Update: 13 Nov. 07

Yes but if they have quit playing GW due to all the nerfs thier sure as hell not going to be buying GW2 so my point is valid. So you fail, try again.

But its a self fullfiling arguement. Asking for nerfs WILL result in a flat game regardless of WHY you do it. This game is going the way SWG went. I can see the GW CU comeing and theres nothing that can be done. This SB may very well of been the first bit.

Do you even know why people wait til VoD to win? If not, then I suggest you take a hour break, do some research then come back to this thread.

You completely missed the point. Why do you think these non-IWAY teams could go in and shit all over IWAY? Because the only thing in Tombs was: IWAY. All you have to do it bring something in like, oh I don't know Feast of Corruption. Ball up and everyone explodes dead.

Yes, they do it because with today's "balanced" builds, neither team can effectively do anything against the other team. Both teams can counter anything the other team does. So they wait for vod and hope they can kill faster than the other team.

A unique build, that maybe even allows a split or spike gets nerfed because the "balanced" build cant counter it. Thus you end up with more and more balanced builds, with everyone waiting for vod. Sure sounds fun to me.

lol so what you're saying is IWAY needed to be nerfed not because it was overpowered but because it was 1) easy to play, 2)very popular, and 3)too easy to beat with another build had anyone actually tried using another build?

wow, in that case it sounds like it's popularity that calls for the nerfs, not being overpowered, because from what you're saying IWAY was pretty damn easy to beat, and with most people playing it, you had a good probability of encountering it and beating it (assuming you didn't play IWAY yourself). So the calls to nerf IWAy were, what, an attempt to 'help' the poor souls that kept playing IWAY (obviously an inefficient build if you could roll over it like that)? How thoughtful of the elite portion of the pvp community :-) charity..

EDIT: Good answer Fates...

Balanced...equals...boring...

Balanced? It's not balanced. Nobody said it was balanced.

actually I need to thank izzy somewhat.

I will not open Guild Wars tommorow

Instead I will work on my graphics are and Programming.

I might play Nostale, if I get a bit bored from those.

33% IAS and 10+ regeneration thanks to your dead pets on the class that has the best dps already. C + Space at that point dealt insane amounts of damage and while Warrior's have the best armour, they also have maximum regeneration. On a shout. Which cannot be removed.

Sure it only lasted about a minute, but how many teams can deal with 8 Warriors with 16 in Axe/Sword/Hammer dealing out crazyass damage each, on top of that was the attack skill use on the rest of their bar, which only served to increase the damage moreso. Matches wouldn't last longer than a minute.

A balanced build stood no chance against that kind of dps. The solution? Direct counter. FoC spike. A build that wouldn't ever be considered as viable anywhere else but IWAY but required a decent amount of coordination to get right.

Now tell me, how was IWAY not overpowered?

I can deal with the SR nerf.....but WTF is up with the pet thing...I mean....seriously. How the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO do pets not leave corpses, and how the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO was that exploited in PvE or PvP or w/e? GG on that one.

Haha I am simply loving it. SINS got spanked in the bud. hardy har har. That was a great BALANCE for SINS IZZY I'm lovin you tonight.

They should rethink necro SR though again since they removed spirits from them and pet corpses. Should go back to regular necro SR like it was before all the SR nerfing started.

Seems rangers got loving again after they nerfed splinter weapon, now they give them more power with that Barrage again. Rangers still need some heavy nerfing to interupts and recharges of them.

Was sad to see Word of Healing get nerfed down in healing power. My hero monks were lovin it. I used to use Glimmering Light, but, since they did improve WOH man my hero monks can finally last through some tough battles.

Overall a decent balancing act. I think they still need to bring Chiliblains back to what it used to be. Obsidain Flesh and Shadow Form Ele's are now even more of a pain in the arse in FA.

I haven't played in like two months or so. Guess what? I have no problem with this particular update. If and when, I return it still won't hurt me. Player Pets no longer leaving exploitable corpses is strange (pretty sure I'll manage). What about non-charmed animals that die in aoe? Not that I care just curious.


All this thread/update has done is proven that people get too attached to a single skill/build, and once its nerfed whine about it or threaten to rage gw if its not changed back to how it was. Makes me miss the old days when people thought up their own unique builds to own face with. Anyone can come up with new builds, just requires a little time and effort. Oh and this pic reminds me of typical whiners. Sry but this thread needs more humor + less flamebait.

Was a great sin balance for everything but horns.

Sin's will now take Mark of instability, and when we do you will piss ass for horns to return.

Except that balanced builds (with experienced and good players) were able to cut through IWAY and hold halls at various points during that period. They were just better players at playing balanced builds against builds that were different that theirs.

EDIT: Someone brought up Magic earlier. Even in magic there are builds that will completely wipe away other builds. These are builds that are not restricted or banned. It happens. The only time something is banned or restricted is if it can wipe out EVERY other build out there. If a build can completely wipe out another build without the other one even standing a chance unless it has a counter, then that's fair game. It's a chance you take. Ultimately GW includes chance as well because you have to pick your skills before you see your opponent's skills. If you pick a bad counter then hopefully one of your teammates has one. If none of you did, then make the best of it. Playing a game like this without having to plan for 'unknowns' and being able to counter them is worthless, even more predictable than PvE is. Part of the fun of games like Magic, and even RPG PvP is that there is some element of chance (the fact that you can't use EVERY card/skill you have, but rather you must choose wisely, and hopefuly correctly). Even in realy RPGs (traditional) a mage has to prepare what spells he wants before he knows what he'll need. Not everything can be predictable and not everything should be. By making the metagame (if you call it that) to one in which you never have to worry about countering anything, you are ending up with something just as predictable as PvE. If you want it truly to be non-random, completely balanced, with no chance of deviation, then you really should not be playing an RPG PvE. You should be playing a FPS, preferably one with only one class of player and non-changing environment or a game like chess.

One of the beatuies of Magic is its theme decks. They allow for variation within the game. Some theme decks (even ones released Wizards) are superior to another one (meaning they can stomp the other one with equally skilled payers). What does the other person do? He comes back with a few new cards to counter the most common deck types he may be coming up against (such as a few counterspells if his colors allow for that, direct damage, creature removal, etc) outside of his theme a bit. If he doesn't have a counter for something he comes across, or he comes across a truly unique deck, he makes the best of it and pushes onward.

Maybe a fair thing for Soul Reaping would be back to what it was before the nerf, but not gain energy from pets or spirits. Keep pet corpses exploitable, but take away energy from pets and spirits, and maybe buff it to 4 times in the next 15? Idk.

My take on everything

Assassins: SP sins got torn apart and then izzy spit on their bodies for good measure. Not going to comment on this, will see how it plays out.

Mesmer: It was at 20, changed to 15, was changed back to 20, people cry. Next time change it to 30 first then change it to 20 an hour later, people will praise you.

Monk: WoH is still very awesome, the nerf was just a little scale back. It still has Self targeting, 3 sec recharge and about 50-60 greater heal then the previous version.

Necromancer: Ends a lot of abusive things in PvP, though I wish this was a PvP only nerf, since in game terms it makes sense for spirits to give soul reaping, and no one cares about a little more energy for PvE necros. Hopefully we can get the 3 per 15 seconds thing scaled back, but don't count on it.

Ranger: Barrage gets a 3 point damage boost! weeeee! Sounds like a change just to get pve rangers to stop complaining about the splinter nerf, even though it nowhere near makes up for it. See the ineptitude explanation.

Energizing winds getting a big hit was probably good though maybe overdone just SLIGHTLY?

Pets not leaving exploitable corpses should really be made pvp only, I mean they already made pets in PvP get DP while PvE ones don't, why can't we have the same thing here? But in the end all this really hurts is MM's, and making someone use a different build for the 1/10th of the game without enemy corpses isn't a horrible thing.

Anyone see Magebane Shot becoming very good? Immunity to blocking should let good rangers nail most casters pretty well, considering that layers of blocking is one of the best ways to stop interruption. Savage shot and Distracting shot were already the staples of rangers, this is Part Savage + Part Distracting + unblockable + Disableing. Depending on how this goes with the meta changes it might need a small nerf.

Mhenlo: At least they admit lod we nerfed beyond the point of no return lol

If when you say "balanced", you man "direct counter to 8 warriors dealing shit-tons of dps" then, sure.

Exactly what I was trying to say, but it didn't come out right for me

What's with the no exportability pet corpse? I don't care if it was being used in PvP, They could have increased the time after death before that pet leaves another corpse or something. With all these nerfs its no wonder people are leaving GW to play games like 2moons that are funner and free to play and download. If this kind of thing keeps up I'll have to take a friends advice and give up on GW and GW2 and find another game to play.


"Quit Nerfing Necros!"

Great update! I guess I'll rush through 67-70 and raid Kara for gears and join you guys in Zul'Aman ASAP. The place looks like fun!

o wait....where am I?

in many of the cases they were 'class balanced' as opposed to 'build balanced'

Why do pets no longer leave corpses - thats just plain stupid

at least the grenths grasp sin build wasn't hurt too much by this.. makes me happy cause thats what i use in pvp.. horns makes me cry.. i'm going to need to find something else to run with AoD now.. horns just won't cut it anymore.

>.> to Nostale.

Nostale.co....google it =P


A-net...please...heres things you need to look at for the assassin

BLS is currently bugged,

Horns- revert.Now.

Shadow Prison - Keep duration lower snare to 50%. Target Foe takes 40....20 less damage from attacks. If you crit that foe takes +15 more damage.

Shadow of haste - Original Form.

Jungle strike- increase conditional damage, Damage is not increased if target is hexed.

Recall: You cannot end recall if you have taken damage within the past 10 seconds. If recall is forcefully removed (enchant removal) you take 50 damage.

Swap: You and target foe switch places.

Repeating strike: 25% armor penetration.

Deadly paradox: Affects Spells only. When it ends your spells are disabled for 10 seconds, while deadly paradox is on you attack 60!% slower.

Pets aren't meant to be used as disposables for necros.

This is why you don't let one person do skill balances. Where's Gaile with her "try it out before you flame it! " (and perhaps a few more smiley faces?)

Atleast Super Mario Galaxy can't be nerfed!

Oh I quite like the sound of this

Dam straight, im picking up my copy this friday

leads to interesting gameplay....

Swap would be a projectile though, so that it can be dodged.
So people can prevent it.

However it would be fast =P So distance = win.

All these skill changes are fine. Nothing huge here. A grain of sand compared to the boulder that was the LoD nerf.

But there are three things left to do ASAP:
1. Get rid of the timer on Soul Reaping
2. Nerf Ursan Blessing
3. Fix LoD (do whatever you need to do to it to get it back to 1 second)

Everything else is tiny and irrelevant in comparison to these three things.

My heart sank when I saw that this was the only change on the monk list. It took me a few seconds to fully believe my eyes when the words "Light of Deliverance" could not be found on that list.

Pet no longer leave a corpse B/P= pure suck....
Thanks for nothing

Why punish sins so hard?

If this is about the SP sin, why not go to the heart of it and make Tiger Stance unusable as a sin, instead of nerfing half the sin's skills.

With nerfs, why would you ever choose sin over warrior. Warriors are just plain superior. Why ruin a class.

As if sins weren't limited enough. The only half way decent build left to play is the Shattering Assault sin. And even it got hit with the 1 second impale timer.

I really wouldn't mind so much if they equally buffed other unused skills in compensation. Maybe I shouldn't use the word buff. A lot of the usesless skills just need to be reworked completely and given new functionalities.

Hey guys, first time poster here.

There's far too much shit in this thread for me to read, but meh, here's my two cents.

The nerf which has been bestowed onto Energizing Winds can only be described as colossal ridiculity, at rank 6 beast mastery attribute the spirit's duration is 13 seconds, at rank 16 the spirits duration is 33 seconds! That's one hell of a difference from the other nature rituals... try changing a few beast mastery attributes, then look at a ritual such as EoE, you'll see the difference, the nerf has completely negated that skill to be used anywhere in all honesty, no more solo trapping for rangers.

Not only did the nrg cost for EW go up in a recent update, but it's use in general has no existence.

Word of Healing has completely screwed the duo FoW run since the shadow monks simply won't die, since the skill can now be used on the caster.

As for the change which negates pets to leave exploitable corpses, that's also ridiculous, since when are animals not considered "fleshy creatures"? Because they're certainly not undead.

Pets - Animal Replicating Alien Life Form.

I don't see why Ancestor's Rage shouldn't be classed as an enchantment, seeing as it's cast on allies for the purpose of doing damage, same as smiting enchantments, a pointless change some might think, but I don't think so, given the amount of enchanter counters that have been negated due to this change.

The barrage buff certainly does not make up for the splinter weapon nerf.

I honesty don't want to irritate myself further by so much as thinking about the asssasin skill nerfs, let alone post about them.

/Rant over.

SD.

this update was wonderful

with all these changes, is there a place to reference what the skill used to be BEFORE the change?

like ineptitude... the recharge increased to 20 seconds. but from what? I don't remember.

Fifteen. And a half point two three six five eight to the power of sixteen.

Whoah! Way overkill for the sin... I mean usually, when certain skills are balanced, that implies nerfs and buffs... Horns was way overkilled. I actually like some of the previous changes for sin skills suggested in a previous post. Very creative. But seriously, how bout a fix for the sins?

^^

So much QQ in this thread.

Horns- still gives sins a knockdown, not meant to be a damage dealer.

All these skill changes doesn't really affect PvE.

ADAPT


kbai

So. Since they decided to keep LoD as beaten into uselessness, when is the update that removes its elite status that it's not worthy of?

It is not humanly possible to agree with this too strongly. Perhaps if I repeat it once more it may be heard: GET RID OF THE TIMER ON SOUL REAPING!

Meh. As much as I hate to see it go, LoD did very, very bad things to monk builds. Killing LoD was the only way to kill stagnant "hybrid" bars with 2 heals and 6 prot. Perhaps now we'll see the return of real healing builds, or at least 4/4 hybrids.

That said, if LoD went back to being 1 sec, but nerfed in some other way that kept it from replacing the entire remainder of the healing line, save DKiss, that would be fine with me.

Other things I think need immediate work:

1) Get rid of this no-corpse-from-pets thing. It's stupid, badly damaging to PvE, and universally hated. Just get rid of it.

2) Splinter Weapon needs something done for it. It's just woefully weak compared to other AoE once the mob gets up to about 5 or 6 targets. Fix the problems inherent in VoD and the VoD AI, and revert the change to splinter.

For once in a very, very, very, veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeery long time I agree with zinger.

Because then they'll just move on to the next IAS, and when that gets nerfed on to the next one.