Should Lootscaling be removed after the new Rtm policy? - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

CHannum

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2007

W/E

27 Mar 2008 at 19:26 - 1001

Quote:

Originally Posted by reetkever

Guild Wars CAN do without it, as the days before LS were better for everyone than now.

Take off the rose coloured glasses and stop drinking the nostalgia Kool-aid.

How could this possibly be true? Under LS there is no change to the farming of pretty much every single thing anybody might actually exchange money over. Further, since the drops were altered for hard and normal mode, it's even easier to farm these items than at any point pre-LS. The only thing altered by LS is the amount of gold that can potentially enter the economy, that's it.

If the potential influx of desireable items hasn't changed, and the fixed prices of "elite" vendor items hasn't changed, then the only two things that can possibly be altered via LS is the price that a seller can get in a player to player exchange and the rate that people can acquire special vendor goods. The first effect is called market adjustment: you get a relative increase of desireable goods compared to the liquid capital and prices drop even though purchasing power for actively playing people remains the same or even increases. The second effect I've already beaten beyond recognition, but I'll say it again anyhow: if you play the game, you still seem to be able to achieve these goals at a fair rate.

It was certainly a lot less time and effort getting a suit of elite armor in GW than a basic mount in WoW

Willow O Whisper

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2007

Denmark

Knights Of The Sacred Light [KSL]

Me/A

27 Mar 2008 at 19:30 - 1002

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eldin

I see someone put up a vote - as you can see, LS removal is winning.

Also on topic, I bet everyone who says LS doesn't need to be removed is...
1) Some newbie who doesn't know how epic the pre-LS days were.
2) A goldbuyer who's too rich to care.
3) Some evil 55 monk bot master who's too rich to care.

If you are not from the old days, stop whining about how LS is awesome. It's NOT. To you it may be, but FYI things were a LOT awesomer back before LS. You never experienced it, you have no say in it, LS is of concern to people who were there before it - sure it's nothing to you new people, so this is not your affair. So if you're some 2007 player here to whine about how we're all nubkaekz who want LS removed so we can get rich by doing nothing, please hit Alt+F4 right now.

/bows 1234....100

MithranArkanere

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Nov 2006

wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigo

Heraldos de la Llama Oscura [HLO]

E/

27 Mar 2008 at 19:30 - 1003

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eldin

I see someone put up a vote - as you can see, LS removal is winning.

Also on topic, I bet everyone who says LS doesn't need to be removed is...
1) Some newbie who doesn't know how epic the pre-LS days were.
2) A goldbuyer who's too rich to care.
3) Some evil 55 monk bot master who's too rich to care.

1) I was before LS. The few times I farmed, most of the things that dropped where merchant fodder. When I farm now, I get golds, tomes and other rare items.
2) I'm not rich, I rarely have 100K in storage, no one needs more. And... well... my IQ prevents me from purchasing gold online. You have to be... not very bringht to do so.
3) There is no need to be a bot master to be an evil 55 monk. Probably a many of those that agree with LS removals have 55 monks. My monk exist only to heal, protect and smite, though.

Again, and again, and again. LS does not affect you unless you want to get cash by farming.
If you want to remove LS to get more cash by farming, then, you are wasting time asking for it.
LS is only an issue for solo farmers. "Solo" "farmers".
Farming is will not be stopped, but will not be enforced by Anet, either.

Asking for LS removal is like asking for an special User Interface for runners... the word is... NAIVE.

CHannum

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2007

W/E

27 Mar 2008 at 19:33 - 1004

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eldin

If you are not from the old days, stop whining about how LS is awesome. It's NOT. To you it may be, but FYI things were a LOT awesomer back before LS. You never experienced it, you have no say in it, LS is of concern to people who were there before it - sure it's nothing to you new people, so this is not your affair. So if you're some 2007 player here to whine about how we're all nubkaekz who want LS removed so we can get rich by doing nothing, please hit Alt+F4 right now.

I'm sorry, I wasn't aware you had special status due to all the extra money you'd somehow made for Anet on their fixed cost game by having continued to play the same game for at least twelve months straight versus all those 2007 players that probably comprise more than 90% of the active player base. The sheer madness of thinking their opinions might matter.

MithranArkanere

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Nov 2006

wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigo

Heraldos de la Llama Oscura [HLO]

E/

27 Mar 2008 at 19:35 - 1005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sypherious

CHannum

Join Date: Dec 2007

Young man, GWguru join date is different than GW join date.

Sypherious

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Sep 2007

It's Over Nine Thousaaaaand

Mo/E

27 Mar 2008 at 19:38 - 1006

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

Young man, GWguru join date is different than GW join date.

I don't recall every typing that message.

Anyways, I have a question to everyone. Why would you not want LS removed? If you don't farm, it wont' effect you either way. So stop discouraging the removal.

Gli

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

27 Mar 2008 at 19:40 - 1007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eldin

I see someone put up a vote - as you can see, LS removal is winning.

Also on topic, I bet everyone who says LS doesn't need to be removed is...
1) Some newbie who doesn't know how epic the pre-LS days were.
2) A goldbuyer who's too rich to care.
3) Some evil 55 monk bot master who's too rich to care.

You'd lose that bet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eldin

If you are not from the old days, stop whining about how LS is awesome. It's NOT. To you it may be, but FYI things were a LOT awesomer back before LS. You never experienced it, you have no say in it, LS is of concern to people who were there before it - sure it's nothing to you new people, so this is not your affair. So if you're some 2007 player here to whine about how we're all nubkaekz who want LS removed so we can get rich by doing nothing, please hit Alt+F4 right now.

You dare call us whiners? Oh, the irony.

Sypherious

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Sep 2007

It's Over Nine Thousaaaaand

Mo/E

27 Mar 2008 at 19:43 - 1008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

You dare call us whiners? Oh, the irony.

Maybe you misread. He's calling the 2007 people that want LS removed whiners. Not you.

MithranArkanere

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Nov 2006

wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigo

Heraldos de la Llama Oscura [HLO]

E/

27 Mar 2008 at 19:43 - 1009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sypherious

I don't recall every typing that message.

Anyways, I have a question to everyone. Why would you not want LS removed? If you don't farm, it wont' effect you either way. So stop discouraging the removal.

XDDDD

The reason for not removing it is the same for adding it:
- Because people that farm get more cash that those that do not with much less effert, forcing those that do not farm to do so if they want to mach the prices set by an inflated 'economy'.

If 20% of the players get 100k per day and the rest 5k, there is something wrong there.

With LS, there is not much difference in wow much gold you get unless you dedicate to trade with the items, and by 'wasting time' trading, the extra gold is somehow compensated.

As I said many times and I repeat now:
Farming is not and never was meant to be the way to get cash. LS never removed the way to get cash from anyone. Since LS only affects farming, there is no reason to remove LS.

Gli

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

27 Mar 2008 at 19:44 - 1010

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sypherious

Which is exactly why I posted it, so people know.

You're opposed to lootscaling, yet you want to let people know why it isn't such a big deal anyway? That's a grand gesture, well done.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sypherious

Maybe you misread. He's calling the 2007 people that want LS removed whiners. Not you.

I think you're the one misreading something.

Willow O Whisper

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2007

Denmark

Knights Of The Sacred Light [KSL]

Me/A

27 Mar 2008 at 19:47 - 1011

Those quotes should link to the post in wich they were written.....

Sypherious

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Sep 2007

It's Over Nine Thousaaaaand

Mo/E

27 Mar 2008 at 19:49 - 1012

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

You're opposed to lootscaling, yet you want to let people know why it isn't such a big deal anyway? That's a grand gesture, well done.

I think you're the one misreading something.

Who the hell are you to say that I'm opposed to lootscaling? I posted it purely to give everyone the info on what it doesn't effect. Don't even think about flaming me.

HawkofStorms

Hall Hero

Join Date: Aug 2005

E/

27 Mar 2008 at 19:50 - 1013

Of course LS removal is winning the poll.

People are short sighted greedy ******s who think that getting 8 times as much money from solo farming will help them. Nobody thinks of long term consequences (just take any Poli Sci course).

MithranArkanere

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Nov 2006

wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigo

Heraldos de la Llama Oscura [HLO]

E/

27 Mar 2008 at 19:53 - 1014

More cash by farming would only grant two things:
- Reduction in value of crafter/collector stuff (even more).
- Increase in price for any item sold by players to players. Leaving anyone refusing to farm out of the equation at all.

It's not amusing when 4 people make a circle and try to keep everyone else out.
The 'punishment' for those was LS.

Act and consequence. People farm too much, LS is added.

Easy, uh?

CHannum

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2007

W/E

27 Mar 2008 at 19:56 - 1015

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

Young man, GWguru join date is different than GW join date.

Regardless, I've made no secret as to my relativelnewness to GW (fall of 2007, so, yes, I am one of those whiners

).

However, that date hardly reflects my willingness to research games I'm playing, nor my lack of history with games of this nature, nor a fascination with analysing game design and theory going back to the early 1980s.

IF LS were something wholely unique to GW that I'd never encountered in all my days, I would agree I shouldn't be commenting. Since it's nothing new under the sun either to gaming or myself, I feel fully qualified to put in my two cents.

Sir Iceman

Academy Page

Join Date: Aug 2005

Kaos Organized Sykotically

W/Mo

27 Mar 2008 at 19:58 - 1016

I voted to remove the loot scaling. Like others, I voted this way just to stop the constant crying.

I've played this game since the betas and have never had trouble with lack of cash. Gold's drop, gold's don't drop, some days are good, some not. Almost like real life.

The free chests & buried treasure of GW:N wasn't enough to make some people happy.

I fully pimped out Koss with a max dead sword, perfect shield, better looking armor with runes etc.. and still he takes a cut from "MY" drops. Not fair! (^_^)

reetkever

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Dec 2005

Mo/E

27 Mar 2008 at 19:58 - 1017

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

XDDDD

The reason for not removing it is the same for adding it:
- Because people that farm get more cash that those that do not with much less effert, forcing those that do not farm to do so if they want to mach the prices set by an inflated 'economy'.

I beg to differ here. Farming takes quite alot of effort and patience. Farmers work for their cash, so it is only natural that they also get more money than someone that does less.

As for inflated economy, it's BS. Even before LS, prices were going down rapidly already, and the prices that were high had different reasons.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

If 20% of the players get 100k per day and the rest 5k, there is something wrong there.

How's that? People that work get more than people that sit around on a bench all day long. And 100K per day is practically impossible when farming trolls. Unless you farm them for like 10 hours in a row. You make it look like without LS, anyone could become insta-rich.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

With LS, there is not much difference in wow much gold you get unless you dedicate to trade with the items, and by 'wasting time' trading, the extra gold is somehow compensated.

The thing here is that no1 LIKES to trade items in the rotten trading system and market of today. There is basically NO demand for items at this moment, so sellers have an incredibly hard time selling their stuff.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

As I said many times and I repeat now:
Farming is not and never was meant to be the way to get cash. LS never removed the way to get cash from anyone. Since LS only affects farming, there is no reason to remove LS.

Since stuff like FoW armours are in the game, and are obviously out of reach for anyone that just does the storyline, A-Net couldn't have predicted the game without people farming for cash.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

1) I was before LS. The few times I farmed, most of the things that dropped where merchant fodder. When I farm now, I get golds, tomes and other rare items.

It's called HM and it is unaffected by LS. Casual farmers do not farm HM and therefore feel the full effects of the LS. Merchant Fodder is the stuff we need more of. It takes too much time to sell anything to a player with the messed up trade system, and the fact that no1 has money to buy stuff doesn't make it easier. Merchant is your best friend if it comes to making cash.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

2) I'm not rich, I rarely have 100K in storage, no one needs more. And... well... my IQ prevents me from purchasing gold online. You have to be... not very bringht to do so.

100K is more than most people have these days. Alot people that want to truly enjoy this game DO need more. It's no secret that most people in Guild Wars have money issues. Just look in any outpost to see people complaining about money. If you don't need more than 100K, fine. Just don't speak for everyone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

Again, and again, and again. LS does not affect you unless you want to get cash by farming.

So why do you try to oppose the removal of it? If it doesn't affect you, you wouldn't matter if it got removed... If it DID affect you, it would be negative and you would be in favor of the removal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

If you want to remove LS to get more cash by farming, then, you are wasting time asking for it.
LS is only an issue for solo farmers. "Solo" "farmers".
Farming is will not be stopped, but will not be enforced by Anet, either.

LS is an issue for any casual player, since basically everyone farmed back in the Griffon days. It's called casual farming. It's not for the purpose of getting rich, it's for the purpose of having a steady money income to help you with whatever you want to buy in this game. Sure, there are always some people who get lucky drops and don't feel the need to farm, but that doesn't mean that farming isn't needed or wanted by anyone.

MSecorsky

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

So Cal

The Sinister Vanguard

Me/

27 Mar 2008 at 20:02 - 1018

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eldin

I see someone put up a vote - as you can see, LS removal is winning.

Also on topic, I bet everyone who says LS doesn't need to be removed is...
1) Some newbie who doesn't know how epic the pre-LS days were.
2) A goldbuyer who's too rich to care.
3) Some evil 55 monk bot master who's too rich to care.

If you are not from the old days, stop whining about how LS is awesome. It's NOT. To you it may be, but FYI things were a LOT awesomer back before LS. You never experienced it, you have no say in it, LS is of concern to people who were there before it - sure it's nothing to you new people, so this is not your affair. So if you're some 2007 player here to whine about how we're all nubkaekz who want LS removed so we can get rich by doing nothing, please hit Alt+F4 right now.

I am from the "old days". I like Loot-scaling. With the advent of LS and Hard Mode, I don't have to drive to get rich to still be able to afford not only things I need, but a good many things I simply want. The "epic" days you refer to were the days with the greatest separation of wealth between the average player and the hard core farmer ever. Things are floating along at a more even keel now. There are still the rich, of course, but the economy is now catering to the middle-class.

This is as it should be.

Gli

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

27 Mar 2008 at 20:06 - 1019

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sypherious

Who the hell are you to say that I'm opposed to lootscaling?

Wait, what? You yourself signed yourself in 100% agreement with an anti-lootscaling post

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sypherious

I posted it purely to give everyone the info on what it doesn't effect. Don't even think about flaming me.

Yeah, and right after you posted that, you post yourself to be in 100% agreement with someone's anti-lootscaling post. What's a guy to think of that?

MSecorsky

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

So Cal

The Sinister Vanguard

Me/

27 Mar 2008 at 20:07 - 1020

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sypherious

I don't recall every typing that message.

Anyways, I have a question to everyone. Why would you not want LS removed? If you don't farm, it wont' effect you either way. So stop discouraging the removal.

Simple. The influx of added gold will devalue gold, raising prices. This does affect me.

MithranArkanere

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Nov 2006

wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigo

Heraldos de la Llama Oscura [HLO]

E/

27 Mar 2008 at 20:08 - 1021

Quote:

Originally Posted by reetkever

I beg to differ here. Farming takes quite alot of effort and patience. Farmers work for their cash, so it is only natural that they also get more money than someone that does less.

I made myself some builds for special purposes and farming is VERY EASY. Even more if you just use other people's builds, what most people do.

Yeah, no one likes to trade. But that is fixed by adding something like the Xunlai Market, not messing with something that is already fixed. (Yes FI·XED)

IT won't affect me in the part of people getting armors or items from NPCs.

But what if someday, for some reason, I decide that I want a req9 Strength inscribed gold Gothic defender? Should I farm to get 100k+100e they ask for it, or just we leave things how they should be, without LS and with Xunlai Market and pay 10..50k for it, the REAL intended price for something like that?

LS is NOT an issue for any casual player. Because no causal player is required to farm.

No one.

Clinging to old wrong systems and old wrong ways is always a waste of time... a waste of time...

The trading system is to be fixed, adding things like a weapon upgrade trader and a Xunlai Market. Not the drop scale.

There are other possble things to be done, like making customization better, to remove items from the market, or reduce the drop rates of most rare skins...

But removing LS? Nah. Many games came to the same, and similar solutions always worked.

I do not farm, and the only reason that keeps me from buying most Prestige armor sets is that I will have no place to store them once bought. With the exception of the Obsidian set, which I will never buy because its horrible ugly for all professions but Female necromancer, which is not my main character.

Loviatar

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Feb 2005

27 Mar 2008 at 20:25 - 1022

[QUOTE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eldin

I see someone put up a vote - as you can see, LS removal is winning.

how could it possibly lose since this was turned into the hardcore farming/trading site long ago?

Quote:

Also on topic, I bet everyone who says LS doesn't need to be removed is...
1) Some newbie who doesn't know how epic the pre-LS days were.
2) A goldbuyer who's too rich to care.
3) Some evil 55 monk bot master who's too rich to care.

you lose since i was here since early beta and paying 100k+ for anything good sucked

Quote:

If you are not from the old days, stop whining about how LS is awesome. It's NOT. To you it may be, but FYI things were a LOT awesomer back before LS.

any minor rune 3k-7k and MINOR VIGOR 15K+ which made you tons of gold and most casual players do without or save up for a stinking minor vigor......until you could afford 35K-40K for a major vigor.........and forget 75K for a superior and 9 more health.

i was there and 3 cheers for lootscaling which should have been there at the start not added late

Witchblade

Polar Bear Attendant

Join Date: May 2005

27 Mar 2008 at 20:28 - 1023

Dont waste any more keystrokes Loviatar, you're trying to explain this to kiddies who believe LS will be removed if they win this poll

(i'm sure some of em are making multi-accs just to raise the score ^^)

quickmonty

Ancient Windbreaker

Join Date: May 2005

27 Mar 2008 at 20:29 - 1024

My join date on Guru reflects when I started playing GW. Upon starting GW I was poor .... couldn't even afford a full set of Ascalon armor after searing. After playing for a while I started farming and had lots of cash. After LS I still have lots of cash.

Last night I actually had a Superior Absorbtion drop. Imagine my surprise when I found out that the rune trader was selling them for 220g. Used to be that if you found a Sup Abs rune you would dance in the street with joy.

Anyway, I really don't give a rat's posterior about LS one way or the other. I still have plenty of gold. It's just that now I seem to get it by HM missions and vanquishing rather than farming. (old Ettin rune farmer, when runes were worth something)

Now ...... about the cake.

Angelic Upstart

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2006

South Coast UK

[SBS] [RETIRED]

W/E

27 Mar 2008 at 20:30 - 1025

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHannum

So not having played pre-LS makes someone unqualified to comment

Simply put....yes

Witchblade

Polar Bear Attendant

Join Date: May 2005

27 Mar 2008 at 20:31 - 1026

Quote:

Originally Posted by quickmonty

My join date on Guru reflects when I started playing GW. Upon starting GW I was poor .... couldn't even afford a full set of Ascalon armor after searing

Yup like a ranger armor requiring 1k+ per piece and some fur squares if i remember this right

1 up and 2 down

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2007

Rt/

27 Mar 2008 at 20:33 - 1027

Ok, I don't know if this argument has been made and I don't intend on reading through 50 pages to see if it was. So bare with me here.

As we all know Loot Scaling was introduced with the Hard Mode update last April, almost a year ago. So some 2007 players have played without loot scaling and know what it's like and have a say.(This was for Eldin, oh by the way I started playing in the beginning of '06, just to clarify.) So anyways...

I don't think some of the people understand that it isn't as easy as clicking a button and getting rid of loot scaling. I say this because as Hard Mode is now, gold and whites/blues/grapes already have a pretty good drop rate. But if loot scaling were removed then Normal Mode would be back to how it was before Hard mode and loot scaling and Hard mode will just be insane. Drop wise that is. There will be so much new gold going back into the economy It will only hurt it more. IE inflation.(I know thats what some want, but its bad!)

And knowing Anet, they probably know this already. So even if Loot scaling was removed, Anet would have to introduce some new kind of anti-farm code or add some other variant of loot scaling. So we can either have anti farm code whining or everything cost to much whine.

It isn't viable to just take loot scaling away. I think this is a matter of us either accepting loot scaling or waiting to see if the new RMT policy works out. Then coming up with some kind lesser variant of loot scaling. For all we know thats what Anet is doing, waiting to see if the RMT policy works out and then introducing the new lesser variant of loot scaling.

edit: fixed post about gold weapons

MithranArkanere

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Nov 2006

wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigo

Heraldos de la Llama Oscura [HLO]

E/

27 Mar 2008 at 20:36 - 1028

It's something that most people forget. That LS replaced the anti-farm code.

Between those two. I choose LS, since it does not affect full parties or H/H. Only reduced and solo parties.

The more the merrier.

CHannum

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2007

W/E

27 Mar 2008 at 20:38 - 1029

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angelic Upstart

Simply put....yes

I'll be sure to remember that you are, simply put, someone who has nothing of value to say about anything. Welcome to the ignore list. I enjoy learning about metagames, not dealing with asshats who think they are onto something special regarding a game mechanic that's more than a decade old simply by the happenstance that they started GW before me.

reetkever

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Dec 2005

Mo/E

27 Mar 2008 at 20:39 - 1030

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

Simple. The influx of added gold will devalue gold, raising prices. This does affect me.

No. it. won't. Before LS prices went down, too. You know why? Because in Guild Wars, with a constant supply of items that are generated from nothing, all things are doomed to be worth 1 gold in the end. Besides, with HM, more Locked Chests, dungeon rewards and the Zaishen chest, most weapon's prices are beyond saving and are doomed to become worthless forever (Like the Elemental Sword and the Colossal Scimitar).
Of course, if Loot Scaling affected goldies, Colossal Scimitars would still be 100K + 500 ecto's because there would be no supply.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

I made myself some builds for special purposes and farming is VERY EASY. Even more if you just use other people's builds, what most people do.

It's easy, but it's always harder than the tab+space hitting you do in normal missions or quests. Besides, it still takes alot of time for you to become actually rich from farming without the LS.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

Yeah, no one likes to trade. But that is fixed by adding something like the Xunlai Market, not messing with something that is already fixed. (Yes FI·XED)

I don't know what the Xunlai market is, but it's obviously not yet in the game. The market is a mess these days. A player cannot sell anything unless it is UBER rare. And even then, it is worth 10K max. Besides, thanks to loot scaling, people will think twice on what to spend their money on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

IT won't affect me in the part of people getting armors or items from NPCs.
But what if someday, for some reason, I decide that I want a req9 Strength inscribed gold Gothic defender? Should I farm to get 100k+100e they ask for it, or just we leave things how they should be, without LS and with Xunlai Market and pay 10..50k for it, the REAL intended price for something like that?

It's your own choice wether you buy an obviously overpriced item. Only the skins that were actually worth it, were 100K + ecto's prior to the LS. And these are the items that are un-farmable. Today, however, there are WAY more items in the market, and there are WAY more ways of obtaining rare weapons. Asking 100K + ecto's for an easy-to-get-weapon is dumb... And paying 100K + ecto's for that item is even dumber.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

LS is NOT an issue for any casual player. Because no causal player is required to farm.
No one.

Not required, but still most of the population farmed back in the days. Why? Because it's fun and it comes in really handy. Guild Wars is really boring without money, and you can't even play the game to it's fullest without cash. I'm not saying that every Casual Player farmed every hour of every day of their life, but at least they had the chance to WORK for their cash back then.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

Clinging to old wrong systems and old wrong ways is always a waste of time... a waste of time...

If the system was wrong, it would have been fixed a long time before. The reason why LS was added, was because the bots were getting worse, and they had no other options after the Griffon nerf failed totally and just moved the bots from Augury to Droknar.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

There are other possble things to be done, like making customization better, to remove items from the market, or reduce the drop rates of most rare skins...

So basically, you are saying you don't want to pay 100K + ecto's for a shield, but you do want weapons to increase in price?

Shadowspawn X

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2005

Fellowship of Champions

R/E

27 Mar 2008 at 20:43 - 1031

LS is much more just than the anti=farming code, it does a good job of preventing excessive wealth and thus inflation as well. LS is a good thing it protects our economy it should never be removed.

CHannum

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2007

W/E

27 Mar 2008 at 20:46 - 1032

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1 up and 2 down

Then coming up with some kind lesser variant of loot scaling.

The problem with this otherwise reasonable post is that the LS in GW couldn't be any more of a kid gloves approach if they tried and still have it work. Everything other than minor and major runes (and based on their prices at the trader they are doing fine) that anybody might possibly want to exchange money over is already free from LS. The only thing being scaled is gold itself and white/purple items, i.e. merch fodder in 99% of the cases.

The amount of goods for players to find as drops and/or trade for money is as high or higher than it ever was. The only thing LS does is make sure the amount of gold per player is more even relative to time played, and even there it still let's solo farmers make about double what a group player does in the same area.

It's already a very gentle implementation and likely couldn't be made gentler without implementing some sort of AFC and remain fair.

MithranArkanere

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Nov 2006

wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigo

Heraldos de la Llama Oscura [HLO]

E/

27 Mar 2008 at 20:48 - 1033

Quote:

Originally Posted by reetkever

So basically, you are saying you don't want to pay 100K + ecto's for a shield, but you do want weapons to increase in price?

XDDDDD What a bad try! Seriously.

There was approaches to fix the system. One of them was the anti-farm code.
It was removed since LS was WAY better than it, and thus, replaced it.
Just remember that sometimes the solution for a problem, even know, can take a lot of time to be put in practice.

XDDDD Increase in price of weapons? XDDD No!
I'm saying that I do not want GOLD to decrease in price. So I won't need to farm to buy something from other player.
If you make farming work again fully, like it worked before the antifarm code, you will end up with less people having more gold. Ad thus, the value of the gold decrease, because those with more gold 'decide' the prices, being able to acquire more than others.

You don't have to bother about it. Justs keep in mind the basics. Things like:
- Farming not required to get things.
- Prices not decided by a minority of farmers.
- Parties of 8 people more effective to et wealth than solo players.
- Rare items not affected.
- PlayerToPlayer trades with reasonable prices.

And so on.

Increasing the value of identified items while reducing the values of non-identified ones would work WAY better for what you 'claim' to ask, instead removing LS.
But of course, that is not what you want.
Just removing LS means: Take those that do not farm out of the picture.
Nothing else.

1 up and 2 down

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2007

Rt/

27 Mar 2008 at 20:49 - 1034

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHannum

The problem with this otherwise reasonable post is that the LS in GW couldn't be any more of a kid gloves approach if they tried and still have it work. Everything other than minor and major runes (and based on their prices at the trader they are doing fine) that anybody might possibly want to exchange money over is already free from LS. The only thing being scaled is gold itself and white/purple items, i.e. merch fodder in 99% of the cases.

The amount of goods for players to find as drops and/or trade for money is as high or higher than it ever was. The only thing LS does is make sure the amount of gold per player is more even relative to time played, and even there it still let's solo farmers make about double what a group player does in the same area.

It's already a very gentle implementation and likely couldn't be made gentler without implementing some sort of AFC and remain fair.

/doh! Forgot golds weren't scaled....

Better edit my post before I am attacked.

Yeah but you are right. It really can't made and less if you think about it.

Sypherious

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Sep 2007

It's Over Nine Thousaaaaand

Mo/E

27 Mar 2008 at 20:51 - 1035

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

Wait, what? You yourself signed yourself in 100% agreement with an anti-lootscaling post

Yeah, and right after you posted that, you post yourself to be in 100% agreement with someone's anti-lootscaling post. What's a guy to think of that?

Are you a little bit stupid? You obviously misread alot of things, young lad. I want lootscaling to be removed. End of story.

Sypherious

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Sep 2007

It's Over Nine Thousaaaaand

Mo/E

27 Mar 2008 at 20:58 - 1036

Quote:

Originally Posted by Witchblade

Dont waste any more keystrokes Loviatar, you're trying to explain this to kiddies who believe LS will be removed if they win this poll

(i'm sure some of em are making multi-accs just to raise the score ^^)

Say it does get removed, how are you going to defend yourself then, huh?

MSecorsky

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

So Cal

The Sinister Vanguard

Me/

27 Mar 2008 at 21:03 - 1037

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sypherious

Say it does get removed, how are you going to defend yourself then, huh?

If it did (gods forbid...) it wouldn't be because of this silly thread.

CHannum

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2007

W/E

27 Mar 2008 at 21:08 - 1038

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sypherious

Say it does get removed, how are you going to defend yourself then, huh?

Why would we need to defend ourselves? It's not like all the reasons for keeping LS in the game will suddenly stop being true just because Anet opted to please a vocal minority.

If they do remove it, I'll keep on playing the game unless they do something even more stupid and raise NPC prices to compensate for the alleged increased income I'll not be making since I don't farm. So long as they don't do something that stupid, all that will result is that I'll never bother to check out the trade offers in a town again since the prices will reflect a farm based gold economy in which I'll not be able to compete without also putting in my time solo farming for even more excess cash.

Eventually, the farmers will only be trading with other farmers and, although they'll have the warm satisfied glow of making five to ten times as much per item as they were today, they'll hopefully soon realise that their purchasing power is actually the same or less. The only silver lining is that those who are obsessed with filling their HOMs will finish that much sooner and leave the game

Gli

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

27 Mar 2008 at 21:10 - 1039

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sypherious

Are you a little bit stupid? You obviously misread alot of things, young lad. I want lootscaling to be removed. End of story.

Hahaha, you're calling me stupid? None of your posts make any sense at all.

First you post in support of the removal of lootscaling, then you challenge me for saying I think you're opposed to lootscaling, and now you're posting in support of the removal of lootscaling again?

Flip

Flop

Flip

Flop

MithranArkanere

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Nov 2006

wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigo

Heraldos de la Llama Oscura [HLO]

E/

27 Mar 2008 at 21:13 - 1040

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sypherious

Say it does get removed, how are you going to defend yourself then, huh?

That would be somehow... weird... every time I suport something it gets done (no, really, coincidences stalk me)

For example, just before Nightfall, our Guild left an alliance whose leader argued with me that Anet would NEVER add a system to change the inherent variable modifiers in weapons I suggested more than once. He even claimed that he would leave the game if something like that happened. XDDD
When Nightfall was added, I wished I could remember his name to whisper him a "Ha-Ha!" when I saw inscriptions. XDDDD

In this case, I see only possible reason for LS removal: Changing it for another system to prevent huge solo wealth increase... but... LS works quite well enough. Why to change it for anything else?
Unless coincidences stop stalking me (I went to around 6 today, XD) I doubt then LS being removed anytime soon.

Anyways, I'm not 'fighting' to prevent LS removal. I'm just trying to explain you why is it here and why are you naively wasting your time asking for its removal.

More than being against the idea, I just know that it will never happen the way you ask for it, just like with 7 heroes, XDDDD.