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Originally Posted by Gargle Blaster
Mesmer: inept - 15 sec recharge was fitting - nobody was complaining that its too powerful
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Update: 13 Nov. 07
Divinus Stella
Racthoh
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Originally Posted by Gargle Blaster
Mesmer: inept - 15 sec recharge was fitting - nobody was complaining that its too powerful
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bungusmaximus
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Originally Posted by B/P_Ranger
I know this, and I am not a lunatic. I quit playing Diablo 2 because of skill nerfs and lack of player support. You think that this or any other game is any different. Keep nerfing skills, don't listen to the players, and I am one of those who will move on.
Doesn't make me a lunatic. Those who cheer every move anet makes whether its good for the game or not are sheep. |
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Originally Posted by Racthoh
People were, that and Clumsiness.
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Antheus
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Originally Posted by B/P_Ranger
I know this, and I am not a lunatic. I quit playing Diablo 2 because of skill nerfs and lack of player support. You think that this or any other game is any different. Keep nerfing skills, don't listen to the players, and I am one of those who will move on.
Doesn't make me a lunatic. Those who cheer every move anet makes whether its good for the game or not are sheep. |
It wasn't until grind titles were added that player numbers went up. PvE = grind. The more, the better.
While GW was designed with different concept in mind, that has changed. The main attraction for masses is maxing out the titles. The main attraction of Diablo was item farming.
Who is upset over bp nerf? Tombs farmers. Nobody has mentioned Urgoz, for example. And tombs, of all places, which has poor loot, is very easily done with any build (this isn't 2005 anymore, hundreds of new skills were added), most of which are faster than bp.
As long as there is grind, players will flock to GW. And that's the bottom line. Just look at crying over loot scaling. Hard-core farmers ragequit, there was no impact on the rest.
I wonder what will happen once Ursan gets nerfed.
Abedeus
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Originally Posted by Phoenix Tears
Monk
Word of Healing: decreased unconditional heal amount to 5..130. =============== first they buff it...then they nerf it -.- lol Miscellaneous Changed the elite skill used by the henchman Mhenlo in Eye of the North to Word of Healing. lol, clear, where you made now the successful deathnerf of LoD Monks, couldn't you just remove only the annoying 80% limit and let the heal ammount in peace ? , imo LoD isnt worth it anymore to be called an Elite .. tooo long cast time, when used alone, and theoverall heal is crap, there the player can just use the normal group heal skill that heals now through the buff better |
LoD - it doesn't have 80% limit anymore. It's now a cheaper version of Heal Party.
And moar grammer plx.
Akaraxle
GO IZZY GO GO GO!
B/P tombs oh noes that took much skill amirite
B/P tombs oh noes that took much skill amirite
Big_Iron
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Originally Posted by Akaraxle
GO IZZY GO GO GO!
B/P tombs oh noes that took much skill amirite |
Spike
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Originally Posted by lyra_song
To anyone saying "Quit QQing. PvE is easy" or "Theres Ursaway" need to realize that even if PvE is easy, or there is alternatives, it doesn't take away from the annoyance of having things changed around on you.
Thats the grievance, and its a legimate grievance, so stop belittle-ing the other players. -.- And that includes some of you mods here. |
Savio
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Originally Posted by Spike
Because in busness are you not suppose to PLEASE most of the people most of the time not annoy them?
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DDL
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Originally Posted by bungusmaximus
In GW, skill nerf = player support. Believe it or not, PvP would utterly suck if nerfs and buffs weren't implemented every now and then. These current changes are a pretty good example that aNet DOES listen to players, provided those players know what they are talking about of course. Can't go game balancing around players who are baed.
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Nobody is refuting this, but you do have to appreciate that from the PvE perspective it often looks like a long line of "if it ain't broke, change it for the worse". Essential changes to the overused PvP skill builds propagate over into the PvE realm where the problems were usually not there in the first place.
So at least try to understand WHY people find this sort of thing annoying.
Also, to be perfectly honest, you can't go balancing a game around players who are top-level AWESOME, either: you end up making a game where you need to be twitchy as a ferret and twice as cunning just to get anywhere. And the general incidence of such people in the game buying population is...small. And most of them are playing counterstrike.
"Baed" is an entirely relative concept, to boot: if someone can't do stuff you can, are they bad? Does that make you "average"? Everyone has their own definition of "bad", and the definitions rarely overlap.
Jetdoc
Interesting update. A big two thumbs up for the change to Soul Reaping, although I'd love to see a few more changes because of it:
1. Remove minions from triggering Soul Reaping. Kind of makes sense since minions don't have souls, just like spirits (at least lore-wise).
2. Revert spirits back to their original health. Now that the SR engine is not spirit dependant, I'm not sure why the nerf to spirit health is still needed.
3. Revert the timer back to the original Soul Reaping. No need for this nerf anymore if the controllable deaths have now been removed from the energy gain.
I personally don't have any problem with pets not leaving exploitable corpses, although it will require a bit more patience and ingenuity in certain areas.
1. Remove minions from triggering Soul Reaping. Kind of makes sense since minions don't have souls, just like spirits (at least lore-wise).
2. Revert spirits back to their original health. Now that the SR engine is not spirit dependant, I'm not sure why the nerf to spirit health is still needed.
3. Revert the timer back to the original Soul Reaping. No need for this nerf anymore if the controllable deaths have now been removed from the energy gain.
I personally don't have any problem with pets not leaving exploitable corpses, although it will require a bit more patience and ingenuity in certain areas.
moriz
strangely enough, none of these supposed pve catastrophes affect me. nor had any other skill nerfs affected my pve performance.
is it because i'm simply better at pve than every pve'er here? or maybe these "grievances" are not as big as you all make them out to be? who knows.
is it because i'm simply better at pve than every pve'er here? or maybe these "grievances" are not as big as you all make them out to be? who knows.
Yanman.be
Moriz, people simply do not want to change...
Bankai
Strangely enough, everybody is shouting these things:
1) Izzy doesn't care about PvE
-Barrage got buffed and Mhenlo got WoH after people complained about it
2) Necros have never received a buff
-That's because a lot of the skills are already overpowered like hell, and they simply don't need buffs
3) Pet nerf has completely screwed up PvE
-It's PvE. There's corpses every-RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing-where.
4) The sin class is now useless
-The sin class has always been useful, but the SP bar was so good that nobody ever realized what else the sin class could do
5) PvP game balance destroys PvE game balance
-PvE doesn't need game balance. Almost everything is already really easy. The problem is that a lot of people are too dumb to adapt to situations, and still do stuff like running SF versus destroyers.
1) Izzy doesn't care about PvE
-Barrage got buffed and Mhenlo got WoH after people complained about it
2) Necros have never received a buff
-That's because a lot of the skills are already overpowered like hell, and they simply don't need buffs
3) Pet nerf has completely screwed up PvE
-It's PvE. There's corpses every-RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing-where.
4) The sin class is now useless
-The sin class has always been useful, but the SP bar was so good that nobody ever realized what else the sin class could do
5) PvP game balance destroys PvE game balance
-PvE doesn't need game balance. Almost everything is already really easy. The problem is that a lot of people are too dumb to adapt to situations, and still do stuff like running SF versus destroyers.
DDL
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Originally Posted by moriz
strangely enough, none of these supposed pve catastrophes affect me. nor had any other skill nerfs affected my pve performance.
is it because i'm simply better at pve than every pve'er here? or maybe these "grievances" are not as big as you all make them out to be? who knows. |
For instance, mosquitoes have never hindered the day-to-day performance of my job. However, would I like them to be far more commonplace? No.
The pet thing is an irritation, primarily because it's so...clumsy. It's a truly UGLY way to fix the problem. The problem that, note, wasn't even THERE in PvE.
But yes, if it makes you feel better: you're better at everything than everyone. That doesn't mean nobody has a right to be irritated, though. Skill is not a prerequisite for expressing irritation.
bungusmaximus
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Originally Posted by DDL
So at least try to understand WHY people find this sort of thing annoying.
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I'm not too fond of the splinter weapon nerf either, since I used to exploit the living crap out of it, but with so many builds and skills in a game I honestly don't care when they nerf my builds, I just make another one.
People should also try and understand why people find skill balances good for the game.
Oh and I'm not awesome at GW, I'm moderately good, leave awesomeness to others
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Originally Posted by Jetdoc
1. Remove minions from triggering Soul Reaping. Kind of makes sense since minions don't have souls, just like spirits (at least lore-wise).
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Originally Posted by Jetdoc
2. Revert spirits back to their original health. Now that the SR engine is not spirit dependant, I'm not sure why the nerf to spirit health is still needed.
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Necrotic
I'm only posting to add my opinion to the collective...just for the record.
The new SR nerf needs to include the removal of the timer, because that would make SR function exactly the way we suggested it the first time.
I know it's difficult for some to understand....but SR IS our energy management. Hey I know....make a new Ranger stance or enchantment that is Expertise based and is the only way for a Ranger to reduce the energy cost of skills, but it only lasts 15 seconds...or how about a warrior that has to bring a seperate skill that allows his adrenaline to build up. Or maybe he only builds adrenaline on every third hit.
As for the comments I keep seeing about not taking a MM into an area where there aren't any corpses....well....last I checked, you still can't change skills in the middle of a mission/explorable zone. Besides there are other things to do with corpses besides summon minions....as someone else has already pointed out.
The new SR nerf needs to include the removal of the timer, because that would make SR function exactly the way we suggested it the first time.
I know it's difficult for some to understand....but SR IS our energy management. Hey I know....make a new Ranger stance or enchantment that is Expertise based and is the only way for a Ranger to reduce the energy cost of skills, but it only lasts 15 seconds...or how about a warrior that has to bring a seperate skill that allows his adrenaline to build up. Or maybe he only builds adrenaline on every third hit.
As for the comments I keep seeing about not taking a MM into an area where there aren't any corpses....well....last I checked, you still can't change skills in the middle of a mission/explorable zone. Besides there are other things to do with corpses besides summon minions....as someone else has already pointed out.
Akaraxle
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Originally Posted by WoodyDotNet
Bzzt! Thanks for playing. The pet nerf will only have a small impact on Tombs. There are plenty of other exploitable corpses. That said, I've calmed down since my rantings of last night (which Inde rightly deleted), but I still think this is one of the all time biggest screw-ups they've done.
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Spike
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Originally Posted by Savio
Not every PvEr cares about the skill update.
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MagmaRed
Pets? Don't understand any of it. THe change is confusing, but the QQ is too.
No exploitable corpses? PvP abuse is the only thing I see this coming from. If so, make it a PvP only feature. That can be done easily as they have already done that with pets and DP.
The QQing about Tombs being dead has me laughing. If you needed a corpse from the pets to complete Tombs, you sucked. Pets served 3 purposes in Tombs, now they serve 2.
1) blodyblocking - the Grasps would stop to kill the pets, keeping them away from the team. This will still happen. It also serves to bunch up the Grasps for Barrage. Except for the first group where you have no minions, killing them is not hard, which provides corpses for minions.
2) damage - although insignificant with low Beast Mastery attributes and no attack skills, the pets provide support damage. In fact, I have seen pets kill Dryders that were behind walls and inaccessible to Barrage (minions were not in range). Its minor, but its helpful, and its still there.
3) corpses for minions - this is gone. If you can't kill things without minions, your team won't do well anyway.
I'm one of those people who thought Splinter was cool, but didn't use it myself. The ORIGINAL B/P teams worked without Splinter. Pets still provide 2 things to help a B/P team, and although I don't understand the change to pets, it won't ruin a farm build, just slow it down a little.
Quit crying and learn how to play people.
Horns I never used, but I don't see why it got hit so hard.
Barrage buff is nice, and Magebane is close to what I suggested - I may be trying that more often.
Soul Reaping - sounds like they are finally listening, and getting close to what we want. I think a timer is still in store for us, but it needs to be modified. I'd say SR should only trigger 1 time every second. This way, if you have 10 SR, and your Ele wipes out a group of 4 enemies in 1 second, you get 10 energy, not 40. Curious to see what they do next, as it still needs work.
No exploitable corpses? PvP abuse is the only thing I see this coming from. If so, make it a PvP only feature. That can be done easily as they have already done that with pets and DP.
The QQing about Tombs being dead has me laughing. If you needed a corpse from the pets to complete Tombs, you sucked. Pets served 3 purposes in Tombs, now they serve 2.
1) blodyblocking - the Grasps would stop to kill the pets, keeping them away from the team. This will still happen. It also serves to bunch up the Grasps for Barrage. Except for the first group where you have no minions, killing them is not hard, which provides corpses for minions.
2) damage - although insignificant with low Beast Mastery attributes and no attack skills, the pets provide support damage. In fact, I have seen pets kill Dryders that were behind walls and inaccessible to Barrage (minions were not in range). Its minor, but its helpful, and its still there.
3) corpses for minions - this is gone. If you can't kill things without minions, your team won't do well anyway.
I'm one of those people who thought Splinter was cool, but didn't use it myself. The ORIGINAL B/P teams worked without Splinter. Pets still provide 2 things to help a B/P team, and although I don't understand the change to pets, it won't ruin a farm build, just slow it down a little.
Quit crying and learn how to play people.
Horns I never used, but I don't see why it got hit so hard.
Barrage buff is nice, and Magebane is close to what I suggested - I may be trying that more often.
Soul Reaping - sounds like they are finally listening, and getting close to what we want. I think a timer is still in store for us, but it needs to be modified. I'd say SR should only trigger 1 time every second. This way, if you have 10 SR, and your Ele wipes out a group of 4 enemies in 1 second, you get 10 energy, not 40. Curious to see what they do next, as it still needs work.
Savio
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Originally Posted by Spike
Ture but you don't get a thread this long this quickly if most of then DID'NT care about it. Hence why I said what I did.
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Fates
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Originally Posted by Yanman.be
Moriz, people simply do not want to change...
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And yet, when some team comes along in pvp with a unique build that beats their balanced build on a consistent basis, do they adapt (hey guys, someone bring consume corpse to counter the pet exploitable corpse) or scream for a nerf?
gene terrodon
There are 945 skills and 290 elite skills, not including PvE skills, that you can choose from.
Yet, the change of a handful deems the game unplayable?
I think not.
The argument that a (a few) builds/your favorite build is ruined fails.
First, it's not "your" build. It is a build you found posted somewhere that you were using.
Secondly, figure something out on your own.
There was a comment in the thread that playing was for fun, well, isn't part of the fun creating a single/team build to clear an area/win on PvP?
What's the deal here?
Yet, the change of a handful deems the game unplayable?
I think not.
The argument that a (a few) builds/your favorite build is ruined fails.
First, it's not "your" build. It is a build you found posted somewhere that you were using.
Secondly, figure something out on your own.
There was a comment in the thread that playing was for fun, well, isn't part of the fun creating a single/team build to clear an area/win on PvP?
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Spike
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Originally Posted by Bankai
Strangely enough, everybody is shouting these things:
1) Izzy doesn't care about PvE -Barrage got buffed and Mhenlo got WoH after people complained about it 2) Necros have never received a buff -That's because a lot of the skills are already overpowered like hell, and they simply don't need buffs 3) Pet nerf has completely screwed up PvE -It's PvE. There's corpses every-RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing-where. 4) The sin class is now useless -The sin class has always been useful, but the SP bar was so good that nobody ever realized what else the sin class could do 5) PvP game balance destroys PvE game balance -PvE doesn't need game balance. Almost everything is already really easy. The problem is that a lot of people are too dumb to adapt to situations, and still do stuff like running SF versus destroyers. |
3) People are moaning about the nerf NOT MAKEING SENSE because of what anet has been telling us for the past 2.5 years not that it will kill pve.
4) the Sin class has allways been useless pretty much in pve so whats you point.
5) Sigh the oh so often retort of a pvper who has NO idea what pve is like. PVE DOES need balance because as shocking as it might be to you pvpers its actually played by MOST people who play GW. You know the ones that PAY for the servers and anets wages so constantly change our game for no reason. if it was not for us the game would of been dead a LONG time ago.
moriz
it really all boils down to the skill level and understanding of the two communities.
in pvp, you play against other people. to gain an overall advantage over the other guy, you improve your personal playing skills. however, there's no stopping the other guy from improving over you, so you have to improve some more. as a result, the overall skill level in pvp has been steadily increasing over time.
in contrast, pve will only cause you to improve up to a certain point. AI does not improve over time. as a matter of fact, it can be said that the skill level in pve have been DECREASING, with the introduction of ridiculously powerful pve skills and nerfing of some of the harder missions.
the net result is that the skill level difference between the two communities are getting wider and wider. currently, trying to get a pvp'er and a pve'er to discuss skill balance, is like two people arguing in different languages. to the pvp'er, the pve'er's complaints are completely trivial. to the pve'er, the pvper's generally greater understanding of the game and skill balance will go right over the pve'er head, since the average pve'er are not good enough to even understand that he's not as good.
now, let's take a look at the skill changes:
assassin changes: really, these do not affect pve'ers because let's face it: pve assassins don't use these skills.
SR spirit change: doesn't affect pve necromancers, since none of them rely on spirits dying as an energy engine. there's enough things dying in pve that it's totally irrelevant.
pets no longer leaving corpses: doesn't affect the vast majority of pve, simply because there are enough corpses laying around. for those strange people who rely on pet corpses to fuel MM builds when there are not enough exploitable corpses: why the hell are you using a MM build in that zone to begin with? even in B/P builds, the pet corpses should not make or break it completely. if it does, then it's time to find a new farming build.
ranger changes: does not affect pve, except maybe barrage. but hey, that's a buff.
so as you can see, the update leaves most of pve completely untouched. pve'ers should have little, if anything, to complain about.
in pvp, you play against other people. to gain an overall advantage over the other guy, you improve your personal playing skills. however, there's no stopping the other guy from improving over you, so you have to improve some more. as a result, the overall skill level in pvp has been steadily increasing over time.
in contrast, pve will only cause you to improve up to a certain point. AI does not improve over time. as a matter of fact, it can be said that the skill level in pve have been DECREASING, with the introduction of ridiculously powerful pve skills and nerfing of some of the harder missions.
the net result is that the skill level difference between the two communities are getting wider and wider. currently, trying to get a pvp'er and a pve'er to discuss skill balance, is like two people arguing in different languages. to the pvp'er, the pve'er's complaints are completely trivial. to the pve'er, the pvper's generally greater understanding of the game and skill balance will go right over the pve'er head, since the average pve'er are not good enough to even understand that he's not as good.
now, let's take a look at the skill changes:
assassin changes: really, these do not affect pve'ers because let's face it: pve assassins don't use these skills.
SR spirit change: doesn't affect pve necromancers, since none of them rely on spirits dying as an energy engine. there's enough things dying in pve that it's totally irrelevant.
pets no longer leaving corpses: doesn't affect the vast majority of pve, simply because there are enough corpses laying around. for those strange people who rely on pet corpses to fuel MM builds when there are not enough exploitable corpses: why the hell are you using a MM build in that zone to begin with? even in B/P builds, the pet corpses should not make or break it completely. if it does, then it's time to find a new farming build.
ranger changes: does not affect pve, except maybe barrage. but hey, that's a buff.
so as you can see, the update leaves most of pve completely untouched. pve'ers should have little, if anything, to complain about.
lyra_song
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Originally Posted by DDL
The pet thing is an irritation, primarily because it's so...clumsy. It's a truly UGLY way to fix the problem. The problem that, note, wasn't even THERE in PvE.
But yes, if it makes you feel better: you're better at everything than everyone. That doesn't mean nobody has a right to be irritated, though. Skill is not a prerequisite for expressing irritation. |
I dont have a problem that its a nerf, or a change.
I have the problem that it feels so tacked on, clumsy, ugly, inelegant, stupid. It just feels so half-assed. The designer in me is screaming in agony. It feels like a drastic desperate measure.
Maybe Anet needs to rethink pets altogether. Their role in a party, their function, their costs, their pros and cons. Their effect on Soul Reaping. Their synergy with a party (ie: shouts).
If anet is removing the pet corpse, making the pet a TRUER extension of the ranger (ranger + pet = only 1 corpse, instead of 2), then the behavior of the pet should be more weaponlike, and less like an ally/hero/party member (imo).
Moriz: You need to stop operating under the assumption that PVE players understand the game less than PVP players.
Myself, I understand the game mechanics fine and choose to play PvE instead of PvP. I prefer my competition fun, lighthearted and casual, thats why I play TF2 and not Halo3.
dont feel no pain
Necro's are fantastic and have energy management without any skills , i love them, very unique and fun to play, the nerf doesn't bother me one bit as they are still fantastic =D
As for ranger.... I feel that Energizing Wind got overnerfed, the change before was perfect... but 26 seconds of it is just insane... almost pointless, not just for farming, but in general.
And going to sins... goodbye to that boring old combo
, i love them, very unique and fun to play, the nerf doesn't bother me one bit as they are still fantastic =DAs for ranger.... I feel that Energizing Wind got overnerfed, the change before was perfect... but 26 seconds of it is just insane... almost pointless, not just for farming, but in general.
And going to sins... goodbye to that boring old combo
Akaraxle
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Originally Posted by lyra_song
Moriz: You need to stop operating under the assumption that PVE players understand the game less than PVP players.
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Spike
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Originally Posted by Savio
Forum posters != general population.
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X Salvation X
R.I.P Assassins
April 28, 2006- November 13, 2007
No more sp sins maybe? I'd love that. I was amazed none of my custom builds got nerfed. I actually benefieted now because of some of these updates. Props to Anet for listening to some commenys.
April 28, 2006- November 13, 2007
No more sp sins maybe? I'd love that. I was amazed none of my custom builds got nerfed. I actually benefieted now because of some of these updates. Props to Anet for listening to some commenys.
eriello
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Originally Posted by moriz
now, let's take a look at the skill changes:
assassin changes: really, these do not affect pve'ers because let's face it: pve assassins don't use these skills. |
changes on Horns are quite nonsense.
changes on BLS could be good, but make them hit even if target is NOT hexed. skill is currently bugged. (is Anet giving us a Black Phoenix Strike now?)
oh, and no exploitable corpses for pets is quite illogical imho.
ValaOfTheFens
I can't believe how much people seem to hate Minion Masters. Why?
My primary character is a Necromancer and I like to use a variety of builds so PvE will remain interesting(she's beaten all 3 campaign and I don't have GWEN yet). I never relied on pets to make minions in any place other than Tomb but I respect others wish to do so. MMing is one of the most challenging Necro builds around. You have to wait for something with an exploitable corpse to die in order for the build to actually do anything. None of the PvE-only skills that summon allied creatures to your aid leave exploitable corpses(I cried when I discovered that about the Assassin Support thing). Its still possible to MM most areas of all 4 games but you have to know the area you're going into. I've MMed solely using charmable animals(it was an experiment I did out of boredom in HM) and while its not very good or efficient its doable. I rarely MM myself anymore but I bring a MM hero when needed.
MMing is probably the most thankless role you'll ever play after Monking. People constantly yell "Make some minions!" and "Why u only have 3 minions? U can have 10, rite?" and they don't seem to realize that you have to kill things before that can happen. With the pet nerf Tomb runs will be more fail for people who've never done it. I usually raise a minion or two to keep the Grasps busy while everyone runs away. Now I'll just have to hope everyone is as good at running away as I am.
My primary character is a Necromancer and I like to use a variety of builds so PvE will remain interesting(she's beaten all 3 campaign and I don't have GWEN yet). I never relied on pets to make minions in any place other than Tomb but I respect others wish to do so. MMing is one of the most challenging Necro builds around. You have to wait for something with an exploitable corpse to die in order for the build to actually do anything. None of the PvE-only skills that summon allied creatures to your aid leave exploitable corpses(I cried when I discovered that about the Assassin Support thing). Its still possible to MM most areas of all 4 games but you have to know the area you're going into. I've MMed solely using charmable animals(it was an experiment I did out of boredom in HM) and while its not very good or efficient its doable. I rarely MM myself anymore but I bring a MM hero when needed.
MMing is probably the most thankless role you'll ever play after Monking. People constantly yell "Make some minions!" and "Why u only have 3 minions? U can have 10, rite?" and they don't seem to realize that you have to kill things before that can happen. With the pet nerf Tomb runs will be more fail for people who've never done it. I usually raise a minion or two to keep the Grasps busy while everyone runs away. Now I'll just have to hope everyone is as good at running away as I am.
Snow Bunny
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Originally Posted by Fates Monk
That seems to be the mantra of every pvp'er to pve'er. "You suck at the game, just adapt to the changes."
And yet, when some team comes along in pvp with a unique build that beats their balanced build on a consistent basis, do they adapt (hey guys, someone bring consume corpse to counter the pet exploitable corpse) or scream for a nerf? |
Listen, before you make anymore comments like this, understand one thing.
We don't enjoy mundane gameplay in PvP. Sinspike, bspike, sway, they're not fun to play/play against. Interesting builds, dynamic gameplay, that's fun.
We can adapt. Most do adapt. It's that it's not fun, it's crappy to play with.
The skill level, the basic gameplay of Pve NEVER changes. You always know what you're up against, you can always PREPARE for it. There's a set monster difficulty, they have set skills, hell, they even have a set aggro pattern that's fairly easy to manage with a degree of competence.
This skill update was one of the few that I believe has actually done any good for this game.
So, yes. Adapt. Because if you can't after a couple of rather slight twitches to overall pve gameplay, that's bad. Just thank god they didn't nerf BHA/SS/TNTF/SY/Insert PvE-staple skill here.
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Originally Posted by Snow Bunny
It's not that we can't adapt. I remember Nurse in the gladiator's arena threatening people with a ban if they made this comment (in regards to HA with heroes)
Listen, before you make anymore comments like this, understand one thing. We don't enjoy mundane gameplay in PvP. Sinspike, bspike, sway, they're not fun to play/play against. Interesting builds, dynamic gameplay, that's fun. We can adapt. Most do adapt. It's that it's not fun, it's crappy to play with. The skill level, the basic gameplay of Pve NEVER changes. You always know what you're up against, you can always PREPARE for it. There's a set monster difficulty, they have set skills, hell, they even have a set aggro pattern that's fairly easy to manage with a degree of competence. This skill update was one of the few that I believe has actually done any good for this game. So, yes. Adapt. Because if you can't after a couple of rather slight twitches to overall pve gameplay, that's bad. Just thank god they didn't nerf BHA/SS/TNTF/SY/Insert PvE-staple skill here. |
Crom The Pale
My 2cents on these updates.
The sin changes seam ok to me, nothing I used over much so I can't say it hurt me, sorry to those that feel its a bash to thier favorite build.
Ranger, love the barrage bost it really needed.
Pets without corpses is a little confusing, but if they are going that route for PvP reasons why not reimpliment the death of pet resets all of your skills in PvP. That is a major pain in PvE so either remove it for both or give it to both.
The sin changes seam ok to me, nothing I used over much so I can't say it hurt me, sorry to those that feel its a bash to thier favorite build.
Ranger, love the barrage bost it really needed.
Pets without corpses is a little confusing, but if they are going that route for PvP reasons why not reimpliment the death of pet resets all of your skills in PvP. That is a major pain in PvE so either remove it for both or give it to both.
MarlinBackna
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R.I.P Assassins April 28, 2006- November 13, 2007 |
Kyp Jade
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Originally Posted by dont feel no pain
As for ranger.... I feel that Energizing Wind got overnerfed, the change before was perfect... but 26 seconds of it is just insane... almost pointless, not just for farming, but in general.
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Originally Posted by Kyp Jade
Nah it wasnt nearly enough, a balanced EW should look something like
25 cost 120 recharge 30 duration Lvl 1-6 Half HP as normal Spirits Added Drawback "Party Members affected by this miss with hammer attacks 75% of the time, necromancer enchantments are unnaffected by this spirit" Seriously I am so tired of seeing this spirit pop up every match it drives me to pve. |
Izzy please delete EW, RaO and OoA are actually fine as they are, but EW serves as a 'Deadly Paradox'.
Fates
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Originally Posted by Snow Bunny
It's not that we can't adapt. I remember Nurse in the gladiator's arena threatening people with a ban if they made this comment (in regards to HA with heroes)
Listen, before you make anymore comments like this, understand one thing. We don't enjoy mundane gameplay in PvP. Sinspike, bspike, sway, they're not fun to play/play against. Interesting builds, dynamic gameplay, that's fun. |
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| We can adapt. Most do adapt. It's that it's not fun, it's crappy to play with. |
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| The skill level, the basic gameplay of Pve NEVER changes. You always know what you're up against, you can always PREPARE for it. There's a set monster difficulty, they have set skills, hell, they even have a set aggro pattern that's fairly easy to manage with a degree of competence. |
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This skill update was one of the few that I believe has actually done any good for this game. So, yes. Adapt. Because if you can't after a couple of rather slight twitches to overall pve gameplay, that's bad. Just thank god they didn't nerf BHA/SS/TNTF/SY/Insert PvE-staple skill here. |
Jetdoc
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Originally Posted by Akaraxle
It is not an assumption. Most high-level PvP players have played their share of PvE before becoming so, and even farmed a ton (before tournament rewards came) to embellish their toons. One guy I played with last night is champion 5 or 6, and rank 8 Ebon Vanguard. Can the same be said for PvE only players?
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Honestly, why does every update thread need to degrade into a PvP versus PvE ability contest?
There simply are players that are very knowledgable about PvP, there are similar players that are very knowledgable about PvE, and there are players that know a ton about both. Everyone is entitled to voice their opinion, but the opinions I value most come from the last camp.
Rocky Raccoon
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Originally Posted by moriz
to the pve'er, the pvper's generally greater understanding of the game and skill balance will go right over the pve'er head, since the average pve'er are not good enough to even understand that he's not as good.
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