I don't really like to play in real people teams anymore, it's not the same as that days +2 years ago, so I play solo; With full heroes I will be able to solo more easily (and more enjoyable in frustrating (to solo) parts of the game)
Also, a full heroes party update shouldn't come alone, in the same update they should add the possibility to enter FoW, UW, and every elite area/mission with the full heroes too.
Contrarily to people thinking, this won't make the party overpowered, not more than 2 players and 6 heroes indeed, and obviously not more than 8 real good players.
Also, contrarily to ArenaNet say, I think this update does not requires any expensive and long developing, IMO they are just plain lying for some reason, and I think they actually use full heroes in testing servers, I mean this thing is already in game; no need to develop a thing, just turn on.
A discussion on 7 heroes
NeHoMaR
Destro Maniak
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by NeHoMaR
I don't really like to play in real people teams anymore, it's not the same as that days +2 years ago, so I play solo; With full heroes I will be able to solo more easily (and more enjoyable in frustrating (to solo) parts of the game)
Also, a full heroes party update shouldn't come alone, in the same update they should add the possibility to enter FoW, UW, and every elite area/mission with the full heroes too. Contrarily to people thinking, this won't make the party overpowered, not more than 2 players and 6 heroes indeed, and obviously not more than 8 real good players. Also, contrarily to ArenaNet say, I think this update does not requires any expensive and long developing, IMO they are just plain lying for some reason, and I think they actually use full heroes in testing servers, I mean this thing is already in game; no need to develop a thing, just turn on. |
I also agree that it wouldnt be overpowered than 8 good player team
I ALSO WANT heroes to use pve only skills
Why not is my question
IF I can why heroes CANT?
Bryant Again
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Destro Maniak
I ALSO WANT heroes to use pve only skills
Why not is my question IF I can why heroes CANT? |
NeHoMaR
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Bryant Again
Pugging incentive.
|
Darkobra
If I wasn't going to pug when we had no heroes, I'm definitely not going to now that we have 3.
pamelf
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Vamis Threen
Heroes saved this game for me, got me thinking about other skills, and eventually playing other professions.
|
Bryant Again
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by NeHoMaR
|
Burst Cancel
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Bryant Again
What happens, though, when you have a certain character that *doesn't* have any of those disadvantages? When there's a character where you don't have to work or push yourself when it's not needed? A character who's a "rock" and always turns his opponents into "scissors"?
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Bryant Again
At such a point, it doesn't matter how hard you push yourself. It's not going to be your skill that determines your victory, but the faults of your opponent. When this comes into play, your game is unbalanced.
|
I understand what you're trying to say; again, though, this sort of situation just doesn't happen very often.
Bryant Again
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Burst Cancel
This is a pretty extreme situation that is obvious to just about anyone - and, more importantly, a situation that pretty much never happens in competition-level games. I've frankly never heard of any characters/builds/races/etc. with no disadvantages or counters.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Burst Cancel
This actually isn't saying much, because even in balanced games one person has to make a mistake for the other person to win. The winners are the ones that make fewer mistakes and/or are more able to recognize and capitalize on the mistakes of others.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Burst Cancel
I understand what you're trying to say; again, though, this sort of situation just doesn't happen very often.
|
Having counters to your characters is one thing, and in GG it's balanced. But having certain playstyles/strategies that *don't* have a whole lot of counters is another problem altogether, even moreso when they're not terribly difficult to master. In that instance it's not just game design, it's poor game design, and it's starting to appear much more frequently in today's games.
JDRyder
I dont see how people say they would have left the game if heros were not added, your doing the same content you were before just with NPCS other than players. If you say "its to hard with pugs" or "pugs are noob" thats what guilds are for. I left the game shorty after NF came out for a month or 2 cause it got so boring.
Fitz Rinley
I rarely PUG and do not want to. Sometimes I get dragged into it by other players I know. In 99% of the cases the result is total failure because the others dont know what they are doing. Then I take my friend and we go out with heroes and do it right.
Do I have any interest in playing with the majority - No, nor will I develop it in the near future given what I experience daily in towns and outposts.
Do I have any interest in playing with the majority - No, nor will I develop it in the near future given what I experience daily in towns and outposts.
Zahr Dalsk
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Bryant Again
Pugging incentive.
|
Bryant Again
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by JDRyder
I dont see how people say they would have left the game if heros were not added...
|
Crom The Pale
One of GW's flaws, and its success as well, is that it is a team based game.
That means that you do not just need a good build for your character but a good team build as well.
When you form a PUG you need to either accept that your not going to have a good team build or you need to fight and argue for an hour to get people to change there builds, sometimes even just to show you thier builds so you can adapt yours.
Hero's allow people to create custom team builds, but only 50% of the team. That is very frustrating to many players.
Yes I am in a guild and yes when we play together we own with great ease. But not every time I log in are they all on or ready and willing to do what I wish to do.
That is why we are asking for 7 Hero's, so we can create a team build, something the game was designed around, and play the game.
That means that you do not just need a good build for your character but a good team build as well.
When you form a PUG you need to either accept that your not going to have a good team build or you need to fight and argue for an hour to get people to change there builds, sometimes even just to show you thier builds so you can adapt yours.
Hero's allow people to create custom team builds, but only 50% of the team. That is very frustrating to many players.
Yes I am in a guild and yes when we play together we own with great ease. But not every time I log in are they all on or ready and willing to do what I wish to do.
That is why we are asking for 7 Hero's, so we can create a team build, something the game was designed around, and play the game.
Dawgboy
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by JDRyder
I dont see how people say they would have left the game if heros were not added, your doing the same content you were before just with NPCS other than players. If you say "its to hard with pugs" or "pugs are noob" thats what guilds are for. I left the game shorty after NF came out for a month or 2 cause it got so boring.
|
Actually, it's more like doing the same content with some customizable npc's instead of a team totally of pre-mades. No other players involved before or after. How many people are going to say "I DON'T PLAY WITH STRANGERS, AND HEROES HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH IT" before you actually comprehend?
I agree with your guild comment. If you want to play with others that's a good way to do it.
I just don't see why you want to control how I play; I paid my money for the game same as you, and I don't care if you spend every waking moment dancing nekkid through town.
I'd rather avoid cutting up my post with little quotes of your post and looking like a douche, so I'll paraphrase the next part.
JDRyder: "Players that refuse to pug suck because they won't learn how to play properly."
1-If they refuse to pug, what business is it of yours how they play? You'll never play with them, never even see their skill bar.
2-This is an excellent example of why a 7-hero option would improve the game. What do you learn from henchmen? Monk good, two monks better, fire good. With heroes you learn which skills are actually useful on the various professions. Right now with 3 heroes the great majority use just a few of them(monk/monk/ele or 3 necroes, for example) and the rest rot.
If they upped it to 7 heroes that would give players the incentive to learn more profs. and also the incentive to play more to cap skills for their now-viable lesser heroes.
As for those that say it wouldn't be a challenge with 7 heroes, you can go ahead and keep using henchies. I used to try to get by with as few henchmen as possible way back when because of the challenge as well as the extra loot that used to drop.
It's true most all the game can be done with h/h, but there's a few spots where it's nearly impossible without all 8 builds being above average. That leaves out most henchman builds. If that means I either have to party or not do it I don't do it.
Inner Salbat
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dawgboy
It's true most all the game can be done with h/h, but there's a few spots where it's nearly impossible without all 8 builds being above average. That leaves out most henchman builds. If that means I either have to party or not do it I don't do it.
|
Which brings us into the area of things taking too long for PuGs to cohesively stay together long enough to complete the content, which for 7 hero's is not an issue because at any time you can press the pause button.
pamelf
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by JDRyder
I dont see how people say they would have left the game if heros were not added, your doing the same content you were before just with NPCS other than players.
|
I definitely would have left the game AGES ago if they hadn't introduced heroes. And I think Anet knew it too. The player base in outposts was thinning out. They had to do something drastic to keep people playing. So now we have heroes.
I'd wager that without heroes this beloved game of yours would be a ghost town.
slowerpoke
i guess they could always compromise and only allow full hero parties in hardmode, or at least update all of the henchmens bars with viable skills (they only have skills on 5-7 slots)
ofcourse none of that will matter without improvements to AI, which seems to be getting worse than better these days
ofcourse none of that will matter without improvements to AI, which seems to be getting worse than better these days
Wildi
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by legion_rat
Would you prefer to run with 7 heros if you could? What reasons would you not?
|
btw. I don't think people would party up if there would be no heroes, they would simply use henchman instead. Of course heroes are more powerful than henchmen, but playing with your own guild is even more powerful so what
JDRyder
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by pamelf
But there's more scope. Most of us got bored waiting around in outposts for some actions, and having those henchemen or npc's who constantly used exactly the same skills. Heroes put in some variation and gave us incentive to try new things, and keep playing without having to hang out in towns forever hoping some team manages to map in just happen to want to do the same thing you are doing.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by pamelf
I'd wager that without heroes this beloved game of yours would be a ghost town.
|
sixofone
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by pamelf
I definitely would have left the game AGES ago if they hadn't introduced heroes. And I think Anet knew it too. The player base in outposts was thinning out. They had to do something drastic to keep people playing. So now we have heroes.
|
Inner Salbat
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by JDRyder
then get a guild or something, you already had the tools needed to have fun you just didnt want to use them.
|
When they where brought up they didn't wait around thinking well I'll wait till we can all do it together, they went about doing there own thing on there own time frame because that is what suited them best.
More importantly now that the Guild is basically a shell for all the accounts than no longer play at all there isn't anyone available to play with ditching the guild is not an option either, as it sentimental value to those that are mildly active and to myself.
Neither do I want to join another guild I'm done with the BS that happens when your in a Guild, all the dramas and problems between people I've had enough of it, I'm done with it I spent a year and a half helping other people it's now my time to get my own goals completed with the game.
I also find something entirely disgusting that the only way to beat areas is to have a guild which normally comes with TS/Vent for that to be required or you fail when it comes to PvE, PvE shouldn't be that you need to have the equivalent of Hal Moore to be able to get it done.
JDRyder
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Inner Salbat
Having a guild brings about other problems as well that are similar in a fashion to PuGs, even ANZAC at it's most active it was hard to find a single member that wanted to do the same thing as any other person, I found myself re-doing content over and over and over and over again, just to bring them up to where I was.
|
1)the guild was not made for doing stuff together
2)the guild just invited random people form LA
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Inner Salbat
When they where brought up
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Inner Salbat
More importantly now that the Guild is basically a shell for all the accounts than no longer play at all there isn't anyone available to play with ditching the guild is not an option either, as it sentimental value to those that are mildly active and to myself.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Inner Salbat
Neither do I want to join another guild I'm done with the BS that happens when your in a Guild, all the dramas and problems between people I've had enough of it, I'm done with it I spent a year and a half helping other people it's now my time to get my own goals completed with the game.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Inner Salbat
I also find something entirely disgusting that the only way to beat areas is to have a guild which normally comes with TS/Vent for that to be required or you fail when it comes to PvE, PvE shouldn't be that you need to have the equivalent of Hal Moore to be able to get it done.
|
some areas need to kick the ass of even the best players or the game is to easy and there would be no hard areas to play.
Zahr Dalsk
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by JDRyder
how do you know the reason less people play now didnt have something to do with heros being added?
|
JDRyder
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk
Most of the people who play with H/H these days would already have finished with the game if ArenaNet had not added heroes. The remainder would be playing with henchmen and trying to tell themselves they're having fun dealing with the terrible henchman AI.
|
Inner Salbat
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by JDRyder
thats cause of 2 reasons
1)the guild was not made for doing stuff together 2)the guild just invited random people form LA Guild die all the time, due to lack of leadership most the time. |
No only New Zealander / Australians could join, and they had to join by finding our website (now gone), I relaxed that a little later after I became leader.
It died because I left it to try another Guild out, I won't look for new members to fill the ranks either because a guild should be about people who "personally" know each other not a set of random people getting together when it suits them to do something, there is no substants in the friendship what so ever.
Sekhmet
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by JDRyder
or playing with friends/guild/pugs having fun ....
|
I H/H all the time I have a guild of close friends,
If I play with them , Great.
If I H/H w/o them, Great.
I enjoy the time I spend in the game.
Whether it is with or without other human contact. What I do not find fun is being barred from access to areas due to the fact I cant find a group big enough and/or have 4 brain dead henchmen that are on a good day poorly equipped to handle the job.
JDRyder
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Inner Salbat
Wrong & Wrong, the Guild was made pre-beta by someone other than myself I gained leadership of it much later on when it had started showing the signs of dying, I managed to pump some life into it for a while but leading a guild often means neglecting playing the game to make sure things are running right, and with no underlings to take care of things or unwilling to take on that responsibility for the most part, it was left on my shoulders.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Inner Salbat
No only New Zealander / Australians could join, and they had to join by finding our website (now gone), I relaxed that a little later after I became leader.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Inner Salbat
It died because I left it to try another Guild out, I won't look for new members to fill the ranks either because a guild should be about people who "personally" know each other not a set of random people getting together when it suits them to do something, there is no substants in the friendship what so ever.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Sekhmet
Who are you to decide what having fun constitutes?
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Sekhmet
I enjoy the time I spend in the game.
Whether it is with or without other human contact. What I do not find fun is being barred from access to areas due to the fact I cant find a group big enough and/or have 4 brain dead henchmen that are on a good day poorly equipped to handle the job. |
Lord Oranos
I voted no, but I hate what heroes did to the community anyway. It's not like it's going to make it any worse now.
I actually liked pugging in Prophecies and Factions, then when Nightfall came around people decided they were too good for real people and just used heroes.
Maybe I overstated it, but that's how I feel.
I actually liked pugging in Prophecies and Factions, then when Nightfall came around people decided they were too good for real people and just used heroes.
Maybe I overstated it, but that's how I feel.
Zahr Dalsk
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by JDRyder
friends
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by JDRyder
guild
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by JDRyder
pugs
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by JDRyder
having fun
|
Lord Oranos
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk
Pickup groups and having fun... that is a contradiction, my friend.
|
Darkobra
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Lord Oranos
I voted no, but I hate what heroes did to the community anyway. It's not like it's going to make it any worse now.
I actually liked pugging in Prophecies and Factions, then when Nightfall came around people decided they were too good for real people and just used heroes. Maybe I overstated it, but that's how I feel. |
SOF
I voted yes.
BUT
The question is wrong to be honest.
As at the end of the day, 7 heroes would be greatly prefered yeah, but it'd make PvE so stupidly easy that it would ruin the whole concept of an MMORPG, working with other players...
If you want 7 heroes, go Q_Q and buy some crappy RPG.
Just my 2 cents...
BUT
The question is wrong to be honest.
As at the end of the day, 7 heroes would be greatly prefered yeah, but it'd make PvE so stupidly easy that it would ruin the whole concept of an MMORPG, working with other players...
If you want 7 heroes, go Q_Q and buy some crappy RPG.
Just my 2 cents...
JDRyder
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk
My friends in GW have all left; we got tired of waiting forever for 7-hero parties, tired at the lack of good content, and just plain bored.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk
See above, last great guild I was in dissolved and while I looked, I could not find others worth playing with.
|
legacyofkain85
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by JDRyder
or playing with friends/guild/pugs having fun ....
|
JDRyder
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by legacyofkain85
no such thing ,having fun playing with pugs?yes sure in our newbie days when only prophecies was around.
|
Cathode_Reborn
Part of the fun with 7 heroes is that it'd open doors to tons of you new builds. Sure you could steamroll PvE even more if you wanted to, but I know there'd be many others trying out more "fun" but less effective builds.
Sure I could pug and beat most of PvE, but I think it'd just be funner when you're using specific team builds made from scratch.
Sure I could pug and beat most of PvE, but I think it'd just be funner when you're using specific team builds made from scratch.
trankle
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by JDRyder
no drama problems in TAM, I have been in guild that do have drama and its always do to people not being able to get over it and taking a joke, next time get better people other than standing in LA spamming "Guild looking for members"
|
Also, is it not true that every time you group with seven guild members, that's seven potential PUGgers you exclude?
Bryant Again
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Lord Oranos
Sorry, no. Stop generalizing.
|
Dark Paladin X
well I could find another player and have him/her put in his/her best heroes. so having 7 heroes, yeah, a bit overpowered. But again, some of the skill bars on the henchies really suck.