Update: 13 Nov. 07 - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Sekkira

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2005

Canberra, AU

14 Nov 2007 at 08:01 - 361

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shanaeri Rynale

Logically pets not leaving corpses makes little sense, why would'nt a fleshy animal leave a corpse? Maybe the ranger feels so bad about having it die it morally wont make a minion out of it - lol.

In all seriousness for PvE, Pets with no corpses is no biggy, neither is the soul reaping change. There are other builds that work besides B/P... I do get the feeling that Anet must want the cookie cutter masses to use that stupid bear skill instead tho

When my Elementalist can destroy a group and burn them to oblivion with a bit of arm waving, I stop looking at the game as something logical.

arcanemacabre

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Feb 2006

North Kryta Province

Angel Sharks [As]

14 Nov 2007 at 08:04 - 362

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sekkira

Listen very carefully:

A MINION MASTER IS NOT VIABLE IN EVERY AREA. DEAL WITH IT.

Good lord, man. First of all, who said anything about minion masters? There are these spells called "wells," you know. Secondly, that's not even the point. There are zones, most notably dungeons, that have many exploitable corpses in some areas, but not in others. This is fine for an MM since the minions are mobile. This is not fine for wells. It isn't usually a problem, though, unless the team (as I mentioned before) comes under heavy fire for whatever reason (generally mistakes like over-aggro or improper preparation), or are facing a single, tough boss and nothing is dying (like Remnant of Antiquities, which I also mentioned earlier). An exploitable pet corpse helps in these areas.

Again, I'll live, everyone else will live, who cares. This isn't a big deal to me, at all. It's just barely big enough for me to post about it - that's it. It looks like you're taking it much more personally than pretty much anyone complaining about any nerfs. Perhaps you should take a deep breath and relax a bit, no?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sekkira

ASIDE FROM PVP EXPLOITATION

So, do you agree it should be PvP-only, like pet DP? It sounds like you do.

cyberjanet

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2007

The Netherlands

Rich Mahogany

N/

14 Nov 2007 at 08:05 - 363

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scary Raebbit

PvE has enough corpses, unless you're doing it wrong.

When I last looked at DoA, the pet corpse was essential for the rebirthing monk to Consume Corpse outside the gates. Has anything changed since I was last there?

blue.rellik

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2007

Melbourne, Australia

None

W/

14 Nov 2007 at 08:06 - 364

Why did you even bring pets anyway? You have Ursan

Tylos Angelheart

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2007

Leigon of the Shattered Dagger

R/Mo

14 Nov 2007 at 08:07 - 365

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

Why do pets no longer leave corpses....-.o

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleeper Service

Player Pets: no longer leave exploitable corpses.

WTF.

as a ranger i agree WTF!!!!!!

nice job on barrage though XD

Faer

La-Li-Lu-Le-Lo

Join Date: Feb 2006

14 Nov 2007 at 08:10 - 366

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyberjanet

When I last looked at DoA, the pet corpse was essential for the rebirthing monk to Consume Corpse outside the gates. Has anything changed since I was last there?

When I last looked at DoA (a good few hours ago), it wasn't necessary to have Rebirth, Consume Corpse, or a pet at all to complete it. I've never had the... pleasure... of playing RebirthCCway, so maybe you can explain that one to me.

crossound

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2006

Eastern USA

14 Nov 2007 at 08:16 - 367

I actually read all 21 pages. I play my assassin probably 60% time when I'm logged into guildwars. I believe if horns of the ox is going to stay at the damage it is now the conditional part of the knockdown should be removed or changed.

Trampling ox did do kind of a lot of damage but decreasing it to what it is now is too low. Since they have to be crippled to begin with. Shadow prison sin is just not dead its just gone from the one you see every where. I was just in Alliance battle and its just as lethal just have to run Shadow Prison +7 different skills.

I think mostly its people who try to run new builds who get owned by people using your everyday build thats what needs balance. I mean I see things that would make you cry in RA and AB. I almost feel kind of bad for winning.

Longasc

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2005

14 Nov 2007 at 08:19 - 368

I cannot believe it that he buffed Barrage.

If they continue to buff stuff that is mainly/only used in PvE to heaven, they should do the final step and create two seperate GW games, one for PvP, one for PvE.

As if Barrage was not already dominant enough in PvE, besides BHA as alternative.

Regarding pets, not that it hurts me too much, stuff just gets more artifical by the day, see soul reaping. He finally removed energy gain from spirits after several months, after fiddling around with SR changes for months.

As if Necros would see much play in PvP besides the SR based gimmicks. But against this, nothing is done. Almost as bad as the situation of Mesmers in PvE.

Regarding Horns of the Ox, um... there are pvp gametypes where Sins are a common sight, and making one common skill take the blame/nerf for this is rather "meh". BTW, now you won't see MORE AoD sins, guaranteed. :>

Shanaeri Rynale

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2005

DVDF(Forums)

Me/N

14 Nov 2007 at 08:23 - 369

You'd think Anet just removed the entire ranger, assasin or necro profession. Just change the build, try new stuff or shock horror if you don't enjoy playing it, don't.

Moloch Vein

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2007

Reactive Hexing Sucks

[Thay]

N/

14 Nov 2007 at 08:26 - 370

Very well. I now anxiously await the about, oh, 10 or 20 or so updates boosting the necromancer skill line to compensate for this butchery.

Wait, there will be none? Why didn't you say so.

bungusmaximus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

Guild Of Handicrafted Products [MaSS]

W/Mo

14 Nov 2007 at 08:28 - 371

* Black Lotus Strike: decreased Energy gain to 5..18; this skill now counts as a lead attack.
Sweeeet, about time.
* Expose Defenses: decreased duration to 1..11 seconds.
Sweeeet, about time.
* Horns of the Ox: decreased damage to 1..11.
Bad, I liked the skill, it wasn't too overpowered imo. Why nerf that and not nerf DA sins?
* Impale: increased casting time to 1 second.
Good, anyone who pays attention can interrupt it now, interesting fix.
* Trampling Ox: decreased damage to 5..20.
It was a good skill, it's not that sins shouldn't have some KD at all, but I guess it had to be more or less on par with hoto, shame.

* Ineptitude: increased recharge time to 20 seconds.
I found clumsiness to be more dangerous, insane short recharge ftl.

* Word of Healing Word of Healing: decreased unconditional heal amount to 5..130.
It was overbuffed imo, so :P

* Soul Reaping: no longer gains any benefit from Spirits.
Soul Reaping from spirits fix isn't bad for PvE, even in a place like tombs baddies dying should be enough. If baddies aren't dying you're doing it wrong anyways. N/Rt is still viable.

* Barrage: increased damage to 5..20 damage.
nice, but the damage gain is peanuts compared to the loss of splinter weapon. And buffing this and nerfing pets at the same time doesn't make sense. Barrage is baed in almost any other build then B/P.
* Magebane Shot: increased disable time to 10 seconds; decreased recharge time to 5 seconds.
Scares me, any opinions? I think it's too strong.
* Player Pets: no longer leave exploitable corpses.
Lolwut no corpses from pets? Last time I checked there was no monster skill around called 'Vaporize Pet'. pointless fix. But fervent tombs players shouldn't lose hope, there's much better builds then B/P builds that kill stuff faster and do more damage. And apart from that I think it's still safe to use B/P.

upier

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Done.

[JUNK]

14 Nov 2007 at 08:34 - 372

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sniper22

Anet hates necros. What hasn't been nerfed from anet. 10 minion maximum, veratas sacrifice, jagged bones, soul reaping, surprised they haven't nerfed the 1 hp bip yet. They also nerfed my solo fow Hm build by buffing up woh. Can't we finally get a buff for necros!?!?!?!!?!?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

Good.
Good. NOW GET RID OF THIS STUPID TIMER BULLSHIT! Zero energy from spirits, no stupid timers, just like people were saying months ago.

No, seriously, get rid of it. It serves no purpose any longer. With no SR from spirits and Jagged Bones retaining its long recharge, there's no way left to build an infinite energy cycle using the original SR mechanic. (And with EotN as the final installment, no new ways are going to come into existence.) Timer or no timer makes no difference in PvP now. And you can't seriously tell me that any pretense of PvE "balance" hasn't been completely given up with the inclusion of skills like Ursan Blessing. It can no longer be argued with a striaght face that "SR was nerfed (partly) for the sake of PvE balance." So, the timer: (1) No longer has any effect on PvP; (2) Has a negative effect on PvE; and (3) Is strongly and almost-universally hated among necromancer players. Get. Rid. Of. The. Timer. Now. Please.

------------------------------------------

To reiterate the two key points just to make sure they aren't missed:

1) No Soul Reaping from spirits is good, BUT NOW GET RID OF THE DAMNED TIMER!

Necros are the easy mode for PvE-casters.
Not only are the skills at their disposal insane for PvE - it's the whole SR issue that just makes them blow up.
Necro are the best PvE class.

Quote:

Originally Posted by VAK

Ineptitude... there goes my PvE mesmer.... >_>

Clumsiness is what makes Illusion usable in PvE.
Ineptitude is just the icing on the cake.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MMSDome

O well at least paragons didnt get nerfed this time...
*Knock on wood*

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Raenef

PARAGONS. FIX THEM. Izzy, I am depending on you to make Paragons used more, but watch the skills you choose. Shouts, more effective, last longer than one or two attacks, change Aggressive Refrain to 10 energy, you get a speed attack bonus for say, 8...16 seconds, as a shout, it ends prematurely if you use another shout or chant. Leadership attribute.

I want my Paragon to be awesome, not a heaping pile of "No one plays Paragons, GTFO!" or "Paragons suck you noob!"

The problem with paragons is that 1 paragon might seem a bit sucky.
Add a second one (or a third!) and the paragons on the team aren't just a sum of their parts anymore. They blow up.
They are pretty much the most insane force in the game right now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lugosi

Now one last thing that I keep wondering about (not related to today's skill-balance):
People keep bringing up how super-easy PvE is (NM as well as HM), because of UB. And some of these people also constantly ask for an UB-nerf.

First of all: Not everybody has EotN, I myself for example don't have it (yet), I've seen lots of statements from people that they didn't get it either, I also know people who *only* have the prophecies campaign (so they don't even have heroes at their disposal).
So here's the worst case: You don't have heroes, you don't have any PvE-only skills, only the (ever changing) skills of one campaign, and you have to make due with that. Isn't PvE super-easy now? I bet, especially hard mode.
Don't always assume that every single player has each and every campaign/expansion (even if you think they should).
If something from a certain campaign (or expansion) makes PvE unchallenging for you, don't just generalize that "PvE is super-easy", because what makes it so easy for you might not be accessible for somebody else.

But you are aware that A.net is trying to SELL a product and not to entertain you? If you don't have all the chapters and have issues - then that is your problem because it's your choice.

On the topic of the balance:
Not liking the whole pets leaving no corpses.
EW seems a bit insane.
The other changes are on the scale from "OK" to "don't really care".

blue.rellik

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2007

Melbourne, Australia

None

W/

14 Nov 2007 at 08:37 - 373

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

Very well. I now anxiously await the about, oh, 10 or 20 or so updates boosting the necromancer skill line to compensate for this butchery.

Wait, there will be none? Why didn't you say so.

Because spirits was like the entire foundation on Soul Reaping.

Avarre

Bubblegum Patrol

Join Date: Dec 2005

Singapore Armed Forces

14 Nov 2007 at 08:46 - 374

Quote:

Ineptitude... there goes my PvE mesmer.... >_>

I don't see how people can complain about the Ineptitude change when this is is a reversion to the older recharge time iirc. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Sab

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2005

14 Nov 2007 at 08:48 - 375

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moloch Vein

Very well. I now anxiously await the about, oh, 10 or 20 or so updates boosting the necromancer skill line to compensate for this butchery.

Wait, there will be none? Why didn't you say so.

Soul Reaping is still the best energy management in PvE.

AnnaCloud9

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Aug 2005

Minnesota

Well if you're bored, then you're boring!

R/

14 Nov 2007 at 08:55 - 376

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

Pets.... eh. B/P groups still work. You can make a nice minon army by just killing the enemies. I've played MM in enough of the Tombs/Urgoz groups to know that pets are useful more as meat shields along with the minions then as actual minion factories (really, when I play in BP groups, the pets don't usually die that often since your team should roll through the PvE groups so quickly).

I just tried my 3-pet all hero/hench group in Tombs after the change to pet corpses...and I spent a whole 5 extra minutes completing the entire thing (which takes only an hour)...and that was because I actually had to use the restroom when I got to Scarred Earth.

Honestly, are people so helpless (and hopeless for that matter) that before even trying things after an update such as this, they'd rather piss and moan about how Guild Wars has ruined their gaming experience for life?

Nevermind, looking through 15+ pages of pissing and moaning has answered my own question.

Redfeather1975

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2006

Apartment#306

Rhedd Asylum

Me/

14 Nov 2007 at 08:57 - 377

bungusmaximus, Magebane does look strong.
But it's weird. It's an elite...so it really should be better than something like Power Lock as a whole.
It has flight time and blind to deal with too. I don't know.

mr_groovy

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2006

Netherlands

No Inherent Effect [NiE]

14 Nov 2007 at 09:00 - 378

Pet died -> No body -> So It really din't die just pretends to be dead -> No all skills recharching

.

Hmm why did Anet nerf soulreaping to timed based in the first place again? >.>

arcanemacabre

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Feb 2006

North Kryta Province

Angel Sharks [As]

14 Nov 2007 at 09:00 - 379

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sab

Soul Reaping is still the best energy management in PvE.

Agreed. Now we just need a slight buff to Energy Storage, as it is beginning to look like the weakest Primary.

kooomar

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Oct 2006

Pow Pow Pow [myau]

Mo/E

14 Nov 2007 at 09:03 - 380

3 things

1) I literally laugh at every single person says that a pet not leaving a corpse is unrealistic
"Oh man, my trained super crap died while attacking a giant undead beast in a place that has breathing walls, thats so unrealistic that theres no corpse to make an animated minion from"

2) People saying PvPers need to adapt is silly, and no, Im not talking crap on pve, I do it too, but PvPers cant adapt in the same way you can in PvE. for example, when doing gvg, you cant go to wiki and type in "GvG" and see exactly what build you are going to fight, and the best ways to counter it, instead you have to bring something that counters alot of builds, but can't counter everything, there are only 64 skills per team.

3)This update rocks, the SR timer should be removed imo, as its not really necessary anymore, but if its not removed, I could care less. Sins got hit pretty hard, but I think they needed it. One thing I don't understand is the complaining over HotO. EVERY sin (almost) used it, this doesnt seem to be prejudice to sins, it happens with every skill "oh, 99% of people use that skill on all monks, lets nerf it" It just makes sense to nerf a skill EVERYONE (almost) uses.

/signed for the update, hats off to ya

dont feel no pain

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2005

Uk,Wales

14 Nov 2007 at 09:04 - 381

I also agree magebane shot is amazing.... use while you can i say

Linteo

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jul 2007

R/Mo

14 Nov 2007 at 09:06 - 382

barrage barrage, now i am happy

and that pet corpse, heh, atleast they didnt change that player or hench cant leave a corpse, those necrominionmasters can still make his undead army from his own team!

D

ReiNaruto

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2007

Valencia, Spain

Green Arse Team

14 Nov 2007 at 09:09 - 383

Why dont make pets dont leave a corpse in PvP and leave the in peace on PvE?

Is not the first thing that works different between the two worlds, look at some heroes IA.

arcanemacabre

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Feb 2006

North Kryta Province

Angel Sharks [As]

14 Nov 2007 at 09:13 - 384

Quote:

Originally Posted by kooomar

1) I literally laugh at every single person says that a pet not leaving a corpse is unrealistic
"Oh man, my trained super crap died while attacking a giant undead beast in a place that has breathing walls, thats so unrealistic that theres no corpse to make an animated minion from"

I'm not getting back into this, I just want to point out that you misunderstand the claim of 'unrealism.' It has nothing to do with a comparison to real-life, it has to do with a comparison to in-game mechanics. Animals leave exploitable corpses. Yet, for some reason, now that same animal, when charmed, doesn't. That is what's unrealistic.

Besides, your example doesn't really hold together, either. There are plenty of monsters out there, who leave exploitable corpses, that are smaller than the average ranger pet. Size has nothing to do with anything.

Surena

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2007

N/Me

14 Nov 2007 at 09:13 - 385

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sab

Soul Reaping is still the best energy management in PvE.

True.

And Minionmasters suck, they're a wasted slot, inefficient and only giving you the illusion of actually contributing something. A useless wall of bones while you could actually kill much faster with a better character.

I don't hear my Necro complaining.

Now while the pet corpse thing seems a bit arkward, the spirit abuse finally finds its justified end.

Now we need to nerf RaO, Deadly Arts and the Tree.

CHunterX

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2005

Washington

W/E

14 Nov 2007 at 09:13 - 386

Based on game lore, the only things that don't leave exploitable corpses are undead and spirits (EDIT: and golems). Are pets now considered either?

arcanemacabre

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Feb 2006

North Kryta Province

Angel Sharks [As]

14 Nov 2007 at 09:15 - 387

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHunterX

Based on game lore, the only things that don't leave exploitable corpses are undead and spirits. Are pets now considered either?

You're forgetting things like golems, elementals, graven monoliths, etc. But yeah, true that.

Glider of chaos

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2006

A/N

14 Nov 2007 at 09:17 - 388

well... What do I have to say?
I run assassin as my primary and my assumptions are based on resent sin nerf. On the other hand I'll try to avoid typical "give me my HoTO back!" stuff. Instead I'll try to view this situation as a whole.

It's actually not the nerf itself that worries me the most but the style of Izzy's balancing...
He claims that he wants more diversity in a game. To achieve this he takes the most popular stuff and hits it HARD. The problem is that with this sin nerf no buffs were introduced to promote alternative builds to play with. Not to mention that some nerfed skills were not broken by any means (it's not like I point at HoTO

). This general trend of "lets kill the most popular thing and look if players will use more builds now" is very worrying IMO. I can understand it when some builds are broken... but when it happens to builds that are not all that great comparing to other professions it's kinda sad.

Basically this update narrows the assassins "skills of choice" list once again. Now we're pretty much stuck with 3 or 4 builds I think - Deadly arts caster, Moebius-Death blossom spam and Aura of Displacement gank. There are unblockable builds with Shattering Assault (those are sub-par in terms of damage I think) and some Way of the Master builds as well (way fragile in the means of being totally enchantment-dependent)

Nothing is done to promote assassins to high-level pvp and they still mostly belong to RA/TA/AB where they take advantage of not-so-good players who have less HP and like to go solo. Few nerfs may change this as well. Nerf Deadly Paradox again, add healthy recharge to Way of the Master and Death Blossom, increase Shattering Assault cost - and - yay, here we go! Assassins are not a threat anymore!

/sigh

PS Sorry, I tried to keep it civil and thoughtful but I couldn't resist an urge to add a little rant in the very end %)

bungusmaximus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

Guild Of Handicrafted Products [MaSS]

W/Mo

14 Nov 2007 at 09:22 - 389

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surena

And Minionmasters suck, they're a wasted slot, inefficient and only giving you the illusion of actually contributing something. A useless wall of bones while you could actually kill much faster with a better character.

Pretty bland statement, minion master do have their uses, they're overrated that's all. Who says the wall of bones can't kill?

besides that, 1 word: [wiki]barbs[/wiki]

Koyasha Li

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Jul 2006

14 Nov 2007 at 09:26 - 390

For b/ps that do the Tombs in hard mode, I can understand. If you're in a fast group, you get through with that in 30 minutes. Thus greens, ectos, gold/grape drops, plus different tome drops for a 30 minute run? Rock on.

Ah well, balanced groups are really not that bad. I made it through Tombs before with them a couple of times. This was in normal mode a while back - I haven't tried it in hard mode yet. I'm sure it could be done, though. If people want to farm it badly enough, they'll find a way.

CHunterX

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2005

Washington

W/E

14 Nov 2007 at 09:27 - 391

Quote:

Originally Posted by bungusmaximus

Pretty bland statement, minion master do have their uses, they're overrated that's all. Who says the wall of bones can't kill?

Especially when an MM runs Order of Undeath. Damage bonus can get into the 300+ per cast of it, regardless of minion type. Not to mention TEN MEAT SHIELDS YOUR MONK DOESN'T HAVE TO DEAL WITH.

arcanemacabre

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Feb 2006

North Kryta Province

Angel Sharks [As]

14 Nov 2007 at 09:32 - 392

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHunterX

Especially when an MM runs Order of Undeath. Damage bonus can get into the 300+ per cast of it, regardless of minion type. Not to mention TEN MEAT SHIELDS YOUR MONK DOESN'T HAVE TO DEAL WITH.

Oh yeah, exactly. They make excellent meat shields. When playing my monk with an MM on the team, I noticed quite a few battles where not a single party member took any damage at all thanks to the meat shields.

When I MM, I always run OoU along with that second necro with Barbs and MoP... talk about laying waste to everything. Sorry, but SS just can't compare to that kind of WMD.

EDIT:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surena

A single well-setup Paragon > walls of minions.

In case you didn't realize, those walls of minions are coming from a single, well-setup Necro. More targets for the enemy + Much more damage > Reduced damage to the party members. But hey, why not have the best of both worlds and carry both, like me?

ManMadeGod

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2005

14 Nov 2007 at 09:33 - 393

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redfeather1975

bungusmaximus, Magebane does look strong.
But it's weird. It's an elite...so it really should be better than something like Power Lock as a whole.
It has flight time and blind to deal with too. I don't know.

You can spam Magebane (blindly) now, even you fail, you deal some dmg and it's not blockable now!
And it only costs you 2~3 energy.

dont feel no pain

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2005

Uk,Wales

14 Nov 2007 at 09:35 - 394

magebane + serpents qiickness ftw ^^, you can completely shutdown an caster (within reason)

Surena

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2007

N/Me

14 Nov 2007 at 09:37 - 395

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHunterX

Especially when an MM runs Order of Undeath. Damage bonus can get into the 300+ per cast of it, regardless of minion type. Not to mention TEN MEAT SHIELDS YOUR MONK DOESN'T HAVE TO DEAL WITH.

Why do you need meat shields when you have "Save Yourselves" and "TNTF" (plus also were foes don't leave corpses)? PvE skils are there for a reason.

bungusmaximus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

Guild Of Handicrafted Products [MaSS]

W/Mo

14 Nov 2007 at 09:38 - 396

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surena

Why do you need meat shields when you have "Save Yourselves" and "TNTF" (plus also were foes don't leave corpses)? PvE skils are there for a reason.

Except that I don't use lolzPvE skills, but that's more my own problem. I'm not going to blame people for using the tools available.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surena

A single well-setup Paragon > walls of minions.

Fair enough, completely PWNED Oolas dungeon with that. Golems are sissies, "Stand Your Ground!" rocks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Koyasha Li

I haven't tried it in hard mode yet. I'm sure it could be done, though. If people want to farm it badly enough, they'll find a way.

1 SS/MoP necro with enfeebling blood, SyG paragon with gfte, 3 b/p rangers, 2 of sab's N/Rt, 1 mm, blows away normal B/P any day when played right.

arcanemacabre

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Feb 2006

North Kryta Province

Angel Sharks [As]

14 Nov 2007 at 09:42 - 397

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surena

Why do you need meat shields when you have "Save Yourselves" and "TNTF" (plus also were foes don't leave corpses)? PvE skils are there for a reason.

Because you don't always have a spare human Paragon player sitting around. Heroes MM just fine without any PvE skills.

Surena

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2007

N/Me

14 Nov 2007 at 09:48 - 398

Quote:

Originally Posted by bungusmaximus

Except that I don't use lolzPvE skills, but that's more my own problem. I'm not going to blame people for using the tools available.

So bringing a MM is nobler than using overpowered PvE skills? Chivalry doesn't belong here. That's not an argument speaking for them. I'm not putting words in your mouth but considering what we have available you'd think twice to consider MMs as a valid and important template in nowadays PvE.

Moloch Vein

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2007

Reactive Hexing Sucks

[Thay]

N/

14 Nov 2007 at 09:50 - 399

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sab

Soul Reaping is still the best energy management in PvE.

As well it should be. A class with no other function of their primary attribute than providing energy, with slow spells that cost a fortune, limited energy pool and almost no skills in their primary attribute should have the best energy management in the game.

The timer was added to stop the spiritway "exploit". The spiritway "exploit". is. removed.

A comparison: The energy management function of critical strikes is tied to the assassin hitting something. The energy management of a necromancer is tied to things dying. What is more likely?

Do assassins usually run out of energy? How about paragons, do they frequently get e-denied?

What amazes me the most is how people still clamor for more nerfs to the most nerfed primary in Guild Wars.

RhanoctJocosa

Legendary Korean

Join Date: Aug 2006

The Benecia Renovatio [RenO]

W/

14 Nov 2007 at 09:50 - 400

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

Agreed. Now we just need a slight buff to Energy Storage, as it is beginning to look like the weakest Primary.

I'd say it's strength.