Canthan Grandmaster Cartographer in a day - What's A-Net going to do about it?

oh please. it's a GAME, not life or death.

And TexMod is available to everyone who has the game, so how is it an unfair advantage? It is documented on the OFFICIAL WIKI.

As far as I'm concerned, TextMod's no different than a mission walkthrough.

I hate forum lingo, but QFT.

Remember, you're princiPAL is your friend, and very few are worthy of your death.

I've done tyria GMC without the help of mod's and elona GMC with mod's... Both ways are legit, both ways get the job done...

For me, it's pretty much up to the player itself , considering the time/way they want to use.

Can you politely tell me how it is legit? Considering it effects the time it will take, and MMORPG's are about time.

Keep in mind that I am not saying:

Wiki is fair.
Running is fair.
Paying for something is fair.

so don't reply with 'it's fair because guild wiki is up!'.

Please explain to me clearly, how it is fair? A cheat for tomb raider on playstation one, is still a cheat. Regardless of if the game is now worthless and it's not multiplayer .

I am also not emotional on the subject. I do not really care who cheats, I just want a valid explination. Not one of you have managed to do that, all you have done is quote someone else blindly following them.

I have a one million gold bet on a friend that I will get CGC quicker than he will. I will not be using any mods or outside help to do it. I will just be playing the game, like I would if I had the computer with nothing installed - no internet browsers. Just the game. We are going to make new characters from scratch.

I don't know what my friend will be doing. Do you think he will be able to cheat?

I reckon 100% is 100% regardless of which method you use. A guy using texmod still has to go and map out all those places.

Saying that MMORPG's should be about time only seems a bit self-centred. If you think that's what it should be about, then that's fine, but if others think that it is about getting the task done rather than just putting in the hours then you shouldn't force them to play your way only. The title is about percent mapped, not hours logged.

The best I can do is...

It's legitimate because it is an in-game graphic mod in-line with the guidelines of acceptance stated by Gaile and Emily on the official wiki:

"What I want to say above all about this matter is that if you're going to mod, have fun, but do stick with the benign and positive uses of the programs and create mods that impact the game only in ways that are fun and harmless." -Gaile

"As a general rule of thumb, we don't mind if you do things like this to make your own playing experience more fun." -Emily

From the EULA it says:

"You agree not to use any hardware or software, including but not limited to third party tools, or any other method of support which may in any way influence or advantage your use of the Service which is not authorized by NC Interactive, including but not limited to the use of 'bots' and/or any other method by which the Service may be played automatically without human input."

In my own opinion, since it is not a black and white issue, the prior quotes from the official wiki "authorize" the use of Texmod by NC Interactive, so long as they fall in-line with the wording of those two quotes.

Is it a benign, positive, fun, and harmless mod? Hard to argue since those are all opinionated terms, so I'll give my own take and you can decide which side it falls on. For benign, I take that as meaning 'not harmful', whose opposite would be something like modifying the activation bar texture so that an interrupt bot can be created. Positive would mean it improves rather than detracts, and I'd say that the mod fixes something that was never well-implemented in the game (fog visibility in places, extreme edge revealing, what have you). Harmless? Sure, unless you're one of the those who practice title elitism in which case you would consider it harmful toward your own prestigious status. To me, that is a hollow and selfish stance to take but it's still one available.

Basically, the mod fits within what we've been told is OK given that you accept that the title will now be easier to achieve and consider titles to be personal achievement or some goal to work toward. If you are a 'badge of honor' type, then you'll probably disagree on the "harmless" tag.

As for your bet with your friend, if he uses the mod while you do not then you will most definitely lose.

I find nothing wrong with this mod, whats running around the edge of a map proving anyway?

Here's a thought question: is it okay to use cheat codes in a single-player game?

This question has been hotly debated on gaming forums for years. GMC Textmod is essentially the same issue.

The real question here isn't just what's legal or not, or what affects or players or not. In principle, it actually encompasses the whole of all kinds of gaming aids (is it okay to use strategy guides?), and, at its logical extremity, becomes an issue of general ethics. Some people have the view that people should be allowed to do whatever they want provided that it doesn't affect others. Others view that former group as morally degenerate. Which side you take on this (extremely minor) GMC issue is generally going to mirror which of the above-mentioned camps you are in.

Since when is showing someone how to do something cheating? I saw a book on long-distance runner training the other day, would I be considered a cheater and banned from the Olympics for reading it? No.

Benefiting from someone else's experience is not cheating.

Breaking the rules (i.e. with cheat codes affect your CHARACTER, unlike texmod) is cheating.

Excellent idea. Although anyone can just get Textmod.

ANet says "yes."

I sincerely doubt that wandering around is anyone's idea of fun if you actually have other options. "Wandering" sounds like a huge chore to me.

Shouldn't Guild Wars be about improving the entertainment level?

With this tool, I now realize that I still have a lot to do with this title, opposite to having to retrace my steps everywhere to try and get the missing parts. The mod removed the blindfold and focused my attention to where I actually need to go - something that I'm really grateful for.

Kudos for players who actually took the initiative to improve this portion of the game.

That's because everyone knows that Time spent > Skill, haven't you heard?

According to NCSoft/Arenanet, they don't particularly care if you use Texmod. They haven't done anything to curb any form of cartography assistance, nor the use of various bugs to map, aside from the portal bug, so presumably anything that hasn't been changed is fair, or at least they won't ban you for it.

Playing by the rules of the game, all you have to do to get GMC is map every location, regardless of how you do it. The game doesn't say, "You compared maps to unfog this area, you have to go back and do it again," it says, "You mapped this area, you get another 0.1% to your title."

From the ordinary player's view, less time and effort to accomplish something happens to be a good thing. Asking others for help, comparing maps, or using a mod wouldn't be cheating to them (well, they wouldn't care, same thing.)

From a purist's view, using any outside help cheapens the reward and is cheating. There are also varying views where using x is okay, but using y isn't.


I couldn't care less about the ordinary player's and the purist's views, as those are largely subjective. Objectively, Arenanet doesn't care, and the game doesn't care, so I don't see why I should care.

Yeah, I say yes too, and?

My point is that the issue isn't as cut-and-dry as, "is it allowed?", "is it cheating?" Nobody (at least not anyone I know of) would think that using a strategy guide or FAQ is 'cheating'. However, you'll notice that being able to accomplish something without that kind of help 'means' more. You see this in single-player games all the time - there is a difference, somehow, between playing a perfect game without guides, and doing the same while using every FAQ available.

Cheat codes are much closer to this issue of textmods - neither one affects anyone else, and both are allowed by the game.

I read in a Talk page that this was argued about using a 'clicker' to get the drunk title, and it was shot down. Can anyone comment on this [not opinions please, but actual helpful stuff] ?

It seems to me that the issue and question here is really "what constitudes a cheat?"

I believe a cheat is something that gives you an (unfair) advantage over other players. That allows you to gain something for nothing.

So is the mod a cheat?

It does not give you something for nothing. You still need to map the full 100% of the map by edge scrapping.

It does however make it EASIER. So I ask again, is it a cheat?

I have one cartography title. Close to getting some of the others. Have never used mods, but have made use of the guides (both the literature and the people) on guru and the occassional GIMP session. In getting GMC Cantha I walked some maps as much as 4 or 5 times. Stupid isn't it? Should have edged scraped more carefully. This is what took me the time. If I had edge scrapped porperly the first time through I wouldn't have had this issue.

Some people have edge scraped every map once only (without the use of the tool). These are the people that mapped the quickest, so are they cheats because they didn't have to re-visit areas? I wouldn't have thought so.

Those who edge scrape with the mods do so NO QUICKER than anyone else who edge scrapes properly once over. Simply because I had to map several areas multiple times does NOT make anyone else who mapped therm fewer times than me a cheat.

I'm pretty much resinstating my point to Gaile earlier in the thread:

A lot of people are saying that ANet shouldn't endorse the "cheaters" when ANet themselves are, well, endorsing it, really.

I'm not being all like "Ha HAAAA! Try THIS forum post on fo siiiize, Burst!!!", it was just a safe opportunity for me to bring up a critical point

But to actually add onto your point - about cheat codes and Texmod - I'd have to say it depended on what benefits the cheat code gave (a good example being "does the cheat code give you all the weapons in the game, or does it just give your character a funky costume?")

And as Lozza just stated, this looks like it may be 100% related to personal opinion. One could consider it a complete and unfair advantage, while another may consider it nothing more than a simple hint in the right direction.

you call it a cheat...others call it a visual aide..especially helpful to those GW players with poor vision..
time to get over it..and if you dont care quit posting in here.

Using a wiki walkthrough saves time -- therefore, isn't using Guild Wiki a cheat? After all, you can get the Protector/Guardian titles much faster using a wiki than you can just playing the game.... so how is that nay different from TexMod?

Ignoring those issues, I disagree completely about you definition of an MMO. MMORPGs are about THE EXPERIENCE, not about time. GW provides a rather boring and repetitive experience in exchange for meaningless vanity items... so why not cut down on the tedium by using somethign like TexMod to gain a title that has NO intrinsic menaing or practical effect?

To the OP....

So are people cheating at life when they use Mapquest or Google Earth to look for directions to get somewhere? I see.....Their experience would be much more self gratifying if they just wandered around town until they found the address they were looking for.

For giggles, I decided to get a Cartography Mod to see what areas my Ranger, who is at STUCK at 98.4% in Tyria mind you, missed. Well needless to say I was pissed off at all the little crappy areas that made up for it. What BS! I plan to get the rest of the mods now, because obviously scrapping and going slow through areas sometimes doesn't get it done by itself.

Will it tarnish the title when I do get 100%? Absolutely not. As was stated. A player still has to devote a certain amount of gameplay to getting the title.

So get off your high horse and find something truly meaningful in life to moan about.

this tickels my lol bone

I usually don't post much around here... Generally just lurk around and see what is happing and let sykoone tell me when something else is going on... But I have to say that this has been an amusing thread to watch.

I don't think any of us realized when we created this mod that it would generate this kind of topic. It's beyond me how it could be considered cheating as all it does is make mapping easier for others. They still have to physically go out and do it themselves. I also don't see how it could possibly make someone who did it the hard way feel cheated.

Yes I am the mapper for the Cartography Made Easy mods. The mod didn't exist when I went through any of the campaigns. At times I wish it had, but it didn't. I had to do it the hard way. Yes I have LGMC and I am proud of it. I have a guild member who used it and is still just as proud to have his title as I am. Both of us had to go out and do the work... He only got the option of seeing where he needed to go. Yes I know there are spots that I missed... That shows just how much variance there is in the mapping system.

Am I worried about what others think of me for giving people an easier way to do it? Not at all. All this has done is generate alot of publicity for the mod and brought it to the attention of Gaile Gray. We all know ANET's stand on things like this as it has been pointed to numerous times. Am I worried about what they think about it... Not at all... although I am curious to see what or if they make any other comments about it.

Would I do it again if it wasn't already done ? You bet. I have been playing this game since it first came out and still enjoy it today, and will be updating the others as soon as the holiday event is over. We started this whole mod to help guildies and decided to release it so others could enjoy it as well. Not everyone will use it...Not everyone will like it...It doesn't give anyone any unfair advantages like other mods do which I won't discuss, so I don't see why anyone needs to worry about it so much...

Also just a side note... One of the developers of these mods still does not have any of his cartography titles done. He isn't worried about getting it.

Just have fun... get along... don't worry about what others do or think if it doesn't affect you. Makes the game a whole lot more enjoyable.

IGN: Rider Of Storms

okay, first of all, its quite bad for me to argue something I've not use before, but to my understanding, besides the map overlay this mods also finds for you spots that has not been un-covered/ mapped/ or are your character has not been too before. is that correct?

If that is correct, it is programming. and a bot that finds un-mapped area on your map.

It's a replacement for your fog - that fog exists in the GW client, and all the map mod does is make it easier to see.

It's no programming.

what about the finding and marking of the spot that you couldn't find?


besides we already have a un-fog map U

I don't really understand what you're pointing out, sorry in advance if it takes a while to get through to me :P Finding and marking of the spots you couldn't find? How so? All it does is change the color of the fog, and show stronger outlines around the fog borders.

Like, does the mod say "whoop, you missed a spot, go back" (not exactly, but in a manner of speaking?)

No. The only thing that these mods are doing is replacing images (hench Texmod.)

You're the guy that made those mods?

Well, got only one thing to say to you...

Thanks a lot man!

Karyuu: see this picture

what is that square beneath The Wild? is it mark places that you've not been to before?

Like I said, it changes the color of your fog. That square still exists without Texmod using the default fog color.

Basically, before textmod, folks used reference maps. Before then, a few folks just did it.

Using the textmod mod is no more cheating than using a reference map and photoshop to flip between pictures. It's just a whole lot easier. I'm convinced that the first few folks who did cartographer shared reference maps with each other to get the full picture.

Bottom line is, I did Cantha and Elona with the flip-map method, and now that I've taken the plunge with the textmod solution for my last 5% of Tyria, I won't be going back.

yeah if they actively go after soemthing like this then they may as well go after the wikis as well. They're ultimately gamers themselves which means there's probably an elitist mindset in there as well which will become prevalent (oh wait, that makes it easier, let's get it). I haven't used it, got my carts and I don't care if people use it. In fact, if people don't have to hunt for it then so much the better. The thing is, when real cartographers went out mapping, they didn't have to go run up against a wall for a little piece to pop out (I'm talking real life), they just went to the areas they could and mapped it. Believe me also that when you're in-game, if you're just wanting to show it off, then it's not a prestigious title. Be prepared for the tons of 'play the game' and 'no life' comments that you will get.

The better solution would be to make the blocks that are revealed larger than they are now so that characters would have to still go into all the areas of the map, but without the idiotic 'hugging the wall' to get a few pixels to pop. I swear. Much of what ANet does is pretty good, but some of the other hairbrained things make me think they left Blizzard before they flopped out (founder being the exception).

Why do we all continue arguing about this?

The op just want to be the only one that have the title, he want to be superior. That's find with me, I'm not shouting people that uses GW to know how to defeat Shiro, despite I did kill him before any suggestions was made, and you must believe me it was hard.

And, this is not going to anywhere, people that think that it is ok will continue thinking their way, the same for the opposite ones. Also, as Gayle has said, she doubt that anything will be done in GW1.

The official wiki tells you how to use Texmod.

Indeed.

I love Karyuu more and more.

It's astonishing how people focus their character's development on the achievement of others. It's the same people that buy FoW, rare weapons, not because they like it but to impress and show off.

I know I'm chiming in here a bit late, and I know Gaile won't read this response, but I hope Anet carefully considers their blind eye position to modding. They started the path down the slippery slope of being permissive to mods which give in-game advantages before, and now it has re-manifested itself. Each time, a small segment of the community feels alienated. Those segments add up.

Is using TexMod cheating? I can't answer specific questions about "Is this use cheating?" and "Is this use ok?" I can link you to some statements I've made on the subject, with the approval of Mike O'Brien, co-founder of ArenaNet.

Here's the wiki post that may help. (It is linked to materials that are months old, so don't mind the commentary above -- those issues are fully resolved.)

But I do understand that the larger issue is the question of whether the use of the mod in this instance is acceptable. A title once took months and a lot of ingenuity to acquire. Now, it can be obtained with virtually zero ingenuity (other than finding the mod and installing it ) and in a matter of days. Does that concern us? Would we ban someone who "exploited" the game in that manner? I honestly don't think so, but I truly do not know.

I have sent an email to Mike O'Brien asking him specifically about this. Again, I don't think that anyone needs to be overly concerned about this, but for your peace of mind, I will inquire and get back to you with the answer to this particular question.

Please understand that this thread did not "stir the pot" or cause us to place any undue attention on this question, or on modding as a whole. There is some rather heated commentary directed at the OP, where in fact his question is both practical and philosophical, and is nothing about which we were previously unaware. Also, it didn't cause a focus, or the arming of some sort of "ban gun" or "nerf bat."