Who here uses PvX WiKi builds?

Are you talking about the template code? I just copy and paste the code they have there.

As for me using those builds...Only for my heroes. I have enough trouble making a build for myself, so I just look up some there for my heroes. I feel a lot better making my own build, too, especially when it's pretty good.

In my opinion, the most effective builds, for a certain job appear to use around 80% of the same skill bar. Some skills just won't get used because they're awful while others are everywhere because they are comparatively very useful. And when all your bars are decided by their usefulness (they way they should be chose IMO) they will start looking very similar.

Example: A necromancer looking to shut down melee will probably want something to slow down an attacker, and then something to mess with hit rates so that they can shutdown two attackers with the different skill combos. Well, in terms of melee shutdown, the curses domain provides the most options; so they will search within that line first to chose skills. For attack rate debuffs, the all around best skill is faintheartedness which has a shorter duration than Shadow of Fear and Meekness but has a shorter cast time which makes it harder to shut down; it doesn't have the range problem of Meekness and has a nice degen effect to add damage to the picture. To mess with an attacker's hit rate, Price of Failure and Reckless Haste are the strongest skill options in the curses line, and they work well together. Grab a useful cover hex: Parasitic Bond and Defile Defenses come to mind; and chose a useful elite: Spiteful Spirit for arenas and more target control, corrupt enchantment for enchantment removal, or reaper's mark for degen and energy gain. Now add some utility skills: enchantment removal if you don't already have it, glyph of lesser energy or signet of lost souls to handle the energy costs and, of course, your resurrection signet, and you're now left with one skill to play around with (or no skills if you took Rend Enchantment and Glyph of Lesser or SoLS). We recognize this as a standard curses N/any necro. The E/any BSurge is the same. It may have more room for utility and extra stuff, the primary skills which identify it are always the same.

What I'm trying to say is people don't need guild wiki to string together strong skill combos and come up with a lot of the "cookie cutter" builds we see now. Many of them are obvious. The problem, if you can call it that, is people "copying" these builds and using them without knowing how the build works and the purpose of each individual skill. Most of the time these players' lack of skill will kill them in due time. I do know that this isn't always the case though. Until recently, a decent player stuck by themselves without any disruption or defensive skills was basically doomed against any SP sin who could press buttons in a correct order, though that occurrence is a function of class or skill imbalance moreso than PvXwiki.

On the flip side, though I see he PvXwiki templates as an effective learning aid to help new players figure out how to make their own builds as they figure out why certain skills are useful in certain roles. I think most of us would agree that the early learning curve for players new to pvp has been lowered as the game has aged and that isn't a bad thing. Besides, most of the people I see complaining about PvXwiki are players who haven't taken the time to re-examine their own skill bars and therefore deserve to lose to stronger skill bars on the merits of that alone.

Meh. Just my two cents.

Thats sweeping and inaccurate and you know it.

Anyone with half a brain or who's played pvp for more than a week can separate out the crap, and since when is copying a build off obs particularly bad?

edru is right. and as for the users, we make sure they dont feel welcome. We are confronted on pvx every day by arrogant IP's and redlinkers and occasional r5 wisdom titles who feel they need to make their erroneous opinions known. It doesnt mean we listen to them.


I could come up in 5 seconds a list of pvx usernames that know what they're doing, in 10 more seconds a list of people who also have craplaods of experience. Define pvx by them, not by the random shit you see.

We don't go out of our way to make the noobs feel unwelcome. We just explain to them why they're wrong. Not our fault they have a fortunate tendency to ragequit. =P

Back when I posted that, WoH was shit, and the WoH healer was a bad healing bar - iirc, it even had a sup rune and Breeze.

The current WoH hybrids are a whole new beast and are actually good.

Anyho, as for PvX... Idiots are allowed to voice their 'opinions', simply.
And with a resource like that, Joe-Wammo and AB Narutard are exactly the kind of people you don't want contributing. Call me an elitist dick or whatever, but I don't particularly want scrubs and retards and delicate unique snowflakes suggesting what's 'good' when they don't even know that Frenzy iz gud.

Edru, I wish you the best of luck. Brutal Naziism is the way forward, imo.

well, me and skafag certainly make them feel unwelcome =)
well, occasionally
theres a difference between newb and noob though, and we are always mindful of that.

But thats what WE HAVE.
We remove votes, we explain politely, impolitely, and rudely that they suck, and we've never came close to letting joe wammo and ab narutard actually having a successful build(cept for in the "other" sectin..when no one notices its there so it falls to random lurkers to vote it down)

Theres maybe 3 people who had shit ideas and stuck around to say the same thing constantly.
they eventually also raged


and btw, edru, are we gonna eventually passn PvX:TARD? or w/e its called, the pvx policy that allows you to be banned for faggotry/idiocy/total assholeossity.

Most of those people get all of their votes removed. Except perhaps on things that don't matter, like PvE, AB, RA, CM, etc. And, with Shireen no longer active, a lot of them tend to get driven away or ragequit.

Yeah, we aren't elitist enough, though.

PvXwikion't be a dick? Why? We already ban people who violate it. No need to actually have a policy saying "Don't be a dick."

+1 vote for PvX:TARD or w/e

and more naziism

Ahh, good stuff, good stuff.

Not been on in a wee while

I do. I copy skill sets entirely or simply read up on builds to give me ideas for skill sets.

It gave me ideas for fun things to try out.

But it also reminds me how much more fun a 7 hero limit would be with all the possibilities of 64 skills vs 32

I use it for some of my heroes, and just about all of my PvP builds. The PvE build I run on my Ranger has been modified over time from an interrupt build somewhat like one that may have been found on there, but I've made it my own enough that I don't think it's the same kind of build.

I do have a few PvP builds that I've modified more to my playing style than what was on there, but the core ideas came from PvX.

Yeah, if you click the download button it doesn't work. It has been like this for about 2 weeks now. It is still an issue.

I've browsed the wiki builds, gotten a few ideas for making more efficient builds, but I don't think I have any direct copy/paste jobs in anyone's skillbar.

My personal builds aren't too great, but that's okay.

Research only

C. and B. I mostly use the cookie cutters just for farming but sometimes I look at a build and change it around a bit to make my own.

PvX is great for making 7 billion character talk pages

PvE, I look.
Heroes, no.
PvP, no.

I've never, Often browsed through them, never really directly copied from them, but for getting an idea of how things work for a particular class or area I haven't tried yet.

But I have used one farming build from guru, the glacial stone one, but then I did change it a bit.

If it works, use it. Tinker with it, fine tune it. What does it matter where it came from?

i use them as a basic, then i tweak em so that they dont even look from wiki

Never.

A massive part of any game's appeal to me is figuring the underlying mechanics out on my own. Giving up the "eureka" moments of seeing how well X goes with Y would greatly kill a lot of the fun.

For farming. Now that I have alot of pratical experience with most areas in the game I can just make my own builds. Also, I just ask players for builds if I'm new at something. People's homebrews are usually better than what PvXWiki has.

But those builds are SOMEONE's homebrews...

Fixed.

It's a fairly safe assumption that when you put together a good homebrew build, chances are high that someone somewhere has already toyed with a very similar build, or will generate a similar build without ever seeing yours.

I don't think i've ever used one intentionally. but then again the only builds that haven't been used before are the obviously stupid ones

(ex.
Assasin/Elemenalists
Water Attunement, Fire Attunement, Earth Attunement, Air Attunement, Dagger skills for the rest, no healing, no points in anything but assasin skills.ex)

I think it's safe to say that many horribly obviously stupidly bad builds have probably been used before, as well. Every once in a while, though, good ideas that have not been tried before(at least, not seriously by good players) do get tried, and they can often transform the metagame. For example, for a long while, Splinter Weapon in GvG only saw use on Rit flaggers and the very rare Rit midliners(i.e. probably less than 10 times they've been used in serious high-level GvG in the last year outside of ritspike). However, lately, someone noticed, hey, splinter's pretty great even at 10 spec and voila, splinter weapon+ancestor's rage become popular on BSurges.

Never ran lightning on an ele, and since I'm getting through GWEN I need something that isn't fire. Went to PvX and found the dual attune build, tweaked it, and bam.

Sometimes. I use it to get hero skill bars occasionally with some tweaking, most of the time I know the cookie cutter for pvp from playing against it so much that I don't need to look it up. I find it funny that I first found out about the site by being called a pvxwiki noob.

Just tested it out by running outside Sif and aggroing three groups of enemies. Three deaths ocurred, but I never ran out of energy with CONSTANT spamming of high spike damage and blind.

Some people have lives so they don't memorize every skill.

And boys and girls, that's where PvX Wiki comes in.

no, thats where people running touchers and sp sins find an excuse.

dont drag pvx into an excuse for why people tell you you suck.

You're among the reasons why people say that the GW population is among the worst. You can't seem to be able to use your brain in any other way that over-generalise to the point where you have to insult people, or in a mirror way show off how skilled and ub3r l33t you are. Usually, I don't comment on that over-elitist attitude that is akin to slaming the door into people in real life, instead of politely keeping the door open for them. GW may be virtual, but it doesn't hide the reality behind it, and in your case it's not that pretty (yeah I know nothing about you, you may after all only "play a role" in GW and pretend to be someone else, but we rightfully judge you on the basis of what you say on GWG and there's no other way possible). Better be us, who "suck" (sic), than you.

wow, that was great, generalization gets responded to by another generalization, which gets responded to by yet another generalization. That said, people who need to refer to everyone who is more successful at GW(or anything) as having no life(or any similar insult which turns their own failure into a good thing instead of a bad thing) are generally people with some degree of psychological problems.

there is no defence for people who make an excuse for lack of skill by saying "they have a life". thats not an excuse. i only play gw on the weekends, this severely limits my ability to grind out balth points and get titles and experience for pvp. have any of my guildies ever heard me say that as an excuse for why i have totally missed a meta shift? or, for that matter, why i dont have such and such skill unlocked on staurday morning and i have 0 balth? no. and neither has anyone i've ever played with in the last 5 months. because its not an excuse, its an incovenience. saying you use pvx because you have a life is not an excuse. theres nothing wrong with saying you need to use pvx because you dont have time. i have no problem with that. but the way she worded it was obviously pointed towards a different meaning, judging from how she referred to skills and not builds. when you dont have the time you still know what the skills are, you still know their functions, their strengths, their weaknesses, and you understand why the build your pulling off pvx is good(or bad). but when you dont have the knowledge of the skills, their functions, their strength's and their weaknesses, you cant say the excuse is that you have a life. if your having such a life that you cant remeber what rush does, why are you playing the game? oh and btw people who make sweeping generalizations about knowing everyskill and having everything unlocked are just seeking shelter under exaggerations.




also:
i'm glad i wasted abotu 10 minutes of my life posting this because i was able to see edru's epic post above me. Q. F. T.

By spending 10 minutes on a post, that declares you having no life.

Thread hijack by teh carebear/scrub patrol.

i do and i love it

By taking part of your life to tell someone that they don't have a life means that you don't have a life meaning that I don't have a life.