for me it's all about having fun the way I want to have fun, at that particular point in time...

You are all ridiculous for voting yes. Don't you realize that this game was FAR better before heros existed? FAR FAR better. I bet I could make a poll and most people would agree with me, thus completely invalidating this poll.

How so?
Because you can get in a PuG easier?
That was because GW was smaller. Don't make claims without a reasonable argument

It was satire, I think.

GUMBALLS!
Didn't we end up doing UW that day?

OT:
Frenzy heroes FTW.

it would definitely give the heroes I never use a chance to get used, but it would seem that it would overpower people and spimplify areas that are suppose to be a challenge.

Make a poll asking if people would like to have ice cream... see results.

ANET MUST IMPLEMENT ICE CREAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Voted yes.

While I can see having 7 heroes having a strong impact on the 'market' (full DOA 1p/Hero clears/FoW runs/UW..etc), the system has already been put in place when heroes were initially introduced.

I do not, for any reason, see this as a PUG vs. H/H ideal, in any way, shape, or form. If you can vanquish an entire game with H/H, get masters on each and every mission, it is already your decision to either PUG it, take H/H, or rock some socks with your guild.

There are times when I'd simply like to log on, vanquish an area or two real quick, grab a quick masters I didn't already have on HM, and just not deal with people, so H/H are coming along for the ride. There are also times when the guild's busy doing other things, and either I don't feel like joining or don't have the requested profession necessary to join. At this point the H/H and I are going out to kill some stuff, or I'm going to farm a bit, or I'm going to make some money in Kamadan.

The only place I make any distinction is with PvP, but this should go without saying. If you like your heroes, and need some PvP time with them, go get some more commander points.

I hope your kidding right? even sabway takes a serious amount of skill to pull off you can't just run in and agro the world in hm mode.