[Dev Update] Exploits and Bans – 10 January 2008 - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Ebony Shadowheart

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2006

USA

SSW

E/

11 Jan 2008 at 13:21 - 441

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rexion

As I said before, every game will have those that exploit and hack. It is unstoppable.

With all do respect, you might not agree with me, but I say it is ANet's fault 100%, not the people that just happened to find this.

Yes, every game has it's bugs, it's exploits, it's shortcuts that people will take advantage of. This is normal, natural, and expected although some may feel it's not always right.

Games also have these built in areas for the designers (for various purposes such as testing) that are NOT accessible to the players UNLESS they hack the server. It's because they had to use a third party program to hack the server that I feel anet made the correct choice here. I'm sorry but hacking is wrong and they got what they d*mn well deserved.

For the bystanders that weren't aware a third party program was being used and/or mapped out right away when they realized something wasn't right, I'm sorry you got banned. Perhaps that can be fixed.

For those that knew something wasn't right and went along anyway, SHAME ON YOU! Be less greedy! You got your just due as well!

Honestly, I agree with actions ANet took. From the sounds of things, this is all simply about the money that they could make quickly, and I'm sorry but that's just bullsh*t. Go farm like honest players if you need gold.

Good Job Anet!

Abnaxus

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2005

Europe

Keepers of Chaos

11 Jan 2008 at 13:24 - 442

I think that those who found and used the exploit deserve to be banned, because they're ruining our game experience.

Guys, we can't trust anymore in anybody.
PUGs are gone with heroes in normal game, now they're dead since you risk to find a cheater in every corner.
Partying with someone you don't know can expose you to the risk of losing everything.
You can only trust in your H/H.

I've never been to DoA, my main is ranger and at the beginning there was no place for them, my guild in PvP only and I play solo or with a friend.
And DoA doesn't give a title

But recently I hit r10 Norn and r8 LB, so I was thinking to go to DoA and join a ursan team just to give it a try, possibly taking my friend with me (he has max Norn and LB too).

Having no experience in DoA, I would have tried to join an "experienced" team.

What could have been my reaction to someone offering me a shortcut?
Would have I been so wary to immediately realize it was a cheat, and such a severe one to risk the loss of my account?

Actually, I don't know.
I haven't been in such situation, so I cant say what could have been my reaction.
I may have thought it was something like Consulate Docks, which has been in game since NF release, and I have used all the time I took a new character to NF inviting for free people asking for ferry, just because I hated those who charged 1k for that.

I repeat, I really can't say if I might have been so prompt to realize every implication of such a situation.
Simply because I am a total noob in that area, and might have trusted someone I may have considered "experienced".

This is the worst guilt of those cheaters.

They destroy our possibility to trust in other players.

That's why they deserve the ban.

shiznid12

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Dec 2007

11 Jan 2008 at 13:28 - 443

Quote:

Originally Posted by Take Me to The End

i have one question for gaile
why leave an active outpost for testing on a live server??
if ppl want their accounts unbanned they could just email ncsoft about how anet left active outpost for employee personal gain...since only employees could access the outpost on a live server before ppl found exploit/bug.

the point in my post, is Anet should never leave something like this on a live server. And should know better then to be running test on a live server too.

Apparently the outpost needs to be there for DoA to work. Getting rid of the server in any way, shape, or form is not possible.

Gun Pierson

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

Belgium

PIMP

Mo/

11 Jan 2008 at 13:32 - 444

Causality, the question is why?

Cause: Anet made a test outpost.
Effect: People tested it short term and sneaked in long term.

Why did people sneak in? To gain benefit.
Why wasn't the outpost removed by Anet when it fulfilled its purpose?

Cause: Anet doesn't have control over certain mechanics
Effect: The eula was created to put fear in people's minds

I know what you're thinking: 'Why didn't I just take the blue pill?'

Avai

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2006

11 Jan 2008 at 13:34 - 445

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pariah Hellfire

I have just purchased a few things from the GW store and if these ingame exploits are apparently easily hacked,what's to stop people from obtaining my Mastercard information through "client side hacking in the GW store?"

The in-game store is not client side at all, so your personal information is safe.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crom The Pale

Many games are full of "hidden areas" that only a few find a means of entry to. It would be easy to fool even some vertern players into thinking this was a legit location that has remainned either hidden or kept secret by those few that found it.

This is true. I had been playing GW for over a year by the time I realized Beetletun was a real town and not something my guildies made up. "Ettins outside Beetletun always drop Sup Vigor!" "Leave me alone, guys! You just made up that town!" So sometimes people do miss outposts. I'm certain support can identify who was innocent and who was a hacker.

When it all comes down to it, the EULA clearly says not to exploit things. You can't say "Well I've been playing GW for 32 mos and I forgot the EULA" because they update the EULA regularly and you need to re-agree each time they do this. You'll get no sympathy from me if you're a hacker.

ProgTes

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2007

Under that rock.

We Demand A Shrubbery [Ni]

W/E

11 Jan 2008 at 13:38 - 446

Hmm, but late to the party but still - I'm happy justice was served.

117 people is a lot. And I don't know if they were all intentionally exploiting the exploit, but tough luck. But please - stop sending me ingame messages about how it is my fault that one of your friends got banned.

capblye

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Sep 2007

KoH

W/N

11 Jan 2008 at 13:42 - 447

Quote:

When it all comes down to it, the EULA clearly says not to exploit things. You can't say "Well I've been playing GW for 32 mos and I forgot the EULA" because they update the EULA regularly and you need to re-agree each time they do this.

I have no idea what your talking about. I have been playing GW for over a year and NEVER had to re-agree to anything resembling a"new" EULA.
And as i said before, please stop implying that you read through the EULA as if it were a good book. There are enough lawyers in the world already.

Quote:

Games also have these built in areas for the designers (for various purposes such as testing) that are NOT accessible to the players UNLESS they hack the server. It's because they had to use a third party program to hack the server that I feel anet made the correct choice here. I'm sorry but hacking is wrong and they got what they d*mn well deserved

They DID NOT hack the server. Read the original post again. They hacked the client, and DID NOT use a 3rd party program. THE CLIENT, as in the installation of their GW. On their computer. NOT on the server.
If you arent 100% sure of what you say, dont spew it out as if it were a fact.

Ebony Shadowheart

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2006

USA

SSW

E/

11 Jan 2008 at 13:49 - 448

Quote:

Originally Posted by capblye

I have no idea what your talking about. I have been playing GW for over a year and NEVER had to re-agree to anything resembling a"new" EULA.
And as i said before, please stop implying that you read through the EULA as if it were a good book. There are enough lawyers in the world already.

I've been playing for roughly 20 months now and I've had to re-agree to the EULA at least 3 times that I can recall. So yes, occassionaly you have to do this, although most people don't actually read it.

Quote:

They DID NOT hack the server. Read the original post again. They hacked the client, and DID NOT use a 3rd party program. THE CLIENT, as in the installation of their GW. On their computer. NOT on the server.
If you arent 100% sure of what you say, dont spew it out as if it were a fact.

OK so they hacked the CLIENT, theres not a huge difference its still HACKING which isn't allowed.
So I used the wrong word, you got the point.

Quote:

This hidden outpost existed strictly for testing purposes and was never accessible through normal play. Only by hacking the client , or partying with someone who had done so, could a player access that outpost.

Please note the bolded words "never accessible through NORMAL play." They clearly state its only possible by hacking, which is againt the eula. End of story.

BlackSephir

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2006

A/N

11 Jan 2008 at 13:52 - 449

Quote:

Originally Posted by capblye

I have no idea what your talking about. I have been playing GW for over a year and NEVER had to re-agree to anything resembling a"new" EULA.

Too bad if you don't remember. I remember it very well.

Quote:

And as i said before, please stop implying that you read through the EULA as if it were a good book. There are enough lawyers in the world already.

Who the hell cares if you find it boring or not? You agreed to EULA, end of story. Also, you don't have to have an IQ of 1337 to guess what's in EULA without reading.

Quote:

They DID NOT hack the server. Read the original post again. They hacked the client, and DID NOT use a 3rd party program. THE CLIENT, as in the installation of their GW. On their computer. NOT on the server.

Yes, HACKing the client makes them so much better. Buy them icecreams.

Venus Anu

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jan 2006

11 Jan 2008 at 13:53 - 450

Quote:

Originally Posted by DragonRogue

Dear Ms Grey and all GW community members,

I am one of the Scarlet Letter Branded "117". I couldn’t tell you what a dat file is to save my life, let alone know how to write a program to hack one. Believe me or not. Many of us really didn’t think this was an exploit of this magnitude. I personally didn’t really think about it much. Like many of the other elite mishs in the game, Sorrows Furnace has 4 prequel quests but the last Final Assault is repeatable forever after. Duncan at one time was by-passable for days. And the ferry system used for me to this outpost worked EXACTLY like Urgoz and the Deep. I had never done DOA before I started doing this run. We did have to beat the 4 quests leading up to Mallyx and had to beat Mallyx the old fashioned way FIRST. Did we think the town a bit odd? Yup. Sure did. But once you enter and there is a start mission button and countdown timer to mission start, we didn’t really think much about it. Since all of the elite missions had aspects of this in one way or another one could easily look over the oddities when there were so many similarities.

With that said, we have witnessed many glitches exploited in the game by thousands of players. Duncan ferry anyone? I personally know people who made upwards of 500k in a day of doing this, not to mention those that actually did the runs over and over again to gain rare weapons, onyx, diamonds and armour of Deldrimore by scores. Did we see permanent bans for anyone ever? How about the Heart of the Shiverpeaks Dwarf-Bombing runs in under 5 minutes for days on end spammed in Party searches? How did that effect our economy with onyx, diamonds, rare skins and greens which dropped prices in a matter of hours? Who got permanently banned for that? Many of the 117 honestly didn’t think they were doing much different than that. Are we guilty of exploiting a glitch? Yup. Im the first one to admit that. How many thousands of you are guilty of it at one time or another? Did some of us seriously over-farm Mallyx? Yup. But should the ones who farmed it only for one Armbrace to buy a much wanted weapon or mini Mallyx deserve the same punishment as those who grossly over farmed it? Should it be different than those buying GW gold on eBay? I know for a fact that buying 1million gold from sites like those only warrants a 72 hour ban and you don’t even have to give it up afterward. What about dishonorable marks for the 20th time? Using racist and homophobic comments in Local Chat? Knowingly naming your toon some bad name? Has anyone ever heard of a permanent ban for any of this? We aren’t saying that we aren’t guilty of exploiting a glitch. But we are NOT guilty of Hacking. Someone might be. But all of us? Come show me that proof Ms Grey. (I live in Seattle and we can meet for coffee) Where is the sliding scale justice anywhere here for a punishment to fit the crime? Where is the equal justices ranked with the rest?

So for my part in all of this. I farmed Mallyx because I wanted enough gems for one armbrace so in turn I could buy a mini Mallyx. I, you see, am a mini pet collector. The temptation to get one easier was my weakness. Agreed. I got my 14 needed gemsets doing that run but honestly after that I just wanted a full set of his greens for my personal collection. I had no interest in profit on a grand scale. Until now I have made the hard grind for every item I’ve ever gained. I don’t like to trade, buy or sell. Takes up too much time from my playing. Look at the 23 mules on my account full of golds and greens and you will see how little I like trade chat. So please don’t accuse me of affecting the economy on a grand scale. With all the other glitches that have happened, my 14 gemsets traded for a mini pet were a pittance in comparison. I am guilty of exploiting a glitch, AGREED. But the same punishment as the ones who got 30 armbraces? I think its harsh, but then I don’t make the rules here. And, to me, it seems your company makes them up as they go. Id rather have been stripped of every item I had and all of my gold to have kept the 4k hours of title busting I have done. But too late now I guess. Not that I wouldn’t do anything to gain my account back, but really sit down with your crew and decide if the ban for ALL 117 was fair and equal. I did probably 20 runs which is more than a few, but others I know did much less and have been treated the same. I say really unfair. This is going to affect much more than the economy, you have taken the heart out of this game with your discrepancies in fair treatment.

Many of you are spouting off like you KNOW what you are talking about but in reality, only 117 of us REALLY know. Opinions are great, but before you open your mouth accusing us all of being hackers, you should know some of us. Half the time I cant even figure out how to run my Vent. As for the comments about finding "better friends" I think that an uncalled-for comment no matter my crime. I honestly believe that most of the "117" are very amazing people and I have been PROUD to call many of them friend. Most of them have always given time, effort, items and even gold to aid a fellow mate or total stranger. Seems to me more can be said for them than most of you posting at the moment. Don’t belittle the posts of friends coming to support our cause. As humans you know loyalty in the face of critisizm of this magnitude is hard to come by and not easily won. For these people to stand up for us, instead of turning their backs and joining the hoards of you throwing stones at us, is what true friendship is all about and you could all stand to learn a valuable lesson from them. We made a mistake, an err in judgment, some of us way more so than others, agreed. How totally human is that? So sit on your high and mighty horse and criticize, ridicule and hate and decide honestly if you think you are without flaws ever. And then live with the lies you tell yourself if it makes you able to sleep better at night.

To the other 115, you are what made this game great for me. Some of our friendships will be here for life. Don’t let what is said in this forum get you down. We are human, we made a mistake, and now we can never prove who we really are for the ban or make amends… but I know most of you are great. For the hacker… if there really was one…GG with as much sarcasm as can be typed. To Ms Grey and your staff... thanks for creating a game where I met such wonderful friends.

This is said beautifully. I think it needed to be seen again in case it was missed. I am a loyal friend of many of the 117, and I feel awful for the way this has gone down. I know my friends are all great people and have worked hard for years on their titles and other acheivements. I know that had they known the consequence would be this severe none of them would have done it, or ifthey knew it began with a hack they would never have been involved.
This has been a sad thing that has happened.
I don't care what the flamers on this thread say.
I am only here in hopes that someone from the GW STAFF will help my friends.
I don't want to play this game without them.
They made a mistake. Take all their items, ban them for a week or whatever but don't take their accounts. Don't ruin the online community they created that made so many of us fell like we were part of something great.

Abnaxus

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Nov 2005

Europe

Keepers of Chaos

11 Jan 2008 at 14:04 - 451

Quote:

Originally Posted by Venus Anu

This has been a sad thing that has happened.
I don't care what the flamers on this thread say.
I am only here in hopes that someone from the GW STAFF will help my friends.
I don't want to play this game without them.
They made a mistake. Take all their items, ban them for a week or whatever but don't take their accounts. Don't ruin the online community they created that made so many of us fell like we were part of something great.

I don't think that A.net can remove all their items, correct me if I'm wrong but this doesn't seem to be written in the EULA as a "punishment" for breaking it.

And if they're so fond of the game and so devoted to the community, they can buy new accounts and continue playing together with you and other friends.

Ebony Shadowheart

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2006

USA

SSW

E/

11 Jan 2008 at 14:08 - 452

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abnaxus

And if they're so fond of the game and so devoted to the community, they can buy new accounts and continue playing together with you and other friends.

Yes, I believe this is an option. They can always buy new copies and start over, might need to use an new email address for the account, but still an option. Perhaps they will learn from their mistake as well.

isamu kurosawa

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2005

United Kingdom

Me/

11 Jan 2008 at 14:08 - 453

What i find amazing is how people can say they didn't know it was an exploit but thought thats the way you are supposed to access the zone. Then later they state you had to have completed it the normal way first.

If you have done the area once you should know how things go, so you have no excuse for exploiting this "unknowingly".

Lady Ana Stacia

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2006

Germany

Beware of our Temper [BooT]

Me/

11 Jan 2008 at 14:09 - 454

Quote:

Originally Posted by Venus Anu

This is said beautifully. I think it needed to be seen again in case it was missed. I am a loyal friend of many of the 117, and I feel awful for the way this has gone down. I know my friends are all great people and have worked hard for years on their titles and other acheivements. I know that had they known the consequence would be this severe none of them would have done it, or ifthey knew it began with a hack they would never have been involved.
This has been a sad thing that has happened.
I don't care what the flamers on this thread say.
I am only here in hopes that someone from the GW STAFF will help my friends.
I don't want to play this game without them.
They made a mistake. Take all their items, ban them for a week or whatever but don't take their accounts. Don't ruin the online community they created that made so many of us fell like we were part of something great.

I am sorry but if they have been around that long, and are that great they never would have abused an exploit. They made their own bed and now they can pay the consequences.

Gattocheese

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2007

New Mexico

GWEN

11 Jan 2008 at 14:13 - 455

Quote:

Originally Posted by Venus Anu

This is said beautifully. I think it needed to be seen again in case it was missed. I am a loyal friend of many of the 117, and I feel awful for the way this has gone down. I know my friends are all great people and have worked hard for years on their titles and other acheivements. I know that had they known the consequence would be this severe none of them would have done it, or ifthey knew it began with a hack they would never have been involved.
This has been a sad thing that has happened.
I don't care what the flamers on this thread say.
I am only here in hopes that someone from the GW STAFF will help my friends.
I don't want to play this game without them.
They made a mistake. Take all their items, ban them for a week or whatever but don't take their accounts. Don't ruin the online community they created that made so many of us fell like we were part of something great.

If you read the post it says glitch. This wasnt a glitch. I dont know how to tell you people this over and over but some people hacked the gw.dat file so they could be in the test town, ferrying. Its a hack. Its an exploit. It has nothing to do with the repeat bug Anet has been trying to fix over wintersday.

I too have found out that a series of these "117" have been friends and old guild mates of mine. It does overly bum me out that they have been perma banned. But i deem this act a serious one. And just like Anet it should be taken serious. Have they learned their lesson? Probaly. Should they be given another chance? No. Humans are creatures of habit, especially in Guild Wars. I am sure most would not take advantage of an exploit again, but some would still do so no matter what. Even for the gain of virtual money. lol

Ebony Shadowheart

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2006

USA

SSW

E/

11 Jan 2008 at 14:17 - 456

Quote:

Originally Posted by RhanoctJocosa

Are you serious? Starting over after a possible 35 months? Epic fail. Perma banning is the ultimate punishment and for ANet to be throwing them around like this because of an error on their part is just insane.

A die hard GW fan would just rebuy the game and start over, yes even after 35 months, if they got banned. I never said they would be happy about it, I never said it would be easy, I simply said it was an OPTION. Someone that enjoys the game, worked hard for what they had, but wasn't devoted to the game will just move on. That's how it works.

As for Anet just throwing bans around...in this case, good for them. If people want to be morons and cheat, let them lie in the bed they made for themself. I have no sympathy. Yes, in some cases the ban may be misplaced, my sympathies to those and hopefully they can get things worked out. However, as I said in my original post, for those that hacked or those that knew something was wrong and went ahead anyway, they got what they deserved.

Had it been me that got banned, I'd be kicking myself in the a*s and b*tching loudly (at myself) but I would realize it was my own d*mn fault. Not whining about my stupidity on here.

quickmonty

Ancient Windbreaker

Join Date: May 2005

11 Jan 2008 at 14:21 - 457

To those who are truly guilty. Glad you got caught.
To those with a legitimate defense. I hope you get your accounts unbanned.

"But officer. I didn't know it was a crack house. My friend just dragged me in there and I didn't smoke any crack."

lolz

This thread is better than "You laugh, you lose"

And remember ... prisons are full or innocent people. Just ask them.

Uber Mass

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2006

The Netherlands

retired from gw [agro] still ftw

W/

11 Jan 2008 at 14:26 - 458

Quote:

Originally Posted by RhanoctJocosa

Are you serious? Starting over after a possible 35 months? Epic fail. Perma banning is the ultimate punishment and for ANet to be throwing them around like this because of an error on their part is just insane.

yeah its all Anets fault of using the exploit over and over again.... seriously? are you kidding me?

If you use a hack (changing program or using a 3rd party program to alter the game) or use a glitch (a flaw or unwanted error in the game) in their OWN BENEFIT is an offence.....

RhanoctJocosa

Legendary Korean

Join Date: Aug 2006

The Benecia Renovatio [RenO]

W/

11 Jan 2008 at 14:32 - 459

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ebony Shadowheart

A die hard GW fan would just rebuy the game and start over, yes even after 35 months, if they got banned. I never said they would be happy about it, I never said it would be easy, I simply said it was an OPTION. Someone that enjoys the game, worked hard for what they had, but wasn't devoted to the game will just move on. That's how it works.

Maybe 1 in a 1000 would, but that's besides the point. It's simply not fair.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ebony Shadowheart

As for Anet just throwing bans around...in this case, good for them. If people want to be morons and cheat, let them lie in the bed they made for themself. I have no sympathy. Yes, in some cases the ban may be misplaced, my sympathies to those and hopefully they can get things worked out. However, as I said in my original post, for those that hacked or those that knew something was wrong and went ahead anyway, they got what they deserved.

Not at all. Think of all the younger, less intelligent players who may have thought "Oh awesome, easy way to make good money!". They definitely do not deserve perm bans just because they were ignorant and stupid on one occasion- this is a game played by children after all. Give them a month ban and strip their account of all the money they made from the exploit, but definitely do not perma ban them. The fact that ANet would come out here and let everyone know what a good deed they've done by banning 180 odd people because of a lack of hacking protection shows what a pathetic gaming company they are.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ebony Shadowheart

Had it been me that got banned, I'd be kicking myself in the a*s and b*tching loudly (at myself) but I would realize it was my own d*mn fault. Not whining about my stupidity on here.

Umok.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uber Mass

yeah its all Anets fault of using the exploit over and over again.... seriously? are you kidding me?

If you use a hack (changing program or using a 3rd party program to alter the game) or use a glitch (a flaw or unwanted error in the game) in their OWN BENEFIT is an offence.....

Read what I post before you say anything else.

Lady Ana Stacia

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2006

Germany

Beware of our Temper [BooT]

Me/

11 Jan 2008 at 14:36 - 460

Quote:

Originally Posted by Venus Anu

I believe this to be a play on words. Not cool.

Do you really think Anet enjoys running around banning people from their game? I am sorry your friends got banned but they truly deserved it, you really think attacking Anet is going to change what YOUR friends did?

Wouldn't it be better to place the blame where it belongs? The only blame is with your friends who knowingly exploited the game repeatedly!

If your friends did it once or twice and got banned and truly didn't know I do hope they are able to get their accounts back. If they repeatedly exploited the game shame on them.

Ouchie

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2007

[Leet]

R/

11 Jan 2008 at 14:48 - 461

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keekles

Use exploit, be banned.

Here is where I can see both sides to the story. I personally have never used an exploit in the game but, I remember people going crazy over afk farming points in nightfall which everyone knew was an exploit - but those that did were never punished. There were other exploits used in the past with similar results.

So if you were one of the ones who did not hack the system - but had gone there as an invitee - why would you think it was wrong to use an exploit in this case?

If you knew the system was hacked it would be a different story. Then you knew it wasn't just an exploit and you should be punished.

Ebony Shadowheart

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2006

USA

SSW

E/

11 Jan 2008 at 14:49 - 462

Quote:

Originally Posted by RhanoctJocosa

Maybe 1 in a 1000 would, but that's besides the point. It's simply not fair.

I guess I'm only of those few. I have about 10,000 or so hours between my 2 accounts, but if need be I'd start over. Wouldn't be happy about it, but hey life isn't fair. "Life sucks, get a f*cking helmet." (Dennis Leary)

Quote:

Think of all the younger, less intelligent players who may have thought "Oh awesome, easy way to make good money!". They definitely do not deserve perm bans just because they were ignorant and stupid on one occasion- this is a game played by children after all. Give them a month ban and strip their account of all the money they made from the exploit, but definitely do not perma ban them. The fact that ANet would come out here and let everyone know what a good deed they've done by banning 180 odd people because of a lack of hacking protection shows what a pathetic gaming company they are.

So you're saying because people are younger they are stupid? Or that they can't use the brain in their head and think for themselves? Yes, I agree some of them were stupid and made a bad choice, in some cases this can be forgiven and hopefully those people get things worked out.

My opinion is simply that the more experienced, older players should have known better. Those that did that actual hacking seriously should have known better. You don't do something simply because you can and these people DID deserve the bans they got. Besides, if you have to hack a damn game to make gold, or use an exploit like this, its just pathetic.

I congratulate ANet for letting people know what they did. Its called good PR. Had it not been mentioned, brought to light, however you want to put it, down the road someone would have said "Why did they hide this from us?" We have enough doom sayers and conspiricy theories floating around as it is. We don't need more.

As for hacking protection; ya know, there's only so much you can do. If someone really wants to do something, they will find a way to do it. It doesn't matter if you have the best d*mn protection in the world. The phrase "sh*t happens" applies here.

I think you're intentionally missing my point.

Human beings are creatures of habit, giving people a slap on the wrist only does so much. Occassion more severe punishment and examples are required to keep the majority of the populace in line.

sterbenx2

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2007

New England

Lunatic Legion

N/

11 Jan 2008 at 14:53 - 463

This is not Anets fault at all. So they left something in the DAT file? Well, players aren't supposed to be playing around in the DAT file.

People have mentioned other exploits, ferrying and w/e, but this is TOTALLY different. Exploiting an in-game mechanic or something in-game that the Devs failed to see is one thing. Messing with the DAT file is totally another.

I still beleive that all this is the result of the economy adjustments Anet has done this year. Loot scaling, and everything related to farming and making money. Its now not as easy to rake in hard cash so people are attempting anything they can to can rich, even cheating. I am now currently going for the HM titles in Tyria and using the cash to work toward my Obsidian Armor and I have to say, after 5 or days I have 3 ecto, 1 shard, 35 Elonian Leather, and 350 Hides. I also have 5 or 6 req9 golds, nice ones too, and tons of max upgrades that nobody will buy.. tried selling stuff for 1k.. ONE! and to takers. In LA, Kam, KC.. noone. .pffft. The market SUX now. These cheat exploits prove it.

Noms

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Dec 2007

Me/

11 Jan 2008 at 14:55 - 464

I agree with the post "stupidity is not a defence". I went there once with a friend, but on arrival, was like "whoa hey, something's not right here" and mapped out. I still have my account, so I'm thinking that almost anyone who was banned and claims to be innocent isn't telling the full story of what they did.

Some of the excuses are funny though, like "i only did it every so often". Keep 'em coming.

gogo65uk

Banned

Join Date: Jun 2006

W/

11 Jan 2008 at 15:03 - 465

What can I say besides LOL at all you that think its wrong banning people for hacking or capitalising on exploits. They knew it was wrong and they got fat and rich off it now they got banned screw them and screw the fools that think its wrong. Guildwars is going to the dogs anyway there has been nothing new or interesting for months. I think a measly 117 bans (or what ever) I say thats a small number compared to how many actually benefited from the whole thing. Ban everyone involved. Now you can bombard with the noob calling and saying I don't know what I'm talking about coz I assure you I do. I got all I have by playing honestly with very little farming no scamming or relying on exploits or hacks. And ANET don't give them their accounts back they ruin what little economy is left in guildwars now.

imbanned2

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jan 2008

11 Jan 2008 at 15:05 - 466

Quote:

Originally Posted by sterbenx2

This is not Anets fault at all. So they left something in the DAT file? Well, players aren't supposed to be playing around in the DAT file.

People have mentioned other exploits, ferrying and w/e, but this is TOTALLY different. Exploiting an in-game mechanic or something in-game that the Devs failed to see is one thing. Messing with the DAT file is totally another.

I still beleive that all this is the result of the economy adjustments Anet has done this year. Loot scaling, and everything related to farming and making money. Its now not as easy to rake in hard cash so people are attempting anything they can to can rich, even cheating. I am now currently going for the HM titles in Tyria and using the cash to work toward my Obsidian Armor and I have to say, after 5 or days I have 3 ecto, 1 shard, 35 Elonian Leather, and 350 Hides. I also have 5 or 6 req9 golds, nice ones too, and tons of max upgrades that nobody will buy.. tried selling stuff for 1k.. ONE! and to takers. In LA, Kam, KC.. noone. .pffft. The market SUX now. These cheat exploits prove it.

>>>no.. not the cheats/bugs/ect cuz this was something old according everyone and the last 3 months at least the market was and is the same since ursan is out going down in a hole.. because everything is ubber farmed..

so for all those who call this a hack or w/e.. what about ProgTest? he "hacked" to get in? nope I dont think so.. and he posted how it works.. + gaile gray CONTRADICT every time.. so ppl why there is no a real clean nice truth? BECAUSE THERE IS NO HACK/3RD PARTY PROGRAM/ETC ..WAS A BREACH THAT THEY(ANET) LEFT OPENED<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Tiyuri

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2005

11 Jan 2008 at 15:09 - 467

I just wanted to say that internet is very srs business. Also, nothing was hacked.

You know I can tell you from experience that Guild Wars has absolutely appauling security, the amount of malicious and profitable things available to the very mildly technical minded is just funny. What's more, none of these exploits, vunerabilities and so forth are found by anet until someone reports them, either through the forums like this, causing a big ruckus, or through support.

I can tell you that i've been partly responsible for reporting a fair amount of the more serious ones, one's that make you think... how did you not know about this already? How is it that I'm sitting here and using a very simple method I'm able to make entire districts of people crash? Start earthquakes? So on and so forth.

Infact, I bet very few people know, but early on it was possible to modify your armor with a similar method, there were people running around on 80 AL monks, with 10 runes, some of which were secondary profession, whilst appearing naked.

There's just no security here, and whilst it's obvious that exploiting the game should be intolerable, I think when you build a game with little to no security and expect a user base, some of which play the game once a week? once a month? To instantly recognise when that security is vunerable or a bug has appeared is ridiculous. Most people who play games, play games as they see them, they don't bare in mind the development process, or the testing process, and they as consumers shouldn't have to. Let's pretend I've just joined the game, joined a guild and someone logs into the guild hall and says "Hey! let me take you somewhere, we can make a lot of money!". You go, you DO make a lot of money, and thus logically you ask to repeat it. I can't imagine the number of cases like this that are going to pop up if we continue down this ridiculous path.

And perhaps the most worrying thing is, 99% of these exploits and problems are performed without hacking ANYTHING, not the client, not the game server. They are security issues, and this is one of those times.

Crom The Pale

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Nov 2006

Ageis Ascending

W/

11 Jan 2008 at 15:10 - 468

As more and more info comes out we are learning a bit more about just what happened and why.

Like many I heard about this for the very first time right here in this thread, and like all the rest jumped to a few conclusions about what went on.

There have been many "glitches" in GW that most everyone has experianced. They are often associated with an update having an uninteded effect upon some aspect of the game. I have been involved with 2 such "glitches". The first was the BUG that allowed you to gain multiple 20% dmg bonuses to weapons through adding mods, the second was the Guild Hall mapping to locked locations. Niether of these were a result of someone changing the client for thier own benifit, but due to and update by Anet. The "glitches" were repaired and the effect upon the GW comunity was extremely small so no further action was taken.

Was it wrong of me to make a sword that delt 100% more dmg? Yes!
Was it wrong of me to use the GH to reach Vizuna Local Quarter with a non canthan char without joining a party that had the correct quest? Yes!

Are these things that will have an impact upon the entire gaming comunity? NO!
Should I be banned for making use of these "glitches" that were caused by Anet? NO!

Now we come to the "glitch" of the hidden outpost.

We now know that to get there you had A: be taken by someone that HACKED there own copy of gw.exe and B: had to already have completed the Mallyx quest at least once in the proper method.

This "glitch" was NOT cause by Anet in any way shape or form, it was completely created by the person(s) that altered thier copy of gw.exe to allow them to reach this outpost.

People that were taken to this outpost may not have understood that this was the result of a hack vs an update error. However, since they had to have completed the Mallyx quest at least once to gain entry, they should have noted that something was wrong.

At the very least they should have sent in a ticked to GW asking about this or posted in GWG's bug thread about it or asked the comunity in general about this unknown outpost.

These 117 either choose not to ask any questions about this "glitch" or they knew the truth and choose to make use of it. They broke the rules, they got caught and punished for it.

This is not the case of Anet making a mistake and then fixing it after the fact. This is clearly a case of someone creating a problem with the game, then involving others. Those that were involved should have asked questions, should have alerted Anet and should have figured out that they were doing something wrong and stopped.

Anet did the right thing and will be respected by the vast majority of players for it.

Aiden Arcana

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Nov 2006

Germany

Eazy Bake Oven [loli]

Mo/E

11 Jan 2008 at 15:16 - 469

Heh, to bad this wasn't for the lottery, because i was picked as one of the lucky 117. In all seriousness, this ban is not fair what so ever. okay, we exploited big deal. So did at least 80% of you when you learned you could make a new character and send it straight to Lutgardis and it was a free Legendary Survivor toon. And Anet says they care about the economy. Hmm, so THATS why you can get most HoH chest only drops in Gwen dungeons eh? Or the bots are still walking around in an International District near you. Ohh wait, Anet gains from Boting. person buys an account bots it, gets about a mil of gold from it, goes to a Ebay site sells the money for who knows, maybe $80
Buys a new account because eventually its going to get banned. So Anet pockets ~$40 and the person pockets $40 as well. Seems win-win to me. Screws up the game economy, but its win-win for them so who cares. Now 117 people go in and do runs (I did 10 found out more then 30 people knew and stopped all-together, ironically to stop me from getting banned) and they make a quick $$ without really affecting the economy and they ban us. Hmm sounds a bit off but its Anet.

Oh and if it WAS hacked it wasn't every 117 of us who hacked it. I wouldn't have a damn clue as to where i could actually hack or even mess with the .DAT file.

Mickey

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Feb 2006

Eternal Insight

D/

11 Jan 2008 at 15:16 - 470

I think alot of people that were innocent were banned without reason. Here is why.

As said in Gaile's post, they check people via how many times they had visited the outpost. Well, first you go to the outpost, you then beat mallyx, you get the quest again, go to the Guild Hall, go back to the outpost, to back to the Guild Hall, to get the ferrier, and then back to the outpost. That sums up 3 times per run. Now, people doing 5-8 runs will have it looks like they did 15-24. I wish they would just check the chest and see which accounts had opened it or not.

gogo65uk

Banned

Join Date: Jun 2006

W/

11 Jan 2008 at 15:25 - 471

Anet seem more interested in trivial trade/local channel bans than bots (I given up on that months ago) Big deal if someone sells on local everyone will read it so what if its a different colour. Just shows how trivial people can be. as for ProgTes's comment about me not knowing what I am talking about you can keep thinking that all you want I'm not interested and so what if I typed Guildwars and not Guild Wars its a forum not a writing or grammar lesson. Either way I'm sure Anet will do what they feel is right even if many people don't agree. Guess anything we say fall on deaf ears.

LifeInfusion

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: May 2005

in the midline

E/Mo

11 Jan 2008 at 15:26 - 472

I didn't know about this before reading the thread and I'm glad I didn't do DoA lately.

The problem is...how do you determine who hacked the dat file? How do you prevent people from being banned just for tagging along?

Venus Anu

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jan 2006

11 Jan 2008 at 15:28 - 473

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

More money in the economy means the drops you get are worth more than merchant value. That's not always a bad thing.

Well if everything were based on that then the money and goods obtained by these people wouldn't be frowned upon.... I don't agree with your statement.

ProgTes

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2007

Under that rock.

We Demand A Shrubbery [Ni]

W/E

11 Jan 2008 at 15:35 - 474

Quote:

Originally Posted by gogo65uk

Anet seem more interested in trivial trade/local channel bans than bots (I given up on that months ago) Big deal if someone sells on local everyone will read it so what if its a different colour. Just shows how trivial people can be. as for ProgTes's comment about me not knowing what I am talking about you can keep thinking that all you want I'm not interested and so what if I typed Guildwars and not Guild Wars its a forum not a writing or grammar lesson. Either way I'm sure Anet will do what they feel is right even if many people don't agree. Guess anything we say fall on deaf ears.

I wasn't commenting on your grammar.

But really, what does all the botting and spam in local chat have to do with the bans for using this exploit?

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifeInfusion

The problem is...how do you determine who hacked the dat file? How do you prevent people from being banned just for tagging along?

As far as I know there are only a select few who actually hacked the .dat file. A-net should have plenty of ways to detect 3rd party software, so I'm sure the founders are out.

Then again, most of these people were in the same guild - a hacker guild called Armbrace of Truth [DUPE]. Ironic isn't it? From what I've heard the entire guild got banned - tough luck if you were in that guild and didn't do anything.

As for everyone who got banned, it's probably: guilty until the opposite has been proven. If you really didn't do anything, fight for your case.

Ebony Shadowheart

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2006

USA

SSW

E/

11 Jan 2008 at 15:52 - 475

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Swift

LOL don't you remember the court case on the east coast someplace about 2 years ago where a man who stole a stereo from a truck was set free? Turns out state law only considered taking something from someone else's car without permission as theft if the car doors were locked. Since one of the truck doors was unlocked it was perfectly legal for someone to open it and rip the stereo out of the dashboard - according to the judge.

I left my car unlocked last year (even forgot to roll up my window, oops) and some teenage boys felt they had the right to rip out my stereo. The three of them got like 6 months in jail, 2 years of probation, and they had to replace the radio. I guess it varies from state to state.

However a person's home is different from their car. If you walk into someone's unlocked home uninvited, thats trespassing. If you steal their stuff, thats burglary. If you break into someone's home, that's breaking and entering. Trespassing is prosecutable although its rare. However, the other two are illegal in every state as far as I'm aware. lol.

sorry, off topic, but I just had to comment. I couldn't resist =D

zwei2stein

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jun 2006

Europe

The German Order [GER]

N/

11 Jan 2008 at 15:55 - 476

Quote:

Originally Posted by GloryFox

I'm surprised they did not use an Alt account to do their dirty work and transfer funds to their primary.

(h) Former Members. Members whose Accounts have been terminated by NC Interactive may not access the Service in any manner or for any reason, including through any other Account, without the express written permission of NC Interactive. Accounts accessed by Former Members are subject to immediate termination. NC Interactive reserves the right to use any means necessary, including those in section 4(i) to identify and remove Former Members.

Basically, if you get banned, your alt get banned too if they know you have them.

Besides, i am fairly sure smarter people did it on alts which didn't get banned, otherwise there would be much more whining.

Balkoth

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2005

Amerika

[TofT]

11 Jan 2008 at 15:59 - 477

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mickey

I don't think you guys understand. 90% of the 117 are gone, they don't use the forum anymore, or even have Alt accounts, most of them went to WoW. We could just close this topic now that fate has been decided.

/lock

I feel the same way. The reasons how and why people got banned can't matter much to the community at large. The only people affected by this new banlist are 117 out of how many active players(granted the 117 were probably more active than the majority of the GW population).

What intrests me is why this is such a big deal to everyone.

Gaile was very angry with people who got banned and made public remarks about them. Why? People get banned everyday, for things less consequental than this. Why does this incident recive the attention from the CR when there are so many more important issues on the table?!

Is this a scare tactic? A warning to all those who have been breaking the game?

I could see if this announcement was to cool the tensions of those offended by the exploit, but it could have been made less aggressive. Wheather or not any or all the 117 deserve to be banned is between the Banners and the Bannees. Repeatedly insulting or degrading the few banned is insulting the community at large. If people break the game(knowingly or unknowingly, it dosent matter), they should be dealt with by the proper authorities and not the game community.

I see a lot of strong opinions on this thread, none of them deserved.
To me this whole issue is just silly, and overblown!

Mickey

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Feb 2006

Eternal Insight

D/

11 Jan 2008 at 16:01 - 478

Gaile told me, as one of the 117, that I had no chance. But I think I do, I know I only used it 7 times, I have people that know I have only used it 7 times, I have 7 Mallyx greens for christ sake. I just hope some of the people that might have a chance will keep fighting.

Lady Ana Stacia

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2006

Germany

Beware of our Temper [BooT]

Me/

11 Jan 2008 at 16:13 - 479

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aiden Arcana

Heh, to bad this wasn't for the lottery, because i was picked as one of the lucky 117. In all seriousness, this ban is not fair what so ever. okay, we exploited big deal. So did at least 80% of you when you learned you could make a new character and send it straight to Lutgardis and it was a free Legendary Survivor toon. And Anet says they care about the economy. Hmm, so THATS why you can get most HoH chest only drops in Gwen dungeons eh? Or the bots are still walking around in an International District near you. Ohh wait, Anet gains from Boting. person buys an account bots it, gets about a mil of gold from it, goes to a Ebay site sells the money for who knows, maybe $80
Buys a new account because eventually its going to get banned. So Anet pockets ~$40 and the person pockets $40 as well. Seems win-win to me. Screws up the game economy, but its win-win for them so who cares. Now 117 people go in and do runs (I did 10 found out more then 30 people knew and stopped all-together, ironically to stop me from getting banned) and they make a quick $$ without really affecting the economy and they ban us. Hmm sounds a bit off but its Anet.

Oh and if it WAS hacked it wasn't every 117 of us who hacked it. I wouldn't have a damn clue as to where i could actually hack or even mess with the .DAT file.

Get your facts straight, not everyone is out to cheat or exploit. I seriously doubt that 80% of the GW community is cheaters and exploiters.

Just started 3 new toons recently going for Legendary Survivor and guess what I knew I could get mapped to Lutgardis but my morals stand above anything in the game and nothing is worth breaking those.

Milennin

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2006

Europe

W/

11 Jan 2008 at 16:14 - 480

I got a question...
A while ago there was some guy in Kamadan who randomly invited people into his party and then map travelled to an area called Shiverpeak Arena... The map was basically Yak's Bend and a large part of Traveler's Vale combined, without any monsters or NPCs.
I guess it was basicly the same as that hidden area in the Realm of Torment, some kind of testing map. Now this map didn't allow us to exploit some part of the game (we were just partying and running around), but if Anet discovers this thing is still being used, would there be the risk of getting getting permanently banned?