A discussion on 7 heroes - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Avarre

Bubblegum Patrol

Join Date: Dec 2005

Singapore Armed Forces

08 Sep 2008 at 10:46 - 1405

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

but the skill in GW PvP is mainly the skill of making builds, not the skill in using them.

I do not think you know what you are talking about.

There's a reason why good guilds continue to perform at high standards.
There's a reason why scrubs who copy builds never get anywhere.

Gimmicks might take people by surprise, but it's the players that know how to run the builds they use that actually win. Those that win might pull out gimmicks, but the vast majority of their success isn't going to be from buildwars'ing people out.

Limu Tolkki

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Dec 2006

Hate The [Cape]

E/

08 Sep 2008 at 10:49 - 1406

Would have been cool when doing HM stuff etc. Atm i dont find this necessary tho i dont say it would be bad. It's basically same than 2ppl and 6 heros, anyone finds that imba? But putting ppl to play with 4 nubcake henches fails. Especially now when we have a lot heros to choose but can only use 3 of them.

rexalex

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2007

Hungary

Hungarian Seniors [HUNs]

N/Mo

08 Sep 2008 at 12:51 - 1407

I dont like to ruin other players' fun so i dont vanquish at all...
I tried but its bad if after an hour i have to leave (reasons many... wife for example..

)
With henchies it doesnt work well.
My only chance is 7heroes....

Inner Salbat

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Oct 2005

Leader - ANZAC

E/

08 Sep 2008 at 13:08 - 1408

Quote:

Originally Posted by rexalex

I dont like to ruin other players' fun so i dont vanquish at all...
I tried but its bad if after an hour i have to leave (reasons many... wife for example..

)
With henchies it doesnt work well.
My only chance is 7heroes....

It does work you've got to be determined and realize when certain consumable items are going to be needed to over power the insanity that exists while vanquishing, however you run into problems when you can't change there build to be more effective, basically running out of skill slots for your party.

Still doable but it's not nearly as fun as the idea of gearing your entire party of 7 heros to do it.

I've had to buy consumable items quite often, often enough to program a script to buy the materials while I do something else, "AutoHotKey" ftw.

Damian979

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2008

08 Sep 2008 at 13:09 - 1409

We all know you can't stand for someone else to get the last word so I'll keep this short. That way you can get right to your snappy reply to let you feel like you "wun teh argumenz".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

A competetive game should never, never rely on the builds used. It should rely on the skill levels of players and not build vs. build,

[mending][frenzy][healing signet] and starter weapons for everyone then. Now that's balance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

I have absolutely nothing left to say to you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

C-spacing for victory in all cases is not exciting play, champ.

No that's actually called noob play. Don't see where c-spacing was actually anywhere in my post though champ.

R.Shayne

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2007

08 Sep 2008 at 13:20 - 1410

In the hopes of getting a celestial compass I joined a UW pug to see if it was faster then going by myself with six heroes.

I guess it was faster, got to the sixth quest and people started leaving. There was no reason to leave, we were doing ok, not a record breaking time, but what I would consider average time (and yes the one W/Mo was running a wammo build).

Saying we want seven heroes because we don't pug is a failed argument. We want seven heroes because we have tried pugs. I have resigned myself to doing stuff only with guild members or with six heroes (an option I have that many do not) because I am tired of pugs that only waste my gaming time which is limited by real life.

Inner Salbat

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Oct 2005

Leader - ANZAC

E/

08 Sep 2008 at 13:28 - 1411

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damian979

[mending][frenzy][healing signet] and starter weapons for everyone then. Now that's balance.

Nope people could put more attribute points in one or the other and it would be an imbalance

~ sarcasm aside ~

True balance is a collection of skills that can combat each other in different ways yet still though skill allows the team with the most skill at using what they have to win in the end but.. regardless of the losing team losing they still had a chance to win this is not the case with Guild Wars.

Skill in Guild Wars is highly speculative anyway because it's an internet game and your subject to ping times which means the out come could likely be entire not based on skill but because one team has more players with better ping times to the server.

Avarre

Bubblegum Patrol

Join Date: Dec 2005

Singapore Armed Forces

08 Sep 2008 at 13:59 - 1412

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damian979

No that's actually called noob play. Don't see where c-spacing was actually anywhere in my post though champ.

It's implied. You don't really need to do anything else in order to win, not with the quality of skills available. Go afk or bash random keys with flagged H/H? Still works most of the time.

We disagree on the idea of boring gameplay - to me, being able to autowin is boring gameplay, while having some level of balanced skills at least adds a degree of thought. Yeah, you can remove or not run the ridiculous skills, but in that case, why bother having them? Some of them are practically on the level of developer-promoted cheat codes.

At this rate, balance is nearly impossible anyways, there are just too many skills and professions and mechanics. It is possible to get very close to balanced, to a degree that player adaptation can make up for any slight issues, but for that the game would need to be more manageable in size.

Inner Salbat

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Oct 2005

Leader - ANZAC

E/

08 Sep 2008 at 14:13 - 1413

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

It's implied. You don't really need to do anything else in order to win, not with the quality of skills available. Go afk or bash random keys with flagged H/H? Still works most of the time.

That maybe entirely dependent on what class you are playing, as a monk? you have zero chance to afk, you have to be on your game 80% of the time any lapse of judgment or distraction and it's back to the resurrection shrine for you, and god forbid that you happen to spawn at the shrine the enemy happens to be camping because you made an error in judgment call when pulling the mob in the first place, that has happen on rare moments from time to time, the last time was in Bjora Marches with the Stone Summit, 1 bad pull that was it over done with back to the outpost.

Avarre

Bubblegum Patrol

Join Date: Dec 2005

Singapore Armed Forces

08 Sep 2008 at 14:16 - 1414

As a monk in PvE you have to mash healing skills and make red bars go up. It's not exactly high-skill play. Some monks are better and understand concepts like preprotting and spotting targets, but the necessity for it really isn't there, which is a shame.

Kenagalaz

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2006

Servite Nostrum Animus [SNA]

E/Me

08 Sep 2008 at 14:24 - 1415

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inner Salbat

That maybe entirely dependent on what class you are playing, as a monk? you have zero chance to afk, you have to be on your game 80% of the time any lapse of judgment or distraction and it's back to the resurrection shrine for you, and god forbid that you happen to spawn at the shrine the enemy happens to be camping because you made an error in judgment call when pulling the mob in the first place, that has happen on rare moments from time to time, the last time was in Bjora Marches with the Stone Summit, 1 bad pull that was it over done with back to the outpost.

that's not entirely true, I beat all of GWEN and Hell's precipice on monk, while playing Armored Core: Last Raven and Disgaea1 again. 3 n/Rt heroes (sosuke until i got livia), mhenlo, earth hench, 2 w hench. just click on a new mob every couple of minutes and go back to playing the other games.

Inner Salbat

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Oct 2005

Leader - ANZAC

E/

08 Sep 2008 at 14:25 - 1416

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

As a monk in PvE you have to mash healing skills and make red bars go up. It's not exactly high-skill play. Some monks are better and understand concepts like preprotting and spotting targets, but the necessity for it really isn't there, which is a shame.

Um no there is more too it than that -way- more, if you don't put a PS on the right person at the right time and for the right reason you lose someone, if you don't Aegis at the right time your entire party combating some enemies will be dead in under 30 seconds, you need the reflexes of a ninja and the brains of Chuck Norris.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenagalaz

that's not entirely true, I beat all of GWEN and Hell's precipice on monk, while playing Armored Core: Last Raven and Disgaea1 again. 3 n/Rt heroes (sosuke until i got livia), mhenlo, earth hench, 2 w hench. just click on a new mob every couple of minutes and go back to playing the other games.

Try that in hard mode and start vanquishing areas, I dares you.

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

08 Sep 2008 at 15:17 - 1417

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inner Salbat

If the argument is that 7 heros would over power PvP then the solution is simple they shouldn't be in PvP in the first place or they should rename it too, PvPvE.

What? I'm for 7 heroes in PvE, and against the use of heroes in PvP except for HB.

@Damian: Because you're so fun to toy with, I guess I'll still reply to your posts made completely of stupidity and I find it highly amusing.

Frenzy Healsig Mending wouldn't be balance, that would be retardation because none of the requirements for winning are being met at all.

Allowing these gimmicks which take no skill to use because they don't reward skillful play to roam free does turn the game into a C-Space fest.

An example of skillful play is how said player uses Frenzy. It's a great skill that rewards skillful play and doesn't reward sloppy play at all. Bull's Strike and Distracting Shot are others. Incredibly powerful skills, but they do next to nothing if you don't get the goal and they have been wasted for 10 seconds.

JDRyder

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2007

Great temple of Balthazar

Mo/Me

08 Sep 2008 at 16:32 - 1418

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inner Salbat

That maybe entirely dependent on what class you are playing, as a monk? you have zero chance to afk,

why are you going afk any way? are you going to go afk on other profs?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inner Salbat

you have to be on your game 80% of the time any lapse of judgment or distraction and it's back to the resurrection shrine for you,

if missing 1 prot means your team is going to die, you missed more than 1.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inner Salbat

and god forbid that you happen to spawn at the shrine the enemy happens to be camping because you made an error in judgment call when pulling the mob in the first place,

that has nothing to do with the monk that has to do with being a noob and fighting next to it in the 1st place.

Venom200

Academy Page

Join Date: Mar 2006

Science with a Twist

N/

08 Sep 2008 at 16:40 - 1419

It has been said several time but I'm just going to say it again.

Henchie builds just don't cut it.

Kenagalaz

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2006

Servite Nostrum Animus [SNA]

E/Me

08 Sep 2008 at 17:22 - 1420

as far as the afking as a monk thing, it still works in HM in many places, you just have to be more careful not to pull more than one mob at a time and allow adequate additional afk time to allow energy recharge. with flagging and a bow, it's not that bad. (where as in NM you could pull 3 mobs at a time with no consequence). but most importantly afking NM gets you to outposts and gets you to armor crafters, elite skills, quest items and end game items, while afking HM doesn't really have any reasonable rewards that warrants even afking. (who really cares about farming titles, when life's full of other more fun things.)

Inner Salbat

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Oct 2005

Leader - ANZAC

E/

08 Sep 2008 at 17:56 - 1421

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenagalaz

I don't think it's necessarily lack of knowledge, but a linguistic technique used to point out your unrealistic assumptions and stereotyping and lack of solid logical arguments.

as far as the afking as a monk thing, it still works in HM in many places, you just have to be more careful not to pull more than one mob at a time and allow adequate additional afk time to allow energy recharge. with flagging and a bow, it's not that bad. (where as in NM you could pull 3 mobs at a time with no consequence). but most importantly afking NM gets you to outposts and gets you to armor crafters, elite skills, quest items and end game items, while afking HM doesn't really have any reasonable rewards that warrants even afking. (who really cares about farming titles, when life's full of other more fun things.)

I can't decided if you lying, using some sort of bot or blasting away huge amounts of gold consumable items, after vanquishing every area in the game but 3 I'd be dead if I tried that kind of stupidity.

Kenagalaz

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2006

Servite Nostrum Animus [SNA]

E/Me

08 Sep 2008 at 18:33 - 1422

well, i haven't done much vanquishing (like 10 mostly from faction&proph), most of the HM i've done have been in mission. and it certainly isn't one build to rule it all, some places i spec more aoe healing, some places more hex removal, etc. It's hard to deny though, esp in proph and factions, how much easier it is to plow through (or in my case afk, leaving 7 AI fighting) in earlier chapters.

a really good experienced guild group in urgoz took about 3hrs at the end of factions, now, it takes a little over 30 min.

there are pictures of people beating missions equipt with an empty skill bar and 7 henchman or 4 henchman and 3 heroes, some in HM, though majority in NM. I can't remember how this conversation started and how it ties into 7 heroes or not, but it's always been faster (and less restarts) for me to just take heroes than PUGs, and have noticed that it gets significantly easier with each new release (more overpowered skills)

Amy Awien

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

R/

08 Sep 2008 at 18:51 - 1423

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

+ no matter what if you play with other players you learn more.

I doubt that, heroes forced me to come up with decent bars for most of the professions and thought me more about builds then playing in PuGs would have.

And tactically ... PuGs still don't stick to the plan.

Quote:

most the people that avoid pugs are bad themselves, but just dont know it cause they have not seen how far the skill curve goes

I must be bad, and if I don't know it, at least I'm inclined to believe there's plenty of skill-curve beyond what I've learned.

What do you suggest to increase the participation in The PuG Experience?

Making the alternative H/H less attractive, by adjusting the availability of heroes, is not likely to bring players into PuGs, less heroes will just mean this big group of mediocre players is either going to use more henchmen, or drive them away from the game.

What do you suggest to improve The PuG Experience?

Do you, - we, all of us - join them to help them get along? Shall we team up as the Adventurers of Ascalon and guide the newer players? It might help, a good start for new players makes them happy, happy players make their friends buy copies, more players means more playing

JDRyder

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2007

Great temple of Balthazar

Mo/Me

08 Sep 2008 at 20:43 - 1424

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

What do you suggest to increase the participation in The PuG Experience?

Making the alternative H/H less attractive, by adjusting the availability of heroes, is not likely to bring players into PuGs, less heroes will just mean this big group of mediocre players is either going to use more henchmen, or drive them away from the game.

Then i ask why are they playing GW if they dont want to play with other players? I dont think any1 looked at the GW box and saw "play alone" and thats what made you buy the game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

What do you suggest to improve The PuG Experience?

Do you, - we, all of us - join them to help them get along? Shall we team up as the Adventurers of Ascalon and guide the newer players? It might help, a good start for new players makes them happy, happy players make their friends buy copies, more players means more playing

many times ive stopped w/e i was doing to help some random guy do a mission, sometimes 1/2 - 3/4 of the campaign and then sending them to guru after :P.

more people pugging helps.

more people using heros does not.

Sleeper Service

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Dec 2005

CULT

08 Sep 2008 at 21:21 - 1425

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

Then i ask why are they playing GW if they dont want to play with other players? I dont think any1 looked at the GW box and saw "play alone" and thats what made you buy the game.

many times ive stopped w/e i was doing to help some random guy do a mission, sometimes 1/2 - 3/4 of the campaign and then sending them to guru after :P.

more people pugging helps.

more people using heros does not.

actually having the OPTION to play alone (properly) is a big big part of the reason i bought this game.

and yes thats written on the box.

eximiis

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Oct 2007

08 Sep 2008 at 21:27 - 1426

Yes i help some ppl in mission/quest

And yes i could use 7 heroes. Why having 7 heroes would make me stop pugging ?? i'd still help ppl but when going solo, i'd like to have 7 heroes testing things, killing random things with having Aidan Shoting 2 ignited arrows !! or having Danika standing there wanding with her staff thinking wow i must do alot of damage with that staff !! or having brutus using vamp gaze ........

we should ahve the choice. and still pug !

Martin Firestorm

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2005

Louisiana

E/Me

08 Sep 2008 at 21:51 - 1427

At this point in GW's life cycle, PUGs have become a complete failure. They were ok when we were all new to the game, but decent players mostly avoid them now so the chance of ending up with too many poor players to permit success are very high. Its just gotten too frustrating. But I don't see 7 heroes happening ever.

So I suggest making do as best you can--go to wiki and learn the hench skill bars for the various campaigns. Not just their elites, but the whole bars. And note that the same hench can have different bars in different campaigns, or even within the same one. Then try to build some synergy into your H/H group by taking the hench skills into consideration. Its not the total party build you'd prefer to make, but is far more effective than just adding henches based on little more than their professions. Its really a pretty fun challenge.

Kashrlyyk

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

08 Sep 2008 at 22:45 - 1428

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleeper Service

actually having the OPTION to play alone (properly) is a big big part of the reason i bought this game.

and yes thats written on the box.

QFT, I would have never tried GW without that.

JDRyder

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2007

Great temple of Balthazar

Mo/Me

08 Sep 2008 at 23:46 - 1429

Quote:

Originally Posted by eximiis

Why having 7 heroes would make me stop pugging ??'

may not "stop it" but it will hurt it more for sure. Before heros it was pugs or henchmen, both were bad "by today's standers" in skill level and the IA for henchmen was not as good as it was now, so more people pugged. If your trying to avoid pugs cause you get frustrated, why? its pve, and a game, you'll get over it. If you stop only looking at why pugs are bad you'd find out it may be more fun then you think and better for the game overall.

Inner Salbat

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Oct 2005

Leader - ANZAC

E/

09 Sep 2008 at 02:13 - 1430

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenagalaz

well, i haven't done much vanquishing (like 10 mostly from faction&proph), most of the HM i've done have been in mission. and it certainly isn't one build to rule it all, some places i spec more aoe healing, some places more hex removal, etc. It's hard to deny though, esp in proph and factions, how much easier it is to plow through (or in my case afk, leaving 7 AI fighting) in earlier chapters.

Alright that at least looks half honest considering you've not completed the entire lot you don't have the over all picture yet, there are enemies that I can see being able to afk them because there easy, but they are there for different purpose there easy because they are a source of DP removal from some of the harder enemies to combat, the trouble is if you clear out all the easy stuff and then bump into <insert over powered boss/group here> then your chances of losing are greater.

Prophecies - Apart from Rotscale was fairly okay the learning curve was harder because I'd not done much hard mode missions / areas.
Factions - The stuff I learned in Prophecies oddly didn't help much and for me was the hardest of them all to complete.
Nightfall - Vanquished but missions incomplete due to the fact I refuse to break up my synergy and be forced to put hero's in my party I don't want because I'm limited to 3, vanquishing was on par with Factions in some areas even harder.
EoTN - 3 areas to go, and I've used 1 consumable set and 1 power stone so far.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Firestorm

At this point in GW's life cycle, PUGs have become a complete failure. They were ok when we were all new to the game, but decent players mostly avoid them now so the chance of ending up with too many poor players to permit success are very high. Its just gotten too frustrating. But I don't see 7 heroes happening ever.

That's rather a defeatist attitude any company that ignores it's community when it is over overwhelmingly obvious that the community is in favor of something as shown by the poll, would be morons to ignore it.

further more I've been thinking of ways to draw there attention to it maybe stage a sit in L.A or something.

Shasgaliel

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2008

[bomb]

09 Sep 2008 at 09:31 - 1431

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inner Salbat

That's rather a defeatist attitude any company that ignores it's community when it is over overwhelmingly obvious that the community is in favor of something as shown by the poll, would be morons to ignore it.

further more I've been thinking of ways to draw there attention to it maybe stage a sit in L.A or something.

500 out of 0.5k users in your opinion are enough to force Anet to implement this? In this thread there were several posts explaining why this poll is not reliable. If you make a poll that Anet should give the money back at the moment they switch off GW servers you will have almost all community voting for yes but will this mean that Anet really have to do that? If you want their attention write to them maybe you will get a direct answer.

DreamWind

Forge Runner

Join Date: Oct 2006

E/Mo

09 Sep 2008 at 10:46 - 1432

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kashrlyyk

QFT, I would have never tried GW without that.

Heros didn't even exist until Nightfall...

Inner Salbat

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Oct 2005

Leader - ANZAC

E/

09 Sep 2008 at 11:33 - 1433

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shasgaliel

500 out of 0.5k users in your opinion are enough to force Anet to implement this? In this thread there were several posts explaining why this poll is not reliable. If you make a poll that Anet should give the money back at the moment they switch off GW servers you will have almost all community voting for yes but will this mean that Anet really have to do that? If you want their attention write to them maybe you will get a direct answer.

Firstly if polls are invalid then every president of America is elected by fraud heck why stop there every elected official to a government position over the entire world is there by electoral fraud, on second thoughts maybe America isn't the best example.

Secondly I have emailed them on many other matters and you know the reply I got? it's always the same automated email.. "Go discuss it on a forum", they never give any direct opinion by email other than the automatic reply.

Thirdly that is a stupid request to ask for everyones money back, it's not even a realistic request that is feasible, however requesting something be put in the game that is reasonable isn't, you cannot go 2 extremes and call the other invalid if one of them is out right unrealistic.

DreamWind

Forge Runner

Join Date: Oct 2006

E/Mo

09 Sep 2008 at 12:22 - 1434

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inner Salbat

Firstly if polls are invalid then every president of America is elected by fraud heck why stop there every elected official to a government position over the entire world is there by electoral fraud, on second thoughts maybe America isn't the best example.

Actually America's current president WAS elected by fraud...but that is beside the point.

The point is I could easily make another poll worded differently that would invalidate the results of this thread. I could make a poll asking "do you think Guild Wars was better when it was just Prophecies or just Prophecies and Factions" and I can guarantee it would get a resounding yes. Guess what didn't exist back then? Heros. I could also make a poll "do you think the community is an important part of Guild Wars" and that would also almost assuredly get a yes even though heros create a divide in the community and make it so you don't even have to interact with the community.

So yes, this poll is invalid. I wouldn't be shocked if Anet listened to it though. They've listened to every garbage idea over the years might as well do this one! (Even though I don't really care if this one happens or not).

Inner Salbat

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Oct 2005

Leader - ANZAC

E/

09 Sep 2008 at 12:59 - 1435

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

The point is I could easily make another poll worded differently that would invalidate the results of this thread. I could make a poll asking "do you think Guild Wars was better when it was just Prophecies or just Prophecies and Factions" and I can guarantee it would get a resounding yes. Guess what didn't exist back then?

Your asking a question if the game was better 2 years ago not a question about heros they are not related and that is a bad comparison, you cannot invalid a poll with data from something that has absolutely no connection too another one, you could invalidate this poll by asking if the game was better with or without henchmen/heros that would at least be in the same ball park.

And yes as I said on second thoughts.

Shasgaliel

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2008

[bomb]

09 Sep 2008 at 13:39 - 1436

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inner Salbat

Firstly if polls are invalid then every president of America is elected by fraud heck why stop there every elected official to a government position over the entire world is there by electoral fraud, on second thoughts maybe America isn't the best example.

Thirdly that is a stupid request to ask for everyones money back, it's not even a realistic request that is feasible, however requesting something be put in the game that is reasonable isn't, you cannot go 2 extremes and call the other invalid if one of them is out right unrealistic.

I never saw a notification that this is an official poll and Anet is abide by its result. I can make a poll here about who will be the next US president and that will have the same significance I am afraid. Even if Anet themselves made a poll on the subject it does not mean that they will ever implement something on the basis of its results. It might be just an indication nothing more. The numbers are much too small yet to be significant to them even for this matter. It is even not a significant number of Guru users not mentioning the whole GW community.

Instead of proposing them 7 heroes we may propose them a poll on it (which people will be able to fill in when loading to the game). Then if many people reply yes we might have the matter brought back. Anet said "no" once already and not much changed since then.

As I stated before 7 heroes is a good idea but it is much too early for that.

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

09 Sep 2008 at 14:15 - 1437

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

If your trying to avoid pugs cause you get frustrated, why? its pve, and a game, you'll get over it.

So the choices are either A. Play with PUGs and just "get over it", or B. Play by yourself and not have to deal with it in the first place.

Just one of many reasons why quite a few prefer to solo than to pug.

Also: It's AI not IA. People are going to think you're talking about increased attack speed or something.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

The point is I could easily make another poll worded differently that would invalidate the results of this thread. I could make a poll asking "do you think Guild Wars was better when it was just Prophecies or just Prophecies and Factions" and I can guarantee it would get a resounding yes. Guess what didn't exist back then?

There are tons of reasons why people are going to say "yes" in that poll, the lack of heroes might not be one of them.

Also, what else didn't exist back then was a *much* larger and much more separated playerbase.

sixofone

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2007

P/

09 Sep 2008 at 15:17 - 1438

A poll is not a ballot, people. It's a sample - a representation that, theoretically, indicates a general trend, an indication of interest, nothing more. So, the fact that only 500 people on guru have been polled doesn't invalidate the poll. If the trend holds consistent across other fan sites, it's accurate. 85% of people playing GW would like the option of 7 heroes. That's what the poll indicates. Given a broader polling populace, the numbers may drop - or they may stay the same. All you can say for sure is that 85% of the people polled would prefer this option.

But, please, don't tell me the poll is invalid. You can poll 30 people or 300, and you do it to get a sense of "is there a trend?" with a given group.

Inner Salbat

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Oct 2005

Leader - ANZAC

E/

09 Sep 2008 at 15:21 - 1439

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Also, what else didn't exist back then was a *much* larger and much more separated playerbase.

You know what that says to me? though each chapter they released people that owned previous chapters brought the new ones however new players declined, if they had increased the population should be big enough to support PuGs in any area.

Martin Firestorm

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2005

Louisiana

E/Me

09 Sep 2008 at 15:50 - 1440

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inner Salbat

That's rather a defeatist attitude any company that ignores it's community when it is over overwhelmingly obvious that the community is in favor of something as shown by the poll, would be morons to ignore it.

further more I've been thinking of ways to draw there attention to it maybe stage a sit in L.A or something.

Not really. I play the game they give me, and find ways to make it work for me, though its not like I really have to try much. If I were to become frustrated enough to stage a sit it at LA or otherwise try to force a change, my change would be to another game.

Inner Salbat

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Oct 2005

Leader - ANZAC

E/

09 Sep 2008 at 17:18 - 1441

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Firestorm

Not really. I play the game they give me, and find ways to make it work for me, though its not like I really have to try much. If I were to become frustrated enough to stage a sit it at LA or otherwise try to force a change, my change would be to another game.

Indeed you have a valid point it is for that reason that I don't think GW2 will be that big of a hit like GW1 was, GW1 just broke the mold on no-fees it's been done and the ace card has been played, it really doesn't matter how good GW2 is if customers some how dislike the way they maintained the game for GW1 and that is where the bulk of there customers for GW2 currently are they should be treating them like royalty so that GW2 gets the best foot out the door it can, but then there so much hype about GW2 that I often wonder if it's not just all hot air.

trankle

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Oct 2005

BloodBath & Beyond

Rt/

09 Sep 2008 at 17:55 - 1442

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDRyder

Then i ask why are they playing GW if they dont want to play with other players? I dont think any1 looked at the GW box and saw "play alone" and thats what made you buy the game.

I think what you mean is that you didn't buy the game for that reason. Don't make the mistake of thinking that everyone shares your viewpoint.

I, for example, chose GW after moving to a new state. I wanted a game I could play with my friend back home during the weekends, but could also play solo during my after work time. The GW box at Target let me know that both of these were viable options. If it had advertised itself as a game where grouping were required, I would not have purchased it.

I am an example of a player who wants to play an online game, because I want to play with one specific person, but does not have any interest at all in grouping with strangers. I'm not playing to make friends, or even to meet people. I've heard many other players say that they play online games to stay in touch with friends or family members.

Here's what you have to understand: PUGging is only a subset of the valid ways to enjoy GW. There are basically three ways:

1. Playing with people familiar to you. (Guilds, friends, family)
2. Playing with people unfamiliar to you. (PUGs)
3. Playing with AI. (H/H)

And then, of course, there are combinations of these three. Some players have it in their heads that one of these methods, playing with people unfamiliar to you, should be held up as the highest and loftiest goal of the game. They should get over that.

That said, I understand that none of the above gives any reason for allowing full hero parties. While I would appreciate the flexibility and creative control full hero parties would allow, I have been getting along fine with H/H, and will continue to do so.

What I am tired of is the idea that if I don't choose to play with strangers, I should not be playing an online game. It would be great if that argument were dropped as the nonsense it is. Zero heroes, three heroes, or seven heroes, I'm not going to group with you. Get over it.

Vamis Threen

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2006

E/Mo

09 Sep 2008 at 18:11 - 1443

Quote:

Originally Posted by trankle

What I am tired of is the idea that if I don't choose to play with strangers, I should not be playing an online game. It would be great if that argument were dropped as the nonsense it is. Zero heroes, three heroes, or seven heroes, I'm not going to group with you. Get over it.

Brutal, but true.

Me, I wanted to play another RPG. The free-to-play aspect made it risk-free. The skill combinations looked good. I wanted to train up an avatar. It seemed versatile. The searing got me hooked. I studiously avoided playing with people until I couldn't avoid it (THK pre-heroes? I hahaha). Heroes saved this game for me, got me thinking about other skills, and eventually playing other professions.

vandevere

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Aug 2007

The Great State of Denial

W/Mo

09 Sep 2008 at 18:17 - 1444

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vamis Threen

Brutal, but true.

Me, I wanted to play another RPG. The free-to-play aspect made it risk-free. The skill combinations looked good. I wanted to train up an avatar. It seemed versatile. The searing got me hooked. I studiously avoided playing with people until I couldn't avoid it (THK pre-heroes? I hahaha). Heroes saved this game for me, got me thinking about other skills, and eventually playing other professions.

I used my heroes to learn how all the professions worked. Granted, there are AI issues, and things like that. But I learned how to be a good nuker from my Ele heroes...

Besides, like I've said before, for me, it's primarily a mood thing. If I'm feeling sociable, I'll pug. If not, I'll h/h. I want all the options available to me...