Definitive 'best' PvE Sin discussion

those IAS's stack?? omgwtf nerf sins!!!11!!111!! Now imagine what would happen if someone doesn't have Nightfall.

OLOLOLO CR(IT AGI ISNT TEH ONLU ONE IAS ASSASSASSASSIN CAN USE!!!1

Even in the worst of cases, a Blossom spammer can retry in 2 seconds. No biggie. And miss again. And have Moebius miss too. And then crit defense and agility drop before recharge because you can't hit for crits.

OR

Take a shattersin build, which can hit anything regardless of stance or enchants, does very high single target damage, destroys all defenses on the opponent, and repeat every 4 seconds.

So you're saying the choice is between continual misses with Moebius-DB every 2 seconds, or solid hits and defense removal every 4 seconds. Hmmm...

Of course, the argument becomes moot against opponents like target dummies that don't defend or anything, but against even PvE enemies who use defensive enchants and stances, a shattersin just blasts through them.

But its like any other profession, you have to adapt the build to the area you're in, if you know you'll be facing mobs that don't regularly use enchants or stances for protection, then yes, a Moebius-DB is better. If, on the other hand, you know you'll be facing kournan bowmen backed up by aegis spamming healers, then rather than take it in the face because you stubbornly refuse to play anything but Moebius-DB, you take shattersin and mow them down.

The nice thing too is that a shattersin can, every 4 seconds completely wreck an opponent, then move on to the next, quickly and efficiently destroying defense after defense with quick unblockable attacks. Rather than having your casters worry about disenchanting multiple enemies, the shattersin can do that while doing impressive damage, so the casters can focus more on damage mitigation or nuking.

Just recognize that playing Moebius-DB isn't the ONLY way to play a sin, and in many ways is inefficient in various areas. The numbers look good when you do hit, but that's not always a guarantee...

stuff you seem to be ignoring the fact that other characters can do this sort of thing from a much safer position. With the exception of maybe h/h'ing Asura areas (because of raptors), [moebius strike] is much more useful than [Shattering Assault].

As a reminder: [skill]Critical Defenses[/skill] is not the only defensive enchant in the game, ever think about, oh say [skill]Protective Spirit[/skill] or [skill]Shield of Absorption[/skill] or [skill]Shield of Deflection[/skill] or [skill]Shield of Regeneration[/skill]? lolz @ teh Pee Vee Ee leetness

...or, notsomuch.

btw

+1

Right, because Hero AI is so advanced that they are more than capable of removing any enchantment as soon as it comes up, what could I have been thinking.

Oh, I see, the player is supposed to micromanage all the heroes' skills on every single target. How fun.

Did you ever think that perhaps the reason people play with other builds is because it suits their playstyle, or because the convenience of point-and-click and NOT whiff is more fun than having the screen filled with hero bars and frantic clicking all over the place? Or perhaps you're just too stubborn/stupid to realize that not everyone shares your opinion that Moebius-DB is the only way to play? Or that your opinion is just that, opinion, and far from fact?

As a reminder: [skill]Critical Defenses[/skill] is not the only defensive enchant in the game, ever think about, oh say [skill]Protective Spirit[/skill] or [skill]Shield of Absorption[/skill] or [skill]Shield of Deflection[/skill] or [skill]Shield of Regeneration[/skill]? Considering a Blossom Spammer's DPS will be blocked or healed... I guess I must be too stubborn/stupid to realize your wisdom, my bad. oooh so your Assassin has Prot Spirit/SoA/SoD/SoR in his build?
you need some sort of self survivability and Critical Agility+Critical Defenses is just the best combo for Sins...

as for the rest, you have heroes for a reason... use them PROPERLY!!!

oooh so your Assassin has Prot Spirit/SoA/SoD/SoR in his build?
you need some sort of self survivability and Critical Agility+Critical Defenses is just the best combo for Sins...

as for the rest, you have heroes for a reason... use them PROPERLY!!! Might want to learn to read first, those are enchants a sin has to deal with on enemies, which a shattersin breaks, while a Moebius+DB build does not. I thought that was painfully, glaringly obvious? Guess not.

Raptor Farming... a discussion best had elsewhere (the build is truly degenerate). If you're in a party just vanquishing for the hell of it, better to have someone else take Rip or Corrupt and happily keep Blossoming. No one mentioned Raptor farming. Also Shattering Assault (correct me if I'm wrong) has a much shorter recharge than most other forms of enchantment removal. Hit Raptor with chain, switch to next Raptor, hit with chain, switch target, etc.

MS/DB is strong, there's no doubt about that, but it's not appropiate everywhere.

Ironically, I too use a Moebius-DB build, but I've actually had more fun and enjoyment with a shadow stepping AP build, as well as the shattersin build for the sheer enjoyment of not having to rely on h/h or other players to make sure my sin can do his job. I've been having more fun, and been far more effective, with a Critical Barrage build. Nowhere near the front line when I can help it (any reduction in damage-dealing efficiency compared to the standard DB/MS combo is more than made up for by the fact that I don't get squished by Jotuns and such while I'm trying to get the combo off), deals lots of damage against groups (especially in Factions, where they seem to clump up a lot more than Proph/EotN), lots of bleeding against fleshies, no worries about broken chains, and few energy problems.

[Barrage][Distracting Shot][Sharpen Daggers][Critical Eye][Way of the Master][Critical Defenses][Heart of Shadow][Antidote Signet]

13 Critical Strikes, 12 Marksmanship and 3+ Shadow Arts (how much more depends on if you rune in a way to save a 20 point block, of course) and a Zealous bow of some sort (love my Ironwing Flatbow I just got today after Shiro). Can replace [[Heart of Shadow] with [[Viper's Defense] if you prefer to punish the relatively rare swarmings (or charge into the middle of a group, activate, then Barrage against that group to stack the degen), or maybe [[Shadow Refuge] for more reliable healing. Of course, if you have Nightfall, dump the shadow step for [[Critical Agility] (I find keeping the [[Antidote Signet]'s vital - Blindness sucks).

Doing a lot better with this build than my Barraging Ranger has ever been able to do.

^needs more critical agility

anyway in pve Moebius>Shattering

for the very simple reason of DPS as for your arguements of enchants...just switch targets as monsters are to retarded to re prot your new target right away. Also Shattering assault has abosutley shitty damage vrs high al targets so your limited to squishes which is baed in pve. Somewhat incorrect. [skill]Death Blossom[/skill]'s AoE damage IIRC is armor ignoring, so yes, when you're mobbed as a sin, DB does very good damage.

However, the added damage on the actual target is higher on [skill]Shattering Assault[/skill] than DB. So in situations where its imperative to take out single targets SA may be better.

The other thing to consider is [skill]Moebius Strike[/skill] only recharges on <50% health, on high health enemies (such as bosses or in HM) this can take some time, which allows monks to re-prot with protective or healing enchants. There's nothing more annoying than being in an aggro with a couple of dolyak herders casting multiple [skill]Mark of Protection[/skill] around, especially on boss types. In cases like that, you can MS+DB til the cows come home, but it seems to take forever. With SA, you remove it instantly and four seconds later remove any more (remember, its a dual attack so two enchants removed per instance).

Point is, MS+DB is great in situations where multiple melee mobs are likely, that do not possess any blocking or blind (including blurred vision). However, is higher end PvE, where protections of all sorts are quite common, SA may be better simply because its a 4 second recharge unblockable dual enchant remover, which I'm pretty sure beats out any other enchant removal in spades. Not to mention the added damage as well.

Both camps have their unique advantages, I'd say a shattersin is more versatile in more situations, making the entire party more efficient in killing, whereas a MS+DB sin has the advantage in DPS but depends heavily on support from the group plus being mobbed, which is not a great situation to be in with low armor anyways. Pretty sure most groups would appreciate a shattersin running around busting monk enchants like [skill]Aegis[/skill] and [skill]Shield of Absorption[/skill] every four seconds, as opposed to depending on [skill]Rip Enchantment[/skill] which is only 1 enchant every ten seconds and gives them Bleeding yay!

...snip
However, the added damage on the actual target is higher on [skill]Shattering Assault[/skill] than DB. So in situations where its imperative to take out single targets SA may be better. Just to expand on this for those who are unaware, [skill]Shattering Assault[/skill] damage is considered base, so it IS effected by mods like 15^50 and affected by critical hit damage modifiers which the bonus damage on [skill]Death Blossom[/skill] is not. This also means the damage is affected by armor, so naturally warriors and paragons will take less damage from it. But i've seen an SS with a double crit SA hitting for 99 and 140 damage. The target also had armor reducing hexes.

As much as [skill]Moebius Strike[/skill] and [skill]Death Blossom[/skill] go hand in hand, so does [skill]Golden Fox Strike[/skill], [skill]Wild Strike[/skill], and [skill]Shattering Assault[/skill] do go together also. With MS DB, usually [skill]Golden Phoenix Strike[/skill] and [skill]Critical Strike[/skill] are included, but is also prone to be affected more by target switching and attacks missing much more than the Shattering Chain.

Of course, some problems with the Moebius Chain can be fixed by going:

[skill]Golden Fox Strike[/skill][skill]Wild Strike[/skill][skill]Critical Strike[/skill][skill]Moebius Strike[/skill][skill]Death Blossom[/skill] But that doesn't seem to be a popular choice.

For a while i used

[skill]Wild Blow[/skill][skill]Golden Phoenix Strike[/skill][skill]Critical Strike[/skill][skill]Moebius Strike[/skill][skill]Death Blossom[/skill] But that doesn't seem to go well burning adrenaline for [skill]Save Yourselves[/skill]