Quote:
|
Originally Posted by JDRyder
people leave games like guild wars when they stop seeing/playing with other players.
|
everyones happy ???
A discussion on 7 heroes
eximiis
everyones happy ???
JDRyder
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by eximiis
So intrude 7 heroes, no pug can be made and puggers quit for another game.
everyones happy ??? |
Inner Salbat
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by JDRyder
meh like it or not pugs make up a big part of this game. dont think any 1 would be happy, but if that did happen maybe the people that hated the pugs for no reason would start pugging lol ...
|
Nereyda Shoaal
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by JDRyder
(...) people leave games like guild wars when they stop seeing/playing with other players.
|
I scribbled only couple words on previous page as I was busy.
Basicaly I play cRPG since middle 90's and what I was always missing is the system which we call nowadays MMORPG - being able to play RPG with other ppl in real time. With someone from the other side of the world. Or next door.
To be honest I'm fed up with this "I'm so perfect in GW, I don't want to play with n0000bs"
I DO miss times when doing one mission could take like 5 attempts. It was fun. F U N
I'm playing GW for almost 3 years now and I do love PUGs
My best PvE memories are from PUGs. Doing Hell's Precipe with 2/8. Abaddon's Gate (+masters) with 1 monk. DD 4/8. Or party of 5 monks capping SoJ in Mineral Springs with titan quest active
None of your dumb-as-hell heroes will give me any of this excitement
Any random person is better than any hero. The problem is the game is full of arrogant and lazy people who prefer to whine rather than learn someone how to agro properly (for example)
I play GW for the idea of MMORPG not 'cos it's so Goddamn perfect - best game in the world. Well it's not best game ever made, sorry to shatter your pink glasses
JDRyder
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Inner Salbat
Nope I'd quit if I was forced to PuG, no ifs no buts no maybes out right permanent abandonment of the game and any future products of ArenaNet, and would forever more have nothing good to say about ArenaNet to anyone who might be thinking of buying a there games, heck I might even go so far as to picket game software store in the hope that people would not buy any of there software either, I'd certainly not recommended there software to my friends and word of mouth is still more powerful than advertising media.
|
if your going to leave cause you are forced to play a online game with other players i dont think any 1 will care. when poeple ask "why dont you like anet" all you will have to say its "i use to play this online RPG and they removed the the solo ability from the game the game so I had to play with other players so i left" leaving a game like guild war for that reason is retarded
Inner Salbat
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by JDRyder
bye
if your going to leave cause you are forced to play a online game with other players i dont think any 1 will care. when poeple ask "why dont you like anet" all you will have to say its "i use to play this online RPG and they removed the the solo ability from the game the game so I had to play with other players so i left" leaving a game like guild war for that reason is retarded |
JDRyder
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Inner Salbat
Too bad I could point to the false advertising of solo playing being on the box :P
|
eximiis
Henchmen !!
that was the advertising for Prophetie. now we have faction with better hench, then nightfall with HEROES, then Eoth with more heroes and (super ?) hench.
Now it's time for 7 heores !!!!
that was the advertising for Prophetie. now we have faction with better hench, then nightfall with HEROES, then Eoth with more heroes and (super ?) hench.
Now it's time for 7 heores !!!!
R.Shayne
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by JDRyder
with henchmen
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by JDRyder
nope, guild/pug imo
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by JDRyder
cause it will kill pugging even more, at least you still have pugs in places like ToA and EoTN, if you were able to have 7heros they would die out in no time. This game has become to solo already theres no need for make it more solo
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by JDRyder
cause it guru, if the poll was "Who wants to add in a skill called Hand of God that kills all NPCs on the map" and 5:1 people voted yes, does this mean its good for the game?
|
As stated before, PUG are dead and PuG are what killed them. When players refuse to learn and continued to play at a level that is below Henchmen level they killed it. Hero did not kill it, poor players killed it.
JDRyder
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by R.Shayne
If you follow through with this then Henchmen should be able to go in Elite areas but not possible.
|
Bryant Again
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by JDRyder
but is it near what it use to be, before NF?
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by JDRyder
are you saying im a nice guy?
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by JDRyder
If people leave cause they have to play with pugs why didnt so many people leave before heros?
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by JDRyder
yea and you can, with henchmen, but adding 7 heros is not going to help the game at all.
|
All in all, while none of us are in any position to say how easy Guild Wars is, I think it's safe to say that the majority of the players in Guild Wars aren't very good at the game. Because of that, most won't find heroes too appealing.
All in all, we have no idea what will "truly happen" if 7 heroes became released. Seeing as people already find 3 heroes a bit overwhelming and all of what I've said above, I highly doubt they'd be all over a full party of builds they themselves have to put together (not to mention all the skills they'd have to unlock).
eximiis
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by JDRyder
meh like it or not pugs make up a big part of this game. dont think any 1 would be happy, but if that did happen maybe the people that hated the pugs for no reason would start pugging lol ...
|
imo, 50% goes solo, 45% goes Guild/friends (with a % that solo wehn they find nobody in the guild) and a little 5% that pugs in SPECIFIC area. 50% of the 5% runs with mending or meleemancer !
DreamWind
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Bryant Again
They had no other way to enjoy the game. Now, everyone's happy. Pugs pug, soloer's solo. Welcome to Guild Wars.
|
Its almost like the whole idea with putting heros into Hero's Ascent. Good idea in theory and it was used a lot, but it was a bad idea in practice.
Personally I could give a crap less about this entire debate. Give us 50 heros all with Ursan for all I care...that would make tons of people happy. I just think some of the reasons given for allowing max heros are bad.
Bryant Again
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by eximiis
pug make up a big part of this game yet its already impossible to form a pug in 80% of the area of the game !!
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by DreamWind
Not neccessarily. There are probably a lot of people who want to play with others but can't because everybody is playing with heros instead.
Its almost like the whole idea with putting heros into Hero's Ascent. Good idea in theory and it was used a lot, but it was a bad idea in practice. Personally I could give a crap less about this entire debate. Give us 50 heros all with Ursan for all I care...that would make tons of people happy. I just think some of the reasons given for allowing max heros are bad. |
Agree whole heartedly for a lot of the reasoning you see here, though. You don't need 7 heroes to beat the game and the hardest areas, you need 7 heroes if you *want* to have a more personalized party. Hence, it's not a need and instead a want.
also: poo on you >: ( you just *had* to post a sec before me. Now not only do I have to make a huge edit with another quote I lose a valuable +1 :_ (
JDRyder
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Bryant Again
No. I'm saying experiences vary. Just because you yourself have had an easy time with pugs cannot be applied to everyone's experience.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Bryant Again
Based on the facts of PvE skills, that the PvE skills all got buffed, that heroes *cannot* use PvE skills, that Heroes have unreliable and unpredictable AI, that you have to have quite a lot of experience to set up hero builds, that you have to work a lot with flagging and other behavior - I know longer believe that 7 heroes will be detrimental to the game. 3 heroes + henchmen are already greatly usuable, and a lot of people aren't even doing *that*.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by eximiis
imo, 50% goes solo, 45% goes Guild/friends (with a % that solo wehn they find nobody in the guild) and a little 5% that pugs in SPECIFIC area. 50% of the 5% runs with mending or meleemancer !
|
kilkelo
I say yes. GW is dying and it's getting harder by the day to find people to group with you in elite areas so having a full team of heroes would allow players to play in any area they wish. Otherwise they'll get bored of the game and leave.
Bryant Again
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by JDRyder
agreed
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by JDRyder
not 100% sure on what your saying here but, I dont think heros not being able to use pve skills is a big deal, I only use 2 Pve skills that i can think of off the top of my head, [cry of pain]["Save Yourselves!"]
|
That said, not being able to be in a team with some of the most overpowered skills in the game is not a "big deal"? Aight? Even if I did agree with you on that part, that's still just a portion of many turn offs of using heroes.
JDRyder
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Bryant Again
Good, so, please stop.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Bryant Again
And if you pugged, you could have 8 times that many.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Bryant Again
That said, not being able to be in a team with some of the most overpowered skills in the game is not a "big deal"? Aight? Even if I did agree with you on that part, that's still just a portion of many turn offs of using heroes.
|
Phaern Majes
Wow this thread is seriously about to have a birthday...
I tend to agree that 7 heroes won't do anything that a team of 7 people couldn't do. But in all honesty why not just find 1 person and take 6 heroes... seems to be the better compromise.
I tend to agree that 7 heroes won't do anything that a team of 7 people couldn't do. But in all honesty why not just find 1 person and take 6 heroes... seems to be the better compromise.
Bryant Again
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by JDRyder
i think we know why pugs are dicks to u now
|
Either way, if people can't stand me for being right then I guess I can't really help that.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by JDRyder
i lol'ed irl
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by JDRyder
not really, when i H/H i dont use any pve skills most the time. some times ill sure the DS/SY builds when i war but i only use that when i do 4man areas and only i only use CoP in CoP groups with my guild or when i play mesmer. Most of the pve skills are laughable when compared to non-pve only skills.
|
Either way, 8 builds with PvE skills > 8 builds without.
eximiis
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Phaern Majes
I tend to agree that 7 heroes won't do anything that a team of 7 people couldn't do. But in all honesty why not just find 1 person and take 6 heroes... seems to be the better compromise.
|
while playing the game i like to go alone with build i want no the build that others bring.
as for the talking, i can still talk with friend while killing things "alone"
JDRyder
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Bryant Again
Imbagons, Cryway, D-slash SY/BH warriors, etc. must all be terrabad then. With heroes, depending on profession, you can only use one of those builds.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Bryant Again
Either way, 8 builds with PvE skills > 8 builds without.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by eximiis
Simply because some ppl want to go "solo" not with 1 person.
while playing the game i like to go alone with build i want no the build that others bring. as for the talking, i can still talk with friend while killing things "alone" |
xfire
there now u can play any game you want a talk to your friends as you play
beanerman_99
I tend to support the 7 hero idea.
I think GW will see a decline in player population when GW2 arrives. It would nice to see this implemented when this happens. Plus it would give me a reason to use those heroes that I don't ever use...ie: the ritual hero, assasin hero, paragon hero, mesmer heroes...
Also, I would be able to use heroes to try and do Urgoz, The Deep, and Underworld by myself..
I think GW will see a decline in player population when GW2 arrives. It would nice to see this implemented when this happens. Plus it would give me a reason to use those heroes that I don't ever use...ie: the ritual hero, assasin hero, paragon hero, mesmer heroes...
Also, I would be able to use heroes to try and do Urgoz, The Deep, and Underworld by myself..
Bryant Again
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by JDRyder
you only need more then 1 imbagon anyway, as for cryway, imo heros will mess it up with the IA they have now cause they will just try to interrupt things, it'd be more micro then its worth. As for all the other pve skills they are not really holding you back that much by not being used seeing how so many people are talking about how easy pve is with heros, and it is i had NP doing EoTN with H/H.
|
The reason the PvE skills aren't "holding me back much" is because I don't suck at the game. PvE skills are small little bridges that make up for the lack of skill of inexperienced players.
But again, as I said earlier, we're not in much of a position to say what's easy or not. From my point of view I find HM RoT easy, hence the previous sentence.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by JDRyder
disagreed
|
The least you could do is support your points, otherwise you just encourage everyone to up their post count, i.e. pointlessly lengthening the thread.
JDRyder
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Bryant Again
What? Cry of Pain on heroes? "Instant Attack" of heroes? You do know heroes can't use PvE skills, right? Anyways...
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Bryant Again
I am compelled by your reasoning.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Bryant Again
The least you could do is support your points, otherwise you just encourage everyone to up their post count, i.e. pointlessly lengthening the thread.
|
Bryant Again
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by JDRyder
yes i know but im saying if they were able.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by JDRyder
cause in the end they are just skills and some builds work better w/o pve skills in the same way a hammer build is better w/o axe skills
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by JDRyder
no1 is making u post if you dont like it go away.
|
tmr819
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by beanerman_99
I tend to support the 7 hero idea.
I think GW will see a decline in player population when GW2 arrives. It would nice to see this implemented when this happens. Plus it would give me a reason to use those heroes that I don't ever use...ie: the ritual hero, assasin hero, paragon hero, mesmer heroes... Also, I would be able to use heroes to try and do Urgoz, The Deep, and Underworld by myself.. |
Well, anyway. I think those, like beanerman quoted above, who think that GW1 could, conceivably, move to a 7-hero format once GW2 is released probably have the right of it. GW1 could then, fully and completely, evolve into a near-perfect "single-player, party-based RPG with a multiplayer option" which, for my money, makes for a pretty good game. This is how I have always viewed GW anyway; 7 heroes would simply sweeten the deal for me from a fun and creativity standpoint.
Oh, and JDRyder, on the suggestion that Mass Effect is a Guild Wars-like single-player RPG, I appreciate that and am looking into it. The only single-player, party-based RPGs I have tried that even remotely resemble Guild Wars (e.g., Dungeon Siege, etc.) are pretty dated nowadays and simply cannot compare to GW in quality and content.
It would be nice if ANet would "sublet" the GW1 franchise so that additional campaigns or minicampaigns could be developed and sold a la carte (as with the Bonus Mission Pack). I think there would be a sizeable market for such a product, frankly. At least I know I would prefer another GW campaign to what I have heard, thus far, of GW2.
JDRyder
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Bryant Again
Okay. Why? I don't think there was ever a point where I asked "hay what if we gav heros pve skillz?".
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Bryant Again
Imbagons, Cryway, D-slash SY/BH warriors, etc. must all be terrabad then. With heroes, depending on profession, you can only use one of those builds.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Bryant Again
PvE skills =/= skills skills. They're labeled PvE for a reason because they're more imbalanced because they're more powerful than your average skill.
|
Bryant Again
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by JDRyder
the point was even if they were able it not going ot change much
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by JDRyder
1/2 way agree, they are also labeled pve skills to make the titles useful imo. 99% of them id never use in pvp cuz they suck.
|
Inner Salbat
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by R.Shayne
The only thing I ever see in ToA is FARMING PUGS and guess what, these will never be replaced with h/h group because Heroes can't do it.
|
DoA on the other hand you would be correct that isn't H/H because there are no henchmen.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Phaern Majes
Wow this thread is seriously about to have a birthday...
I tend to agree that 7 heroes won't do anything that a team of 7 people couldn't do. But in all honesty why not just find 1 person and take 6 heroes... seems to be the better compromise. |
Now as I said before if you cannot handle h/h your not going to handle 7 hero's additionally if you cannot handle PuGs & or h/h you probably can't gear 3 hero's properly to do a 2^6 heros either, it's not about failure either is about knowing how to play the game properly, any game once you become an expert at it will be as easy as pie.
A year ago I tried hard mode and swore black and blue that I did not want to see it again in my entire life, well guess what? I now have legendary vanquisher, I would have had legendary guardian by now "if" I wasn't forced to break up my party and add hero's I don't actually want in my party for NF, but with 7 hero's I would not have minded so much, the game didn't get easier I got better at it and yes some hard mode areas are easier than I expected.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Bryant Again
Wow. No. That would change *everything*. Allow heroes to use PvE skills and *now* you've got something overpowered.
|
JDRyder
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Bryant Again
Wow. No. That would change *everything*. Allow heroes to use PvE skills and *now* you've got something overpowered.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Bryant Again
Now *I* lol'd irl. Seriously? An overwhelming majority of them aren't tied to profession, meaning anyone can use them, causing every class to lose their identity and purpose - and when that happens, you *know* that something is overpowered.
|
Inner Salbat
Just a thought what is the point in having so many hero's when you only ever see 3 at a time?
sixofone
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Inner Salbat
Just a thought what is the point in having so many hero's when you only ever see 3 at a time?
|
Inner Salbat
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by sixofone
Same reason you have so many weapon skins: purely for the aesthetics of it. Well, and you can build with 3 warriors, or 3 necros, or multiples of whatever on your team. But, since you can change a hero's build at any time, and safely change out their runes& whatnot, unless you're running with 2-3 warriors, you really only needed 1 - but, Koss is kind of ugly (imho), and I'm much happier running warrior builds on Jora!
|
sixofone
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Inner Salbat
Fare enough however beyond today I will never see MoX again not because I don't want to use him, but because there is no free space to use him.
|
::shrugs::
R.Shayne
26 Hero and you have to pick 3, M.O.X. means nothing to me, but the quest was pretty neat, nice story, with a nice progressive harder quest.
Still can't believe people blame heroes as the reason players don't want to pug.
Still can't believe people blame heroes as the reason players don't want to pug.
Numa Pompilius
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by JDRyder
only thing that people may change is taking a P/W for SY. the other skill are not as appealing
|
8x Lightbringers Gaze? 8x Cry of Frustration? 8x Vanguard Assassin? Pain Inverter? Dragon Slash warrior with Headbutt? Great Dwarven Weapon?
tmr819
I sometimes wonder what would happen if ANet offered a "7 Heroes" feature as a purchase option the way they currently offer extra character slots.
Additional revenue, for virtually no labor investment (assuming the four additional heroes simply function the way the henches do now), might be something they'd consider.
Additional revenue, for virtually no labor investment (assuming the four additional heroes simply function the way the henches do now), might be something they'd consider.
Alexandria
I can't think of any drawbacks if this would be implemented. Sure, it would mean getting through the campaigns would be a breeze, but hey, that's already possible. 1 word, Ursan.
Does anyone why Anet decided to lower the limit on heroes in HA back in the day btw? It went from 4 to 2 and I really can't think of a reason for it, heroes are worse players than normal players (sometimes ^^).
I'd love to see a 7-hero HA team.
Does anyone why Anet decided to lower the limit on heroes in HA back in the day btw? It went from 4 to 2 and I really can't think of a reason for it, heroes are worse players than normal players (sometimes ^^).
I'd love to see a 7-hero HA team.
Inner Salbat
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by R.Shayne
26 Hero and you have to pick 3, M.O.X. means nothing to me, but the quest was pretty neat, nice story, with a nice progressive harder quest.
Still can't believe people blame heroes as the reason players don't want to pug. |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by tmr819
I sometimes wonder what would happen if ANet offered a "7 Heroes" feature as a purchase option the way they currently offer extra character slots.
Additional revenue, for virtually no labor investment (assuming the four additional heroes simply function the way the henches do now), might be something they'd consider. |
Because "The Complete Collection" isn't going to bring the skip loads of money that's for sure.