[Dev Update] Exploits and Bans – 10 January 2008

I'm not sure if he was leader or not but as the thread has progressed he's gone from "didn't know it was an exploit" to "knew it was an exploit only used it 4 times" and now "only used it 7 times" I think he deserves the ban same as most if not all of the other 117.

There was an arena there which has been closed mybe the link is still good on map travel.

http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Shiverpeak_Arena

Hey.
im one of the 117 poeple who got a ban. i would like to clear up a fiew points.

1. this is not a glicth or a hack. no body used a 3rd party program to get the hidden town. the town is mearly a test area anet didnt properly delete or fully seal off

2. we got there by accident. in the User Agreement there is nothing about accidently finding something Anet left in the game, we have not broken the T & C.

3. if i explain how to get the said town YOU WILL LAUCH ITS SO SIMPLE Anet know this and blaming hacking and banning people with no true reason.

4. The economy is in no way changed by the 117 people, i know for a fact the only thing the aquired armbraces were used for is Tormented weapons

5. The recent Guild hall mapping glitch is far more powerful than this, this is merely a taxi (verry simmilar to the urgos taxi a while ago) note ** NO hacking or 3rd party programs **

6. I persony said i would Show a GM ingame how we found it and would explain fully on how we obtained the town.

7. This secret town is not even half as bad in game as all the bot farmers in game gold sales. they are the true people who can ruin guild wars.

8. Form people Saying this is a hack, you just gave every true hacker in GW to try it and other things. again THIS IS SO SIMPLE AND STUPID HOW TO GET THE TOWN IF YOU KNEW YOU WOULD LAUGH

9.its not a exploit, its not a glitch. its something Anet left in the game much like ingame items they didnt remove. We have not broken any rules. Anet have no real reason for a ban. my ban was because i used a "in-game exploit" but there isnt one, the most they could ban me for is 72 hour taxi ban and lets face it, thats pothetic

10.Anet just need to accept they made a mistake this time. Anet are generly really good for fixing things and for a free to play game they do a great job. but they have took it a little too far this time. they need to unlift the ban and work more in finding and fixing these sorts of thing rather just a carpet ban and ignore it ever hapend. there are MUCH worse things in the game than this.

once again - NO 3rd party tools and NO HACKING

For those who used the exploit, permanent ban no second chance.
It is no secret that people who got away with it once will do it again.
For the rest its just about using time going through the chat logs etc.
That will show how innocent those are.

On a little side note I can add, that I banned players for hacking attempts, since preventing it from happening in the first place works much better.
Sure, they disagreed and argued about their bans, but that didn't really bother me, since every track was logged.
The main job is to to keep the main player base happy, since that is how you earn your money.

Saying I only did it x times, is like a thief saying, I didn't mean to steal it.

PS. if you enter a GM outpost you must be really stupid claiming that it is how it should be.
On top of that, going for a boss multiple times from that spot is exploiting.
So you can try to bend it as much you like, it is still an exploit.

I don't care if it was or not, you knew what you were doing and you kept doing so you could gain from it.

I don't believe you for one moment when you stand there and tell me you know exactly what went on across 117 accounts.

ofc the bots are a problem but thats a different matter, you need to accept you got caught, face the music.

Thats exactly my point. you cannot get a ban for a Taxi or Ferry.

And to all you people who claim is a hack or "the first guy must have hacked" you are totally wrong, everyone who has EVER faught mallyx could have found this town by accident. Anet also know this FACT.

your all trying to blame this on a hack because you dont know how it works. simple as that.

Its Laughable how you get there its so simple.

Just noticed a couple of threads:

For the New Player on a Budget ......... 117 replies
The Official Introductions Thread ........117 replies

Players banned for recent "exploit" ...... 117

MUST be a conspiracy!

7 times?

*Only* 7 times?

Gee, you really got banned unfairly.

It's like saying: Your honor, I didn't mean to kill the person. I was holding a knife, and they tripped and fell on it. Only 7 times total. It was obviously an accident.

The only ones who can appeal are those that enter the area, but never did Mallyx, or perhaps if they killed Mallyx once.

Like I said before - this thread is full of completely innocent victims. They only used this exploit repeatedly. By mistake. Not knowing. Doing DoA for the first time. Being forced into party with evil hacker. Due to Anet's incompetence. To get scammed out of $200 and 2 years of gameplay time.

Poor innocent victims.

Except that people still believe that those that play victim on forum are innocent or banned by mistake. No matter what - it's not easy to get banned, and it's even harder to get banned by mistake. People just love to omit certain details.

Lie whatever you want. The person who started all this crap confessed about the 3rd party tool already. You think whatever you want about it, but you were clearly one of the 117 who abused the exploit on purpose and deserve your ban.

What??? Are you saying ANet might lied when they claimed it was a hack?? O heavens, surely not. They are always so honest and accurate with the info they give us!

/sarcasm

Point -> it may be a 3rd party tool or it may not but I can't tell whose lying because I can't trust ANet to tell the truth. Would be handy if someone who claims it was not a 3rd party program or hack to tell us how it was done - wouldn't make any difference now since it has been fixed and would certainly help us know whether we should trust ANet or not.

according to Gaile the outpost is an integral part of the Mallyx quest and can't be removed..
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...&postcount=352
To the people asking for more leniency: we know the number of banned accounts, but not the number investigated in this matter. The number of looked at accounts might be far larger than 117. We have no facts to base upon how lenient Anet is!

Slavers seem to be made that way, but after seeing the surfacing of ferry, and the mass farming, anet changed their mind. They wanted people to be able to help other finish slaver even if they didn't finish the 4 origanal parts, similar to FA in SF, but when they ferrys droping people off started, tehy decided that to much gold was goin into the economy, and closed it off.

Also, this was a glitched town, it wasn't suppose to be in live servers.

Also if you claim it was simple to get into say town, then tell us. I assume the first person used a hack to get there, then used the guildhall to ferry people there. Of course you should be wary wehn you deal with dev only towns. Sound have sent Ticket to support about it, ask about using it. If a dumb GM say it seems ok, then u have documentation to protect yourself when the hammer drops, and if the GM is smart enough to pay attention and not give a macro anwer, then you would know to dnot mess with the town.

Care to explain why when I went to sell Mallyx's shields there were people selling it for 10-15k while 6 months ago I sold the same shield for almost 8x that amount? I understand the prices will go down by time as more people try it but not a huge jump like that. Also prices of gem sets have been dropping in the past few months (not that I sell them).

All that aside, if other people spend 3 hours doing a quad run, it's not fair for someone to go directly to boss and collect rewards in 20 mins. End of story.

Anyone can post this garbage thinking they have credit. Put up or shut up, if the way was simple and easy then post how it was done. The burden of prof is on you.

Even if it was easy there is a difference between what was done in this exploit and what was done for Duncan. If you can't tell the difference then you have issues of not understanding right from wrong.

Truzo were you the party leader or merely part of the party?

I would say the latter as you clearly do not have a clue how the exploit was performed.

There was a 3rd party program involved which enabled the party leader to change something he wasn't allowed to

all your posts have been nothing but "QQ'ing" and then you say your not bothered about your account being banned

Upto now the only banned person whom I have any respect for is DragonRogue as he admitted he did wrong and was stupid to do so, if a-net were to show leniency I would place my vote for him to be re-instated after a temp-ban purely because he admitted fault and was quite clear about it.

I have been reading, and my only question is who doesn't look for an easier way to make money, or obtain items? I know a few people who have gotten bans from this bug, and they are really good people. I stand firm in my beleif that this was in no way a "hack", but rather a leak of information by a game developer. Many of the players have spent countless hours in the game, and I look at it like this, the main responsibility comes from the game developers, in a way they should be thankful that this was found and now fixed. Permanent bans? I think abit overboard. Everyone who plays has a competitive nature and is looking for an edge on the rest of the competition, nothing more. If the software is that unstable, where there are so many of these "bugs", and this is not the first, maybe a more suitable action would be to fix the bugs, not to ban the players.

If the developers have proof that someone "hacked", well then that person does deserve the ban. But my guess is not all 117 people banned were involved in "hacking".

I know why you all keep thinking its some kind of hack, i would if i didnt know how its done and seen it for myself, a hack is the most simple and logical answer to think of, but no body hacked it ever, not "the first guy" no body.

it was found by people just going through DoA as normal. just like many of you we had guild DoA runs to do all 4 quests then mallyx where we would spend hours in all the zones.

please get a admin to ok-it and i will post exactly how it it done

They probably would have been thankful, IF they had reported it to them straight away and not kept on repeating it. And as for the "competitive edge", well I think its pretty clear to distinguish between right or wrong...no matter what spin you lot want to put on it.

As it was stated some pages ago, bans were not just given to these people but also ones who were repeatedly took part in the exploitation.

the go ahead and post how the exploit was done. Anet is saying it was a client side hack...you are saying it wasn't prove it... if it gets deleted here post it on another site...blog...whatever...because if Anet is lying to us about it being a hack then they need to come out and say so

Hack/Exploit/Glitch doesnt matter if you done over and over again with the knowledge its not the normal way to do it... you have failed and you got banned... No reason to discuss if its a hack, glitch, bug or in your own perspective non of these.

If someone is doing this and wants you to come along... You didnt think that it might be the wrong thing to do?? Maybe that its better not to do it??

To much QQ-ing allready in this thread...

Maybe better to lock it

And on that note, I am going to ask 1 question again. If you reply to it be specific. Please be logical and rational. Please address it from a technical and possibly economic perspective.

How is this different from ferrying to Slavers Exile and skipping the 4 dungeons there? This was fixed via an update...

Could Gaile or an ANET developer with access to design documents tell us how this is different?

imo duncan wasnt as huge of a deal as this was. in my eyes it was the dev's not coding the dungeon fully so it wouldnt let ppl go to him straight by a ferry.
this was a whole other story. you had to go into a hidden from you and your map outpost and skip the other four areas just to have an easy 20 mins for getting weaps that used to be 100k+ and a gem set.

in my eyes they all deserved the perma ban. you can also see in Gaile's post that the people that were banned were the people who benefited from it/did the run multiple times. which means that some people didnt get banned for just visiting the outpost

-In Slavers runner escorted player to a valid 'outpost' where they would do a quest they they don't have access yet (until they kill other sub-bosses).
-In DoA they were mapped to a outpost that is not accessible for players at all.

That's what I want to know.

You would think it would be FAR more than 117 people if it was so ridiculously easy.

I'd also be very interested in the details of the hack, as it would without a doubt shed more light on the presence of the hack. Between the 2 pieces of information, that should convince a lot of people one way or the other.

There's just not enough data for players to be able to make that many judgments. We don't know for sure there was a hack, or if there wasn't one. We don't know how easy this exploit was to exploit. And it's unreasonable to expect that much information because it empowers people to do those kinds of things again.

What we do know is that the Guild Wars Rules of Conduct say the following: "You will not exploit any bug in Guild Wars and you will not communicate the existence of any such exploitable bug (bugs that grant the user unnatural or unintended benefits) either directly or through public posting, to any other user of Guild Wars."

-k

ROFL, this whole thread sounds a lot like something that happened IRL in my area.

This criminal figured out a way to re-program an ATM machine to spit out more cash than it should. I don't know how he did it, but he was in the habit of going to a local 7-11 store and monkeying with the ATM in the corner so that he could request a $20 withdrawal from his bank account and the machine gave him $100 instead.

He'd gimmick up the machine, get his money and then fix the machine back the way it normally was. However, one day something went wrong. The clerk got suspicious or he received an emergency phone call or something. He gimmicked the machine, but then had to hightail it out of there in a big hurry!

It didn't take long for the locals to figure out this machine was giving out free money and many people took advantage of it before someone honest told the bank about the problem.

Guess what? The "hacker"/machine programmer went to jail. So did a lot of other people who took advantage of the free cash bonanza.

You used an exploit. You got banned. Learn your lesson and get over it. At least you only got a game taken away from you. If you feel that scamming and cheating your way thru life is OK then you'll likely end up in worse trouble than that.

While the EULA is all good and stuff...but when you are no longer under the terms of the EULA then all of that goes out the window. Anet terminated the agreement when they banned the players

Good job, A-Net. The less idiots playing this game, the better. It's like cheating on a math test while the teacher is watching you.

Some people just don't have ANY common sense. These people got what they deserved.

I am just going to let everyone know right now that it doesn't matter how many times you did the exploit, because based on what ArenaNet says, their methods of tracking how many times you exploited it is very flawed.

I don't see how 4 times can turn into 10+ times in their logs, but whatever method they use is horrible inaccurate.

okay, this a full mini guide how the mallyx/hidden town WAS done. this post is purly for educational purposes only and to clear up some FACT's and myth's

After knowing the truth about the town you will realise that it was a accident that could have been found by anyone who ever uses DoA and fught mallyx.

First of all. you need to have completed the first 4 areas and have the mallyx quest open in your log.

now, you then went in to kill mallyx as you would have done normaly to complete the quest. While in with mallyx (or the bit just before or mallyx himself it doesnt matter) your party then wipes (doesnt matter if your alone or in a team)

once your a squishy mess on the floor and the quest failed you press G and map to your guild hall (which you could have done anyways because you were miffed that you just failed)

you then can (from your guild hall) press the G and map back from your guild (yeh i know ill map back to DoA and get another team to try again) but NO !! you accidently get to the "hidden citadel of mallyx" secret town. so providing you dont leave your guild, you can hit G and map there as much as you like.

the only REQ to take other people there are: They also must have faced mallyx at some point it doesnt matter when it also doesnt matter if the other people have the mallyx quest or not. but they must be able to get to your guild hall (guild member or guest invite)

so you can map people there, once the people are there you change char and get a guild member (who you just maped to the town) to map you there.

Also in the town there is a "Enter Misson" button on the party info at the side

so now you all go in, kill mallyx or fail as normal.

when done, you all map out to DoA to get the quest again. and with your other char that still holds the town you map everyone there again and repeat.

note that this is no longer possible !!! and this post is just here to shut up the people who think its a hack. and if you people read carefuly you will see that the first time it was found was a complete accident no hack no 3rd party program. Anet did lie to you all - maybe they said it was a hack because they didnt know how it was done themself maybe which is fair enough.

Anet are good at fixing things in game and as you see whs fixed really quick.
but the point of the matter is, one person needs a quest to map them the same as Duncan or a Taxi to Docks for better armour. no body sould have got banned for a taxi. anet didnt properly seal off the hidden town - all they had to do was remove the "enter mission" button from the party info.

You may agree with the ban you may not - who cares. my point is that no hacking no 3rd party programs, just a error by anet and people were wrongly banned. yes a 72 hour ban for a taxi - but thats about it.

im now free from guild wars so it really doesnt affect me.

Now... can i get a show of hands who laughed ?

First off, those of you that say "Anet is to blame" are tards. There are most likly a handfull of LOCKED outpost all over the game to assist the Devs/Techs (exp. the end chest suddley stops spawning after you Kill Mayllox, people send in tickets and come complain on this site. You want the Devs/Techs to have to ALL Quests and work their way there for hours to see the problem first hand, or warp to the outpost and go? Hence LOCKED outposts in remote/hard to get areas)

For those of you that say "Hey all they did was use and explot, they did nothing wrong" If you found out a banks video cameras were not working would you then go rob it and say it was OK cause all you did was take advantage of an exploit? NOPE still broke the law.


Also, guilty people never tell the truth when they feel they can still get out of something. Alot of the "lucky 117" say they didnt know, or they only went once, or its not a hack. But they fail to give you all the details, Mickey came forward a little bit back there somewhere, saying he only did it once, then comming back saying he did several runs. I'm wondering how many of the people who were "taken there unknowingly" paid for the ferry? (exp. I'm spamming "LFG for Mayllox, first 4 quest complete" in DOA and get a whisper "Hey join us 5k plat and we ferry you to him" because I HIGHLY DOUBT the story of being randomly guest invited and being dragged in. People with secrets gdon't give them away for free, too much risk that whats happening now would happen. Even if they are not telling them "HOW" its done, I'm sure many paid for the ride and/or the guest invite.

I says oh well to those folks, they can go play Maple Story where eveyone hacks.

I can't see why it would be a problem to post if they've blocked it in game. Also I'm curious to hear what the deal is, and why the term hacked client is used if it's not accurate.

Well it appears that anet/someone has lied again....doesn't sound like a client side hack to me...sounds more like a bug that was discovered by accident and then taken advantage of...just like the duncan thing... GG Anet

If this is really the way it was done then ANet is lying AGAIN... big surprise there.

And, frankly, are a bunch of pig patooties for leaving such a hole in the first place.

And even bigger pig patooties for banning people since - to the player - this would not have looked all that different than leaving a char in Urgoz or the Deep for ferrying purpose.

And major big pig patooties for lying again.....and again....and again

What a fun game!

thumbs down for Anet for lying to us.
Thumbs down for users of this exploit because you *knowingly* went back there again

I'm fine with bans though as you went there on purpose over and over.

Let this be a lesson to both players and to Anet.

Hmmmm....interesting reading.
Butttttttttttttt.......why so many times in, and why, oh why didn't you stop when you realized it was wrong? (if you even felt it was wrong...><)
I see no remorse for your deeds (any of the 117) ...I see no "Yes, I was wrong, and I deserved my ban." All I see is " well crap, EVERYONE else that knew about it was doing it too, it's JUST an exploit, no big deal..get over it..and I really thought it was kewl to keep going back again and again"

Everyone knew it was wrong, buy if you can make up too 60k a hour (minus consumables and fails) wouldnt you do it ?

plus its great fun, and i also found a good purpose for my para, i can out heal 1 monk and 2 necro/rt at the same time

just like a holiday. fun while it lasted

Anet doesnt want people to know how exploits are done.

PERIOD.

This encourages other people to try it out in other portions of the game.

Thats why the details are almost always vague.

I believe that they said it was a 1 time 'promotional' offer, which is different. Just means they won't offer it as a promotional item again; they never said they wouldn't sell it.

All companies mince words like this. They have to use very specific wording carefully, else you could nab them for false advertising, which is illegal. You can look up Truth in Advertising Laws on the FTC website.

We really don't have any proof one way or another which side is lying. ANet can't release it's programming logs, or any documentation they may have for various reasons. We have a couple of different stories from people that have been banned. It's a lot of he-said, she-said. I have my own opinion, which I shall stick with.

Uh no.

Why?

First, I have a set of moral and ethical values that I do (try to) follow. If it's wrong, don't do it! "Just because you can doesn't mean you should"

Second, I'm not greedy apparently. Yes, I like having gold in game, but I do it the honest way (ie playing through the game, farming). I don't use exploits that may or may not screw up things for everyone else.

While i can understand them not wanting the info about exploits are done...they should atleast tell the truth and say that is was a game mechanic that allowed the exploit rather than someone hacking the dat file.

This might surprise you, but some of us have ethics. No, I wouldn't have used the exploit if I had known about it. I have no sympathy for those that did.