Update: 13 Nov. 07 - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Llint

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2006

14 Nov 2007 at 02:40 - 161

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleeper Service

errmm jagged bones? minion bomber?, using minions in areas with few De and El fire dmg?, if its the case prioritizing targeting?

oh yeah . pvpers think all pvers are idiots who c space the whole game.

Because you don't need to do anything other then Cspace PvE. I could probably complete HM with half a skill bar, but I don't feel like it. Why? Because ive already completed every campaign, and have exhausted it. HM wasn't a boon, it was crap. It didn't change any feel of PvE. They just made the monsters hit harder. Oh wow, now I gotta bring one extra skill for defense... Big change.

Hott Bill

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2007

Shards of a Broken Crown

R/

14 Nov 2007 at 02:41 - 162

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Raenef

Fix Black Lotus Strike! Even with the nerf, they make it FAIL.

Description:
"Lead Attack. If it hits, Black Lotus Strike strikes for +[damage]. IF target foe is suffering from a hex, you gain [energy]."

It is usable without a hex now, but still, to this day.

Picture:
http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/8083/failjt9.png

FAIL.

Yea that happened to me also.

Inde

Site Contributor

Join Date: Dec 2004

14 Nov 2007 at 02:42 - 163

Everyone, i repeat... for the 10,000th time. Any insult to an individual or the community as a whole will be deleted. This includes Izzy or any of the devs.

Kaida the Heartless

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2006

N/

14 Nov 2007 at 02:44 - 164

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHunterX

I think this is what you were going for, making Soul Reaping useless, right?

I'm actually one of the people that are getting tired of having my favorite class's primary attribute wrecked, but it has to happen.

Btw, it was at 15 seconds. i buffed it.

I think people are still overreacting from that insane Jagged Bones build that used to wreck GvG's. Honestly, if you can't get a warrior to build adrenaline on the bone minions that are used in gvgs now (WITHOUT Jagged I might add), then that's your own fault. They die in two hits.

Soul Reaping used to blow in PvP, but once people started learning how to "control death", it became the most broken mechanic in the game. Funny, eh?

Also, I'm totally for the HotO nerf. That skill was lame. Free knockdown during instagib! Yea. BS. Good riddance.

I tell ya what Anet, if you take assassins out of the game, you can have Soul Reaping. :P

Sleeper Service

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Dec 2005

CULT

14 Nov 2007 at 02:45 - 165

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malice Black

If you need a minion army just to do HM, you're not very good anyway, and prob should go back to NM.

Me B/P?? lol I don't farm. I've never needed to farm. I've never been in a B/P group. I've never done Tombs. You get my drift??

I play for fun...this is why I laugh at skill updates. They don't effect me, as I don't really care.

you've never played b/p, you dont farm. you dont even care, so...how can you even comment without you know...brown stinky stuff coming out of your mouth?

oh wait...

raddaman

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2007

A/

14 Nov 2007 at 02:47 - 166

Possible flame-bait, but it surprises me that people believe they deserve infinite energy. It's also strange for me to see that people want to "force" one bar for everywhere.

For the expose defenses nerf, that's good. A skill that allows a person to forget about anything that could mess up his skills and still score a kill is bad. That's why it should be dead. I doubt it could be used in any PvE because of its recharge. Not to mention 6 seconds is enough for a sin to instapwn someone.

Of the few assassin skills that need some skill, HotO was one of them. Very conditional for the knockdown to not happen, but it's harder than say twisting fangs. Saddened by the fact that this got nerfed more than Impale. Should be better than a skill with a deep wound that STILL inflicts damage and spell range

Could have taken out the deep wound or damage on impale. Not that easy to finish off a target, but the damage is still there. In fact, if deep wound wasn't there and BLS was off hand, they would need to use twisting fangs and thus be either unable to finish the combo or micro their energy. For anyone that believes deep wound isn't necessary on an assassin bar, you're wrong. Deep wound is one of the big reasons behind the use of melee characters+ many other things.

Fates

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

Kanuckistan

Mirror of Reason [SNOW]

R/

14 Nov 2007 at 02:49 - 167

Quote:

Originally Posted by Llint

Buddy, no one is asking Izzy to nerf builds or skills because we lose to them. Okay okay how about you and your friends run a build in PvP using builds from PvX and me and my friends will run a build that is completely gay and imbalanced, and see what you think afterwards. Maybe then you will like, honestly realize the problems.

So basically what you're asking for is perfect balance. I'll solve this for Izzy and then he can stop screwing with PvE. Make every pvp team exactly the same. Make it 2 War, 2 Ele, 2 Monk, 1 Rang and 1 Rit. Then lock each class' skill bar to the same exact skills. There, the "perfect balance" that is apparently the ultimate in pvp.

Scary Raebbit

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2005

14 Nov 2007 at 02:49 - 168

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleeper Service

play HM. come back when you're done.

fyi no pets are not integral to any of my necro build. it just so happens i LIKE taking my pets out with me EXCUSE ME FOR ENJOYING THE GAME.

up to now they left a corpse, now they don't. why?

like someone said above me, pve will adapt. we always adapt. except in very specific situations people will be running all kinds of builds, numerous and diverse.

pvp on the other hand establishes a meta, becomes STALE and then izzy has to come and hold your hand while the class hollers and whines pointing at the "bad bad man" crying "make him go away he scary".

Sorry, HM and PvE has just become a waste of time for me. I got my Chaos Gloves, my Blindfold, my Tormented Bow, and my Obsi, all I've been doing is scrub PvP cause I don't really want to be fed up with guild drama, and helping my guild. If letting a pet die constantly over and over again is your kind of fun so you can raise little fiends from it, have your fun, I don't really want to be a part of it. Mashing raise X summon and BotM sounds real fun anyway.
Here's a SF/Tombs run. Barrage Barrage Barrage, res pet, Barrage Barrage. Or put splinter if you're R/Rt. Repeat ad nauseum till you get to the bosses. Stop to res/rest in between mobs watching for patrol, which is damn hard. Oh noes, the MM has fewer minions, guess I'll never play B/P again. Not like I ever did more than three times when I even actually wanted to.
And PvE can adapt because it isn't the hardest thing in the world. You could take a random skill set and get through most NM without thinking. Last time I checked, HM was there for a challenge, titles, and money. I don't really care about those anymore. HM is not required.
So why don't you go ahead and adapt without pet corpse machine?

ensoriki

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

Canada bro.

A/D

14 Nov 2007 at 02:49 - 169

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk

ArenaNet should do a complete rollback so each class has their skills on the original way they were. Then take a second try at balance, but with someone OTHER than Izzy. Someone who actually plays PvE.

This would not work, as Nightfall still exists.

Nightfalls brought IMBA into GW like Holy crap.

Revert all those Nightfall nerfs back to....no mommy...make the pain go away!

....heres a better idea.

Delete the entire Nightfall campaign AND CLASSES

Revert the sin back to its original form (Remember when sin first came out and trying it in pvp? Good times)

Revert all the rit skills except the spirit ones.

Re add Nightfall With all the skills weak and Just buff them up slowly.

Make paradox

Effect spells only, when Deadly paradox ends all your spells are disabled for 10 seconds.While Deadly paradox is active you attack 60% slower.

Sin caster dies somewhat

The remains of the sin caster is then

Dancing Daggers, Palm Strike Vampiric assault + impale.

Hott Bill

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2007

Shards of a Broken Crown

R/

14 Nov 2007 at 02:50 - 170

Form PvE elitist response to skill updates: (check whatever you feel like checking, use a dartboard if you have trouble deciding)
[ ] GG Anerf you nerfed the only build I ever use.
[ ] This nerf ruins all of PvE.
[ ] It's all the PvPers' fault, they need to learn to adapt.
[X] Buff [PARAGONS] more.
[X] Nerf [ASSASSINS] less.
[X] Nerf [SoJ Assassin Spikers]more.
[ ] PvE is dead now.
[ ] I quit.

CyberNigma

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2006

San Antonio, TX

W/R

14 Nov 2007 at 02:52 - 171

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malice Black

You're still funny

I don't PvP

None of these updates effect me in the slightest. My Para still rocks

lol, touche.. :-)

I like my paragon as well. I actually played him like a roman with a sword and shield, leading from the from. I think I'm going to make him a spear-chucking beastmaster soon. Paragons are fun.

Sqube

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Dec 2006

Behind you...

A/

14 Nov 2007 at 02:53 - 172

My primary's a sin, with more than 60% of my total hours. My take:

Assassin
BLS: Inevitable. Return of the AoD Hotstepper. The SP sin was killing the meta. GG SP sin, it's been fun. Of course, the side effect is everyone who wants to go O-D-O-D is locked into GPS or BSS. Guess what, ANet: there's still not enough benefit to use L-O-D over O-D-O-D; until this is addressed, all those lead attacks are just cute little buttons to mouse over.
Expose Defenses: I've got one thing to say: Rigor Mortis.
HotO: Really? Seriously? I could see lowering the range, but you just neutered it. I don't mean this in a sarcastic way, but I think HotO just became one of the crappiest knockdowns in the game.
Impale: Makes sense. I don't have to like it, per se (I liked that quick DW), but it makes sense and I can accept it.
Trampling Ox: See HotO.

Mesmer
Ineptitude: I don't get it, but I don't have a Mesmer.

Monk
WoH: We all expected this. With Divine Favor, this thing's healing potential was through the roof.

Necromancer
Soul Reaping: Everybody knew this was only a matter of time. But yeah, it doesn't make much in the way of "sense" or "logic" to have the timer anymore. You're not worried about the issue in PvE and there aren't enough people dying in PvP for necros to turn into perma-batteries. $0.02.

Ranger
Barrage: Take a ton, give an ounce. Oh well.
Energizing Winds: Meh; I don't see it that often, so I'm ambivalent.
Magebane Shot: This makes it more worthy.
Pet corpses: Allow me to jump on one of the memes around these parts: lolwut?

Miscellaneous
Now you can't ever say ANet never gave you anything.

wakefield

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Dec 2006

14 Nov 2007 at 02:54 - 173

I just ran outside to check and see if the sky is falling. Its not, but this thread sure made me think it was.

Malice Black

Site Legend

Join Date: Oct 2005

14 Nov 2007 at 02:55 - 174

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleeper Service

you've never played b/p, you dont farm. you dont even care, so...how can you even comment without you know...brown stinky stuff coming out of your mouth?

oh wait...

They nerfed the only build you play

shame

PvX has the answer!

Anything else?

ensoriki

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

Canada bro.

A/D

14 Nov 2007 at 02:55 - 175

Quote:

Originally Posted by raddaman

Of the few assassin skills that need some skill, HotO was one of them. Very conditional for the knockdown to not happen, but it's harder than say twisting fangs. Saddened by the fact that this got nerfed more than Impale. Should be better than a skill with a deep wound that STILL inflicts damage and spell range
.

Stop talking, please.

HoTO has been a good Assassin skill for so long its not funny.
HotO was not imbalanced before Nightfall, it was not imbalanced AFTER nightfall.
Horns required an off hand, most duals do.
However consider horns effect, it was not high damage , but you got a knock down. Before Nightfall this and Iron palm were really the Only assassin skills to
activate Falling spider, the other 1 being Mark of instability, but its 20 second recharge made it undesirable...at the time.

hoTO was just a skill, not under powered, not Imbalanced. it was just a skill.
Saying it needs skill to play? There are BUILDS that should require skills to play.

And then there are just skills.
Some skills should, some it does not matter.
hoTO is just like entangling asp, How can you say its over powered?
Entangling is only good due to paradox.
HoTO has gone from a decent skill (that people did not take ALL the time, because it was a skill that was viable sometimes and sometimes not)
to shit.

Think of the warrior skills that do Horns job (knockdown + damage)
if horns was turned into a warrior skill right now...they probably wouldn't even take it (hammer warrior)

because its shit right now.
Especially on a class that would use it a lot more if Balance was to arise.

Horns....you stayed good through good times bad times....and now they killed you.

Llint

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2006

14 Nov 2007 at 02:57 - 176

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fates Monk

So basically what you're asking for is perfect balance. I'll solve this for Izzy and then he can stop screwing with PvE. Make every pvp team exactly the same. Make it 2 War, 2 Ele, 2 Monk, 1 Rang and 1 Rit. Then lock each class' skill bar to the same exact skills. There, the "perfect balance" that is apparently the ultimate in pvp.

Okay now heres a problem with that idea. Its narrow. In that I mean, both builds will be the same, both will have the same strengths, and the same weaknesses.

CyberNigma

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2006

San Antonio, TX

W/R

14 Nov 2007 at 02:58 - 177

Quote:

Originally Posted by Llint

Okay now heres a problem with that idea. Its narrow. In that I mean, both builds will be the same, both will have the same strengths, and the same weaknesses.

that's ok, because it will then be decided by player skill alone... :-)

Llint

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2006

14 Nov 2007 at 02:59 - 178

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberNigma

that's ok, because it will then be decided by player skill alone... :-)

What does skill matter when your fighting your oppoents strengths?

Sekkira

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2005

Canberra, AU

14 Nov 2007 at 02:59 - 179

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sqube

Expose Defenses: I've got one thing to say: Rigor Mortis.

Fixed, I say.

Fates

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

Kanuckistan

Mirror of Reason [SNOW]

R/

14 Nov 2007 at 03:00 - 180

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberNigma

that's ok, because it will then be decided by player skill alone... :-)

Which is apparently what pvp'ers want. Screw ingenuity and/or unique tactics, just in game skill.

Sleeper Service

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Dec 2005

CULT

14 Nov 2007 at 03:00 - 181

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malice Black

They nerfed the only build you play

shame

PvX has the answer!

Anything else?

rofl.

yes just one thing.

i dont play b/p.

never have i used pvx ONCE.

oh dear malice care to try again?

Zeek Aran

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

Earth, sadly

BORK

A/

14 Nov 2007 at 03:01 - 182

Quote:

Originally Posted by HyperLimited

Ok, worst updates ever. xD

Pets no longer leave corpses? WTF did that come from? O_o

That surprised all of us. O.o;;

Can someone explain the SR 'nerf'? I don't PvP... or play a necro... but I would still like to know.

Magebane Shot: increased disable time to 10 seconds; decreased recharge time to 5 seconds.

Wasn't it already at 5 recharge?

Nuuu my Inep. ;-;

Sqube

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Dec 2006

Behind you...

A/

14 Nov 2007 at 03:02 - 183

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sekkira

Fixed, I say.

You almost made me spit Cluck-U all over my keyboard. Well done!

Sekkira

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2005

Canberra, AU

14 Nov 2007 at 03:03 - 184

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fates Monk

Which is apparently what pvp'ers want. Screw ingenuity and/or unique tactics, just in game skill.

That's exactly what PvPers don't want. Which is where the call for nerfs come from. Don't any of you pay attention?

Lady Raenef

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Feb 2007

Oregon, USA.

Zero Mercy [zm]

W/

14 Nov 2007 at 03:04 - 185

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensoriki

Think of the warrior skills that do Horns job (knockdown + damage)
if horns was turned into a warrior skill right now...they probably wouldn't even take it (hammer warrior)

Yeah, I'll stick to Hammer Bash. kthx

Jamison0071

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2006

Melbourne, Australia

Morporkian Mercenaries

N/Me

14 Nov 2007 at 03:04 - 186

My necro is stabbed again, oh well she can definitely survive. Though I would like the time cap on Soul Reaping to now be removed (except obviously for spirits).

ValaOfTheFens

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2006

Warrior Nation[WN]

14 Nov 2007 at 03:05 - 187

Wow. ANet just killed B/P. Why? I gotta go to Izzy's talk page and try to discern why this was done.

CyberNigma

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2006

San Antonio, TX

W/R

14 Nov 2007 at 03:05 - 188

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sekkira

That's exactly what PvPers don't want. Which is where the call for nerfs come from. Don't any of you pay attention?

Maybe they just need to get better at the game then, like the top guilds of yesteryear.

Sekkira

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2005

Canberra, AU

14 Nov 2007 at 03:07 - 189

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberNigma

Maybe they just need to get better at the game then, like the top guilds of yesteryear.

You do realise the people from those top guilds are still around and they're the ones calling for the nerfs, right?

Kaida the Heartless

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2006

N/

14 Nov 2007 at 03:07 - 190

I like the raging over HotO.

Origional:
Black Lotus --> Twisting Fangs --> Black Spider --> Blades of Steel

Instagib:
Black Lotus --> Hoto --> Black Spider --> Blades of Steel --> Impale

Origional: Has Bleeding advantage. Takes 1 less skill slot
Instagib: Has Knockdown advantage. Has 100+ more damage.

Die HotO. Die.

Fates

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

Kanuckistan

Mirror of Reason [SNOW]

R/

14 Nov 2007 at 03:07 - 191

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sekkira

That's exactly what PvPers don't want. Which is where the call for nerfs come from. Don't any of you pay attention?

So...someone/team comes along with a unique build that catches your "balanced" team off guard and wins a few times and you dont want it nerfed? Apparently I'm not paying attention.

ensoriki

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

Canada bro.

A/D

14 Nov 2007 at 03:08 - 192

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Raenef

Yeah, I'll stick to Hammer Bash. kthx

I rest my case (for 5 minutes)

Captain Herbalife

Academy Page

Join Date: Jan 2006

Central United States

The Lords of Doom [LOD]

W/Mo

14 Nov 2007 at 03:09 - 193

I would love an explanation of the need to nerf pet corpses. Did Anet just want to shut down Tombs? Another point is if my pet no longer leaves an exploitable corpse then my skills shouldnt get disabled when he dies.

Love the soul reaping nerf.......nothing like double nerfing the same skills in a matter of a couple months. If they had done this nerf to begin with the pvp world would have stopped bitching and the other nerf wouldnt have been needed in all actuality.

And for all you guys who cheer these nerfs. Beware the nerf bat as it will hit your particular build sooner or later. I have watched every class in the game take a hit over the past 2 years. I have kept quiet about it for the most part. With this one I have to say that if Anet keeps taking the fun out of the game for the casual pve player, you will be left with only pvp players who play the game. If its not fun ppl WILL stop playing it. And I doubt very much if your loyal fan base pvp players will be able to support the costs of keeping the game up and running.

And to the person that said tombs was fine for a balanced group.....get a freakin clue. I enjoyed Tomb runs. It wasnt about the high dollar reward, Its about something you enjoy and have fun doing.

When you nerf an aspect of the game, you narrow it ability to be played in a person's own style. I am soo sick of hearing how something needs nerfed for pvp. If you want balanced in pvp the have no weapons no skills and everyone fights bare-handed.....then everyone is on even ground.

B/P_Ranger

Academy Page

Join Date: Jun 2006

R/Mo

14 Nov 2007 at 03:09 - 194

My user name says it all for me

no pet corpses is bull..

whatever.

ensoriki

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

Canada bro.

A/D

14 Nov 2007 at 03:11 - 195

Blah the horns nerf is even worse than I read it.

AGAIN

I thought 1....11 (Prayed) that it was at 12 dagger mastery

its at freaking 15.. and +9 at 12 dagger mastery.

Do you know what +9 is izzy? 12 dagger mastery?

thats +18 damage in total.

Pitiful.

I could argue how that damage wouldn't be so bad.

But theres no reason to defend you now izzy.

You nerfed Horns and made NOTHING else better.

Thats why you get no cookie...no pie.
And im giving the cookies to Moriz....so that we can slowly develop some sort of.... mutual...thingy ma bob.

Full Metal X

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2006

Zomg Lasers Pew

14 Nov 2007 at 03:12 - 196

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fates Monk

So...someone/team comes along with a unique build that catches your "balanced" team off guard and wins a few times and you dont want it nerfed? Apparently I'm not paying attention.

As long as it isn't stupidly overpowered, and benefits from good decision making and skill. Then the pvp community doesn't care.

Rayne Nightfyre

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Dec 2005

Acolytes of Lyssa [AL]

Me/A

14 Nov 2007 at 03:12 - 197

Nooooooooo

Ineptitude

Fates

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2005

Kanuckistan

Mirror of Reason [SNOW]

R/

14 Nov 2007 at 03:14 - 198

Quote:

Originally Posted by Full Metal X

As long as it isn't stupidly overpowered, and benefits from good decision making and skill. Then the pvp community doesn't care.

Pet corpses, which have been in the game since the beginning, are now stupidly overpowered?

Chris Blackstar

Banned

Join Date: Apr 2005

United States

14 Nov 2007 at 03:14 - 199

WTF, exsposed defenses nerfted, the PvE element always gets screwed because of PvP. All then other skills I removed from my build, except exposed defenses, now I get F'ed. Thank god Call of duty 4 has come out, time to give this game a rest, and wait for the buffs to come back, if ever?

Llint

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2006

14 Nov 2007 at 03:14 - 200

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fates Monk

So...someone/team comes along with a unique build that catches your "balanced" team off guard and wins a few times and you dont want it nerfed? Apparently I'm not paying attention.

If a team comes along with something unique, and completely rolls a balanced team, that is when the meta changes and it becomes apparent that the build is imbalanced with the rest of the game.

Edit : I read your post wrong, but if someone runs a unique build and wins through skills of the player, and not because Mystic Fire of Imba does 500 damage then thats all cool.