A discussion on 7 heroes
Boogz
7heroes will never be implemented, just give up.There's no heroes on prophecies or factions, henchmen would have to be removed, it would discourage to play with other players (read: not a full-human PUG, 2 players + 6 heroes)
JDRyder
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Originally Posted by Sleeper Service
Jesus get a clue before talking, if the game had remained the same as at release it would be Prophesies only and people would have LEFT.
there a ton of other arguments posted previously but hey if you cant be bothered to read and all you want is people to play your way and with you....well, prepared to be disappointed. |
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Originally Posted by eximiis
What about 8 human with pve skills, and Human brain ?? would that be better than 7 heroes ??
Imagine all the builds a 8 human could do !!. We don't need 7 heroes because the game is too hard !! it's because pugs are bad and guildies are offline and we want to test out some builds. see the synergy betwen them, or just for the fun of playing with 2 mesmer in pve. Can you be more inbalance 6 echo/CoP ?? come on, don't talk of 7 heroes being overpower !! |
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Originally Posted by trankle
You do understand that real players are more powerful than heroes, don't you? Heroes are arguably better than humans in two instances that I can think of: minion targeting and interruption timing. On the other hand, a decent player can perform better than a hero in almost every other aspect of the game: positioning, target selection, using skill combos, intelligent interrupting, avoiding AoE, kiting, not single-mindedly chasing kiters, etc. A team of real players has more power potential than a seven hero group does. Add PvE skills to the mix, and I can't believe people are able to keep a straight face while claiming seven heroes would make the game too easy. Seriously.
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Originally Posted by trankle
Well, it's only bad if you don't want to answer it.
If you are claiming that players should play with friends or guildies, or failing that, PUG's, but then you say you sometimes play H/H, then I'm wondering what could lead you to make that decision. I have a couple guesses: 1. You are playing at a time when guildies/friends are not available/willing to join you in your chosen task, and you cannot find a PUG. If this is the case, you would be admitting that "play with other people" doesn't always work as an argument. 2. You are sometimes in a mood to play alone, or to do a task/quest that you feel doesn't warrant the process of grouping with real people. So you choose to help kill the game instead of playing with real players. 3. You do not actually play in full H/H parties, but wanted to claim you do in order to be able to speak with authority about them. Since I only have guesses, I thought I'd ask. Care to answer? |
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Originally Posted by Amy Awien
They wouldn't have bought Nightfall and EotN and that would have made a serious dent in ANet's incentive to keep the servers online.
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Originally Posted by tmr819
As I asked earlier in this thread, if the ability to use 7 heroes was an option obtainable via purchase, what would be the effect?
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DreamWind
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Originally Posted by R.Shayne
The lack of logic is amazing. PuGs are dead and PuGs are what killed them, not heroes. I had stopped joining pugs before Sorrow’s Furnace was released.
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And PuGs didn't kill PuGs. The ever widening PvE world killed PuGs because the community is more spread out. Heroes just compounded the problem.
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Originally Posted by R.Shayne
If you don’t think full hero parties are needed then go to Urgoz and try to get a PuG team together, pack a lunch. Remember only real players, no heroes and no guild or alliance members. If you succeed in getting a PuG together then see how far you get.
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But this is besides the point. I said earlier I could care less if they implemented 11 heroes. I'm just saying some of the arguments given here FOR heroes are terrible. Come up with something better.
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Originally Posted by Sleeper Service
heaven forbid having a positive enjoyable experience while playing a game.
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Originally Posted by Sleeper Service
Jesus get a clue before talking, if the game had remained the same as at release it would be Prophesies only and people would have LEFT.
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Inner Salbat
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Originally Posted by Amy Awien
They wouldn't have bought Nightfall and EotN and that would have made a serious dent in ANet's incentive to keep the servers online.
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Off Topic Forum Education
For those sick of idiot posts I present to you the [IGNORE] option.
1. Click on the menu item [User CP] (User Control Panel) in the upper left of the webpage.
2. In the Miscellaneous section click on -> Buddy / Ignore Lists
3. On the next page you'll see 2 columns of boxes 1 is for Buddy the other is Ignore, type the name of the person you wish to ignore into the top most box on the right, example : JDRyder
4. Before you leave the page Click Update Ignore List.
5. Congratulate yourself that you don't have to listen to trolls.
zwei2stein
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Originally Posted by Boogz
There's no heroes on prophecies or factions
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Originally Posted by Boogz
, henchmen would have to be removed,
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Originally Posted by Boogz
it would discourage to play with other players (read: not a full-human PUG, 2 players + 6 heroes)
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Sleeper Service
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Originally Posted by DreamWind
The lack of you completely not responding to my point is amazing. Since when does the majority say what is good for the game?
And PuGs didn't kill PuGs. The ever widening PvE world killed PuGs because the community is more spread out. Heroes just compounded the problem. I fail to see why I would be restricted to PuGs. This game is called Guild Wars for a reason... But this is besides the point. I said earlier I could care less if they implemented 11 heroes. I'm just saying some of the arguments given here FOR heroes are terrible. Come up with something better. I don't mind people having positive experiences...unless of course it is bad for the game or ruins other people's positive experiences. Do you know how many changes have been made to this game over the years that have made it less enjoyable for many players? If the game had remained the same as at release, most of the people I know would NOT have left. The additions are what made them leave. Ever think of that? |
and...wait are you not one of the usual whining crew that complains about "broken" pvp and the fact that "we have nothing left to do"? THATs the people that leave you know.
Ursan was not the problem, people being rewarded for repeatedly doing the same actions over and over is the problem.
Ursan just made it stupidly easy to do that.
Tyla
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Ursan was just a different problem than grind. Ursan went against this game's design in alot of ways.
/Off-topic.
Ursan was just a different problem than grind. Ursan went against this game's design in alot of ways.
/Off-topic.
Shasgaliel
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Originally Posted by eximiis
I have read this thread. the same arguments are post over and over because they are true. If ppl already have a guild then play with your guilds and don't pug. experience with pugs are bad.
And NO 7 heroes will NOT REDUCE the possibility of PUGS. the possibility are already kill !!!! It's like shooting on a dead body. He's already dead so he won't die more ! |
1. They could not do missions/vq with 3 heroes so they Pug. If they can do with 7 they will not Pug thus reducing the pugging possibility - do not tell me there are no such people. Some of them posted in this thread.
2. People with high titles such as Norn or lb will prefer heroes over players with lower title ranks - heroes benefit from players titles. Now they have still incentive to replace henchmen with players this incentive might not me true for heroes. This group of players is not empty as well.
3. Some players just cannot stand henchmen, they can just flagged as one group, their skills cannot be changed etc. So they PUG. with 7 heroes more control so no PUG anymore.
4. Some of the new players might try to level up all their heroes. With having more them accessible at the same time they will have less incentive to team up.
Since those 4 groups will disappear from pugging group, pugging will diminish even more since people who had not many problems with pugging now will find it harder and more time consuming so they will switch to heroes or leave the game thus reducing pugging even more for others. You can argue it is happening now but there is still flow of new players there so it is not as bad now as it seems for people who do not pug and they pretend to know everything about pugs...
Do not give me arguments about people not pugging regarding 7 heroes. They did not pug so far so they will not pug with 7 heroes around. They do not influence pugging group anymore and they will not - so they are just irrelevant, What matters are the groups mentioned above.
Pugs are not dead. I Pugged seven missions in Prophecies yesterday just for fun and guess what, all were done with bonus....
Inner Salbat
Finally some good arguments to debate congratulations amazing what happens when you hit the ignore button and filter out the troll(s).
Missions I can understand being feasible in (normal mode) but hard mode? granted this is one thing I've not completed entirely, however what I've done of it includes Prophecies & Factions, so far the only mission I remotely PuGed was 1 mission in factions and that was 2/6 heros, there are such people but you need to take into account also time zones of which people play, because what might seam a bounty of rich populated areas to one person, when someone else gets on from another time zone it's a barren waste land, this could be why some are finding it hard to find good PuGs.
I may have misunderstood you here but how is this any different from player rank discrimination in general?
Essentially true however if they are so quick to give up there PuG'ing, the question then is were they enjoying it? too give something up like that quickly would mean to me they was doing it because they have to not because they want too, which means they where not having fun just putting up with it.
Hero's can only take you so far before you end up with a wall in your face, and you've no choice but to find people to play with because Hero's will never match the AI of a human in GW ever, maybe that is a plus for the game because once they've reached that point they will know a lot more about how the classes synergies with each other as an entire team, and they might be more willing to listen to others about there build when they do PuG.
-- Again well done even if we don't agree at least you brought something to the table worthy of discussion.
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Originally Posted by Shasgaliel
1. They could not do missions/vq with 3 heroes so they Pug. If they can do with 7 they will not Pug thus reducing the pugging possibility - do not tell me there are no such people. Some of them posted in this thread.
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Originally Posted by Shasgaliel
2. People with high titles such as Norn or lb will prefer heroes over players with lower title ranks - heroes benefit from players titles. Now they have still incentive to replace henchmen with players this incentive might not me true for heroes. This group of players is not empty as well.
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Originally Posted by Shasgaliel
3. Some players just cannot stand henchmen, they can just flagged as one group, their skills cannot be changed etc. So they PUG. with 7 heroes more control so no PUG anymore.
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Originally Posted by Shasgaliel
4. Some of the new players might try to level up all their heroes. With having more them accessible at the same time they will have less incentive to team up.
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-- Again well done even if we don't agree at least you brought something to the table worthy of discussion.
Amy Awien
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Originally Posted by JDRyder
what? People would have got NF and EoTN for the same reasons i did, the new skills and new content/missions.
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Originally Posted by Inner Salbat
I would have because I like content I like playing it all too so that I don't feel like I've been ripped off the 320NZD+ it cost for all 4 games plus an additional 2 for the wife to play, but without heros I would not be playing the game at all anymore.
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I have no argument about the content, it's pretty good and I am especially fond of EotN and it's relation to (pre-searing) prophecies. But I would not have bought them if I'd be required to play them with PuGs.
Inner Salbat
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Originally Posted by Amy Awien
Would have bought and played them without the ability to play them through with H/H?
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If the areas where packed with people LFG for;
Vanquishing <insert area>
Mission (Hard Mode) <insert area> (all hard mode missions not just a rare few)
Dungeon <insert area> (normal and hard mode) (all hard mode dungeons not just a rare few)
If players could commit the time to complete UW/FoW/Urgoz/Deep/DoA any elite area then.. and only then would by sitting on the fence in regards to 7/11 heros, because there is an acceptable amount of chance to find real people to do it with.
Now I could go on the forums or go in game and find a new guild but because of reasons already stated but additionally it's one thing to play with people you've meet in game that don't visit forums, another to play with people who do know about forums and might do or say anything publicly about your play style which is something I'd rather void too.
JDRyder
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Originally Posted by Amy Awien
The people that prefer H/H would not have bought them if they couldn't have played these missions with H/H. Assuming that this is probably a large portion of the players - if it isn't there's no reason to blame PuG-fail on H/H - and it would have made a considerable impact if these players had not bought the sequel(s) and expansion.
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Wildi
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Originally Posted by DreamWind
If the game had remained the same as at release, most of the people I know would NOT have left. The additions are what made them leave. Ever think of that?
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Sleeper Service Jesus get a clue before talking, if the game had remained the same as at release it would be Prophesies only and people would have LEFT. |
Darkobra
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Originally Posted by JDRyder
its guru and there's like 4-6 people posting here, how does that make something overwhelmingly disagreed with?
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bj91x
Full heroes isn't just for solo players. There are many players who LOVE to play with people but would like full heroes for situations when they can't play with people.
I used to be one of those, but you can count me out now. Like I said, I love to play with people. Unfortunately, it's been getting harder and harder to play with people. A lot of times I try to find people to play with, all they are doing is grinding for titles. Back when I was still playing, full heroes would have kept me playing allowing me to be on "stand by" and have some kind of fun until somebody needed help. Unfortunately, I can rarely find people to play with now and the "stand by" time has been getting longer and longer. While full heroes would make playing alone more bearable, it still doesn't change the fact that playing alone is drop dead boring for me. I have no interest in being on "stand by" for hours playing alone with full heroes until I finally find somebody to play with. I'd rather do something else with my time.
I used to be one of those, but you can count me out now. Like I said, I love to play with people. Unfortunately, it's been getting harder and harder to play with people. A lot of times I try to find people to play with, all they are doing is grinding for titles. Back when I was still playing, full heroes would have kept me playing allowing me to be on "stand by" and have some kind of fun until somebody needed help. Unfortunately, I can rarely find people to play with now and the "stand by" time has been getting longer and longer. While full heroes would make playing alone more bearable, it still doesn't change the fact that playing alone is drop dead boring for me. I have no interest in being on "stand by" for hours playing alone with full heroes until I finally find somebody to play with. I'd rather do something else with my time.
JDRyder
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Originally Posted by Darkobra
Did you read the poll? It will ruin the game just as a rune trader did. Or the new dye system and adding white dyes. Or any other "The sky is falling" crap we hear day in, day out.
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Inner Salbat
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Originally Posted by bj91x
Unfortunately, it's been getting harder and harder to play with people. A lot of times I try to find people to play with, all they are doing is grinding for titles.
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It's time consuming for a reason though keep you playing if "Kind of a big deal" was easy to max and required little effort everyone would have it by now and have absolutely nothing to do because maxing all those titles basically means you've done everything there is to be done, your only source of entertainment then is PvP.
sixofone
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Originally Posted by Inner Salbat
I would have because I like content I like playing it all too so that I don't feel like I've been ripped off the 320NZD+ it cost for all 4 games plus an additional 2 for the wife to play, but without heros I would not be playing the game at all anymore.
Off Topic Forum Education For those sick of idiot posts I present to you the [IGNORE] option. 1. Click on the menu item [User CP] (User Control Panel) in the upper left of the webpage. 2. In the Miscellaneous section click on -> Buddy / Ignore Lists 3. On the next page you'll see 2 columns of boxes 1 is for Buddy the other is Ignore, type the name of the person you wish to ignore into the top most box on the right, example : JDRyder 4. Before you leave the page Click Update Ignore List. 5. Congratulate yourself that you don't have to listen to trolls. |
Inner Salbat
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Originally Posted by sixofone
Thank you for this tip! I had no idea you could filter out posts that have already been made! Now I can avoid getting hooked by troll-bait! (My fault, I know, but I'm weak when it comes to pointing out faulty arguments.)
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Skye Marin
I think that 7 heroes would make the game a cake walk.
You could have nothing on your own bar, and pretty much c-space any area with little to no consequences.
The only reason to pick up anyone else to play with would be PvE-only skills, which would be demanded to be Hero-usable by players next. Also, many hero builds do a better job than players, even with PvE-only skills. They don't get distracted, don't get tired, and listen to your commands better than you do.
The line has to be drawn somewhere.
You could have nothing on your own bar, and pretty much c-space any area with little to no consequences.
The only reason to pick up anyone else to play with would be PvE-only skills, which would be demanded to be Hero-usable by players next. Also, many hero builds do a better job than players, even with PvE-only skills. They don't get distracted, don't get tired, and listen to your commands better than you do.
The line has to be drawn somewhere.
Inner Salbat
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Originally Posted by Skye Marin
I think that 7 heroes would make the game a cake walk.
You could have nothing on your own bar, and pretty much c-space any area with little to no consequences. |
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Originally Posted by Skye Marin
The only reason to pick up anyone else to play with would be PvE-only skills, which would be demanded to be Hero-usable by players next.
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Originally Posted by Skye Marin
Also, many hero builds do a better job than players, even with PvE-only skills. They don't get distracted, don't get tired, and listen to your commands better than you do.
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I've been standing in a mob of 6+ I was attacking I had targeted the enemy, I checked my lag none at all, yet they where standing there dumb as posts doing nothing including the minions it wasn't until I re-flagged them and ran around the mob in circles that they finally got the picture --oh attack--.
I swear some of the stuff people do with h/h they deserve a medal for putting up with that.
Darkobra
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Originally Posted by JDRyder
we have already gone over this read back a few pages, just cause a lot of people want it does not make it good for the game. Plus its till only 600 people that have voted anyway, theres a lot more than 600 people playing the game.
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Grouping up with foul-mouthed, intolerable children who have no intentions of working together, in your eyes, is inconceivably better for the game than a dysfunctional AI who actually tries their best?
You're missing one thing here that makes any game great: Choice. I can choose to join with friends or I can choose to play alone. Why would choosing to play alone somehow break the game?
Unfortunately for you, I have read over a few pages and I've yet to see anything of substance to say why it's game breaking.
Bryant Again
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Originally Posted by Darkobra
Unfortunately for you, I have read over a few pages and I've yet to see anything of substance to say why it's game breaking.
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trankle
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Originally Posted by Skye Marin
I think that 7 heroes would make the game a cake walk.
You could have nothing on your own bar, and pretty much c-space any area with little to no consequences. The only reason to pick up anyone else to play with would be PvE-only skills, which would be demanded to be Hero-usable by players next. Also, many hero builds do a better job than players, even with PvE-only skills. They don't get distracted, don't get tired, and listen to your commands better than you do. The line has to be drawn somewhere. |
Also, I'm curious which builds, besides builds relying on minion targetting, can a hero perform better than a human? The only thing I can think of that comes close is an interrupter build, but even that's a hard sell. The hero can certainly beat the reflexes of most players, but the player gains the important advantage of being able to select what to interrupt.
Finally, I thought the benefit of playing with others is that it's enjoyable to play with others. No? I don't know how your guild is set up, but do you always pair with only one other player, as two players plus six heroes is the optimal setup as laid out above?
In my opinion, the best solution is to make different playstyles as equal as possible in terms of power potential. While seven heroes will not be as powerful as a human team, it's the closest we will come. After the different playstyles have similar power potentials, then decision on how to form groups will be made based on what is enjoyable to the players. How is that bad?
DreamWind
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Originally Posted by Sleeper Service
and...wait are you not one of the usual whining crew that complains about "broken" pvp and the fact that "we have nothing left to do"? THATs the people that leave you know.
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Originally Posted by Sleeper Service
Ursan was not the problem, people being rewarded for repeatedly doing the same actions over and over is the problem.
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Sometimes I wonder why I even bother posting here.
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Originally Posted by Wildi
If the game had remained the same as at release, the game would be dead, sherlock
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trankle
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Originally Posted by DreamWind
I could easily bet most people both PvE and PvP liked this game better when it was Prophecies only (before heroes existed). How hard is that to understand?
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Hey, you're right, it's easy to make claims based solely on personal opinion. Cool.
Inner Salbat
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Originally Posted by trankle
I could easily bet that most GW players have brown hair.
Hey, you're right, it's easy to make claims based solely on personal opinion. Cool. |
lmaoBasically anyone here disagreeing with the majority of the poll is a troll, I'm still yet to be convinced as to why this is a bad thing myself, in fact the points for that I've seen have just further re-enforced my own opinion that it is the right thing to do.
JDRyder
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Originally Posted by Darkobra
You're missing one thing here that makes any game great: Choice. I can choose to join with friends or I can choose to play alone. Why would choosing to play alone somehow break the game?
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If your bad your bad, if your good you good, its not Anets job to make the cater to your skill level.
If you just want to test builds, DL team builder and find some friends.
DreamWind
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Originally Posted by trankle
I could easily bet that most GW players have brown hair.
Hey, you're right, it's easy to make claims based solely on personal opinion. Cool. |
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Originally Posted by Inner Salbat
Basically anyone here disagreeing with the majority of the poll is a troll.
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tmr819
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Originally Posted by JDRyder
its not playing alone its having 7heros that will make the game a lot easier then it already is. The game needs to be hard in some areas or you'd just fly past every thing and stop playing. If some people cant do the areas that are harder, they need to get better not ask for 7heros. All of the game can be soloed with H/H atm, other than a few elite areas that were made for Guilds/friends...
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To address this concern in part, I would want to see ANet limit the use of 7 heroes to players who had completed a given campaign, sort of the way they offered the Razah Hero quest.
trankle
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Originally Posted by tmr819
I agree absolutely with this. Seven heroes would make the game substantially easier, imo.
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That's the fatal flaw with "seven heroes are too powerful" or "seven heroes would break the difficulty of the game" arguments. Eight real players are more powerful than one player plus AI. It's true now, and it would be true with seven heroes.
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Originally Posted by tmr819
To address this concern in part, I would want to see ANet limit the use of 7 heroes to players who had completed a given campaign, sort of the way they offered the Razah Hero quest.
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zwei2stein
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Originally Posted by tmr819
I agree absolutely with this. Seven heroes would make the game substantially easier, imo.
To address this concern in part, I would want to see ANet limit the use of 7 heroes to players who had completed a given campaign, sort of the way they offered the Razah Hero quest. |
Hell, start with only one hero slot.
tmr819
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Originally Posted by trankle
Easier than 3 heroes and four henchies, yes. Not as easy as with seven real players.
That's the fatal flaw with "seven heroes are too powerful" or "seven heroes would break the difficulty of the game" arguments. Eight real players are more powerful than one player plus AI. It's true now, and it would be true with seven heroes. |
I do know that the last time I tried PUGing was, I think, Tahnakai Temple quite some time ago. After a few failed attempts, ragequits, and much drama from my teammates (errr... this is fun???), I finally went back into the mission with h/h and mastered it. Sadly, I find the henches and heroes to be, on average, more pleasant "company" than your average PUG.So.... while I would agree with you that 7 heroes is easier than 3 heroes/4 henches, I am not so sure I would agree with 8 real players being more powerful than 1 player plus 7 heroes. Eight good players who know what they're doing? Definitely, that's the ideal. Eight good, well-coordinated, cooperative players are a powerful combo indeed. But how often does that happen? Most random player groups I have experienced are not better than 1 player + AI.
Provide me with a good reason, a payoff, for grouping with other players, and I'll do it more often. As a for instance, you have Regular Mode and Hard Mode now. Why not add a "Group Mode": dungeons and missions that are hard mode but can only be completed with player groups (no heroes or henches allowed)? Then offer some kind of nice reward for completion? Or possibly, just offer a bonus for any dungeon or mission completed in Hard Mode without any AI?
Sleeper Service
dream you completely missed the whole argument about why ursan was bad, not surprising really.
not even gonna bother explaining this again all you'll do is post the usual cat pictures response that your kind resorts to when confused.
not even gonna bother explaining this again all you'll do is post the usual cat pictures response that your kind resorts to when confused.
trankle
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Originally Posted by tmr819
So.... while I would agree with you that 7 heroes is easier than 3 heroes/4 henches, I am not so sure I would agree with 8 real players being more powerful than 1 player plus 7 heroes. Eight good players who know what they're doing? Definitely, that's the ideal. Eight good, well-coordinated, cooperative players are a powerful combo indeed. But how often does that happen? Most random player groups I have experienced are not better than 1 player + AI.
Provide me with a good reason, a payoff, for grouping with other players, and I'll do it more often. As a for instance, you have Regular Mode and Hard Mode now. Why not add a "Group Mode": dungeons and missions that are hard mode but can only be completed with player groups (no heroes or henches allowed)? Then offer some kind of nice reward for completion? Or possibly, just offer a bonus for any dungeon or mission completed in Hard Mode without any AI? |
) brains. It's up to players to work together, but from the moment they leave town, they've already got the advantage.As far as offering brib-... er, incentives to party with real players, they already do. Play with one real player, get six heroes. Any player on the team can use PvE skills.
And special hard areas where you must group to play...those would be the current Elite areas.
These incentives don't work in many cases because, extra advantages and rewards aside, some players just don't find it enjoyable to play with strangers.
JDRyder
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Originally Posted by tmr819
I agree absolutely with this. Seven heroes would make the game substantially easier, imo.
To address this concern in part, I would want to see ANet limit the use of 7 heroes to players who had completed a given campaign, sort of the way they offered the Razah Hero quest. |
Bryant Again
Wow, whatever happened to the concern about PUGs?
DreamWind
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Originally Posted by trankle
That's the fatal flaw with "seven heroes are too powerful" or "seven heroes would break the difficulty of the game" arguments. Eight real players are more powerful than one player plus AI. It's true now, and it would be true with seven heroes.
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The only legit argument I've seen for 7 heroes is that the community is so spread out that you can't find players in many places. That is the reason I don't really mind what happens. I am just saying there are so many garbage arguments in this thread that I had to post.
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Originally Posted by Sleeper Service
dream you completely missed the whole argument about why ursan was bad, not surprising really.
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The only reason I brought it and soul reaping up is to counter those people saying "most people voted yes so it should be added to the game" which is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.
Bryant Again
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Originally Posted by DreamWind
This argument is the fatal flaw of people that want 7 heros because they say PuGs are bad.
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7 heroes are not a "need", they're a "want". It's not a "why?", it's a "why not?". It's a feature that would have little to no impact on the game due to the fact that it's only going to be appealing to those who are currently using heroes.
doudou_steve
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Originally Posted by Bryant Again
...And that's a bad argument. But it is true that human players are in general better than h/h, both due to PvE skills and the faulty AI of the heroes.
7 heroes are not a "need", they're a "want". It's not a "why?", it's a "why not?". It's a feature that would have little to no impact on the game due to the fact that it's only going to be appealing to those who are currently using heroes. |
Tring to find a good party with good players, able to play the builds you want them to be, even if it's guildies- It's near of impossible.
So yeah, 8 good skilled humans>heroes
Trying to find those good humans IS the difficulty.
And if you say that human parties are better than heroes, then why the hell do you want 7 heroes???