[Dev Update] Exploits and Bans – 10 January 2008

Also, if it does come out that there was no hacking involved, I hope Gaile doesn't get flamed for this. She obviously didn't make up that answer for us, if anything, one of the programmers/managers told her to tell us that. She wouldn't just intentionally lie to us, in all seriousness.

I haven't read the whole thread here so ignore this if I'm repeating things but:

I think anet needs to prove to the community that this originated from a client hack, not a glitch, to differentiate it from the outpost ferrying bugs that have been abused in the past (the fact that anet's staff couldn't get to the outpost without hacking doesn't prove anything; being unable to prove that somebody died of natural causes does not mean they were murdered). If the discovery of this mystery outpost did originate from a legitimate hack, then it is not the same as the other ferrying that has happened, and therefore anet is not using any double standard by only banning people involved in this, so nobody has any right to complain about inconsistent ban practices, which is a weak argument anyway.

If this did somehow begin as a game bug, not a hack, then anet has a dilemma: they probably can't find everybody who exploited other various map-travel glitches, so they can't ban all of them (and from the sound of it that is a large portion of the community, and banning that many people would probably not have a good impact on gameplay anyway), and they can't morally justify unbanning these 117 people who were caught knowingly exploiting a bug (assuming it was a bug of course, not a hack) for personal gain. So, since anet looks bad no matter how they respond if this was not a hack, of course they are going to say it was a hack; therefore I for one do not trust their word that this was indeed a hack, until they prove it.

just my thoughts on how to clear this up

I have to disagree,

First even if by some fluke that mapping back to your guild hall then mapping as to go back to DOA you ended up in the hidden test outpost only for devs.

The problem is that once you left you would not be able to get back there again, unless you can duplicate that fluke again (or altered your client so you can gain access to the area). But at that point it wouldn’t really be worth it.

Which leaves you with the fact that these people took advantage of an exploit that allowed characters to be parked in this outpost (much like urgoz/deep) then with those parked people they would ferry a select few to this outpost then change characters (be ferried in themselves) and go from there. And not have to fight the other 4 bosses and only have to fight one to get the quest rewards or end rewards. So it really doesn’t matter about the outpost even if the case it was accessible by chance. It’s the actions of the 117 people who exploited this outpost after they gained accessed to it.

I think a lot of people here have a good understanding on the fact that the banned people accepted the quest then got or ferried people into the outpost killed the end boss skipping the other four and did this over and over again at the same time getting the end rewards.

Anet doesn't need or even have to prove to some people on a message board that it was hack.

They believe(know) it was hack, they can act accordingly. It's there server (such is the case in ALL online game btw) and they can whenever and however they see fit.

But how though? Make a video of it and put it on Youtube or Veoh?

The point of the matter is, if these guys are going to stay banned, then ANet better own up and ban everyone who's ever used an exploit in this game. Because it's against the EULA. Duncan/Guild Ferrying, all against the EULA.

Out of curiousity, how many of you, who are banned at the moment, would ever go to DoA again if you are unbanned?

What was supposed to be a simple solution to an alleged problem has now evolved into something much more sever. For over the past 24 hours I’ve been hearing near to nothing, save hate and garbage, being spewed all across this thread, and any sort of light that is shone upon the masses has been beaten down by ignorance and insults. Enough is enough, and this is all I can take before exploding into a wave of frustration, disappointment, and utter distress.

I cannot stress enough how ludicrous it is to think that all the infamous 117 are greedy, evil, unforgivable hackers whose sole purpose was to exploit a programming error until all their selfish needs were satisfied while all other members of the Guild Wars gaming community were abandoned in the depths of an economic crash. Does that description sound over exaggerated and harsh? Well, anyone who knows the truth will be forced to agree on the fact that it is an inaccurate perception of the real situation, a situation that only Arena Net and the 117 know the truth behind. I ask you, why are the 117 being accused of such atrocities when there was never any hard, solid proof presented to the public that they were really guilty of the crimes they supposedly committed?

A veil of imprecision shrouds the definitions of “exploiting” and “cheating”, and now should we add “hacking”? I have had the honor of personally knowing a handful of the 117, and I will not be the first to admit that they are not hackers. In fact, they are so far from hackers, one of them can’t even set up Outlook. Does that sound like a hacker to you? None of them know what .dat files are. Are they still hackers? It is despicable when someone is wrongfully accused of being something they are not, and then the majority of the community exiles the accused and kicks them when they are down and stone then until they bleed. When did we all become liable judges? What justification exists that gives us the right to insult and spell out the fate of the defendants?

The definite lines between justice and discrimination are now blurred. Who is wrong? Who is right? The people that are not members of the two parties will never know the real truth, so let’s stop fooling each other. Arena Net is not telling the truth, and the 117 are not telling the truth… so where will this arguing get us?

The greatest lose that every single one of us will suffer from is trust. Those who were banned will never trust Arena Net again. Those who befriended the 117 will never trust Arena Net again. Those who felt they were cheated by the 117 will never trust the players Arena Net shuns from Guild Wars again. Those who stumble across future glitches will never feel comfortable reporting the instance, because can you truly invest a full amount of trust in the fact that you won’t be banned for accidently exploiting a glitch? Will you ever trust someone who says to you “Let’s go farm so-and-so! There’s an easy way to do it” without fearing you’re exploiting the game? Where does your trust waver now, or better yet has your trust in anything even faltered? If not, then leave the emotions to those who have felt the impact behind the bans.

I am sorry, Miss Grey, that you were the messenger who was selected to be the bearer of bad news. Being the face of Arena Net, your task was to retell the story the developers and the suits instructed you to relate to the public. I hope you will be able to sleep at night knowing that it’s your job to say what you are supposed to say, while knowing the truth is behind closed doors. No one will believe my friends because of the label you and your co-workers have placed on them. The perfect word was already used to describe the feeling that your accusations have wrought: demoralizing. It really is the perfect word, agreed?

I’ve grown tired of all of this. I want my friends back. I want them to have their dignity back. What right do you have to deny them of that? So you think they cheated you in a game? Big deal. Their reputation is ruined because of this nonsense, and that is much harder to fix than an imagined economy. My friends have been nothing but kind, helpful, and generous to countless gamers, and this is how they are repaid? Would you like to know a fact, a truth behind the handful of the 117 I know? They are great friends and have shown great amounts of character in this dark and unjust situation. That is more than I can say about several of the people who have posted here. Be ashamed, be very ashamed that you can judge people you don’t know and feel completely comfortable with yourselves...

Now I am ashamed of myself for ranting when I am completely tired and not in the best state of mind. Most sorry to those who has nothing to do with my peeves, and to all gamers out there, good luck to you.

I'm sorry ANet does not have to prove crap. You only have a license to use their game, that's all. That license is revocable at will by ANet. If ANet woke up on Tuesday and choose to kick everyone who had green dye they can.

Therefore the key to not getting a BAN is to not do anything that draws their attention in a negative fashion. THIS IS COMMON SENSE!!!

They have a RIGHT to refuse service to anyone for any reason. It's on the ALL RIGHTS RESERVED clause.

I work for software companies and it is a standard for all software contracts.

If you annoy ANET they can and will ban you. Deal with life it happens then move on. Meanwhile I'm enjoying my Guild Wars even more knowing that 117 trouble makers are GONE.

The community has been satisfied.

Of course they can do whatever they want with their server, but it is bad practice to whip out bans then not come out with hard proof that the claim backing them up is true. I have no idea how they would go about proving this (post chat logs with public enemy #1 gloating about his hacked client?), but I think it is the only way to prove that they are correct in their belief (knowledge) that the outpost was accessed via a hack.

yes totally agree..
IF truzo 117 is telling complete truth. perma ban maybe too harsh..IMO

Yeah they should, but I doubt they will.

Instead of a permanent ban, how about wiping everything clean from the offenders and stuffing all their storage and character slots with gemstones that cannot be traded, sold or deleted? Everyone would be happy then.

Why is it ludicrous? You act as though there are never bad people who do things to harm people and cheat the system.

Not at all.

And how would you know there was never any proof? Are you one of the guilty ones who got banned? If you are, then you know what they say about prison: They're full of "innocent" people.

good morning dear.
Hack or not, u kept it secret for months to exploit it as much as u could knowing it was a critical exploit.
Play with words as u like, post as many pages of rants u believe is appropriate, honest players will keep thanking anet for their effort to protect the game they love from greedy people who exploit it in every possible way they can.

Rant some more, then turn off your monitor, clean your brain from all the crap and ask youself " did i deserve it ?"
If the answer is "yes" then stop posting crap here and either get another copy of gw and play honestly or leave the game.
If the answer is "no" then accept that a.net has the rights to take all the actions to protect their gaming environment.

The difference between this situation and Duncan is very clear. With Duncan one could easily assume that it was a necessary function to allow players who had not beat the previous missions allowance into the final Duncan mission for the purpose of forming a party with ease for those who did beat the previous 4 areas. It was as is when the game was released therefore one could argue that it was intended. Everyone in the game still started at the same town location available to everyone else and it was not a secret etc.

In the case of Mallyx you had access to a town that was not even located properly on the map. You could not simply travel there. You cheated the starting point that was not available to everyone else. You skipped the path and went end game. You then exploited this easy access for personal gain, wealth and prestige breaking the spirit of the game. Completed the mission then rinse repeated entering a mission only available to you and your chosen few. This is not the same as Duncan as much as you want it to be. Your lying to yourself and others.

Thank GOD that ANet has chosen to re set everyone to ground zero with GW2. Where honest players have a chance vs. the corrupt and the sneaky.

This actually seems exactly the same as duncan except it wasnt a runner it was a party leader going out of GH. The outpost in itself was not intended but then again why was it labeled like an elite mission status. The people in duncan reaped the rewards just like we did. Took alot less time to kill the boss. Still recived the same rewards. As for the map if you looked at it on the map it was right under DoA just like how the Deep is right under Cavalon.

There's only one thing that needs to be said here.

Anyone who has done DoA before at least once should have the common sense to see that the exploit was not of normal playstyle and can therefore logcially assume it was a bug. It's no big secret that bug abuse is against the terms Arenanet made you agree to before using an account in their ownership. Anyone who say this should have left the game instead of staying to complete the exploit. They all know that bug abuse is against the rules, and it wouldn't have been very hard to figure out that an outpost not located on the map is a bug. They knowingly violated the terms of use, and recieved fair punishment in the eyes of Arenanet.

And don't go on saying "They didn't know". Come on, seriously, if you don't have the sense to recognize that skipping areas and going to a hidden outpost is a bug, then I would think that you would have been banned ages ago for not knowing that using third party programs is against the rules, even with the notice on the login screen. This isn't handing out bans at random. This is punishing those who violated the terms of use. If you want to harp on Arenanet for that, then you can do it all you want, but the fact is, they had every right, rhyme and reason to ban anyone involved who did not leave the game or was not on thier first time, which I doubt anyone was or did.

Three areas, huh??? Well, I guess one person doesn't know...

Pardon the typo, it is corrected now, but you get the idea. I'm a bit sleepy. I mixed it up with the three dungeons prior to duncan on that same thoughtline if you must know.

Regardless, it makes no point expressed in the above invalid, if I did or did not intend to say that.

For god's sake people, this has nothing to do with real-life situations, WoW, hacks or whatever. You people are insulting every single one of the 117, dubbing them ALL hackers. Every single one of you who have NO IDEA what happened should stfu. You know nothing. NOTHING. Sure, one or two may have hacked, but for the other 115-116, put yourself in there shoes;

Someone PM's you. "Wanna do Mallyx???"

You: "Sure"

Someone: "Have you done the 4 areas before???"

You: "Yeah"

--- After Mallyx ---

You: "Thanks for the run"

Someone: "Wanna do it again???"

You: "Uh, ok, I got time to do the 4 areas"

Someone: "You don't need too. But keep it down"

You: "Kk"

Do NOT BS and say you wouldn't consider it. Maybe not do it, but you would definately consider it. One/two people you can address as hacks, but for the rest who were given an opportunity to make maybe 20k every 30mins.

My only regret is being oblivious and naive.

I and others don't need to "BS" to say that we would not consider it, as we posess the common sense not to abuse game bugs. People who do not realize that this is against the rules and respect it as much as any other rule deserve any punishment Arenanet gave to them.

You cannot accuse people they would steal a quarter if it was lying on the ground but belonged to someone else. Your thesis is ignorant and makes no point in attempt to stereotype all people who may have been exposed but were not as people who would have considered exploiting the bug.

I'm going to bed. It's too late to deal with people's lack of common sense.

Yes, it is possible that some of the 117 that were banned were in fact, innocent. However, it is obvious from previous exploits that there are those who will use an exploit for their own personal gain, whether or not it has any effect(s) on the game. Now, if a person were to find an exploit that could produce great returns, I would bet my bottom dollar that they would use it for their own selfish gains. So does your description of the 117 sound ludicrous? No; not at all.

Now why would any and/or all the evidence pertaining to this issue need to be presented to the public? All it would accomplish would bring closure to the skeptics who believe A-Net is incompetent, deceiving, or both.

Now we are just getting into symantics. The fact remains that an exploit was intentionally abused by a group of people to obtain certain rewards through an obviously easier method.

Was that wrong of them to do so? Yes.

Was it against the EULA? Yes.

Should they get banned? Yes.

Is there a need to add insult to injury for those who were banned? Nope, but that does not mean that it isn't their prerogative.

A-Net is not telling the truth? Now what would A-Net gain from just making all this up? So they could ban 117 of their customers without any foreseeable benefit other than being malicious? Sorry, but this just seems like some crazed conspiracy theory you are concocting up.




To those who were indeed banned unjustly, I wish you the best of luck in rectifying this.

minor leap of imagination: The entire GW community would spl0it these h4x for all theyre worth.

Considering how much QQing is coming from 117 spl0iterz, I reckon ANet were far too LENIENT, I say: Permanent ban for anyone who was on any one of these 177s friend list, too~!

Saying that everyone else should keep to themselves because "it's none of their business" is rather incorrect. It is an online game with an affected economy (just one of the factors, not the factor) as well as numerous other factors. I play it, so therefore it affects me.

Trust me. The economy was not affected enough to cause a ban of the proportion. Are you saying that bots don't affect the economy enough and A-net doesn't need to do as much about it as the 117??? Please...

yes b/c anet has NEVER banned any bots before right?

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s....php?t=3043462

They do, but once these bots make enough profit from that one account by acquiring enough in-game gold, sites sell this in-game funds raised by the bots, a-net then bans the account knowingly that the site will buy more accounts, making a win-win situation for both.

However, this has nothing to do with 117, so please, I don't want to repeat...

It's more a lose-lose situation, actually: They can either let the bots go unbanned and acquire large sums of gold, or ban the account and suspend their actions momentarily.

Also, a large amount of bots come from stolen accounts. Whether it's "large amount" or "majority" I don't remember.

That statement is contradictory.

You say its lose-lose??? How come these sites are still active???

And A-net still gets money for the accounts regardless where they're stolen from the original owner or not.

Because they, the bots, are hard as hell to stop.

ANet potentially loses a customer if an account is stolen. It really depends on the individual, really, but I for one would not want to have to spend another huge some of cash for all four titles.

I was one of the unlucky ones i lost 2 accounts cos of this.
And btw the people who showed them this glitch also got banned.
wat galie gay said that no one got banned for visiting the area and that is lies cos i got banned for visiting it and so did alot of others.

I'm really annoyed at how people allways try to find the easy way out. Maybe you didn't all "hack" but you sure knew you were "cheating". You just hoped to get away with it. You might think you're not doing anything harmfull, but I allways find that how people act while playing a game they enjoy during their spare time is a pretty good show of their character.

You will be surprised there are some that didnt know it was a bug, i was 1 of them.. believe it or not..its not like that area Says This is a bug area please leave -.-.. if it says that every1 will leave

Wow, because clearly you can zone to Mallyx's chamber normally by doing some uber quest right? Over a full year of NOT being able to go there, and all of the sudden with a traveling glitch, you suddenly believe that this occurrence wasn't a bug? Your either not the sharpest scalpel in the biology lab, or your trying to act innocent. I am going to go with the latter out of sheer respect for not trying to insult you.

I used the exploit and got banned, ya i suck. but the only problems i have are:

-No one got banned for the Guild Hall Travel Exploit, that allowed infinite number of chars to travel to anywhere in the game.

-No one got banned for the Slavers exploit, that killed the EOTN economy and completely dropped the prices of many "rare" skinned weapons, weeks after being introduced into the game

-When the big duping exploit happened not to long ago, hardly anyone besides the original ppl who discovered the duping method were banned, even though thousands profited off of it.

I dont care if they strip my account of everything, all my armor and weapons and money, i dont give a shit. i just want my monk back.

ive spent more late nights and been on more adventures with that lil guy.

and yes im f'ing crying about this, call me a QQer all u want.

im sry

i just want my Misera Cantra Mo/E back

Did the people who took their level 4's to the Central Transfer Chamber makes bookoos of gems and gold? I think not...

Your guilty, as you stated. Get a new account and don't exploit this time. Simple as that.

And yes, I agree about the dupers. They should witch hunt the 1,000s of other players that performed dupes and ban the crap out of their accounts. I am NOT being sarcastic here, I am dead serious. 1500 armbrace bids my hairy ass!

Slaver's "Exploit" was more like a glitch that was built into the mechanics of the game. No one really realized it was an "exploit" until they told us it was. I used it, was a great way of making money. It still required a lot of effort to do though. The fix is half ass anyways. They should have made a more elegant fix for it, and I don't mean Soul Reaping elegant.

i honest to god didn't use the the mallyx exploit more than 10 times, cuz i only got one armbrace and had legitimately farmed the previous gems.

punish me by taking all my hard earned money and armor sets, but dont take my monk away from me, jesus

Why not unban the people and just have a reroll

ps yes they did

ppl were selling trips to anywhere in the game for anywhere from 5k-50k

spamming it in LA, KC, Kamadan, and anywhere else they well plzed