Sab's 3 Necro Hero build in action in EotN
Big_Iron
I did DDF with this build and breezed through. Where many PuGs have failed, I coasted. Thanks Sab!
Chthon
If this was the sort of "soul reaping abuse" that "necessitated" the SR nerf, I can't help but be even more pissed about it.
These builds aren't bad, but they aren't exactly fantastic or overpowered either.
Enticed by the claims of "me and my friend did Thommis in 17 min with these heroes," I decided to do Justicar Thommis as a test run, and I found:The MB is too fragile. Despite the N/Rt healer, his own heals, myself as a heal monk, and Lina on prot, he consistently drew aggro and died. And when he died, the whole offense collapsed, forcing us to retreat. At least for 8-man teams, I'd probably take all the heal off him, set him as a pure MB, and make sure he's got Taste of Death. The healer has serious AI issues, some of which can be fixed with microing, and some of which can't:Seems she won't use SoLS if set to "avoid combat" and tries to wand and tank a la Alesia and generally draws aggro if set to "defend." Casts Life randomly while traveling, leaving it recharging when we actually hit a battle. Casts ashpot frequently (on recharge?) and holds it for maximum length without regard to what it does to her energy. Seems to prioritize straight heals over weapons. The old %-healing AI problem -- overheals a lot b/c it use straight heals while target's health is still too high. Especially bad since the the situations where it's overhealing with the straight heals would be perfect for using the weapons.
To reiterate: These builds aren't bad. In fact, they're good. They just aren't the be-all-end-all of PvE builds a lot of people seem to think they are.
These builds aren't bad, but they aren't exactly fantastic or overpowered either.
Enticed by the claims of "me and my friend did Thommis in 17 min with these heroes," I decided to do Justicar Thommis as a test run, and I found:The MB is too fragile. Despite the N/Rt healer, his own heals, myself as a heal monk, and Lina on prot, he consistently drew aggro and died. And when he died, the whole offense collapsed, forcing us to retreat. At least for 8-man teams, I'd probably take all the heal off him, set him as a pure MB, and make sure he's got Taste of Death. The healer has serious AI issues, some of which can be fixed with microing, and some of which can't:Seems she won't use SoLS if set to "avoid combat" and tries to wand and tank a la Alesia and generally draws aggro if set to "defend." Casts Life randomly while traveling, leaving it recharging when we actually hit a battle. Casts ashpot frequently (on recharge?) and holds it for maximum length without regard to what it does to her energy. Seems to prioritize straight heals over weapons. The old %-healing AI problem -- overheals a lot b/c it use straight heals while target's health is still too high. Especially bad since the the situations where it's overhealing with the straight heals would be perfect for using the weapons.
To reiterate: These builds aren't bad. In fact, they're good. They just aren't the be-all-end-all of PvE builds a lot of people seem to think they are.
glountz
What's good about these builds is that you can breeze through normal mode by C-spacing.
What's wrong is that you'll have real trouble as soon as you'll try some HM areas /endgame areas. No hex removal, no prot, means HM is undoable without a solid prot monk.
Additionnaly this build is essentially based on SR triggering through minions which can be rare in some areas and quite fragile caused wiped easily in HM.
And when you take this into the equation you actually need less these half healers and more painful damagers and efficient protters. If minions are disintegrated more thant they are created, than the whole build fail.
Take Sab's build for normal mode and C-Space.
You'll have to think more for some HM areas (especially the ones lacking corpses).
What's wrong is that you'll have real trouble as soon as you'll try some HM areas /endgame areas. No hex removal, no prot, means HM is undoable without a solid prot monk.
Additionnaly this build is essentially based on SR triggering through minions which can be rare in some areas and quite fragile caused wiped easily in HM.
And when you take this into the equation you actually need less these half healers and more painful damagers and efficient protters. If minions are disintegrated more thant they are created, than the whole build fail.
Take Sab's build for normal mode and C-Space.
You'll have to think more for some HM areas (especially the ones lacking corpses).
Dr Strangelove
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chthon
Quote: Originally Posted by Chthon Enticed by the claims of "me and my friend did Thommis in 17 min with these heroes," I decided to do Justicar Thommis as a test run, and I found:The MB is too fragile. Despite the N/Rt healer, his own heals, myself as a heal monk, and Lina on prot, he consistently drew aggro and died. And when he died, the whole offense collapsed, forcing us to retreat. At least for 8-man teams, I'd probably take all the heal off him, set him as a pure MB, and make sure he's got Taste of Death. The healer has serious AI issues, some of which can be fixed with microing, and some of which can't:Seems she won't use SoLS if set to "avoid combat" and tries to wand and tank a la Alesia and generally draws aggro if set to "defend." Casts Life randomly while traveling, leaving it recharging when we actually hit a battle. Casts ashpot frequently (on recharge?) and holds it for maximum length without regard to what it does to her energy. Seems to prioritize straight heals over weapons. The old %-healing AI problem -- overheals a lot b/c it use straight heals while target's health is still too high. Especially bad since the the situations where it's overhealing with the straight heals would be perfect for using the weapons. As for the rest, it's generally ok if the necros draw aggro. The idea is that with the piles of healing, it's really hard to die to anything except massive AoE. I believe the original jaggedbonesway included a spirit spammer, which really helps out with that, although it no longer has the awesome synergy with the necros.
The problems with rit skills are kinda a constant. The AI on rit skills is unbelievably bad, they don't seem to understand any of the triggers or multiple uses of skills. Same deal with assassin AI, it can't do anything but lead->offhand->dual.
bungusmaximus
Quote:
Originally Posted by glountz
You'll have to think more for some HM areas Hmm I could get around that pretty easily with this build, but I just had to stick the hex remove on other characters. Did Tomb of Primeval Kings in hard mode with the zaishen hench, 2 N/rt healers, and Olias as bomber. I gave Olias and myself a hex remove skill and stuff went smoothly.
However, it's true that it doesn't work anywhere, but that's only a good thing ImO, there's no build at all that works flawlessly everywhere.
RTSFirebat
Well gave this a go in Fort Ranik HM, 4 man mission which I've had nothing but bad luck with. While there was a couple of deaths my 3 hench necros with me doing Flaming Arrow + interrupts handled the mission without any issues at all.
Good build
Good build
Mickey
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTSFirebat
Well gave this a go in Fort Ranik HM, 4 man mission which I've had nothing but bad luck with. While there was a couple of deaths my 3 hench necros with me doing Flaming Arrow + interrupts handled the mission without any issues at all.
Good build Flaming Arrow? Do you mean Burning Arrow?
Good build Flaming Arrow? Do you mean Burning Arrow?
fujin
Love the build, I've only had the MM die once which was in the beginning where he had no minions
kade
ok thanks for the info, gonna give this another shot
Squishy ftw
Quote:
Originally Posted by glountz
What's good about these builds is that you can breeze through normal mode by C-spacing.
Erm, isnt it like that with pretty much every somewhat decent party setup ?
Abbel Calima
Tried Glint's Challenge with this build, with succes!
RTSFirebat
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickey
Flaming Arrow? Do you mean Burning Arrow?
No I mean Barrage + Conjure Flame.
wonderwyrm
did glints challenge as well with this build, got a little harry on wave 4, no minions, but all the destroyers bunched in 1 part + derv + curse encro, was over pretty quick heh
nec trio works like a charm
nec trio works like a charm
Hengis
Great builds!
I have equiped all of my Heros with Brotherhood armour now using these builds, me playing splinter/barrage/pain-inverter, both ele hench and both monk hench.
Waiting for the nerf now...
I have equiped all of my Heros with Brotherhood armour now using these builds, me playing splinter/barrage/pain-inverter, both ele hench and both monk hench.
Waiting for the nerf now...
bungusmaximus
What makes you think they will nerf this? it's just a very good build that's all, but not invincible. In some areas you still get creamed if you don't tweak a little by yourself.
Sab
Because the devs love nerfing builds for no reason. -.o
In all seriousness though, the only things they might touch are Soul Reaping and Resto heals, and that'd be for PvP reasons. It doesn't really matter though, you'd be able to work around that with a few skill changes.
In all seriousness though, the only things they might touch are Soul Reaping and Resto heals, and that'd be for PvP reasons. It doesn't really matter though, you'd be able to work around that with a few skill changes.
lakatz
Quote:
Originally Posted by Free Wind
Quote:
If you have lots of energy all the time then you doing something wrong. Energy in this game is to be converted into dealing damage or negating damage, period
...9 min first boss in slaver's...
Do I hear 8? 8 min 8 min 8 min... anyone? I have 9 min... do I hear 8?
Curse You
I used this build for Justiciar Thommis and was able to clear it relatively easily. I went as the SS and took a BHA ranger. Would have been faster if I hadn't got stuck in an almost never ending fight with some Dwarfs that kept resurrecting one another.
Molock
You play way too much -_-
Anyway, ya looks like a decent build XD MYSTERYouse
First, I would like to thank Sab for this build. I dont know most of the proffesions, so I am mostly searching for builds on forums which suits my current needs.
3xN/Rt was/is my current favorite herobuild which I use while doing my vanquishing. I did most of the 4man missions with this party setup without any major problems (btw. my profession Ele). You can do nearly everything with this setup, I find it very helpfull for vanquishing (Canthan Jade Sea, Echovald Forrest especially), 3 days ago I vanquished even Mineral Springs while Titan quest was active (lvl. 30 titans ... yay!) Only problem I faced till now are areas packed with lot of Ice Imps where I am without any real tank which would catch initial agro for me (S. Shiverpeaks). Areas without corpses are another issue, where I swap MM for another Curse necro as suggested. Even Maguuma Jungle with minion stealing is becoming very funny when you equip your MM with Verratas Gaze (or Aura which I use in critical situation manually) This build canbe very helpfull for players which are doing things on their own or dont find help in their Guilds/Allys or simply want to skip the party/build spam and want to go straight into action. There is no best herobuild in GW, but this one is very close to it in my eyes. One more time, thx Sab! holix
Quote:
Originally Posted by MYSTERYouse
I did most of the 4man missions with this party setup without any major problems (btw. my profession Ele)
What build do u run as ele?
MYSTERYouse
Quote:
Originally Posted by holix
What build do u run as ele?
Also I am running SF nearly everywhere with 6 basic skills
Searing Flames Glowing Gaze Liquid Flame Glyph of Sacrifice Meteor Shower Fire Attunement XXX XXX The last two skills I choose depending on the area/mobs I face, most of the time Inspired Enchantment, Mantra of xxx from Mesmer line(I like to steal Mark of Protection from Doloyaks), Smite Hex, Protective Spirit (using for keeping myself alive while pulling) from Monk line or just some of the PvE skills (mostly Youre all weaklings! which adds nice Weakness when I have +33% Weakness mod on my weapon). mcsumo
Well.....WOW!!
My mate and I just ripped through FOW last night. I tweaked my heroes' builds since I figured double SS and weapon spells was a waste. Because we weren't sure what happened with which quests, we ran round and killed everything first. Took about 2 hours. Then we went through completing all the quests 1 by 1. Total of 3 to 3 and a half hours for eternal conqueror of FOW. Now for the UW. Jensy
Running the SS build myself + Oli (MM) and Livia (Rest), + Tahlkora, I vanquished the first four man area of NF in less than an hour. No deaths, nobody even came close to dying
So yeah, it works in that 4 man area, anyway. Plan on trying some of the 4 man missions later on. Friends and I guess is that if SR is nerfed (again), it will be to remove the energy gain from spirits. And that's probably only because of PvP. Vizzi
I did okay using Sab's new version in Thommis's dungeon. Had a few wipes, but finished with good results.
But now I am getting my arse handed to me in Selvetarm. I can't even get to the Dungeon Key in the first area. Using the usual compliment of henchies. Mhenlo Lina Herta Zho MoW on Curses Duty Olias on MM Livia on Resto and My Necro on Curses I tried subbing the Necro's with Smiting monks and all that got me was a trip back to Umbral with my tail between me legs. Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated, as this is my last dungeon to complete for my dungeon guide. and Thanks Sab for a wonderful and fun team build to play,. and also everyone else with there great tweaks and suggestions. this is a great thread overall. Zaxan Razor
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizzi
I did okay using Sab's new version in Thommis's dungeon. Had a few wipes, but finished with good results.
But now I am getting my arse handed to me in Selvetarm. I can't even get to the Dungeon Key in the first area. Using the usual compliment of henchies. Mhenlo Lina Herta Zho MoW on Curses Duty Olias on MM Livia on Resto and My Necro on Curses I tried subbing the Necro's with Smiting monks and all that got me was a trip back to Umbral with my tail between me legs. Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated, as this is my last dungeon to complete for my dungeon guide. and Thanks Sab for a wonderful and fun team build to play,. and also everyone else with there great tweaks and suggestions. this is a great thread overall. Take Cynn instead of Zho imho, you'll kill things much quicker, and make things scatter a bit, which relieves quite some pressure on your healing h/h. novawhiz
To OP: Would you please post what the human monk (miss something) and the gwen hero are runing. Ty
Im not getting how this is synergized at all. I thought the whole synergy was minions+barbs but you dont have barbs.... what am i missing here... Also, are these builds good for any dungeon like shards of orr or chathedral of flames or only for Slayers Exile. Jensy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizzi
Using the usual compliment of henchies. Mhenlo Lina Herta Zho MoW on Curses Duty Olias on MM Livia on Resto and My Necro on Curses I'd dump one of the hero necs (MoW, since you run curses yourself) and take a hero monk as LoDProt. That should be all you need as far as healing goes, and you can dump the two hench monks for more damage. The monks likely aren't putting out enough damage to make a difference against the tougher mobs down there. Taking Cynn, Herta, Zho and possibly one of the warriors should help. At least, this was true for me when I ran an 8-man team (I'm a curses nec myself). Bewn
Quote:
Originally Posted by novawhiz
Im not getting how this is synergized at all.
I thought the whole synergy was minions+barbs but you dont have barbs.... what am i missing here... first of all, you're obviously missing the edit button the Synergy lies in the Necro's primary attribute. Due to the minions the Heros have nearly unlimited energy. Psychology
Quote:
Originally Posted by novawhiz
Also, are these builds good for any dungeon like shards of orr or chathedral of flames or only for Slayers Exile.
Yes,i tried Justiciar Thommis's dungeon and Selvetarm's dungeon with the build and it worked fine,although in forgewights dungeon i got riped apart,that is to be expected though,sf and sh destroyed h/h as they stood still.
I took Herta,Cynn,Mehnlo and the prot henchmen for slavers if it makes a difference. novawhiz
so the synergy is that the minions are dying because the minion hero isnt using blood of master????What??
Even so, what so great about an endless energy ss necro?? I guess WoR N/Rit is good but im not seing how this is such and amazing build... Oh well i guess ill have to try it for me self. Why not go N/Me for double SS? Sab
Quote:
Originally Posted by novawhiz
so the synergy is that the minions are dying because the minion hero isnt using blood of master????What??
Even so, what so great about an endless energy ss necro?? I guess WoR N/Rit is good but im not seing how this is such and amazing build... Oh well i guess ill have to try it for me self. Why not go N/Me for double SS? Blood of the Master is to keep minions alive between battles. The good thing about an SS Necro with infinite energy is the infinite energy. And it's not an amazing build, people have been using this in HA for a long time. You can echo SS if you want, but you'll need to disable echo and micro it yourself. Free Wind
Quote:
Originally Posted by novawhiz
|
If you have full energy you're either not doing much damage, not preventing it effieciently or you have a bad build (long recharging skills for example)
Quote:
Originally Posted by novawhiz
Why not go N/Me for double SS?
Heroes cant use archaine echo - they will echo any random spell, they dont 'understand' echo is for important spells
novawhiz
im not stupid..
i wasnt asking whats so great about a character with infinite energy i was asking specificyl about an SS Necro. SSing does deal quite a good amount of dmg but would a N/E high powered nuker with infinite energy deal substantially more damage... RTSFirebat
I've added the updated build to the first post, because I had no idea Sab has changed it Also edited title a bit as well.
Free Wind
Quote:
Originally Posted by RTSFirebat
I've added the updated build to the first post, because I had no idea Sab has changed it Also edited title a bit as well.
The exact skill-by-skill builds are not important, the important thing I took from Sab's post was the necro-any synergy. As you can see, the builds i was using there were already modified a bit by me, more over, I started using N/Ele (warder) there as well as you can see on one of the attached screenshots
bungusmaximus
Quote:
Originally Posted by novawhiz
SSing does deal quite a good amount of dmg but would a N/E high powered nuker with infinite energy deal substantially more damage...
no, a well equipped ele never runs out of energy, same as the necro, thanx to attunements, and eles do more damage then necro/eles. In many cases however, ss necros do more damage then eles to begin with.
RTSFirebat
Quote:
Originally Posted by Free Wind
The exact skill-by-skill builds are not important, the important thing I took from Sab's post was the necro-any synergy. As you can see, the builds i was using there were already modified a bit by me, more over, I started using N/Ele (warder) there as well as you can see on one of the attached screenshots
Still had to change the title. To be honest I'm finding it difficult to keep this thread going in this section of the forums, since it a "build" discussion, so adding the build info and the point that you use it in EotN made it a safer bet.
That as I'm not sure about other people, but I hate having to look in another thread to get the info the original thread is commenting on. Linking sometimes is just plain lazy. Snow Bunny
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gigashadow
I have a question about the N/Rt; is there any particular reason for the self-defensive skill Protective Was Kaolai? Is this just to make him a more highly armored target to avoid agro? The thing I don't like about it is that holding the item drops his maximum energy significantly (as well as the health, and any HSR/HCT or health bonuses conferred by his caster weapon), so he is less able to absorb the large bursts of incoming energy.
'Cause it's close to LoD an very sexy
Vizzi
Quote:
Originally Posted by pansy malfoy
I'd dump one of the hero necs (MoW, since you run curses yourself) and take a hero monk as LoDProt. That should be all you need as far as healing goes, and you can dump the two hench monks for more damage. The monks likely aren't putting out enough damage to make a difference against the tougher mobs down there. Taking Cynn, Herta, Zho and possibly one of the warriors should help. At least, this was true for me when I ran an 8-man team (I'm a curses nec myself).
Thanks very much for the suggestion. I am going to be giving it another go this weekend and I will definitely try this suggestion. May I inquire as to how you have your LoDProt Monk set up? <I know no touch skills,.. damn Mhenlo > |