A discussion on 7 heroes
Perfected Shadow
25 heroes that you can run what you want on vs. mr wammo. Decisions, decisions.
JDRyder
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Originally Posted by Bryant Again
I still see outposts fairly active, I'm not sure what districts you're playing in. Granted, they're not *as* popular as they used to be, but see below for my explanation for that.
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Originally Posted by Bryant Again
"Im not sure why so many people say pugs arent assholes, ive always had a pug talk shit to me. ever think it may just be u?"
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Originally Posted by Bryant Again
This is where you have the lose-lose situation when it comes to pugs. If there weren't heroes, then A. the "good" players, fed-up with pugs, quit playing, or B. the "good" players, fed-up with pugs, find a good guild and only play with guildies.
In other words, pugs are hopeless. The more you cater to them the shittier the game gets (for a good example see Ursan pre-nerf). |
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Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk
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Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius
Just for the record: "online" is not the same as "multiplayer". Games which use log-in servers and/or content streaming as copy protection like, say, Half Life2 or Video Poker do, are online, but not all online games are multiplayer games.
That something is "online" does not automatically mean "multiplayer". |
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Originally Posted by Hyper Cutter
Also, if you remove heroes, most of the people who used them won't start using pugs, they'll just use the hench. The same thing they were probably doing before heroes were introduced.
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Originally Posted by Inner Salbat
I hope your kidding right? even sabway takes a serious amount of skill to pull off you can't just run in and agro the world in hm mode.
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DreamWind
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Originally Posted by Kain Fz
How so?
Because you can get in a PuG easier? That was because GW was smaller. Don't make claims without a reasonable argument  |
ALF71BE
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Originally Posted by JDRyder
but is it near what it use to be, before NF?
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| yea and you can, with henchmen, but adding 7 heros is not going to help the game at all. |
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Originally Posted by DreamWind
Who needs a reasonable argument as long as most people agree with you right?
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At any case, it will slow down the rate at which people can get to certain zones of the game, eventually boring anyone who can't do it with henchies because most certainly he won't be able to do it with PuG's.
Heroes also add variety to the game; with seven, the builds are dozens and you won't get as bored as you may think for finishing eveything too soon.
Red Sonya
Now that UB is nerfed it is easy to use the reason as "it would make the players too overpowering" and Anet just nerfed that by nerfing UB so no 7 heroes now for that reason alone.
But it never said you could play with ALL heroes either now did it? It says you can play with a group of SKILLED HENCHMEN. So, you got your skilled henchmen and you got your 3 heroes and thas all you should have according to the box.
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| The game box says you can play alone. |
It says you can play with a group of SKILLED HENCHMEN. So, you got your skilled henchmen and you got your 3 heroes and thas all you should have according to the box.
DreamWind
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Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk
Because many of us are playing a singleplayer Guild Wars (or were playing; D2 and DoW are much more entertaining right now). That's intended by ArenaNet as a fully acceptable playstyle, though it's been implemented very, very poorly.
Here it is again since you seem to have missed it or ignored it. |
JDRyder
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Originally Posted by ALF71BE
It will be never be like that because the game is three years old.
Help the game? In what sense? The game box says you can play alone |
it will help cause it will make the game harder for 1 and it will get more people to pug stuff, adding 7 heros will kill the game, taking them away will get people to play together.
ya the box says you can play solo.. with henchmen.
its not like any of that matters cause just cause its on the box does not mean its better for the game.
Red Sonya
Heroes decreased the number of people available for pugging and that's a fact because everyone knows and remembers how sorry the henchies alone were in just prophecies and factions. Remember how many screamed about that first mission in Factions? lol Now it's a piece of cake to run that mission with 3 heroes. When it was just henchies even I myself would pug to get through certain areas because the henchies were just too stupid and really not powerful enough. (for me). Thus, to give every player 7 heroes would just lower those possibilities of more people to pug with even more. Oh I know there's the diehard (I will never group with anyone types), but, there's also a slew of people who would make the choice of pugging or using henchmen to get through a lot of the content because they just can't make it with henchmen alone or even 3 heroes and henchmen as it is now. I still run into some people who can't get through tough areas with just their 3 heroes and henchmen so they group up with me and my hero setups and then I grab a few other live players and we work our way through. So, you have to ignore those that are just anti-social or below grouping with others at any rate they will be that way till doomsday and they will always support any and all heroes they can get to make the game easier for them. They will use words like more fun and all, but, it's just a coverup for their real reasons of anti-socialism or the ability to keep calling others noobs or no-life's etc. You all know the types.
Darkside
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Originally Posted by Red Sonya
Heroes decreased the number of people available for pugging and that's a fact because everyone knows and remembers how sorry the henchies alone were in just prophecies and factions. Remember how many screamed about that first mission in Factions? lol Now it's a piece of cake to run that mission with 3 heroes. When it was just henchies even I myself would pug to get through certain areas because the henchies were just too stupid and really not powerful enough. (for me). Thus, to give every player 7 heroes would just lower those possibilities of more people to pug with even more. Oh I know there's the diehard (I will never group with anyone types), but, there's also a slew of people who would make the choice of pugging or using henchmen to get through a lot of the content because they just can't make it with henchmen alone or even 3 heroes and henchmen as it is now. I still run into some people who can't get through tough areas with just their 3 heroes and henchmen so they group up with me and my hero setups and then I grab a few other live players and we work our way through. So, you have to ignore those that are just anti-social or below grouping with others at any rate they will be that way till doomsday and they will always support any and all heroes they can get to make the game easier for them. They will use words like more fun and all, but, it's just a coverup for their real reasons of anti-socialism or the ability to keep calling others noobs or no-life's etc. You all know the types.
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[bad build;OQMV0SXGHaWzZrgSOsAGRCIJAETA]
and knowing that you're going to fail epically.
That build is from a warrior I met in Gate of Madness. He wanted to do Gate of Madness with that build...yah ok I don't think that he would make it past the first marg group. I told him he at least needed wild blow to end Shiro's stances and he refused to even add that skill and went on to say that nothing could hurt him because of his healing skills. Whenever I pug this is what I deal with...idiots using moronic builds that don't work and will the result in mission failure. I don't have time to waste failing missions over and over again with a bunch of morons. I've hero henched almost everything in GW and I will continue to H/H. So why not make it so I can use more hero's? It would just make things more interesting for me since I could mess with more team builds. The missions that I can't complete on my own at the moment wouldn't be any easier with 7 hero's.
Shasgaliel
That exactly the point of the discussion " Gimme 7 heroes and I will not PUG anymore".
Darkside
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Originally Posted by Shasgaliel
That exactly the point of the discussion " Gimme 7 heroes and I will not PUG anymore".
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O Nuxtofulakas
/not signed
what will be next poll?
"pls limit monster lvl to 20 cause i cannot kill em with stone daggers?"
1. pve is already too easy to win in nm or hm with all those pve only skills etc. If someone wants to solo quests/missions/anything he can easily do it with heroes or without heroes. There are tons of builds for any prof for any situation...7 heroes are not necessary at all.
2. There is more than enough grinding in the game...no need to support it more...
3. There are many hench and many heroes to choose from - learn to adapt to the needs of each quest/mission/anything and modify your team.
4. It's a good reason to learn to play different builds.
5. It's a good reason to learn (at last) what skills the hench use and not just pick em cause they are monks or eles for example...
6. It's a good reason to learn that there is no "useless" profession. Yes paragon and mesmer hench can be a better choice than a stupid w/mo...
7. It's a good reason to learn that rushing on every red dot on the map and pressing 1-2-1-2-1-2 (yes you know what i mean) is not always the best tactic...
cheers
what will be next poll?
"pls limit monster lvl to 20 cause i cannot kill em with stone daggers?"
1. pve is already too easy to win in nm or hm with all those pve only skills etc. If someone wants to solo quests/missions/anything he can easily do it with heroes or without heroes. There are tons of builds for any prof for any situation...7 heroes are not necessary at all.
2. There is more than enough grinding in the game...no need to support it more...
3. There are many hench and many heroes to choose from - learn to adapt to the needs of each quest/mission/anything and modify your team.
4. It's a good reason to learn to play different builds.
5. It's a good reason to learn (at last) what skills the hench use and not just pick em cause they are monks or eles for example...
6. It's a good reason to learn that there is no "useless" profession. Yes paragon and mesmer hench can be a better choice than a stupid w/mo...
7. It's a good reason to learn that rushing on every red dot on the map and pressing 1-2-1-2-1-2 (yes you know what i mean) is not always the best tactic...
cheers
Inner Salbat
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Originally Posted by Shasgaliel
That exactly the point of the discussion " Gimme 7 heroes and I will not PUG anymore".
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The only time when you can PuG and I use that term loosely because it's not really a PuG is when you use people from your guild, if your lucky enough to have a guild that does PvE which brings me to yet another reason I don't use that method; even if I rejuvenated my guild, even if I left my guild to one more populated I am yet to find a group of 8 players that plays when I do or how much I do.
upier
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Originally Posted by O Nuxtofulakas
/not signed
what will be next poll? "pls limit monster lvl to 20 cause i cannot kill em with stone daggers?" 1. pve is already too easy to win in nm or hm with all those pve only skills etc. If someone wants to solo quests/missions/anything he can easily do it with heroes or without heroes. There are tons of builds for any prof for any situation...7 heroes are not necessary at all. |
You are aware that most of the people here have no issues playing with hench (in terms of the difficulty) - but rather HATE the fact that the game does not allow for players to get better at it - which one achieves in a team game by making sure all builds work together?
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Originally Posted by O Nuxtofulakas
2. There is more than enough grinding in the game...no need to support it more...
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Originally Posted by O Nuxtofulakas
3. There are many hench and many heroes to choose from - learn to adapt to the needs of each quest/mission/anything and modify your team.
4. It's a good reason to learn to play different builds. 5. It's a good reason to learn (at last) what skills the hench use and not just pick em cause they are monks or eles for example... 6. It's a good reason to learn that there is no "useless" profession. Yes paragon and mesmer hench can be a better choice than a stupid w/mo... 7. It's a good reason to learn that rushing on every red dot on the map and pressing 1-2-1-2-1-2 (yes you know what i mean) is not always the best tactic... cheers |
3 necros, 2 monks, warrior(s), possibly the mesmer.
AoE weakness is good, so is Aegis chaining and so is "the wall". And contrary to some other things - heroes do these things well.
Why bother with anything else?
O Nuxtofulakas
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Originally Posted by upier
Why does everyone assume that people want heroes for the reduced difficulty?
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Originally Posted by upier
You are aware that most of the people here have no issues playing with hench (in terms of the difficulty) - but rather HATE the fact that the game does not allow for players to get better at it - which one achieves in a team game by making sure all builds work together?
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Originally Posted by upier
What grind would you add by adding full hero parties?
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Can you imagine the possibilities with a full heroes team?
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Originally Posted by upier
By allowing us to use 3 heroes only - I pretty much NEVER get to play anything else but the 3 necros. It's the 3 hero limit that is killing the diversity.
3 necros, 2 monks, warrior(s), possibly the mesmer. AoE weakness is good, so is Aegis chaining and so is "the wall". And contrary to some other things - heroes do these things well. Why bother with anything else? |
YOU don't like diversity and you use the same heroes all the time...i am sorry to say but this sounds like your problem...
GW offers many different heroes and many hench....and this is diversity for sure...
That's why i said that you have to adapt and learn using different builds or heroes or hench...you have many options and combos...asking to make everything supereasy is not the solution
Inner Salbat
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Originally Posted by O Nuxtofulakas
because it's so obvious...
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However my assumption would be that it would be harder not easier and I'm fine with that.
Aside from the fact they could test it out for a couple of months to see where 7 hero's would go to there is nothing stopping them then retracting it too 3, at any rate at some point during GW future it's going to have to happen if you like it or not, because one day the game will be mostly empty a part from a few die hards like me, who is going to group with me then for DoA considering the place is a baron landscape already, and there aren't any henchmen down there at all.
And if it doesn't they may as well turn the servers off because there won't be anyone playing at all.
Aside from the fact I'm already in the planing stages of another account and building that up so I can take a team of 6, and just disconnect when I'm in the area I want to work on on the second account you lose 1 player, but it's a work around for now.
sixofone
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Originally Posted by Inner Salbat
Aside from the fact I'm already in the planing stages of another account and building that up so I can take a team of 6, and just disconnect when I'm in the area I want to work on on the second account you lose 1 player, but it's a work around for now.
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O Nuxtofulakas
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Originally Posted by Inner Salbat
It's not obvious it's your assumption, there has never been a time when 7 hero's was available so you cannot say if it would "reduced difficulty" or "increase difficulty", people who are using 3 hero's to farm with very likely have to manually control everything they do, when you allow people to control another 4 that is way too much for the majority to control by them self, and even if you could those would be some pretty amazing skills, but I don't think we're asking for that just customizable hero's for the other 4 that operate by them self just like henchmen do.
However my assumption would be that it would be harder not easier and I'm fine with that. Aside from the fact they could test it out for a couple of months to see where 7 hero's would go to there is nothing stopping them then retracting it too 3, at any rate at some point during GW future it's going to have to happen if you like it or not, because one day the game will be mostly empty a part from a few die hards like me, who is going to group with me then for DoA considering the place is a baron landscape already, and there aren't any henchmen down there at all. And if it doesn't they may as well turn the servers off because there won't be anyone playing at all. Aside from the fact I'm already in the planing stages of another account and building that up so I can take a team of 6, and just disconnect when I'm in the area I want to work on on the second account you lose 1 player, but it's a work around for now. |
So, if you replace a hench with a hero with the appropriate build (just copy paste from wiki^^) for the situation you need him for, then you have a more effective team and you definitely win faster and easier...that's why it's obvious...and this doesn't mean that you have to micro manage all of them...the only way to make it harder is...to copy paste wrong build
Regarding the second part of your post, if the day that you cannot find noone to play with arrives...it should be better to turn off servers even faster^^
Nereyda Shoaal
Pff... ofcoz NO
That would definately kill the MMORPG idea. Only reason why you would ever need internet connection is to sell stuff in Kamadan
I would rather go and play BG/ID/NwN with far better storyline
That would definately kill the MMORPG idea. Only reason why you would ever need internet connection is to sell stuff in Kamadan
I would rather go and play BG/ID/NwN with far better storyline
pamelf
Lets look at this logically...
This is a game, what is the point of a game? To have fun! To a huge number of us PUgging is simply not fun.
Nightfall added heroes, there is absolutely nothing that can be done about that.
GWEN added more heroes; again, nothing can be done about that.
The community is split 50-50 with people who enjoy pugging, and people who choose to solo everything they can in the game.
The outposts are already almost deserted these days.
People who PUG will not be convinced that H/H is a good option and therefore will not choose it.
People who H/H will never be convinced the PUGging is a good option and therefore will not choose it.
Therefore we can conclude, that through the advent of 7 heroes should Anet ever choose to implement it we would see little demonstrable difference in the way the game is currently set up. Puggers will continue to PUG and H/Hers will continue to H/H.
Simple as that guys.
Those of us that like to H/H would like 7 heroes to tweak builds, test teams, and generally manage our own gameplay instead of having it managed for us.
Those of you who like to Pug will always do so for whatever reasons you have.
Adding 7 heroes will make a great difference to half of us, and make absolutely no difference to the others. Therefore the odds are very much leaning toward the positive side of adding the option to have a 7 hero party.
Was that easy to follow? Besides, all you naysayers (I'm looking at you JDRyder) have yet to come up with a demonstrable argument as to why this is a bad idea. You've all stated you don't want it, but the arguments you engage simply don't stand up to scrutiny.
This is a game, what is the point of a game? To have fun! To a huge number of us PUgging is simply not fun.
Nightfall added heroes, there is absolutely nothing that can be done about that.
GWEN added more heroes; again, nothing can be done about that.
The community is split 50-50 with people who enjoy pugging, and people who choose to solo everything they can in the game.
The outposts are already almost deserted these days.
People who PUG will not be convinced that H/H is a good option and therefore will not choose it.
People who H/H will never be convinced the PUGging is a good option and therefore will not choose it.
Therefore we can conclude, that through the advent of 7 heroes should Anet ever choose to implement it we would see little demonstrable difference in the way the game is currently set up. Puggers will continue to PUG and H/Hers will continue to H/H.
Simple as that guys.
Those of us that like to H/H would like 7 heroes to tweak builds, test teams, and generally manage our own gameplay instead of having it managed for us.
Those of you who like to Pug will always do so for whatever reasons you have.
Adding 7 heroes will make a great difference to half of us, and make absolutely no difference to the others. Therefore the odds are very much leaning toward the positive side of adding the option to have a 7 hero party.
Was that easy to follow? Besides, all you naysayers (I'm looking at you JDRyder) have yet to come up with a demonstrable argument as to why this is a bad idea. You've all stated you don't want it, but the arguments you engage simply don't stand up to scrutiny.
Shursh
i think people would still group together even if they allowed for 7 heroes, despite having to deal with the occasional incompetent team. But the game is an MMO, and the devs would be abandoning this concept if they allowed such a thing.
plus, like Nereida said (and many others, i'm sure), you'd never need an internet connection.
plus, like Nereida said (and many others, i'm sure), you'd never need an internet connection.
upier
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Originally Posted by O Nuxtofulakas
because it's so obvious...
...so you say that they want 7heroes teams just to test their ability to use builds that work together???? just to become "better players"..and you say this is the majority? cmon...you don't believe that... |
I'll be able to run ... what .. 4 man parties in 8-man missions? Or I need to take hench with me that don't fit the team build in any way?
Because a random party selection is a TRUE sign of doing things well in this game! Ohh and Charge! is the OMGWTFPWN!11 choice of elite for physicals!
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Originally Posted by O Nuxtofulakas
a simple example....Check the grind with all these runners/solo dungeon farmers who use 2/3 heroes.
Can you imagine the possibilities with a full heroes team? |
Ohh and loot scaling. If you run more then 2-man parties - you might as well use a full party.
Besides - how does adding more heroes add grind for you?
Personally it doesn't add grind in the slightest because well, ... I kinda won't farm.
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Originally Posted by O Nuxtofulakas
the fact that you ALWAYS use 3 necros doesn't mean that the game is doing something wrong. It's a free world and it's your decision...
YOU don't like diversity and you use the same heroes all the time...i am sorry to say but this sounds like your problem... GW offers many different heroes and many hench....and this is diversity for sure... That's why i said that you have to adapt and learn using different builds or heroes or hench...you have many options and combos...asking to make everything supereasy is not the solution |
It's totally my fault that h/h are pretty much unable to play melee or that they do not understand some of the complex mesmer skills or the fact that they don't know how to protect or the fact that they can't even spam some of the skills that were made to be spammed ...
You are right - it's my decision to limit myself to the best possible option.
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Originally Posted by O Nuxtofulakas
Hench don't use the ideal builds...i assume this is obvious
So, if you replace a hench with a hero with the appropriate build (just copy paste from wiki^^) for the situation you need him for, then you have a more effective team and you definitely win faster and easier...that's why it's obvious...and this doesn't mean that you have to micro manage all of them...the only way to make it harder is...to copy paste wrong build |
That's the reason why so many people do not PuG. And that's the reason why we'd love all-hero parties.
We KNOW we can do better.
The game doesn't get easier as a result - the players get better!
And because of that - the experience SHOULD be easier. I mean, if you get better at something - it's kinda expected that it's easier to do it because of it.
sixofone
The argument has been (so far): "7 heroes = bad for PUGs." And: "What's bad for PUGs is bad for the game." (That's where the logic fails, from what I can see.)
For those of us who don't PUG, its a non-issue.
For those of you who do PUG, it seems to be the fear that it will be even harder to get groups together, and that seems to be the major issue you have with it. Is that correct?
And if the game "was so much better before heroes were introduced", then why is it that the number of people who want 7 heroes outnumber those who don't by nearly 5:1 at this point?
For those of us who don't PUG, its a non-issue.
For those of you who do PUG, it seems to be the fear that it will be even harder to get groups together, and that seems to be the major issue you have with it. Is that correct?
And if the game "was so much better before heroes were introduced", then why is it that the number of people who want 7 heroes outnumber those who don't by nearly 5:1 at this point?
JDRyder
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Originally Posted by pamelf
Was that easy to follow? Besides, all you naysayers (I'm looking at you JDRyder) have yet to come up with a demonstrable argument as to why this is a bad idea. You've all stated you don't want it, but the arguments you engage simply don't stand up to scrutiny.
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Originally Posted by sixofone
And if the game "was so much better before heroes were introduced", then why is it that the number of people who want 7 heroes outnumber those who don't by nearly 5:1 at this point?
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The Arching Healer
82.82% actually want to kill PUGGING. If you don't/can't understand that, try a pug for yourself. Its s u c k s horse.
Shasgaliel
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Originally Posted by pamelf
Lets look at this logically...
This is a game, what is the point of a game? To have fun! To a huge number of us PUgging is simply not fun. Nightfall added heroes, there is absolutely nothing that can be done about that. GWEN added more heroes; again, nothing can be done about that. The community is split 50-50 with people who enjoy pugging, and people who choose to solo everything they can in the game. The outposts are already almost deserted these days. People who PUG will not be convinced that H/H is a good option and therefore will not choose it. People who H/H will never be convinced the PUGging is a good option and therefore will not choose it. Therefore we can conclude, that through the advent of 7 heroes should Anet ever choose to implement it we would see little demonstrable difference in the way the game is currently set up. Puggers will continue to PUG and H/Hers will continue to H/H. Simple as that guys. Those of us that like to H/H would like 7 heroes to tweak builds, test teams, and generally manage our own gameplay instead of having it managed for us. Those of you who like to Pug will always do so for whatever reasons you have. Adding 7 heroes will make a great difference to half of us, and make absolutely no difference to the others. Therefore the odds are very much leaning toward the positive side of adding the option to have a 7 hero party. Was that easy to follow? Besides, all you naysayers (I'm looking at you JDRyder) have yet to come up with a demonstrable argument as to why this is a bad idea. You've all stated you don't want it, but the arguments you engage simply don't stand up to scrutiny. |
First you and more people posting before "tend" to forget that there is also another group: people who are forced to PUG for whatever reasons. With 7 heroes this group will reduced in my opinion seriously reduced. Of course some of those will be happy as hell not to PUG anymore but... There is always a but. Those who were forced to PUG and do not have to PUG anymore will not do it and thus reduce the pugging possibility for others. Those who love to Pug were making team with the ones who liked it and the ones who need to. After that only the ones who really like to do it will be left together with those to whom even 7 heroes did not help and who are usually a nightmare for all pugging activity. You can H/H now and others can PUG now. With that update you still be able to H/H but others might not have the chance to PUG so easily anymore.
You can play this game solo (solo with H/H) and you can play it with others. With this update the second option is reduced not for you but for some other ones.
JDRyder
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Originally Posted by The Arching Healer
82.82% actually want to kill PUGGING. If you don't/can't understand that, try a pug for yourself. Its s u c k s horse.
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and why is killing pugs good for the game?
Spazzer
PUGing is what makes PvE enjoyable.
sixofone
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Originally Posted by JDRyder
cause it guru, if the poll was "Who wants to add in a skill called Hand of God that kills all NPCs on the map" and 5:1 people voted yes, does this mean its good for the game?
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Your argument has been that heroes that heroes aren't good for the game. Why? Because it hurts PUGging. Because "it makes the game too solo." And because it makes the game "too easy."
I disagree because: I don't PUG. (My few experiences with it were horrible.) I prefer to H&H because my schedule makes it easier to log in and out that way. As for "too easy", hell - you'd need to completely revamp PvE to address that issue!
Bottom line: people enjoy using Heroes. People have fun H&Hing. And people overwhelmingly want to use 7 heroes.
eximiis
I dare all teh puggers to go pug in Snake's dance, Lornar's pass, Twin serpent lakes, tangle roots, the falls, vulture's drift, maishang hills, sunqua vale, raisu palace, drazach thicket, ferndal, issnur isles, derajin estate, the mirror of lyssa, domain of fear, sacnoth valley, varajar fells, arbor bay, ETC......
Can I have FUN with these AREA with a team of 2 mesmer, 3 monk, 2 dervish and me as mesmer ????
Does playing these AREA with AIDAN, CYNN, PikACHU, and the other STUPID (empathy) HEnch make the game fun ?????
Plz you ppl that like to pug, plz !!! is the game fun ????
Can I have FUN with these AREA with a team of 2 mesmer, 3 monk, 2 dervish and me as mesmer ????
Does playing these AREA with AIDAN, CYNN, PikACHU, and the other STUPID (empathy) HEnch make the game fun ?????
Plz you ppl that like to pug, plz !!! is the game fun ????
Nessar
Wow, looking at this thread it's just seems like it's PUGs vs. Heros. I guess I'll stick my opinion in here as well.
I would like 7 heros. Why? Because I like logging on and doing whatever I want to do, however I want to do it without anyone else telling me what to do. I'm not anti-social or don't like the morons in pugs, I just like controlling my own situation. I would still pugs some missions if I felt like it or someone needed some help. There will still be areas that can't be done with 7 heros or H/H.
What's the difference between H/H & 7 heros? Yes you can change 7 hero build BUT the AI is still retarded and will stand in the searing heat -.-. Heros still don't know how to Archance Echo + SS or manage energy properly. 8 people will always own 1 player + 7 heros. At least 8 people know when it scatter from the aoe and can use builds the way the should be used.
So...7 heros may be overpowered, but 8 people > a player and 7 heros. Besides, even if you remove heros, people will still use henchmen and get things done, I know I did. Pugging is fun and all, but the ratio of morons to smart people is...big.
Also adding 7 heros would get lots of people playing again, maybe not together, but playing at least.
Dammit I keep adding on to my post, but anyway...PvE is already easy as cake, whats the big deal if it gets easier? Gogogo 4 sf nukers + 3 sabway heros <<...>>
I would like 7 heros. Why? Because I like logging on and doing whatever I want to do, however I want to do it without anyone else telling me what to do. I'm not anti-social or don't like the morons in pugs, I just like controlling my own situation. I would still pugs some missions if I felt like it or someone needed some help. There will still be areas that can't be done with 7 heros or H/H.
What's the difference between H/H & 7 heros? Yes you can change 7 hero build BUT the AI is still retarded and will stand in the searing heat -.-. Heros still don't know how to Archance Echo + SS or manage energy properly. 8 people will always own 1 player + 7 heros. At least 8 people know when it scatter from the aoe and can use builds the way the should be used.
So...7 heros may be overpowered, but 8 people > a player and 7 heros. Besides, even if you remove heros, people will still use henchmen and get things done, I know I did. Pugging is fun and all, but the ratio of morons to smart people is...big.
Also adding 7 heros would get lots of people playing again, maybe not together, but playing at least.
Dammit I keep adding on to my post, but anyway...PvE is already easy as cake, whats the big deal if it gets easier? Gogogo 4 sf nukers + 3 sabway heros <<...>>
JDRyder
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Originally Posted by sixofone
Let's stay with the issue here, dude. Ursan was the Hand of God skill, and it was overwhelmingly called to nerf it. (Well okay - Ursan wasn't as ridiculously uber as your example - but it proves my point. The guru community will call for skills to be nerfed because they are OP.)
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Originally Posted by sixofone
Your argument has been that heroes that heroes aren't good for the game. Why? Because it hurts PUGging. Because "it makes the game too solo." And because it makes the game "too easy."
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Originally Posted by sixofone
I disagree because: I don't PUG. (My few experiences with it were horrible.) I prefer to H&H because my schedule makes it easier to log in and out that way. As for "too easy", hell - you'd need to completely revamp PvE to address that issue!
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you will still have henchmen.
adding 7heros is not helping things when it comes to how easy pve is.
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Originally Posted by sixofone
Bottom line: people enjoy using Heroes. People have fun H&Hing. And people overwhelmingly want to use 7 heroes.
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people overwhelmingly liked ursan as well "maybe not on guru but in-game"
pamelf
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Originally Posted by Shasgaliel
The only thing I can agree is that the people who did not not PUG will not PUG after introduction of 7 heroes. All the rest are just your guesses.
First you and more people posting before "tend" to forget that there is also another group: people who are forced to PUG for whatever reasons. With 7 heroes this group will reduced in my opinion seriously reduced. Of course some of those will be happy as hell not to PUG anymore but... There is always a but. Those who were forced to PUG and do not have to PUG anymore will not do it and thus reduce the pugging possibility for others. Those who love to Pug were making team with the ones who liked it and the ones who need to. After that only the ones who really like to do it will be left together with those to whom even 7 heroes did not help and who are usually a nightmare for all pugging activity. You can H/H now and others can PUG now. With that update you still be able to H/H but others might not have the chance to PUG so easily anymore. You can play this game solo (solo with H/H) and you can play it with others. With this update the second option is reduced not for you but for some other ones. |
Inner Salbat
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Originally Posted by JDRyder
if the poll was "Who wants to add in a skill called Hand of God that kills all NPCs on the map" and 5:1 people voted yes, does this mean its good for the game?
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Originally Posted by Shasgaliel
First you and more people posting before "tend" to forget that there is also another group: people who are forced to PUG for whatever reasons. With 7 heroes this group will reduced in my opinion seriously reduced. Of course some of those will be happy as hell not to PUG anymore but... There is always a but. Those who were forced to PUG and do not have to PUG anymore will not do it and thus reduce the pugging possibility for others. Those who love to Pug were making team with the ones who liked it and the ones who need to. After that only the ones who really like to do it will be left together with those to whom even 7 heroes did not help and who are usually a nightmare for all pugging activity. You can H/H now and others can PUG now. With that update you still be able to H/H but others might not have the chance to PUG so easily anymore.
You can play this game solo (solo with H/H) and you can play it with others. With this update the second option is reduced not for you but for some other ones. |
1. People that H/H now will use the full hero party of 7 whom might I add must have at least NF to make this even a reality for the 2 monks.
2. People that are forced to PuG now (lord knows why) will suddenly sprout magical wings of wisdom and play like gods of the game with 7 hero's? it's purely speculative if they will or not.
I'd put forward that if they cannot handly H/H there not going to handle 7 hero's either, to add to that I highly doubt there any good at the game at all if they cannot handle H/H at least the basics should get you though, but then some people don't like paying attention to the full class rage of GW and only transfix them self in a narrow list of classes, because that might mean shock horror they might just have to learn how a mesmer works.
3. People that are happy to PuG now will be happy after the 7 hero update because nothing has changed for them, because like minded people who enjoy PuGs will be available.
It's all very easy to sit on your guild with mates and friends that you have some kind of sync with that play as much as you do, when you do, where you do, and are up to the same place you are, I can see how people would have rose tinted glasses that PuGs should be the end all of grouping.
I'm tempted to put out a 100k challenge, my only problem is enforcing the rules of the challenge; choose any chapter you like, any class you like as long as it has not vanquished any areas or done any missions in hard mode, you are not allowed to use any hero's or henchmen what so ever for any area of the chapter you choose, you are not allowed to use any guild members or friends or people you've met, every person must be added to the group from the area your in.
And lastly you've got a month to complete the entire chapter all missions, and vanquish all areas, as I said tempted because I cannot properly police it.
Shasgaliel
@ Pamelf By forced to PUG I meant those to whom PUG is the only option to finish given mission/area cause they are not able to do it with their guilds/heroes etc. Believe those people still exist. I think Gate of Madness is the place where is the biggest number of them. I will try to be more clear next time.
@Inner Salbat - 2. go through this thread and you will find more than 40 posts telling - "I want 7 heroes so I will not have to PUG with morons anymore"
3. It is not true because Pugging group will be reduced by those in the point 2 above. This is simple math.
You forgetting the most important group. Newbies. They are the ones who PUG mostly. Not the ones who have guilds since GW is on. Possible not managing to find group will just prove our point. Game is slowly getting dead and you want it to die faster.
@Inner Salbat - 2. go through this thread and you will find more than 40 posts telling - "I want 7 heroes so I will not have to PUG with morons anymore"
3. It is not true because Pugging group will be reduced by those in the point 2 above. This is simple math.
You forgetting the most important group. Newbies. They are the ones who PUG mostly. Not the ones who have guilds since GW is on. Possible not managing to find group will just prove our point. Game is slowly getting dead and you want it to die faster.
JDRyder
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Originally Posted by Inner Salbat
That not in context at all.
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Originally Posted by Shasgaliel
@ Pamelf By forced to PUG I meant those to whom PUG is the only option to finish given mission/area cause they are not able to do it with their guilds/heroes etc. Believe those people still exist. I think Gate of Madness is the place where is the biggest number of them. I will try to be more clear next time.
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pamelf
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Originally Posted by Shasgaliel
@ Pamelf By forced to PUG I meant those to whom PUG is the only option to finish given mission/area cause they are not able to do it with their guilds/heroes etc. Believe those people still exist. I think Gate of Madness is the place where is the biggest number of them. I will try to be more clear next time.
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Originally Posted by JDRyder
no you just didnt get the point, just cause a lot of people say its good on guru does not mean its good
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sixofone
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Originally Posted by JDRyder
this helps my point imo, if you were to go up to any random person in guild wars and asked them if they wanted to nerf it im sure most people would have said no, does mean it didnt need the nerf but i think you get my point. Just cause a lot of people on guru or even in the game want something does not mean its good for the game
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::shakes head::
Okay - so, just because 85% of the guru community wants 7 heroes doesn't make it good for the game. Can't say really as it is simply a matter of preference, not an objective reality.
I'm sorry, but I'm not getting the connection between "bad for PUGs = bad for the game." Especially when so many people want to play the game with more heroes and not less. If you're going to argue that people will leave the game because "it's gotten so damn hard to PUG," I think you'll find a lot of people who either won't miss it, or be happy about not PUGging anymore.
Seriously - I'm trying to understand, here. I simply haven't heard a good argument that supports your position that what hurts PUGs is bad for the game - anymore, I suppose, than you are convinced by all the people who want more heroes to play is good for the game.
In all likelihood, its because neither case is true. Adding more usable heroes is neither "bad" not "good" for the game. It's simply another option that will appeal to some and frustrate others.
And (last point) this is only in one aspect of GW - PvE. The whole world of PvP is unchanged by this at all.
Shasgaliel
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Originally Posted by pamelf
If someone is 'forced' to PUG then as you state they would still come under the category of PUGgers. That wouldn't change because they brought in 7 heroes. As the poster above me stated, if you can't handle H/H at the moment it's very unlikely you'd be able to handle 7 heroes. Thus my logic still stands. With or without the implementation of 7 heroes we will see very little difference in the way the community has divided itself.
wants. |
JDRyder
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Originally Posted by pamelf
Lets let Anet decide what's good and bad
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Originally Posted by sixofone
LOL - dude, I'm going to have to stop taking your troll bait... Here, you say that no matter how many people on guru or in the game want something doesn't make it good for the game, and then at the bottom of your post you say "people overwhelmingly liked ursan as well "maybe not on guru but in-game"
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just cause people like something does not mean it good for the game when it comes to online RPGs like guild wars is what it was saying it you missed that
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Originally Posted by sixofone
::shakes head::
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Originally Posted by sixofone
I'm sorry, but I'm not getting the connection between "bad for PUGs = bad for the game." Especially when so many people want to play the game with more heroes and not less. If you're going to argue that people will leave the game because "it's gotten so damn hard to PUG," I think you'll find a lot of people who either won't miss it, or be happy about not PUGging anymore.
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