Should Lootscaling be removed after the new Rtm policy?

Loot scaling wasn't just a counter against bots. It was also a counter against hard core farmers that got rich by merching the white junk items. Now people are asking for it to be reverted. I don't really care either way, but I don't see it happening.

Though it obviously didn't work out QUITE as they intended, this has been their stance on it from the start. :/

This is what I don't like:

People with lots of actual money will become relatively poorer in comparison to other players.

I worked hard for my money.

Hardcore farmers don't merch white junk. Hardcore farmers go to UW, get themselves 20 ecto's and sell them for 10K each to get major profit. It's the casual farmers that sell the white junk cause they can't farm other stuff. People don't get rich by farming trolls. Unless you, of course, farm 20 hours a day.

Also, this quote about how they thought Loot Scaling was gonna turn out is so wrong:



With a trade system like the one we have now, it's impossible to buy/sell items in outposts on a quick rate. Also, because of stuff like Inscriptions, 99%of the weapons became worthless and it's better and faster to just sell them to the merch. If by chance someone that NEVER farms finds a golden weapon, he can't do anything with it cause it's worth nothing anymore.



And it becomes a problem how? With the many goldsinks we have in the game these days, we NEED a huge influx of new gold. Also, I don't really care how much gold an other random player can make a day. If it's about prices, the buyer makes the price in the end. If nobody wants to buy an item for 100K, the item will become worth less. Unless nobody sells either, which is not the case since without Loot Scaling more items will drop and the economy will flood with all sorts of weapons.

Everyone's money will be worth less. Not just yours. So it doesn't really matter.

Just want to make it clear that I'm not defending them...as I said I don't really care either way. Just stating that this is their stance on it, and I honestly don't see them reverting back to what they saw as a problem. :/

Put it this way.

Every Pre LS farmer now is :

a) Stopped playing GW.
b) Grinding titles.
c) An ursan doa junky.

Everyone's money is already worthless because it's hard to come by. Why do you think that nothing above req 9 sells? People don't have a lot to spend, so they won't purchase it.

How about removing loot scaling from normal mode and keeping it in hard mode? The casaul farmer can still go out and kill a bunch of low end things to get money for titles and the advance farmers goes out to find rares.

As a hardcore farmer I don't even bother picking up whites unless I need feeler when I am done farming an area (meaning I have a couple empty slots).

i've been thinking about this since they introduced the "report" function and you could report bots. you don't see any in altrumn ruin anymore, there used to be atleast 20 every time i was there before. same in rilohn refuge. same in granite citadel.

just because some smartass has written a program that puts normal players out of pocket, doesn't mean that normal players should feel the same force of loot scaling.

they should feel the pain, not us.

big thumbs up on the crack down of RTM

/signed, i want my trolls back.

Thanks for digging up that quote. That is what I remember the original rationale being.

However, I'm not sure how you can say things didn't work out as intended. It seems to me the economy we have is exactly what they were shooting for. Farmers can farm golds, greens, ectos, etc. to re-sell to others, but the amount of money in the economy is reduced making all non-farmers relatively more prosperous. I'd say that is exactly what has happened.

Everyone talks about the economy being "broken" or "ruined". One of the biggest problems with nearly every MMO out there except GW is massive price inflation. I was listening to a Virgin Worlds podcast a few weeks ago and they were saying how price inflation is one problem MMO's haven't figured out how to solve. I wanted to yell thru my I-Pod that one online RPG has figured out how to stop runaway inflation.

Do we really want to be like every other MMO out there? Keep Guild Wars unique. Keep Loot Scaling.

Only reason I said that was because of all the people that seem to be whining about it now. personally I feel that things are fine as they are, too. I said way earlier...I'd like to avoid ever seeing ectos costing 15k again. Removing Loot Scaling would cause the price of stuff to rise. I don't see how that can be ANY benefit to a "casual" player. Yeah, you can make more gold...but things also COST MORE.

Yup, and that's why I feel they won't revert it. The way it was, was a problem to them. The way things are, is how they wanted. I don't see them changing it back.

Only the hardcore farmers farm golds, greens ecto's etc. Casual Farmers don't have the time to first try their luck on finding a green item, and then spending several weeks trying to find a random person who buys the green or gold for 3K.


So having the same economy makes GW the same as the other games? Inflation doesn't matter in a market with fixed prices. As for the weapon prices - weapons only go so high as 100K + ecto's because players actually buy them for that price. Stuff like Crystalline Swords are bound to get a high price cause there is little offer and alot of people who want it.

Guild Wars dealt with the inflation the wrong way. They made people poor in a market with fixed prices. Sure, some weapons will become cheaper, but weapons will always become cheaper as long as people farm them. The more items enter the market, the more people will have them, the lower the price will become cause the demand is less.

If nobody farmed Raptors and Corsairs, the Ele Sword and Colossal Scimitar would still be 100K + ecto's now - loot scaling or no loot scaling.

Inflation DOES matter. Not everything has a fixed price. Crafting materials, dyes, mods, and weapons, for starters. Why would anyone want to go back to 12k ectos. 40k sword mods?


So, what did they do wrong? How would you have dealt with it? And I beg to differ about making everyone poor. After loot scaling I'm doing just fine, and I don't farm 24/7.

Wouldn't the influx of high-end items reduce demand and make them cheaper? You can try to sell that [insert high end-item here] for 100k but if there are 30 other people selling the same thing for 40k you prolly won't be selling anything at all. Price inflation today wouldn't be the same as it was a year ago. More people are done with the games and are capping off their PvE experience with title grind and leet gear, more people are capable of generating income through solo farming(despite ANet's attempt to annihilate it at every turn).

Most people I know hate loot scaling. While I enjoy a good pug or alliance group as much as the next person sometimes I just want to generate cash for myself. Its quicker and no is there to moan about how much better your drops are than theirs. Anyway...its hardly a help in most places in NM anyway. The difference from before is so negligible that most casual players porobably haven't noticed any real difference. *sigh* Having a 6th finger or 3rd nipple can make a person unique but not in a way you'd necessarily want. So the idea of being unique for its own sake is just plain garbage.

No Loot Scaling won't impact the ecto price or swords mods. The reason they were high in the past is cause there weren't good builds to farm UW back then and you were never sure which mod you salvaged off a weapon.

In fact, ecto's, dyes, materials and weapon mods have nothing to do with the Loot Scaling at all since they are on the Exemption list. Loot Scaling made prices of stuff go up (Like Ecto's, the prices for them raised with like 2K a few hours after the Loot Scaling came). The Exemption list is the one that makes the prices go down.


The whole Loot Scaling was wrong. Before the Scaling it was just fine as anyone could get cash. These days, only Hardcore farmers get rich from farming the Exemption List, while Casual players, who farmed Trolls, got kicked in the teeth.

Exactly. A guildmate of mine who just started playing bought a req 9 max sword with decent mods in Lions Arch for 3k. She would never have been able to do that in the pre-LS economy.

With respect to Raptor caves, remember that pre-LS, Anti-farming code kicks in on your 4th or 5th zone. At that point, no ele swords would drop for you at all until you got the code off you somehow. Sure, you could farm Raptors repeatedly and merch all your whites and buy it eventually from some very lucky player. But in a Pre-LS world, items like ele swords would be very, very expensive. Today, it is possible to farm it or buy it at a much more reasonable price.

Yes she would have. Time goes on drops become more common Loot scaling or no.

They also don't have to put the anti-farming code back in if they remove Loot Scaling. If they don't want everyone to have stacks of money then they can just reduce drop rates of certain things. I mean you'd be making decent money off the gold drops and white drops so it wouldn't matter if some of the sword prices rose 3-8k (which would probably be the max).

This topic suddenly strikes me as funny.

We have people arguing advanced game economics with people who only care about trolls dropping more raven staffs.

Pointless, so I'm bowing out.

req 9 max swords weren't worth alot pre-LS either. Only the rare skins.


I still get no drops after my first few Raptor Runs. A-Net might have removed what they called 'Anti-Farming Code', but they still messed around with drops without telling us. Also, before the Loot Scaling the Anti-Farm Code wasn't that bad compared to the 'Anti-Killing-Monsters-At-The-Same-Time' code we have now.

In a pre-LS world, everyone would have an Elemental Sword now cause Raptors are one of the most easiest farms.

Lol. Actually, you're exactly right. The "unique" argument is total BS. I just get it used on me a lot for various things I've suggested, and thought I'd give it a go.

However, it remains that LS has fixed inflation, and made the game a lot more affordable for non-farmers.

Normal-Mode Troll farmers, I will admit, have been hurt. There are many, many other farms out there and it is quite possible to make plenty of money. Please visit the farming section on Guru if you don't believe me. Admittedly, you will probably need to complete the game to get to some of the better spots, but is that really so much to ask?

You should spend more time in the farming section. There is a long thread there debunking the notion that rapid killing affects drops. I linked it earlier.