Anet has major issues, but I'm not gonna start flaming about it in this thread. But I agree with DTS and Strokey.
Balance the game, dont Nerf everything cause its not the same as balancing.
Sab's 3 Necro Hero build in action in EotN
Revan Soulbreaker
Norrin
It's impossible to balance without nerfing, just picture a scale in your head.
ducktape
Ugh, nerf coming soon? :/
I've been avoiding vanquishing stuff and have been farming reputation points instead, but I suppose I should go vanquish some of the more annoying areas while this build is still as strong. Does anyone have any advice as to what really sucky areas I should go clear out ASAP before the nerfbat arrives? I know the four-man areas are supposed to be the most difficult, but if there are any other difficult areas this build especially kicks ass at for vanquishing I'd like to go do them while it's still enjoyable with this build.
I've been avoiding vanquishing stuff and have been farming reputation points instead, but I suppose I should go vanquish some of the more annoying areas while this build is still as strong. Does anyone have any advice as to what really sucky areas I should go clear out ASAP before the nerfbat arrives? I know the four-man areas are supposed to be the most difficult, but if there are any other difficult areas this build especially kicks ass at for vanquishing I'd like to go do them while it's still enjoyable with this build.
RTSFirebat
Tired of reading posts about who made what? No one cares... I've deleted it all and any further posts about this being a HA build or whatever are going to get deleted and user noted. No further warnings will be given.
yesitsrob
Soul Reaping is the underlying balance issue here, and I think any other balance to this build other than soul reaping would be crazy, because none of the skills are that overpowered. Perhaps Soul Reaping shouldn't work on spirits... though considering how long people have said that (like way back when EW FoC spiked months and months ago 
) I can see Izzy being very reluctant to doing what it correct. And Jagged Bones should never have been made, pretty big mistake there.
I guess it might be worth looking at how good the heroes are with the ashes, they are so fast at dropping kaolai you sometimes won't even see the bars drop. The ashes themselves are far from overpowered though
I guess it might be worth looking at how good the heroes are with the ashes, they are so fast at dropping kaolai you sometimes won't even see the bars drop. The ashes themselves are far from overpowered though
bungusmaximus
Quote:
Originally Posted by yesitsrob
Soul Reaping is the underlying balance issue here, and I think any other balance to this build other than soul reaping would be crazy, because none of the skills are that overpowered. Perhaps Soul Reaping shouldn't work on spirits... though considering how long people have said that (like way back when EW FoC spiked months and months ago ) I can see Izzy being very reluctant to doing what it correct. And Jagged Bones should never have been made, pretty big mistake there.
I guess it might be worth looking at how good the heroes are with the ashes, they are so fast at dropping kaolai you sometimes won't even see the bars drop. The ashes themselves are far from overpowered though Hmm the fact ritualists heal for a crap load while only investing 8-9 in restoration magic has something to do with it as well. Dropping SR from spirits wouldn't hurt this build. It would be good for balance, that's probably why everyone and his granny is suggesting that. I am most surprised aNet didn't nerf it that way as it is the most perfect solution you could think of.
I guess it might be worth looking at how good the heroes are with the ashes, they are so fast at dropping kaolai you sometimes won't even see the bars drop. The ashes themselves are far from overpowered though Hmm the fact ritualists heal for a crap load while only investing 8-9 in restoration magic has something to do with it as well. Dropping SR from spirits wouldn't hurt this build. It would be good for balance, that's probably why everyone and his granny is suggesting that. I am most surprised aNet didn't nerf it that way as it is the most perfect solution you could think of.
Vinraith
Also wanted to chime in and thank Sab for this build. I used a variant of it for Glint's Challenge to remarkable effect along with my own condition necro. I'm always loathe to use other people's build designs without understanding them in a complete enough way that I feel confident retooling them myself, though. As I understand it (and please correct me if I'm wrong) the fundamental elements that make this thing work are:
1) MM minion bombing with JB results in an enormous amount of death, fueling SR for all three characters. It also spreads bleeding and disease throughout enemy mobs, and Barbs from the Curse necro amplifies the physical damage output of the minion swarm.
2) The N/Rt healer uses this pool of energy to continuously cast Resto spells thus providing an inordinate amount of healing and a bit of protection despite the skills all being off-primary and thus runeless.
3) SS does what SS always does.
I'm not tremendously familiar with Rits, so if I'm missing something let me know. I'm particularly curious about the prot spells on the MM. Those are an anti-spike measure, I gather, because the resto line doesn't really provide for that kind of thing?
Furthermore, am I right in thinking that the SS's only "synergy" with the other two is barbs for the minions and, of course, the infinite energy supply from the minions? It seems like, conceptually, there's a lot of room for skill flexibility here outside of the JB minion skills (to keep the engine going). Is that right?
1) MM minion bombing with JB results in an enormous amount of death, fueling SR for all three characters. It also spreads bleeding and disease throughout enemy mobs, and Barbs from the Curse necro amplifies the physical damage output of the minion swarm.
2) The N/Rt healer uses this pool of energy to continuously cast Resto spells thus providing an inordinate amount of healing and a bit of protection despite the skills all being off-primary and thus runeless.
3) SS does what SS always does.
I'm not tremendously familiar with Rits, so if I'm missing something let me know. I'm particularly curious about the prot spells on the MM. Those are an anti-spike measure, I gather, because the resto line doesn't really provide for that kind of thing?
Furthermore, am I right in thinking that the SS's only "synergy" with the other two is barbs for the minions and, of course, the infinite energy supply from the minions? It seems like, conceptually, there's a lot of room for skill flexibility here outside of the JB minion skills (to keep the engine going). Is that right?
mcsumo
You are pretty much spot on with your summaries of the synergy and individual skill. The N/any has enough energy coming in from the minions to do whatever they like.
A secondary Rit healer is generally much more effective than a secondary Mo healer. Largely because a Monks healing skills are 'buffed' further by Divine Favour bonus.
Originally the 2 'spare' slots on the MM build were duplicates of Spirit Light and Mend Body and Soul, but Sab changed that somewhere along the line deciding that Aegis and Prot Spirit provided mnore utility.
The curses Nec is the most changeable bar. Barbs is a must with minions, SS is .... well..... just the best really. The rest can be changed depending on preference/available skills/location. Sab actually stated in a post, that 2 of the skills were just 'meh'.
This is what my curses ended up as,
[skill]Spiteful Spirit[/skill][skill]Reckless Haste[/skill][skill]Mark of Pain[/skill][skill]Barbs[/skill][skill]Price of Failure[/skill][skill]Enfeebling Blood[/skill][skill]Signet of Lost Souls[/skill][skill]Death Pact Signet[/skill]
Where there is a lot of enchant hate I still use rit skills on the MM. Just change what works for you.
A secondary Rit healer is generally much more effective than a secondary Mo healer. Largely because a Monks healing skills are 'buffed' further by Divine Favour bonus.
Originally the 2 'spare' slots on the MM build were duplicates of Spirit Light and Mend Body and Soul, but Sab changed that somewhere along the line deciding that Aegis and Prot Spirit provided mnore utility.
The curses Nec is the most changeable bar. Barbs is a must with minions, SS is .... well..... just the best really. The rest can be changed depending on preference/available skills/location. Sab actually stated in a post, that 2 of the skills were just 'meh'.
This is what my curses ended up as,
[skill]Spiteful Spirit[/skill][skill]Reckless Haste[/skill][skill]Mark of Pain[/skill][skill]Barbs[/skill][skill]Price of Failure[/skill][skill]Enfeebling Blood[/skill][skill]Signet of Lost Souls[/skill][skill]Death Pact Signet[/skill]
Where there is a lot of enchant hate I still use rit skills on the MM. Just change what works for you.
Vinraith
Thanks mcsumo, I appreciate the confirmation and clarification. I feel reasonably well equipped to tweak now.
Vamis Threen
I just want to thank to the OP and Sab for sharing/creating this amazing build. As far as I'm concerned it really is the holy grail of Hero Team builds; builds which heroes can run (common enough I suppose), which are not just sub-par but great (rare), and additionally synergise with each other (unheard-of, by me anyway).
I just now finished Rragar's menagerie in HM with H/H, which I had just about given up on. It was still hard but at least it was possible.
Fantastic work, guys.
I just now finished Rragar's menagerie in HM with H/H, which I had just about given up on. It was still hard but at least it was possible.
Fantastic work, guys.
Gigashadow
I've switched to using Weaken Armor instead of Insidious Parasite, now that weaken is 5e, applies cracked armor (applies to both physical and elemental damage, unlike the old weaken armor), and has a quick recast. I was never a big fan of Insidious Parasite, it's expensive and the health gain part may be wasted.
Cracked armor benefits the minions, any damage casters you happen to have around (I usually use the earth and fire eles), as well as yourself depending on what you are playing.
Cracked armor benefits the minions, any damage casters you happen to have around (I usually use the earth and fire eles), as well as yourself depending on what you are playing.
Skuld
I use Splinter Weapon and Warmonger's Weapon on the SS.
thunderai
With the latest skill balance has this build seen the end of days?
Jamison0071
It's only the spirits, in PVE there is already enough corpses.
Sab
I expected Soul Reaping to be nerfed a lot harder, but the only thing that's changed is that you won't get the 10e back from Life.
Avatar Exico
ya but the pets I used for my build in my runs is now gone. Nerf my build. This is making me mad. They make changes just for pvp and never leave PvE alone. Im about to Cry for Pets.
Arkantos
The SR nerf barely affects the build seeing as theres only 1 spirit in the build.
RTSFirebat
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkantos
The SR nerf barely affects the build seeing as theres only 1 spirit in the build.
QFT... this update changes nothing for this build.
blue.rellik
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avatar Exico
ya but the pets I used for my build in my runs is now gone. Nerf my build. This is making me mad. They make changes just for pvp and never leave PvE alone. Im about to Cry for Pets.
If your builds success depended on the ability to molest your pet's corpse then.....well *ahem*
Yeah.
Yeah.
bungusmaximus
Quote:
Originally Posted by blue.rellik
If your builds success depended on the ability to molest your pet's corpse then.....well *ahem*
Yeah.
I didn't try it yet, but I'm pretty sure the build isn't hurt beyond repair.
Yeah.
I didn't try it yet, but I'm pretty sure the build isn't hurt beyond repair.
Cobalt
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkantos
The SR nerf barely affects the build seeing as theres only 1 spirit in the build.
Yea but people who used it with Rit mains like me spammed spirits as well making it even more affective.
I guess if you are in an area that will have a lot of corpses you can change out Life for minions, just keep them weak to ensure lots of dying. This might even be better if the MM with Jagged Bones can use that on the N/Rt healers minions, I am just not sure if they can use it on minions they don't control.
I guess if you are in an area that will have a lot of corpses you can change out Life for minions, just keep them weak to ensure lots of dying. This might even be better if the MM with Jagged Bones can use that on the N/Rt healers minions, I am just not sure if they can use it on minions they don't control.
cyber88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkantos
Quote:
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Originally Posted by RTSFirebat
QFT... this update changes nothing for this build.
Refer to answer above.
As mention before and by Sab. When Life ends, it will provide a 10e return to the resto rit (before the nerf bat). I may be flamed by many (pvpers & anti-necs pvers) but this is my $0.02 worth. I play a primary monk & it is frigging difficult to find a decent pug that can finish quest/mission/dungeon (I won't even mention vanquishing) so I H/H most of the time. In some areas (who could forget about vanquishing Eastern Frontier) with only 4 man party size. There is only so much dps that team can dish out. Even with e-management, running my primary monk will run out of energy sooner or later (yes, I am unable to kill things fast enough). The N/Rt resto nec gave me that staying power by letting to kill slowly but steadily by providing me continous heals (NOT SPIKE HEALS) whether to start a minion army or otherwise when i switch to a smiting build to help wif the DPS. That is the strength of the resto nec. But, it is not without weakness. 2-3 spikes will overwhelm the heals. I know that a primary monk could outheal spikes easily (with or without) the correct build. Now without staying power, yes, I could always rework my H/H config. BUT HELL. Heroes & henchies AI are screwed up as it is. If the main toon is a an offensive prof, the AI won't be that bad. When it is a defensive (or a toon who dun dish damage), the AI screwup hits thru the roof. Microing 3 heroes & the group of 4 henchies is a #@$^& already. Have anyone here done something like this. You, yourself healing/enchanting the different H/H while making sure that they INDIVIDUALLY are pressuring/hurting the correct different mobs from a friggin mob (there are a large number of areas where u need to pressure a few different mobs in order to start the killing)? If your answer is yes, then I salute you. I am a causal player and at best an amature player. I want to enjoy my game not furiously mashing the different buttons on my keyboard and mouse at the same time (even FPS pvp games dun demand such attention) Yes, that 1 spirit actually mean a lot in this team build for me. Before you flame me or anything. Get this straight. I am not asking for Anet to reverse the "skill balance". All I am stating is my point of view on the whether there is little effect or a lot of effect with the SR nerf & having 1 spirit on only 1 of the 3 skill bars.
Skuld
10e? 5 more like.
strcpy
Life is 10e with a 20s recharge. At best - assuming 16 SR and when life ends you are able to trigger SR then you only net 6e
I would have to say that if an extra 6e every 20 second on a Necromancer makes much of a difference you are playing something terribly wrong. Heck, even lets assume that you only care about gross energy, if *one* trigger of SR every twenty seconds is going to make you go from full energy to none there is something seriously wrong with the way you playing.* As long as you can get energy from minions that aren't your own this build is going to work. Life was there more for the skills that need a spirit close by to reduce harsh penalties and (to a lesser extent) the healing it provides when it dies. It wasn't part of the e-management - that is done by the cheap minions being spawned all the time. *edit - You shouldn't be having this issue even if you are *new* to the game, it is not a matter of being "casual" or "hardcore". I can flag the group ahead of me into a large group of enemies, do nothing, and watch them win every single time. If they are dieing when you enter the fight then *you* are doing something grossly incorrect.
Curse You
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobalt
Yea but people who used it with Rit mains like me spammed spirits as well making it even more affective.
Did you miss the part about Soul Reaping only triggering on spirits created by that person? It doesn't really matter anymore, but still, having a Spirit Spammer actually made no difference with regards to the energy gain of the necromancers.
cyber88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skuld
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by strcpy
Life is 10e with a 20s recharge. At best - assuming 16 SR and when life ends you are able to trigger SR then you only net 6e
I would have to say that if an extra 6e every 20 second on a Necromancer makes much of a difference you are playing something terribly wrong. Heck, even lets assume that you only care about gross energy, if *one* trigger of SR every twenty seconds is going to make you go from full energy to none there is something seriously wrong with the way you playing.* As long as you can get energy from minions that aren't your own this build is going to work. Life was there more for the skills that need a spirit close by to reduce harsh penalties and (to a lesser extent) the healing it provides when it dies. It wasn't part of the e-management - that is done by the cheap minions being spawned all the time. *edit - You shouldn't be having this issue even if you are *new* to the game, it is not a matter of being "casual" or "hardcore". I can flag the group ahead of me into a large group of enemies, do nothing, and watch them win every single time. If they are dieing when you enter the fight then *you* are doing something grossly incorrect. Thanks for your "wonderful" insights. Because of the "wonderful" AI, when I play (HM), I usually charge in with my H/H. As I am a monk, the mobs absolutely adores me and I take a good portion of the aggro & draws them away. The heroes are setup using tested working builds. (1 ss/enfeelbling, 1 sf ele & 1 hard interupt ranger). I took 1 healing hench, 1 blood hench, the ele hench & 1 mes hench. I myself play the prot monk. & my H/H hav problems surviving. Yes, I am a noob. Case close
Sheriff
Quote:
Originally Posted by cyber88
Thanks for your "wonderful" insights. Because of the "wonderful" AI, when I play (HM), I usually charge in with my H/H. As I am a monk, the mobs absolutely adores me and I take a good portion of the aggro & draws them away. The heroes are setup using tested working builds. (1 ss/enfeelbling, 1 sf ele & 1 hard interupt ranger). I took 1 healing hench, 1 blood hench, the ele hench & 1 mes hench. I myself play the prot monk. & my H/H hav problems surviving. Yes, I am a noob.
Case close As I tell many "new" players... relying on base classes only is 99% of the times a baaaaaad idea. Be inovative! Play a smiter, bring Sab's team build, leave the healing hench at home (imho LoD nerf makes Mhenlo less useful than Lina), and by "ele hench" I sure hope you mean Herta, not Cynn. BTW I'd also recommend Lo Sha for melee-heavy areas or Zho for caster-heavy areas. Cobalt
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curse You
Did you miss the part about Soul Reaping only triggering on spirits created by that person? It doesn't really matter anymore, but still, having a Spirit Spammer actually made no difference with regards to the energy gain of the necromancers.
Oh I was thinking they were like anything else dying and triggering SR like, minions, pets, team, enemy etc... guess I was wrong.
Blobbe Tropper
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobalt
Oh I was thinking they were like anything else dying and triggering SR like, minions, pets, team, enemy etc... guess I was wrong.
i was thinking the same, another question? this build still works?
i suppose n/rt healer works better than lod healer.. Keithark
I saved templates and then loaded them and went into normal mode imperial sanctum (working on carto title) I added a hench monk, warrior, ranger, and elly. It made things easy for sure...but there were still deaths and if I had been in hardmode there would have been party wipe city. It works great though to speed thru stuff in normal mode but for me I still need a buddy in HM to bring his heros so we can have a full 8 man team all with synergy not just 3 heros
Sheriff
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blobbe Tropper
i was thinking the same, another question? this build still works?
i suppose n/rt healer works better than lod healer.. After the changes to LoD, you can rest assured that the N/Rt restoration works way way better than LoD monk. In fact and in general (with the exception of hex removal), Restoration is vastly superior to Healing.
mcsumo
Well I just used the 3 necros with cynn, herta, lina and mhenlo to vanquish outside Umral Grotto (can't remember area name
Originally Posted by strcpy
 ). It still works fine as long as there are bodies. It doesn't do at all well in long drawn out fights, you need to be quickly in and take them down. Otherwise the minions all die and the whole team synergy is gone.I find in hard mode that only 1 hench monk isn't enough and adding another offensive hench makes no difference to how quickly mobs die. Quote: *edit - You shouldn't be having this issue even if you are *new* to the game, it is not a matter of being "casual" or "hardcore". I can flag the group ahead of me into a large group of enemies, do nothing, and watch them win every single time. If they are dieing when you enter the fight then *you* are doing something grossly incorrect.
And WTH are you talking about, strcpy? If you flag them into a group of flameshielders they will die since they are too stupid to run from big rocks landing on their head. If you flag them to where 3 Quetzl tengu patrols converge they will die. It is not possible for the player to join in the fight and make them lose. It is still about aggro control and playing well.
Sheriff
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcsumo
I find in hard mode that only 1 hench monk isn't enough and adding another offensive hench makes no difference to how quickly mobs die.
You're doing something wrong if you need a rest N/Rt AND 2 monk henchmen
The N/Rt is enough for NM. One more healer should be enough for HM. You should only need a 3rd monk if your party is balanced to all-offense-no-defense (like 5 channeling ritualists...) EDIT: if you could provide more details about where/with which party choice/withi which build you're needing a 3rd healer...
ender6
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheriff
As I tell many "new" players... relying on base classes only is 99% of the times a baaaaaad idea.
Be inovative! Play a smiter, bring Sab's team build, leave the healing hench at home (imho LoD nerf makes Mhenlo less useful than Lina), and by "ele hench" I sure hope you mean Herta, not Cynn. BTW I'd also recommend Lo Sha for melee-heavy areas or Zho for caster-heavy areas. Actually Mhenlo now uses WoH (as of Tuesday 11/13/2007): http://www.guildwars.com/support/gameupdates/ Miscellaneous Changed the elite skill used by the henchman Mhenlo in Eye of the North to Word of Healing. Abnaxus
I got tyrian Guardian some days ago essentially using this team with my ranger, which was set mainly as interrupter with BHA and vanguard assassin, or HotHF + volley for some missions involving undeads.
In 6 men Krytan areas I took Thom and Alesia, in the desert Thom and Lina. Actually breezed any mission (with the exception of Aurora Glade bonus where for unknown reasons I had only one chance to keep the bonus giver alive after several attempts). In 8 man areas I used 2 hench warriors and 2 hench monks, again no problem, in Ring of Fire I went with my friend (ranger too) who added 2 monk heroes and Jora or Xandra. In my opinion, the key for such easy time in Tyria is that the mob AI is programmed to attack the monk. They don't "know" that the N/Rt is a healer and so they don't have a target against which prioritize and focus their attacks. So the N/Rt (in my case Livia) does her dirty job essentially undisturbed. Furthermore, their skills and AI are balanced against Prophecies skills, they have little or no counters against skills and classes from different campaigns.
Sheriff
Quote:
Originally Posted by ender6
Actually Mhenlo now uses WoH (as of Tuesday 11/13/2007):
http://www.guildwars.com/support/gameupdates/ Miscellaneous Changed the elite skill used by the henchman Mhenlo in Eye of the North to Word of Healing. Thanks for pointing that out. So the N/Rt + either of the henchies should be enough Mhenlo would be better now for areas with short fights thanks to his spike healing (ex: vs 5 elementalists) Lina would be better now for areas with long fights thanks to the energy she gets back from ZB (ex: vs balanced parties)
mcsumo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheriff
You're doing something wrong if you need a rest N/Rt AND 2 monk henchmen
The N/Rt is enough for NM. One more healer should be enough for HM. You should only need a 3rd monk if your party is balanced to all-offense-no-defense (like 5 channeling ritualists...) EDIT: if you could provide more details about where/with which party choice/withi which build you're needing a 3rd healer... All sorts of areas, depends what I am fighting more than the area. AoE damage is the real killer, if you dont have the N/Rt AND Mhenlo and Lina. A group with 3 flameshielders will kill us, or 5 frozen elementals, or 6 ice imps, or 2 avalanches and 2 frozens, just about any combo of those nasty AoE types the AI can't handle. If I try to 'draw their fire' first, the N/Rt and 1 monk can't spike my health back up fast enough. Jotun Skullsmashers are another problem, 4 giant stomps in a row bring every body's health down, a big group of Modnirs, can have the same effect. Even when I try to space them out with 4 seperate flags, they always seem to bunch up in their headless chicken routine. Vanquishing the Charr and Norn areas in EotN has been a struggle, with me dragging them kicking and screaming through, despite their propensity to all stand in meteor showers/maelstroms repeatedly trying to cast spells. Some areas I have abandoned them altogether and gone with a barrier/bonder monk (depending on enchant hate) or Hayda and Morgahn with an RC prot hero, as well as 2 hench monks....although in that case I use warrior/ranger hench. I do know what I am doing I have, proected, guardianed, mapped and skill capped all 3 continents. It just seems to me that in some situations these necro guys leave their brains at home.
beanerman_99
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcsumo
Jotun Skullsmashers are another problem, 4 giant stomps in a row bring every body's health down, a big group of Modnirs, can have the same effect. Even when I try to space them out with 4 seperate flags, they always seem to bunch up in their headless chicken routine. Vanquishing the Charr and Norn areas in EotN has been a struggle, with me dragging them kicking and screaming through, despite their propensity to all stand in meteor showers/maelstroms repeatedly trying to cast spells. Some areas I have abandoned them altogether and gone with a barrier/bonder monk (depending on enchant hate) or Hayda and Morgahn with an RC prot hero, as well as 2 hench monks....although in that case I use warrior/ranger hench. I do know what I am doing I have, proected, guardianed, mapped and skill capped all 3 continents. It just seems to me that in some situations these necro guys leave their brains at home. And no I am not "doing it wrong".
Big_Iron
Quote:
Originally Posted by beanerman_99
This. I just can't help but get mad at the fact that monsters scatter like roaches when the lights turn on if you hit them with an AoE spell....yet my henchmen stand in ANY AND ALL AoE from monsters and can cause a wipe in seconds. There needs to be some henchy AI balances made.
And no I am not "doing it wrong". I've been complaining about this for ages. I do get pretty angry when enemy AI knows to step out of an AoE attack, but my H/H team doesn't.
stretchs
I have went through 30 of the 34 areas in Elona with the 3 n/rt's basically same build as was initially posted. Really had very little issue outside of the roaring ethers. They were a bit nasty. I am a warrior that typically swords or on occasion ursan (yes i know I am horrible) I always bring the healer hench (Kihm the prot) Herta, Zho (or whatever the ranger is) and the Motivation hero. Very seldom did I ever have any issues with multiple deaths, the only char that ever had a problem was my ss N/Rt. He was just always taking too much aggro so had to work with him flagging.
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