Sab's 3 Necro Hero build in action in EotN
strcpy
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Originally Posted by cyber88
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This is terribly redundant. Zho is a waste on most azuran areas (raptors and similars galore), Lo Sha is marginally useful on caster areas (ice imps/etc).
Quote: Originally Posted by ender6 2) Grab aggro in a safe fashion. Either you, or a flagged hero, can act as a puller, forcing the AI to drop AoE dmg in an innocuous fashion. That's true. One nice way of doing it is using Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support, and then charging in while the enemy is being pummeled by it
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Originally Posted by mcsumo
And WTH are you talking about, strcpy? If you flag them into a group of flameshielders they will die since they are too stupid to run from big rocks landing on their head. If you flag them to where 3 Quetzl tengu patrols converge they will die. It is not possible for the player to join in the fight and make them lose. It is still about aggro control and playing well.
I'm talking about most of the game - sure you aggro three full HM groups and you will die (good luck with consistently winning that one with a group of experienced humans) or you pick one of the few groups that totally have the H/H number. However, the vast majority of the games you can flag them and walk away. I had hoped that the people reading what I wrote are smart enough to realize what a "strawman argument" is and try not to go there, but alas I seem to be proven wrong again and again.
I hate PvP, but dang if sometimes I can't but help agree with their elitists on PvE players from time to time. I always wonder how someone got all these wonderful titles yet can not handle these situations. I suppose that is why those same people have to come on here when there is a VERY minor skill balance to see if there are any changes. Cobalt
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Originally Posted by ender6
Actually Mhenlo now uses WoH (as of Tuesday 11/13/2007):
http://www.guildwars.com/support/gameupdates/ Miscellaneous Changed the elite skill used by the henchman Mhenlo in Eye of the North to Word of Healing. Yes but at the same time they nerft WoH which kinda too the edge off previous buff and any advantage switching him to it thus he is really no better than he ever was. It is Anet, they are not going to give us anything good and let us keep it.
I D E L E T E D I
WoH is still very usable on a healing monk.
furanshisuko
do runes and insignias really matter cuase i think if we get low lvls minions they die fast and get more energy? :P
cyber88
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Originally Posted by Sheriff
As I tell many "new" players... relying on base classes only is 99% of the times a baaaaaad idea.
Be inovative! Play a smiter, bring Sab's team build, leave the healing hench at home (imho LoD nerf makes Mhenlo less useful than Lina), and by "ele hench" I sure hope you mean Herta, not Cynn. BTW I'd also recommend Lo Sha for melee-heavy areas or Zho for caster-heavy areas. LOL. In case you don't know my previous posts in other threads. Prior to using Sab's build. I play the smiter best. When I charge in with Sab's build, I hav little problem as a smiter. It is only when the ele boss is kicking shit out of me that I take out N/Rt healer & take the role of healer then taking a a hard interupt Ranger. Yes. I take Herta because her wards are useful as I can deal damage as a smiter (which I hit damn hard) I am currently vanquishing Cantha as I have finished Elona & Tyria. Hmmzzz....I see your recomendations after reviewing the henchies setup & I am impress. BTW I got the title "noob" from PUGs because I play smiter. 
mcsumo
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Originally Posted by strcpy
I hate PvP, but dang if sometimes I can't but help agree with their elitists on PvE players from time to time. I always wonder how someone got all these wonderful titles yet can not handle these situations. I suppose that is why those same people have to come on here when there is a VERY minor skill balance to see if there are any changes. Oh and I have dealt with those who bring up 'strawman arguments' before. They always seem so wrapped up in their sanctimonious sense of self superiority, compared to the entire human race, that no argument works. Thus the simplest and most effective way of saying what needs to be said is 'Stop being a dick'
Sheriff
BTW I'm not sure if ANET did this on purpose since GWEN is on a "prophecies" map, but they lost a good chance of teaching new players how to play non-basic classes.
This was the first time ANET gave us "perfect" henchmen. Great builds, great elites... base classes. In some cases duplicates, like rangers, monks and warriors. This is another reason why less experienced players are still relying on monks instead of paragons and ritualists for healing, elementalists instead of ritualists for damage, etc ANET should have added an henchman for each of the non base classes, with good quality elites and builds.
ender6
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Originally Posted by Cobalt
Yes but at the same time they nerft WoH which kinda too the edge off previous buff and any advantage switching him to it thus he is really no better than he ever was.
It is Anet, they are not going to give us anything good and let us keep it. Oh no, they shaved 20pts of healing power off of WoH. Yep time to throw in the towel. If anything the fact that he no longer has a pre-Nerf LoD to use has hurt his effectiveness--but the simple fact of the matter is that HM is very manageable, even if you are forced to go with Hench Monks. So far, for the latter part of this thread I have heard ppl voice their concerns over AoE dmg, and how hard it is to handle. The proper response isn't to attempt to heal through it, but rather avoid it all together. If you are facing a group that uses AoE dmg, shut it down or misdirect it. 1) Always Bring Zho and Illusionist Hench (for EotN). If possible bring an interrupter Hero. Also you can often slip in Leech Signet/Power Drain onto hero skillbars acting as e-mgnt + interrupts. 2) Grab aggro in a safe fashion. Either you, or a flagged hero, can act as a puller, forcing the AI to drop AoE dmg in an innocuous fashion. 3) Lastly, alot of ppl think that Sab's necro build is the cornerstone to doing everything in HM. Think of his build as a primer and adjust it accordingly to reflect the areas you are PvE'ing in. my 2cents...
strcpy
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Originally Posted by mcsumo
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What I wrote wasn't particularly focused on this build - I didn't find it as great as others did either. It's been a nice change to goof off with though. For the most part what I said was true - what they are doing is wrong is getting in the way of the H/H instead of helping them as they can win nearly every single time by flagging them ahead and watching (make you happy now?). Plus that was in response to a specific situation in which it *did* work every single time.
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Oh and I have dealt with those who bring up 'strawman arguments' before. They always seem so wrapped up in their sanctimonious sense of self superiority, compared to the entire human race, that no argument works. Thus the simplest and most effective way of saying what needs to be said is 'Stop being a dick'
My sense of self superiority? Yea, I got that. I'm the greatest that ever played. A strawman argument is when you set up something similar to the persons argument that is obviously wrong, show that, and then extend that relationship to the whole thing. Superiority complex or not, that is terrible logic and I see no issue with someone pointing out that one was used. I also assume you are smart enough to have a decent setup on your party and you may also have to call a few targets from time to time (especially bosses). I find that to be quite altruistic of myself to think that others can do that, given my sanctimonious sense of superiority but the most vocal always seem to want to squash that idea right out of my head. The fact is that the Hench/heroes can clear almost everything by their selves, if they aren't then you are doing something wrong. Nearly every single party wipe I have ever had is traced back to something *I* did. Every once in a while one of them likes to leeroy off for reasons unknown to me or they just stand around doing nothing. I'm not entirely sure why it is a sense of self superiority to say that on party wipes I am the one (or the human is) that goofed, but OK - I like being a sanctimonious prick. cyber88
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Originally Posted by mcsumo
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Originally Posted by ender6
1) Always Bring Zho and Illusionist Hench (for EotN). If possible bring an interrupter Hero. Also you can often slip in Leech Signet/Power Drain onto hero skillbars acting as e-mgnt + interrupts.
2) Grab aggro in a safe fashion. Either you, or a flagged hero, can act as a puller, forcing the AI to drop AoE dmg in an innocuous fashion. 3) Lastly, alot of ppl think that Sab's necro build is the cornerstone to doing everything in HM. Think of his build as a primer and adjust it accordingly to reflect the areas you are PvE'ing in. my 2cents... I agree all all 3 points because after trying out the 3 points, it works. especially for point 1 & 3.
Sheriff
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Originally Posted by ender6
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Quote: Originally Posted by ender6 2) Grab aggro in a safe fashion. Either you, or a flagged hero, can act as a puller, forcing the AI to drop AoE dmg in an innocuous fashion. That's true. One nice way of doing it is using Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support, and then charging in while the enemy is being pummeled by it
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Yeah of course! I can't keep up my echoed Bone Fiend spamming anymore! Curse you ANet?|
Originally Posted by ender6
3) Lastly, alot of ppl think that Sab's necro build is the cornerstone to doing everything in HM. Think of his build as a primer and adjust it accordingly to reflect the areas you are PvE'ing in.
my 2cents... Absolutely. Here's an example: for HoS, I turned the N/Mo MM into N/Rt and put Bloodsong (kills the wurm real fast) and splinter weapon for Talon to have some fun. But to be honest, this build is mostly c-space on most of GWEN NM
unienaule
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Originally Posted by Sheriff
But to be honest, this build is mostly c-space on most of GWEN NM
Didn't you hear? The soul reaping timer makes necromancers bad in PvE.
Sheriff
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Originally Posted by unienaule
Didn't you hear? The soul reaping timer makes necromancers bad in PvE.
Yeah yeah yeah, next thing you're going to tell me that Paragons suck, right?
blue.rellik
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Originally Posted by unienaule
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Originally Posted by Sheriff
Yeah yeah yeah, next thing you're going to tell me that Paragons suck, right?
Obviously. Cracked Armor means I can't aggro everything I see anymore!
cyber88
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Originally Posted by Sheriff
But to be honest, this build is mostly c-space on most of GWEN NM
Well, Sab created this build for NM in the 1st place anyway.
Elinold Fyonex
You know whats crazier is that his builds work on HM too xD I've been farming the crap out of the hm books by doing curse of the norn bear, time for heroes, and assault on the stronghold over and over with them (well, not on time for heroes, i use a 4 monk build on that one ;P) As a war, sabs necros make the game as a whole a c space fest...and that's ok for a change
Sheriff
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Originally Posted by Elinold Fyonex
You know whats crazier is that his builds work on HM too xD I've been farming the crap out of the hm books by doing curse of the norn bear, time for heroes, and assault on the stronghold over and over with them (well, not on time for heroes, i use a 4 monk build on that one ;P) As a war, sabs necros make the game as a whole a c space fest...and that's ok for a change
Yes the build works fine in HM as well. Main difference seems to be that on NM you can get away with 0 monks, and on HM you definitely need one more monk to help the restoration N/RtNow this is for my W (dslash/godmode build) and since it's mostly a balanced team, the amount of healers above holds. If I use a less defensive/more offensive team (atm my mesmer is having fun with a Echo + Arcane Echo + Pain Inverter + EVAS + Summon Mursaat build ), I might bring the 2 monk henchies.And regarding a Time for Heroes, yeah it's safer to do it with at least 4 healers, even though Pain Inverter totally owns the great destroyer. Mind you, I've seen a 55 soloing that mission :S
Elinold Fyonex
For hm, I usually take both monks, zho, and cynn. Plow through mobs easily with it (maybe cause I'm running ursan
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cyber88
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Originally Posted by Sheriff
And regarding a Time for Heroes, yeah it's safer to do it with at least 4 healers, even though Pain Inverter totally owns the great destroyer. Mind you, I've seen a 55 soloing that mission :S
I know. I paid for a run in HM from 1 of the 55 monk.
roperratt
I have been using something similar to this but I use Gwen in place of Livia, she does pretty good with the healing. I gave her energy tap for bringing her energy back up. I started using Gwen because of the missions that called for her in the party and was suprised by how well she does. I will probably go back to the 3 necro build eventually. What would be a better energy management tool for a mesmer?
Sheriff
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Originally Posted by roperratt
What would be a better energy management tool for a mesmer?
To bring Eve as an henchie!
Otherwise, a few points in inspiration and leech signet + power drain can be useful. Or consider less energy heavy skills and bring more signets. cyber88
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Originally Posted by Sheriff
To bring Eve as an henchie!
Otherwise, a few points in inspiration and leech signet + power drain can be useful. Or consider less energy heavy skills and bring more signets. Thumbs up on that point. I have given up my war henchie for her & energy has never been a problem again.  Actually, ever since I know AI has godly reflexes with interupt skills (or 3/4 skills for the matter), power drain & leech signet has been a staple in my heroes build if I can squeeze it in.
roperratt
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To bring Eve as an henchie!
Thank you. I will try this tomorrow.
| xpiher
I'm a necro and I want to do dungeons in order to get maxed out titles. For this build what would I use for tanking, myself or would i set up a hero smiter and take the roll of the ss? Suggestion appreciated
Channel_V93
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Originally Posted by xpiher
I'm a necro and I want to do dungeons in order to get maxed out titles. For this build what would I use for tanking, myself or would i set up a hero smiter and take the roll of the ss? Suggestion appreciated
How about you be the SS and you get a free hero slot >__>
xpiher
yeah I knew that, but hero suck at tanking thats why I was asking for help.
[DE]
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Originally Posted by xpiher
yeah I knew that, but hero suck at tanking thats why I was asking for help.
You don't need a tank. You never need a tank. Anywhere.
xpiher
maybe I forgot to mention I was trying to do this in HM. I know you don't need a tank, but it makes things a hell of a lot easier.
[DE]
I'd prefer to have one more DPS'r than a tank that wastes a party slot.
Sab
That's what Prot Spirit is for - you throw it on yourself and tank the first wave of damage in HM. You can drop the res sig on the MM for SoA if you need more prot.
Jagged
Sab, you should get a commission from Anet. I only had Prophecy and EOTN (and wasn't planning on more) until I read your builds. I have now bought NF and will buy Factions this week to have all the heros and skills available to do Sabway!
Wakka
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I'd prefer to have one more DPS'r than a tank that wastes a party slot.
Very much agreed.
| Ace2001
Has anybody tried beating the Nightfall quest "The Troubled Keeper" with Sab's build? I've tried three times, and while neither me or any of my guys have died, the keeper does. All 5 times I've tried. I don't know if I'm just doing it wrong/suck horribly, or if theres some pattern to it that I don't know. (the character I'm using is a warrior, btw.)
[DE]
Have you tried micro'ing your heroes to heal/prot the keeper? Have a prot spirit thrown on him and let your WoR necro focus his/her attention on just the keeper.
Ace2001
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Originally Posted by The Phantom
Have you tried micro'ing your heroes to heal/prot the keeper? Have a prot spirit thrown on him and let your WoR necro focus his/her attention on just the keeper.
I have micro'd the prot spirit on him, yes. Not entirely sure how to micro the WoR necro, though.
Me and two friends just managed to get to the last part of the third wave, but...so many enemy healers. x_X (There was like 2 clerics and 3 or 4 words in just one group.)
laxin213
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Originally Posted by xpiher | I'm a necro and I want to do dungeons in order to get maxed out titles. For this build what would I use for tanking, myself or would i set up a hero smiter and take the roll of the ss? Suggestion appreciated My primary is a Necro. I have used a variant of SAB's and make myself go as FoC and I run something like this: Suffering, Archane Echo, Feast of Corruption, Necrosis, Pain Inverter, Rez For the last few sills work ins: Desc Encthants, Delife Encths, Signet of Corruption, Ebon Std of Courage, Mind Bender Nice Armor Ignoring Damage, and the FoC spike provides me a small heal as well. Mind bender cuts down on the seemingly long cast times of FoC, echo, etc. Playing my mez spoils me into thinks casting should = quick. 4 necro MANIA
kel77
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Originally Posted by Sab
[skill]Healer's Boon[/skill][skill]Heal Other[/skill][skill]Jamei's Gaze[/skill][skill]Heal Party[/skill][skill]Shield of Absorption[/skill][skill]Protective Spirit[/skill][skill]Signet of Lost Souls[/skill] + [skill]Cure Hex[/skill]
I'm sorry if it was already posted, but could someone give me a template for this build? Thanks
Sab
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Originally Posted by kel77
I'm sorry if it was already posted, but could someone give me a template for this build?
Thanks I should add that I posted the Healer's Boon bar before the change to HB, which turned it from a maintained enchant to one that lasts 10s at 0 DF. I don't know if it still works.
kel77
Ya, that does pretty much screw the build o well. Thanks for posting so fast sab!
GloryField
I dont have time to read through 16 pages
is there an updated sabway, or does the original first post's build still work fine? THX so much btw |
![[DE]](/static/static/../Img/avatar38220_14.gif){kind=avatar}
