A discussion on 7 heroes

Only time i see people asking for help on guru is when they just got the game, and this thread as well as just about every thread on guru kills your point.



Ive done that many times now, i dont feel like going over the same thing over and over any more.



You dont think adding heros got more people to solo?





If making builds is the only fun you get out of the game DL team builder. Some people may find it fun to have a sword that does 6000-100000 damage should it be added to the game? Just cause you want 7heros only to make builds "f***ing pointless" does not mean every 1 will make builds as a source of fun. Just like every thing they add to the game, 90% of the players will just abuse them for other reasons like farming ecto, gyms, etc.

I read them, but making builds is not a reason to add 7heros. There's more down sides if they are added than upsides.



Just think about it, think about about more then the upsides if they added heros, its a bad idea, you guys are only thinking about what will happen to your game w/o thinking/knowing anything about other people and what they may do with 7heros. Its more selfish to add them, you already can make heros builds, you already can solo every thing they want you to be able to "not being about to solo deep, DoA, etc things made for groups of real people" why are you asking for more?




Read before you post. a few post back BA was talking about how shitty they are and how they kill them selfs, so i said "well remove them if they are so shitty"

This thread has been pointless for the last 93 pages.

You don't think those people didn't want to solo in the first place, but couldn't without a halfway viable way....?

Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh what? First: How can you tell every single thread from all of these places is from nothing but "newbies"? Second:...How is her point "killed"?

Incorrect. You just don't have a point, and everything you've brought up has been refuted. You just keep falling back on your "I don't feel like going over it anymore" statement because that's all you have.

But here's the thing: Adding a sword that does one trillion brillion damage will harm the game. Adding 4 more hero slots will not.

Stop saying "I swear it's there!" and show us the downsides.

Because there's no reason not to implement them

...Which in retrospect was actually a very immature and highly unconstructive comment. You just keep digging yourself lower and lower, don't you?

So why are you here?

Also: Thanks Pam for saving me a post : )

-- Disclaimer --
{-
Playing Devils advocate because DJ just doesn't have the brain power it should be dully noted I am for 7 heroes not ageist I am just spawning the 2nd thread in my head that counters my own argument which internally was defeated.
-}

So without further ado and disclaimers beyond it effecting PuGs which has no grounds to be refuted I shall enter this, 7 or more heroes could course more lag on the server and make them untenable to be played on by any grouping people there by degrading the service they provide, this would just not effect PvE players but PvP players as well, the infer-structure hardware wise might not be capable of supporting such a demand either because a server operating henchmen vs heroes will be a whole different ball game, because they act differently than henchmen because of there basic need to grasp what skills are on there bar rather than as with the henchmen having a static set they have had all along.

Under these conditions what we are asking for is unreasonable to ask ArenaNet to foot the bill for no return.

{- Off Topic
A skill learned in life is you have a proposition young people tend to be exclusive either for or ageist, maybe they lack the mental capacity to argue ageist them self to be able to choose for or ageist based on a good internal review of the proposition, and choose based on emotion of if they want to be confrontational or go with the popular opinion.
-}

I thought you were going to provide some sort of argument to help JDRyder? Heroes require little to no more processing power more than Henchmen do, and given the stable nature of ArenaNet's server setup, not to mention the low amount of players, it would be quite literally impossible for full hero parties to cause lag.

all the quoting is getting more and more pointless with every reply.

even tho ive said it over and over 30+ pages ago

7Heros downsides
Will makes VQ's easier.
Will make quest/missions easier
Will make titles easier
Will make more bugs
Will make more exploits
Will make allow people to make solo farming DoA builds
Will make the game even more solo than it is now.
Will make it harder for new players to jump in and start playing.
Will kill any pugging thats going on now, cause people all ways take the easier way out, and will just use w/e the subway of 7heros would be and t space the game.

Theres more downsides, but im hoping you can put 2 and 2 together.

7Heros upsides
a few people will get to make their own team builds

What are the upsides? Making it easier for you to solo is not a reason. People just want the easy way out.

Well done that is how I defeated the argument in my own head too I had an additional thread running too at the same time, which was cost to develop / enable which is the I refuted with the payment option.

VQ's?

Wrong from 1 to 8, replied in classic DJryder style.

Good sir, I do believe you've misplaced the letters in the name of that fellow, whose proper name is JDRyder. Such tomfoolery would not go unnoticed even by an Intelligence Artificial.

While most of it is largely baseless and hugely subjective, I will comment on a few points.

This is good, since as you shown in regards to HM difficulty, you rather dislike such cheap limitations in place of difficulty. The only reason it's "harder" is because you're "gimped" by henchies. If it's harder due to much more practical and intelligent means than I could understand how "easier" would equal bad in this case. However, there are none.

Solo farming = 1 person in party. Solo farming =/= 1 person + 7 AI.

These are the only two things worth discussing about. But quite honestly, you've provided *no* proof or reasoning how adding 7 heroes will kill pugging. If 3 heroes are so "awesome and overpowered", why is only a percentage of the game population getting on them?

Here's just a bit of what we know:
-The game, for many, is not easy.
+This can be seen due to the existence of a wiki, both fanmade and official
+This can be seen due to the Q&A forum
+The Campfire forums
+The Gladiator's Arena forums
+The Explorer's League forums
+The toning down of some areas in Normal Mode
+And the discussion found in each one

-In order to be successful with heroes, you need:
+The proper build set up
+The proper skills required for the proper build set ups
+The proper build knowledge
+The proper build synergy
+...All of which not easily accessible

So because of these facts and the fact that setting up a team of 7 heroes is a bit more taxing than setting of only 3, pugs will not "die". If you can't do well with 3 heroes, you won't do well with 7.

Full guildie human group downsides
makes VQ's easier.
makes quest/missions easier
makes titles easier
allows people to farm DoA
makes it harder for new players to jump in and start playing.
kills any pugging thats going on now, cause people all ways take the easier way out, and will just use w/e the subway of guild they play in.

I would, for one, ban everyone from playing with more than three alliancees/friends and ban playing with people from your guild as it makes game unacceptably unfavorable to pugging.

The problem I have with this is that nobody in this thread is qualified to determine what is good or bad for the game. How do you know 4 more heroes won't be bad? Remember, there were a large percentage of people who didn't think Ursan (and a lot of other broken things) was bad for the game on these very forums.

Thing with that statement is ArenaNet don't know them self what 4 more heroes would do to the game because until you actually put something into effect you won't know the out come, so in that respect until it's actually tried no one is qualified to say either way.

I still don't understand why people think having 7 heros will make players stop pugging or the other way around, ie: not having any heros.

i just realise something and I like to add.
on my other account, because it does not have all campaigns and expansion, as a result i don't have heros, and when I play that account, I still don't pug. I use hench, 7 of them, and they work just fine.

Now, the point I am trying to make is, how is having 7 hench different from 7 heros? In my opinion, it is still the same. lol, from actual players' experience (ie: mine, read above)

I didnt get the point of that at all really. If you saying H/H = 7heros, No.



still solo farming imo, does not matter how many people are in the group, you still getting the same amount of gym sets.


From what people have been saying on this thread 50%+ use H/H.

Why dont YOU give me proof of the game not being easy to many, Ive played with many, many, guilds pugs etc and its easy

All i see in the campfire is "what do you think of my build" 90% of the time, Just cause some 1 is asking what people think about their build does not mean the game is not easy to them, same for the Q&A threads.

The Gladiator arena is PvP, not Pve so dont even go there, it has nothing to do with how easy PVE is.



No all you need is 3 necros and a space bar, If you have a guild and as for a hero build the 1st thing some 1 will hand you is subway or discord its not hard to get 0 micro builds


Guild groups also take time to set up, and req that every 1 knows whats going on, where to go, how to work as a team "the big killer" etc. With H/H or 7heros its just add-n-go only 1 person needs to know the mission "or w/e your doing" dont need team work etc. A good guild group will always be more powerful than pugs or H/H but they you have to have 8 skilled players to run a good guild group or your basically running a pug

well they are the devs, so they can have their own servers and test stuff like this "i hope they do anyway" maybe they do think it made the game to easy and didnt want to add 7heros or tell people why cause they knew people would not accept it well.

Guilds = Human players default going to be easy.
PuGs = 50/50 chance your going to have an easy time of it.
H/H = Hard as rock you have to really know your stuff or your not going to get the best out of them, and even then it can take many attempts to get the job done and probably the only reason you do is pure blind luck.

Now before you reply again take your heroes kit them out properly and come back when you've VQ every area in the entire game, and completed all the missions - ALL - by yourself then come back and tell us it's easy, oh and while your at it the dungeons too, even with 7 heroes it ain't going to be easier but at least we'd have some bloody options, and would be a god send to those sodding missions in NF.

That includes hard mode as well by the way, until you've done that you've got no idea what your talking about.

That's, for instance, me. I completed all missions except Eternal Grove with bonus/masters and a buttload of quests, with just henches. Which could not be flagged.

Heroes made my gaming life a lot easier, BUT here's a thought: I've never been able to use team builds.
Not quite true. As having more heroes allows making team builds I am, in a very real sense, playing my heroes bar, and do get a new gaming experience even in the same old areas.
I mean, I've pretty much completed all there is to do on all three continents without ever getting to try a single actual team build. And this in a game which is all about team builds.
Not to me. I don't play computer games to socialize and mingle, I play for relaxation and divertion. When I play I don't like to have to take or give orders, or have to be understanding about other peoples need to eat dinner during missions, but I do want to be able to take a dinner break myself when I feel like it. I'm not anti-social, I'm just not social in games.
Heroes and henches were made for people like me, and it's people like me who use them.

That wasn't really my point. My point was that many people would vote to put anything in the game as long as it immediately benefits them and they wouldn't give a second thought to the consequences. I'm not saying 7 heroes would be neccessarily bad for the game, I'm just saying many people on these forums aren't qualified to judge what should be in the game. Even when something in the game shouldn't be in it, many people will defend it. Example: Soul Reaping.

Minority voting-out something too does not necessarily mean something is bad for game.

because otherwise you are arguing whether Argumentum ad populum is more or less valid than Appeal to motive

I think it should be obvious that the opinions of people who know how the game works are far more valuable than everyone elses'. Games are built on mechanics, if you don't understand them then what are you doing making suggestions.

Granted in this kind of situation it doesn't matter because this is a very 'meh, whatever' sort of change.

A.Net feels that Soul Reaping should be in GW PvE.
A.Net feels that SY! should be in GW PvE.
A.Net feels that one-shot kills should be in GW PvE.
A.Net feels that perma-SF should be in GW PvE.
...

I would love to have 7 heroes, mainly because I can't stand waiting for other people to join.
plus then i could have complete control over everyones build

It doesn't matter how many people wanted it, what matters is why, what it'll do, and what're the costs. With Ursan there was very, *very* little that it did for the game.

No I'm not, so we'll just proceed to the logical conclusion that you just dunno what you're talking about.

lolwut? A person playing with a human party will recieve the same if not more amount of loot than a person H/Hing.

lol okay

These forums, PvX wiki, OP PvE skills, consumables, lowering the difficulty of NM areas, existence and popularity of the wiki (repeat this one five billion times), etc. etc. etc.

Either way, neither of us are in much of a position to say how "easy or hard" the game is. You saying "DEH GAME ISH EASY" can be just as asinine as me saying Nightmare difficulty in the original Doom series using only a chainsaw is easy.

But given how popular the wiki is, how frequented the campfire and explorer leagues are, and the very vast gradual dumbing down of the game, I'm going to safely assume that most players are at least not terribly good at the game.

The majority of a playerbase is always going to be a little rough with their skill.

Uh when they're asking "what do you think of their build" their usually going there for advice to improve it. It's quite easily logical to assume if they're asking for improvement then they're having a bit of an uneasy time.

Hehe, I noticed how you didn't touch the Explorer's forums ; P

Oh.

Okay!

Well let me just empty my Necro's hero's bars and proceed to go out and win deh game 'cus that's all I need, amirite? Wait what's this I'm not winning tha game! I think I may actually need to get all of those skills, which'll be tough cus I is a Warrior! Screw this it's too much work! I'm goin back to PUGS!

When it's you and a guild group, you only have to worry about how you yourself play. When it's you with heroes, you have to worry about how all of them play. In a guild group you only have to worry about your bar. With you and 7 heroes you have to worry about everyone's bars.

This could pretty much keep going on. Either way, it's not so accessible.

well they are the devs, so they can have their own servers and test stuff like this "i hope they do anyway" maybe they do think it made the game to easy and didnt want to add 7heros or tell people why cause they knew people would not accept it well.[/QUOTE]

why dont you give me some reasons 7 heros are good, other than just saying im wrong?

so your saying its harder to play with H/H than it is with a guild? You may micro every thing but you 1 of few, everyone else uses 0 micro builds and just T space on every thing, you dont NEED to flag, and do any thing more than copy a build off pvx or guild chat.

yes builds are, any 1 thats in a guild knows atleast 1 person at some point has asked for a hero build, and some 1 has handed them subway or discord.




you can already make team builds with other players if thats all you really want to do.


I know its been said and a few times now but i have to say it again, if you want to play by yourself, cool, but your playing a online game where things like this effect more than yourself. If you really want to just play by yourself, play a SP game. There are many really good SP games out there, that you can put down if you need to go to dinner, which seems to kill guild wars for so many people.

If you soloed the game with henchmen why are 7heros needed. Making builds is not a good reason to add more heros, it will make the game easier for you to complete.

Abso-freaking-lutely!
Getting better at this game should be rewarded with more head-RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOs!

That's like removing Frenzy and Diversion (for example) out of high-end PvP!
Those guys are good enough to use Flail and Arcane Languor!

If we already have finish the game (and it's easy we all know) what else to do ??

-Farm (get's boring)
-Help friends (not all friends are on at the same time i an)
-Pvp ? not for me. Discrimination world ftl.
-High end stuff (doa, fow, uw, etc..) Does my Dervish or my Ritualist or my Mesmer will be in demand ?? mmmmmh.

-7 heroes and try out some builds, do elite area with my heroes, Bring 6 heroes to help out a friend that only has prophecies ?

Why not ???

This thread have been a debate if 7 heroes are good or bad. All it can do is add fun to the ppl that wants them.

Ppl that don't want them can still continue the way they do.

"It will kill pug is not an argument"

But I don't want to play with other players.

And as I've repeatedly pointed out, your argument is...
1) Based on a fallacy: "online" is not equal to "multiplayer".
2) Irrelevant: Guild Wars is by ArenaNet design intentionally possible to play from start to finish as a pretty good single-player RPG.

Actually, there isn't. The last big-ticket cRPG I played was Oblivion, and frankly it stinks compared to GW. The shortage of even halfway decent cRPGs is why I started playing GW in the first place.

They're not. They're needed for me to make team builds. Which would be fun as that's what the game is about.

I haven't went back and read this entire thread, and I'm certain others have said the same thing, I just want to put my $.02 in.

Scenario: Its a Thursday night, I'm bored, college has worn my brain thin and I need some relaxing gaming time. So, I figure hey! I'll jump in and do some Underworld play. I get in, and there are only farmers, and elitist groups wanting speed clears, etc. So, I put in my three best heroes and give it a go. If its Normal mode, it plays like HM. Slow, lots of pressure and probably deaths. If its hard mode, well, I don't get very far before I have to get to bed.

Seven heroes would fix this problem, decent synergy builds and I can enjoy a few hours of fun doing hard areas, hard mode elite areas, etc. Sure this would discourage PUG play, but has anyone really paid a lot of attention anymore? Most people who PUG are in the same guild, or a tight clique anyway. Do it or don't, it isn't going to change much. Those who play with others still will, those who can't get into or find groups still won't.

My $.02

Precisely! And we see many of them, such as JDRyder, in this very thread, complaining about the idea of 7 heroes (which would not affect other players at all) for the sole reason of trying to reduce the fun that other players have. It seems immature and unnecessarily hateful to me, but there it is - people not qualified to judge what should be in the game are rejecting the idea of 7-hero parties for no valid reason.

(Yes, there have been many reasons not to have 7 heroes, none of them valid.)

Every day I realize more and more how half assed this game really is, give me my 7 hero option please, after all the work I did on the hall of monuments and all the grinding and putting up with people, I don't think I have it in me for gw2 unless I see something like this implemented.

Stop trying to get me to make pugs ANET I refuse to do it anymore.

I think the unusable imp is the last straw for me, This is just a mess.

Sure.

-Allows for a much richer, deeper, and ultimately more customizable gaming experience for those who prefer to play with heroes.
-Removes the need to rely on henchmen which, as you are against, provide an unfair and unlogical level of gaming difficulty.
-Opens up to thousands of more build options.
-Provides a much easier and fulfilling game for those who are knowledgeable with the current game of Guild Wars while not helping those who are not.
-Provides all of these things while doing little to no harm to PUGs.

It's less a matter of "why?" and more a matter of "why not?".

Yeup.
-You don't have to set up 3 additional builds.
-You don't have to set up 3 additional characters.
-You don't have to be mindful of what your additional 3 characters are doing.
-You need only worry about what you yourself are doing.

This isn't saying that H/H is hard. It's not saying that H/H is easy. It's saying that playing in a group with guildees is easer than playing with yourself.

Hay sup read over every single point I've made about unlock packs, the online store, and the amount of time it takes to unlock all those skills, m'kay? Easy for you =/= easy for everyone.

Because every guild is totally just like yours, amirite?

Warning: Upier logic has entered the thread. Be mindful of epic win and epic arguments, and of the thread exploding.

warrior in AB using Meteor Shower + Beds of Coals ...

try to beds of coals me, so i let him, then i run out of the bed of coal, he follow, severed my artery, he gets kill while casting meteor shower ... try look into the thread funniest build you've seen. and you know how many noobs are still out there "struggling" or having fun, who knows.

Players who don't consider the game to be easy usually find it that way because they're doing something horribly wrong. Once you get past the major stumbling block of finding out which of the thousand-plus skills are actually useful, that tends to clear up. You don't really need to be 'skilled' so long as you're set up well, which is what sites like the Wiki help with.

Saying GW is hard because bad players have trouble is like saying American High School is hard because of the drop-out rates. It's just not solid evidence.

This is what I love-absolutely love-about Heroes. Every time I set out, before leaving town or outpost, I pick the heroes I take with me, usually Dunkaro and Olias. the third is entirely contingent upon what I'm going to be facing.

Today, for example, I walked from Divinity Coast, to ToA. Since there were lots of Undead in the area, I took Ogden too, set up as a Smiter. The other two positions were taken by Henchies; Stefan, and Dunham. I would've been happier, though, if I could've replaced Stefan with Koss, and maybe added an extra Hero, either Acolyte Sousuke, or General Morgahn...

Now, I don't consider myself a really good player. I'm usually slow when it comes to being caught flat-footed. But I put a lot of time and consideration into my Heroes' Skills, Armor, Weapons, and Attributes, and they didn't let me down. I made it to ToA without even dying once.

More to the point, I had great amounts of fun picking out the Heroes to use on this particular run, and also had fun doing a little micro-ing when necessary.

I also PUG, and play with Guildies, and I don't really have any complaint with either option. But, as other players have said, there are going to be times when that just isn't an option, for whatever reason. Maybe no one's around at the only time you have free to play. and, there are also times when I really don't want to socialize. I just want to take my frustrations out on hapless Monsters.

Either way, 7 heroes would be great!

Vandevere

titles, gearing out your toons with fow armor and tormented weps, new char or new game


umm isn't Copway not like the most used build for DoA now?


Its more than that and the only reason im hearing for adding 7heros is "to make builds"


so play a SP game


So do you play CSS or CoD4 online to not play with other players? Guild was IS a multiplayer game, that you can solo in but its still a multiplayer game


thats only 1 game, have you played any of Biowears? KoToR 1-2 "and 3 soon i think" Mass effect "and will have a 2nd soon" all good SP games that you can get 200-1000hrs out of.


Not a reason to add 7heros.

which will get old fast.


No, I said if they are so shitty and you hate playing with them so much, YOU remove them. The need to rely on henchmen keeps it some what balanced, cause you can only make 3 builds that heros are OP with other that 7.

Not really

not for long you'll get bored with it before you know it, and how is not helping people who do not know about GW a good thing

Yes it will, there will be OP team builds out the 1st few days for 7heros, and as always people will use them cause its the easier way, does not matter how good they are really cause the heros are playing for them.





How?



what points? you said that people dont like to put their numbers on the internet, but millions of people still do it every day



you dont need a guild like TAM to know hero builds from pvx, any 1 can know them if you were to go up to a random player and asked for a hero team build 50%+ of the time they are going to give you subway or discord.

Its AB who cares? Even Tam has been known to at times be like

Loki: Hai guild wanna AB?
Me: sure what do we need
Tyla: im so running a monk with Bulls and crushing
Loki: if your running that im running crip storm for lulz
Trubs: GUMBALLS!
Mike: LoL AB, Look at the new hammer I just got
Me: ummm, f*** it im running ranger i guess.
Sigh: hai guys you still need 1 for AB?
Trubs: GUMBALLS!
every1: sure what you coming as?
Sigh: umm if lokis running crip storm im running HH warrior, for the lulz
Trubs: GUMBALLS!
evly: why are you 2 in the guild? noobs
Josh: sup?
Mike: hai guys bogroots?
Every1: no we are ABing /shoo "bet you didnt see that coming lawlz"
Mike: o the fagotree.
Loki: lawlz im a crip storm warrior
Tyla: i missed my bullz D:
Sigh lololol they cant kill me "he really has ran HH war and killed 5 people that were trying to kill him"
Me: lulz D-shot that guys rof.

Basically you just want what you want JDRyder? Regardless what other players wants.

for instant, i've read some of the posts where you says hench and heros are suicidal, I take that to mean they are useless, which, would make it hard in the game, wouldn't it? to be able to control a bunch of suicidal AI pixels characters, basically like playing 4x simultaneously if you micro manage your heros. if there are 7 heros i suppose i will be playing 7x simultaneously, micro-managing them, yes i do do that. micro manage my heros. how is that easy?

However, all this while, you've been saying that giving the players 7 heros are gonna make the game too easy and why should we be given that, where infact, you yourself say h/h are suicidal.

if you base your argument on the above, then why should you get to pug? If like you yourself said, in later post, that you pug, with guildie etc and its easy. if its easy, they why should you have that given to you?

correct me if i am wrong when I say you you said:
1) its hard to h/h, because they are suicidal
2) pug are challenging
3) h/h makes game easy
4) pugs are easy

so which one is it?

you say: "Its AB who cares?"

the answers is: Lots of people! (Or you won't see the lines pushing back and forth between the luxon/kurziks border everyday.)

Besides, "who cares" isn't the point, its telling you there are lots of players still don't find the game easy. You ask for example and there i gave you. Do you really think a warrior who try to cast meteor shower is finding the game easy?

PS: that conversation you included just show us the general "PUG" population that you so want to force player to play with. Nothing more.

Well there are ways of getting even if they don't manipulate the own code to do it, just requires a little effort from (maybe) me, trouble is if the masses start using it then it could have an effect on the servers, as a command would be constantly sent every say half millisecond or so to follow X player number, might have to put a few JMP calls into the binary code to make it do certain things too, but then I'm not quite sure I want to risk my accounts over this, maybe if I had a couple spare and another IP account or I masqueraded with this one maybe but it'd be a very risky proposition, I'm pretty darn sure that ANet don't want me hacking into there client software.

You'd need to hack because of the 4th player you need to obtain data to make it act like a hero despite it being human, like current health/energy which moves about memory that is a given there not that dumb but modifying your energy client side won't have any effect because your real data is stored server side, so maybe they allocated the structure statically, found that out with Cheat Engine /rank 100 FTW lol.

If someone finds the game difficult because they suck, their opinion regarding the difficulty is irrelevant. If a player fully understands and practices good play, and it is still difficult, then it may be that the game is actually hard.

I hate to sound harsh, but only decent players are capable of having an objective opinion about the difficulty of a game, since they're not shackled by their own incompetence.

Games are designed and balanced towards the upper end of player ability. If someone has trouble below that, it's not the job of the developer to compensate.

I can answer that for you:
In a group with guildmates you literally OWN all missions and vanquishes. That's because guildmates know you, your playing style, and you know theirs. You can discuss builds before entering any mission, and fill up remaining spots with heroes with the appropriate build.

In a H/H group you can only use 3 heroes which you can set up yourself, using only YOUR knowledge of the mission/area/whatever. Of course there is wiki and guru etc, but not everyone is as acquainted[sp?] with those as you are. So you're stuck with in most cases limited knowledge, 3 heroes, and 4 henchmen that can't be customized.

Furthermore, guildmates can use PvE skills. Big point there. Makes PvE much much easier.

I'd say that makes it pretty clear how playing with guildmates can be a LOT more easy than playing with H/H. And I can concur from personal experience. I absolutely hate missions like Dzagonur Bastion, Moddok Crevice, Grand Court of Sebelkeh, Jennur's Horde, simply because I simply can't seem to master them with H/H. Hell, sometimes I can't even finish them at all. Sure, that might mean I'm not the greatest GW player around, but I'm a casual gamer. I have a full-time job, a busy social life, and whatnot. GW fills my spare hours of free time, so I'm your average Joe playing GW. It's pretty obvious how playing with H/H can be pretty frustrating to people like myself sometimes.

Don't argue from your single point of view JDRyder. YOU might be as efficient with H/H as a full guild-team, but not everyone is. So 7 heroes would make things easier, but still not ruin the game. Even with 7 heroes, most people need guildies or friends to help out.

Another reason why I'd like 7 heroes: The game is slowly dying. Outposts are empty nowadays. If not for the 3 heroes you can bring now, the game would be dead and buried long ago. So why not allow 7 heroes now?

oh and btw: I have NO idea wtf you're talking about in that last guild-discussion bit. Try using words next time.

I don't agree. I do agree that decent players are the ones capable of giving a relevant opinion. Everyone can have an objective opinion.
And I think the developers created HM for the upper end players. NM is for the masses. So the masses are allowed to have an opinion.

I am.
Do you play bioshock for the socializing? We're talking GW here.
No, it's a multiplayer game to you.
To me it's a single player game with the added advantages of being continuously updated and having multiplayer areas where I can socialize if I feel the need to.
Yes, I have played through all of them except Mass Effect. They're all at least a year old, and none of them had content for anywhere near 100 hours.
By contrast, I've probably spent 300-400 hours in the prophecies campaign alone.
Standard cRPG's are short, and the good ones are few and far between. So thank god for GW.
What? I'm suggesting a simple way to greatly improve the single-player experience by adding depth & variation to it. Why would that need justification?
You really should get to grips with the concep that other people play the game differently, and for other reasons, and enjoy different aspects of it, than you.

What's your point? You act as if Anet hasn't screwed up about 8908098 times over the years. Not to mention you missed my point. I am simply saying that these forums can't judge what is good for the game, and pre nerf soul reaping is a perfect example of that.

Also not to mention Anet feels that 7 heroes shouldn't be in the game...GG?

This right here is why I think the whole situation is laughable. If anybody bought a game called GUILD Wars that promoted competition and socializing and they expected to play a single player RPG, than they are clearly the worst shoppers in the history of mankind. The direction this game has gone is pitiful. To me Guild Wars has always been a multiplayer game, and the fact that people want it to be completely single player ruins it for me. I'd rather load up a single player console RPG.