[skill]twisting fangs[/skill]: a good skill both in PvE and PvP. If it's just for the DW I'd rather have [skill]impale[/skill] or get funky with [skill]finish him[/skill] since repeated Twisting isn't nice for your blue bar (and not hella useful either).
EDIT: outninja'd by Unreal
Indeed!
I'd rather take Golden Fang Strike myself to get Deep Wound on my target quicker and for much more efficient spamming of Deep Wound if the target dies quicker than you manage to pull off your chain (which really just depends on where you are using the build).
Personally though in lower level areas I just run this:
Good discussion by the way, nice to see some people here can actually hold a civil debate.
Bobby2
Furnace Stoker
Join Date: Jun 2007
Delayed in order to meet ANet's high standards
[MaSS]
W/E
14 May 2008 at 17:36 - 123
Got ya. 2 points:
1: Gotta love the stance ender (yes, that's utility in my book)
2: NO Deep Wound application results in your target living longer. Then: is this a bad thing when it means you can get a couple more Blossoms in?
Unreal Havoc
Guest
Join Date: Dec 2007
14 May 2008 at 17:47 - 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby2
Got ya. 2 points:
1: Gotta love the stance ender (yes, that's utility in my book)
Definitely, but only in areas that you need it, otherwise its a waste of utility that could be used for something else.
Quote:
2: NO Deep Wound application results in your target living longer. Then: is this a bad thing when it means you can get a couple more Blossoms in?
Depends on the purpose of the build, if you want to stack loads of AoE on multiple targets it could be preferable to actually not pack Deep Wound. It really does depend on your team setup aswell. You could (just as an example) just use the Solo Farmer variant and tank a mob spamming MS/DB (as you do to solo farm only with a Monk to cover your enchants and protect you) while the rest of your party deals massive AoE from Nukers and Splinter Weapon cast on you etc.
The possibilities are endless and its stuff like this that really shows the strength of MS/DB spamming as it can be used in so many ways due to its versatility.
petrorabbit
Frost Gate Guardian
Join Date: Oct 2007
14 May 2008 at 17:50 - 125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc
Good discussion by the way, nice to see some people here can actually hold a civil debate.
troll troll flame flame!!!
J/k,
Indeed, not everyone is still an adolescent.
With all this new info brought on by the shattersin discussion, i think we need a build update from the earlier part of this thread probably including GFS and WS.
And Bobby, since you started this thread, i think you should keep the build updated on the first page keeping the histories so the people reading this can see how the build evolved from the first page.
Super Igor
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2008
why should you kno? Oo
A/W
14 May 2008 at 17:50 - 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc
But here's the main point. MS/DB maintains Save Yourselves spamming AoE double striking and doing a load of damage to go on top of it. There's little point in taking an Assassin that doesn't kill stuff. Shattering Assault does not make things explode like MS/DB does, it's a utility build to setup targets for other classes to take care of the targets stripped defenses. Unless you really NEED enchantment removal, that your support proffessions can't take care of, there really is little reason to run a Shattering Assault Assassin over MS/DB in PvE, especially to maintain Save Yourselves due to your double strike rate in building up adrenaline compared to Shattering Assault.
If...we are talking about mantaining [save yourselves!] on the team I will agree about MS/DB doing better job with it especially when the actual MS/DB spam starts to go. For [save yourselves!] spamming Shattersin is not as good because the build doesnt spam atacks constantly, it does the job good anyway because daggers are good for building up addrenaline.
I also agree that unless you are going into an area were you would need a lot of enchantment removal like in Norn Areas, Post-sear Ascalon, Shiverpeaks, Maguuma Jungle, various areas with Mandragors in Elona, Asuran Areas with raptors etc. were you are coming against mobs with most annoying enchies out there you dont need to tke Shgatersin over MS/DB, but taking a Shattersin bars in the areas mentioned above helps a lot, making your life much easyer to go through them. Dont say that those areas are rare, you can see that they are not.
If you would need a bit of AoE damage as a Shattersin you can put Death Blossom into the bar and use it after all the enchies are removed or if there arent any of them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc
In PvE you will rarely need anything else other than MS/DB dual attack wise. However the most common builds that run two dual attacks swap Critcal Eye for Critical Strike which provides refreshment for your enchantments and critical hits and energy management on demand on top of doing critical damage. You can also run Golden Phoenix Strike and skip your lead for an extra utility slot. Blocking enchantments and stances aren't a major issue because you should be targeting casters in most areas anyway. However the main point here is that the MS/DB build is flexible and can be changed to suit just about any foe you face and still maintain a solid DPS rate compared to using Shattering Assault which in comparison has poor DPS.
Honestly, when you are spamming MS/Death Blossom - spam it and not anything else, any extra duals are just not needed and distract you from your main job, I dont even see any point in high costing [twisting fangs] to be honest unless we are talking about taking down some lonely mob a little bit faster I will consider using [death blossom] to chop hp off mobs around my target and killing them faster and faster or just killing them all at once (depends on luck and what heroes are in play) rather then killng one foes fast with twisting without harming others much.
As for [Golden Phoenix Strike] I DEFO prefer to use it, really great and cheap way to bash things with [death blossom] right away without a formal introduction with Lead>Offhand.
If we are talking about removing pesky stances using wild strike - no thanks, [wild blow] is a better choice to take if you know that you are going against such things, It can be used without interrupting the chain is the mob enters a block stance while you are in the progress of MS/DB spam already, it is also a 100% critical hit which proves to be very very usefull when your [critical agility] is about to end and is not recharged yet while you are enterring a fight against a mob, it can happen, and having something to autocrit and keep you enchie is good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc
The builds I showed with Twisting Fangs in were just example builds to show how flexible MS/DB can be, it's main advantage is that you can keep up the double strike hit rate. Unless you need a second dual attack to serve a specific purpose there's no point in wasting utility for it. What skills you take with a MS/DB build depend largely on the area you are heading into, and with good forward planning you can use MS/DB on almost anything in the game.
Not sure, Shattersin is very usefull in a lot of areas.
[twisting fangs] is kind of meh...take [finish him!] if you need a finishing blow.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc
That depends on if you want utility or if you want to actually kill stuff.
No wai true, you can take [Assassin's Remedy] with MS/DB and still kill stuff noprobs.
And [save yourselves] is instant activation.
Super Igor
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2008
why should you kno? Oo
A/W
14 May 2008 at 17:55 - 127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc
Good discussion by the way, nice to see some people here can actually hold a civil debate.
Not PvXwiki for you Unreal.
Also, outninja'd by everyone.
petrorabbit
Frost Gate Guardian
Join Date: Oct 2007
14 May 2008 at 18:00 - 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Igor
...snip
If we are talking about removing pesky stances using wild strike - no thanks, [wild blow] is a better choice to take if you know that you are going against such things, It can be used without interrupting the chain is the mob enters a block stance while you are in the progress of MS/DB spam already, it is also a 100% critical hit which proves to be very very usefull when your [critical agility] is about to end and is not recharged yet while you are enterring a fight against a mob, it can happen, and having something to autocrit and keep you enchie is good.
In my experience with [Wild Blow] and [Save Yourselves], I found the adrenaline loss can really throw a wrench in your SY cycle. Although there are ways to manage it, I wouldn't recommend it to someone learning the build.
Unreal Havoc
Guest
Join Date: Dec 2007
14 May 2008 at 18:03 - 129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Igor
If you would need a bit of AoE damage as a Shattersin you can put Death Blossom into the bar and use it after all the enchies are removed or if there arent any of them.
Just wasting utility, how about just take both a Shattering Assault sin and a MS/DB spammer in the same party? That way you get the full extent of both builds extreme capabilities.
Quote:
Honestly, when you are spamming MS/Death Blossom - spam it and not anything else, any extra duals are just not needed and distract you from your main job, I dont even see any point in high costing [twisting fangs] to be honest unless we are talking about taking down some lonely mob a little bit faster I will consider using [death blossom] to chop hp off mobs around my target and killing them faster and faster or just killing them all at once (depends on luck and what heroes are in play) rather then killng one foes fast with twisting without harming others much.
Examples Igor, examples.
Quote:
As for [Golden Phoenix Strike] I DEFO prefer to use it, really great and cheap way to bash things with [death blossom] right away without a formal introduction with Lead>Offhand.
Agreed but then you also lose Deep Wound unless you take Impale or Twisting Fangs. Never underestimate the abilty to temporarily lower your targets health and healing percentage, not even in PvE.
Quote:
If we are talking about removing pesky stances using wild strike - no thanks, [wild blow] is a better choice to take if you know that you are going against such things, It can be used without interrupting the chain is the mob enters a block stance while you are in the progress of MS/DB spam already, it is also a 100% critical hit which proves to be very very usefull when your [critical agility] is about to end and is not recharged yet while you are enterring a fight against a mob, it can happen, and having something to autocrit and keep you enchie is good.
/Agree. Can't believe I forgot about this sweet skill actually. But its a pain to maintain Save Yourselves with due to it causing you to lose all adrenaline. Good if you're not maintaining Save Yourselves though.
Quote:
Not sure, Shattersin is very usefull in a lot of areas.
No one is saying its not useful.
Quote:
[twisting fangs] is kind of meh...take [finish him!] if you need a finishing blow.
Twisting Fangs = Dual Attack skill IE: Double Strike = energy management if you critical. Correct me if I'm wrong but MS/DB doesn't recharge Finsh Him either with it being a Shout.
Quote:
No wai true, you can take [Assassin's Remedy] with MS/DB and still kill stuff noprobs.
And [save yourselves] is instant activation.
I do believe these are already established? o.O
Unreal Havoc
Guest
Join Date: Dec 2007
14 May 2008 at 18:11 - 130
Think right now I'll just drop what I already said earlier in the thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc
There is no right or wrong, it depends on who you go with, what they're running, and what you aim to achieve with your build.
Fitting words for the debate? No?
Super Igor
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2008
why should you kno? Oo
A/W
14 May 2008 at 18:24 - 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc
Just wasting utility, how about just take both a Shattering Assault sin and a MS/DB spammer in the same party? That way you get the full extent of both builds extreme capabilities.
Would be fantastic in the areas I have mentioned Shattersin to be very usefull, but generally two MS/DB sins, one with stance removal another with [golden phoenix strike] for teh fastness of using [death blossom] and [twisting fangs] as an extra dual and killing power if you want would be much better.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc
Agreed but then you also lose Deep Wound unless you take Impale or Twisting Fangs. Never underestimate the abilty to temporarily lower your targets health and healing percentage, not even in PvE.
Sometimes you dont really need dw.....things die very fast anyway and the more you atack your target, the less hp mobs around it have till...well everything dies.
Sometimes it is very fun to take hold of a mob and bash the target with highest hp like warrior or a boss till basically all around it and it too dies, dw would lower the health of that target and you wont be able to do the trick as good, but thats theorycrafting basically.
I rarely take dw (except for [finish him!]) because it wastes a slot and an action, actually this makes [finish him!] great to use because you can use it while in precess of using an atack skill, same goes for [you move like a dwarf!].
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc
/Agree. Can't believe I forgot about this sweet skill actually. But its a pain to maintain Save Yourselves with due to it causing you to lose all adrenaline. Good if you're not maintaining Save Yourselves though.
I dont use [save yourselves!] all the time especially if i am going against mobs who use blockin stances a lot, I like wild blow.
If you have taken the shout though dont take wild, but my heroes usually do fine without the shout tbh.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc
No one is saying its not useful.
Mudkipz do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc
Twisting Fangs = Dual Attack skill IE: Double Strike = energy management if you critical. Correct me if I'm wrong but MS/DB doesn't recharge Finsh Him either with it being a Shout.
Not much energy mangement froma 10 energy skill, bad on blue bar still and not rly needed as things die fast anyway.
[Finish Him!] is good because you can use it in th moiddle of using an atack skill which is good, also it looks cool when you shout.
Unreal Havoc
Guest
Join Date: Dec 2007
14 May 2008 at 18:37 - 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Igor
Not much energy mangement froma 10 energy skill, bad on blue bar still and not rly needed as things die fast anyway.
[Finish Him!] is good because you can use it in th moiddle of using an atack skill which is good, also it looks cool when you shout.
Skipped the rest because its all more just about opinion.
This however makes me lol, even from you Igor of all people.
You don't get any energy management from using a shout, but you have the chance to get 8-10 energy back from using Twisting Fangs (critical strikes 3 + critical eye 1 +zealous 1 x 2 from double striking) which can cover the cost of the skill. The shout is pointless because as already said it isn't renewed by Moebius Strike as it isn't an attack skill and you cannot get any energy whatsoever by achieveing a critical hit (or even landing a hit with zealous daggers) full stop. There is just no point running it on the bar over Twisting Fangs with those points in mind.
What I do like about it is unblockability seems it doesn't require landing a hit, but I'd rather land the hit with Twisting Fangs to be honest and be able to spam it as often as its available by recharging it with Moebius Strike. Would most likely function better on the Shattering Assault skill bar.
Super Igor
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2008
why should you kno? Oo
A/W
15 May 2008 at 13:24 - 133
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc
Skipped the rest because its all more just about opinion.
This however makes me lol, even from you Igor of all people.
You don't get any energy management from using a shout, but you have the chance to get 8-10 energy back from using Twisting Fangs (critical strikes 3 + critical eye 1 +zealous 1 x 2 from double striking) which can cover the cost of the skill. The shout is pointless because as already said it isn't renewed by Moebius Strike as it isn't an attack skill and you cannot get any energy whatsoever by achieveing a critical hit (or even landing a hit with zealous daggers) full stop. There is just no point running it on the bar over Twisting Fangs with those points in mind.
I dont like twisting, yeah it is rechrged by moebius...can cover its cost bla bla bla, still, I would rather spam DB more often and have an extremely powerfull finishing blow skill to finish off foes.
I dont need any more energy management then I already have, I dont need my dw to replenish its own energy cost, I never have energy problems anyway, I dont want to sacrifice a chance to chop 90 damage off everything around me to apply dw....[finish him] can be used in the middle of doing something, its damage is armor ignoring and the activation is instant, so it is good, I will only need to use such skill a maximum of two times in battle anyway because most of the things get killed from aoe, minions, iv, putrid bile etc. [twisting fangs] is blockable too, it is not armor ignoring so damage you deal with it usually wont exceed 60....yeah. [finish him] is unblockable...instant...armor ignoring so it is very good to use if you need such things.
Unreal, seriously, you are underestimating the power of [finish him] it is an extremely powerfull skill. Dont bother with things like extra energy management if you have plenty of it anyway.
Im not telling you that [twisting fangs] is bad.....no.....but it can not be called highly superior to any other way to apply dw to things in PvE.
Generally dw is not a holy grail to have, spammable dw is not, it may help...but usually things die fast without it or you dont need to use it too often...it is simple as that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc
What I do like about it is unblockability seems it doesn't require landing a hit, but I'd rather land the hit with Twisting Fangs to be honest and be able to spam it as often as its available by recharging it with Moebius Strike. Would most likely function better on the Shattering Assault skill bar.
About Shattering Assault, I am saying again that it is much....much helpfull in the areas that i have mentioned to you it is highly helpfull and can even stand between your party being wiped from the pressure some mobs can apply while being hard to kill because of the axcess of pretective enchies.
If you are such a fanbow of dw take [golden fang strike] in the shattersin bar to dw things after they are defenceless or just use it if you know the cant block.
You dont need to spam dw, you need to finish things off mostly, finish them off fastly, you dont need it as often though, sheer damage is anough in most areas.
Taking dw is like taking a Shattersin bar, it is not 100% needed, but it can prove very helpfull in certain areas.....
Bobby2
Furnace Stoker
Join Date: Jun 2007
Delayed in order to meet ANet's high standards
[MaSS]
W/E
15 May 2008 at 14:14 - 134
...good show Igor.
To add to Unreal's remark about [skill]finish him[/skill] fitting better on a Shattersin bar: Yes.
Cracked Armour doesn't normally effect damage output to a large degree since bonus damage is armor-ignoring...
...except with [skill]shattering assault[/skill]. Suddenly, stuff like customizing and having a 15^X inscrip starts to matter (in a fit of madness even included [skill]shadowy burden[/skill] for lulz).
Considering the fact one can only bring 3 PvE skills, coupled with Unreal's points above, I doubt many people will spend a PvE slot on a Deep Wound if not for coolness alone.
petrorabbit
Frost Gate Guardian
Join Date: Oct 2007
15 May 2008 at 14:38 - 135
^ Actually, customization doesn't affect SA's Damage. Since SA's damage is considered base, it will get more benefit from 15^X inscriptions adding slightly more damage. It would be nice if it was fixed to add customization damage too. But of course, pvp'ers will cry nerf.
Bobby2
Furnace Stoker
Join Date: Jun 2007
Delayed in order to meet ANet's high standards
[MaSS]
W/E
15 May 2008 at 15:39 - 136
<--- pwnt
(still, customize!)
Super Igor
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2008
why should you kno? Oo
A/W
15 May 2008 at 16:14 - 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby2
To add to Unreal's remark about [skill]finish him[/skill] fitting better on a Shattersin bar: Yes.
Were? Oo
I personally thought Unreal gave the skill an overall bashing.
Anyway, I still thing [finish him] is a powerful skill and can fit assassin bar no problem if you want, especially on a Shattersin though golden fang strike could be good for it too.
About the PvE skill slot I dont know, you can not have one if you put [twisting fangs] on the bar anyway, because there just wont be a free slot on the bar.
Cracked armor helps, dw is good, 80 armor ignoring damage is good. I like [finish him].
Generally there is a question of if it is worwhile to take dw in general? Can kill stuff without it no problem anyway.
Unreal Havoc
Guest
Join Date: Dec 2007
15 May 2008 at 16:19 - 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Igor
I personally thought Unreal gave the skill an overall bashing.
No, just my opinion about what would in general work better overall. The skill is a good one but not one that would see use on my MS/DB bar for reasons I have, and have yet to, outline.
Quote:
I dont like twisting, yeah it is rechrged by moebius...can cover its cost bla bla bla, still, I would rather spam DB more often and have an extremely powerfull finishing blow skill to finish off foes.
Yet you have a finishing blow that takes 15 seconds to recharge and is not covered by energy management from critical strikes or the recharge from Moebius Strike? It doesn't matter if you have energy management or not (which takes another slot) you could quite easily just take a skill that synergises with the rest of your bar and allows you to regain energy from so that you dont need that energy management as much.
Quote:
I dont need any more energy management then I already have, I dont need my dw to replenish its own energy cost, I never have energy problems anyway, I dont want to sacrifice a chance to chop 90 damage off everything around me to apply dw....[finish him] can be used in the middle of doing something, its damage is armor ignoring and the activation is instant, so it is good, I will only need to use such skill a maximum of two times in battle anyway because most of the things get killed from aoe, minions, iv, putrid bile etc. [twisting fangs] is blockable too, it is not armor ignoring so damage you deal with it usually wont exceed 60....yeah. [finish him] is unblockable...instant...armor ignoring so it is very good to use if you need such things.
Unreal, seriously, you are underestimating the power of [finish him] it is an extremely powerfull skill. Dont bother with things like extra energy management if you have plenty of it anyway.
Wrong, I know fully well the skills capabilites, but I'd much rather spam Deep Wound on multiple targets making the killing process much much quicker. Deep Wound is a huge chunk off your targets health that stays off (unless removed) and reduces the amount of healing the target recieves.
Quote:
Im not telling you that [twisting fangs] is bad.....no.....but it can not be called highly superior to any other way to apply dw to things in PvE.
Generally dw is not a holy grail to have, spammable dw is not, it may help...but usually things die fast without it or you dont need to use it too often...it is simple as that.
Yet you praise Finsh Him to the ground and run it on your bar? o.O Kind of contradictory there Igor.
Quote:
About Shattering Assault, I am saying again that it is much....much helpfull in the areas that i have mentioned to you it is highly helpfull and can even stand between your party being wiped from the pressure some mobs can apply while being hard to kill because of the axcess of pretective enchies.
Why are we still going on about this when we established this already?
Quote:
If you are such a fanbow of dw take [golden fang strike] in the shattersin bar to dw things after they are defenceless or just use it if you know the cant block.
No need to get rude or personal Igor over someones opinion. As for GFS on a Shattersin bar, well now you're taking away the whole point of taking a Shattersin, bypassing blocking enchantments and stances, not going to do that if you cant hit your dual. Better of making the whole bar unblockable including the Deep Wound.
For the record I run GFS on my MS/DB bar. It makes stuff explode and die, lots!
Quote:
You dont need to spam dw, you need to finish things off mostly, finish them off fastly, you dont need it as often though, sheer damage is anough in most areas.
Deep Wound does tremendous damage to a target and assists the party in taking down your enemies. It is a great way to quickly take down a targest health, and even better if used on a Fevered Dreams Sin for example to inflict Deep Wound on an entire mob.
Quote:
Taking dw is like taking a Shattersin bar, it is not 100% needed, but it can prove very helpfull in certain areas.....
Personally I find spamming Deep Wound proves helpful in all areas.
Quote:
Cracked armor helps, dw is good, 80 armor ignoring damage is good. I like [finish him].
Cracked armour is pointless against casters (which you should be targeting mainly with you lovely high DPS rate) because it doesn't reduce base armour level to less than 60 (correct me if I'm wrong). Even more so in areas where your faced with heavy caster mobs.
Finsh Him would generally imo be better suited to the Shattersin to maintain full unblockability with the Deep Wound (which is the whole point of taking the Shattersin), and give it a much needed damage boost on demand so that you don't have to pull off your whole chain with the Shattersin to get to Impale, or even a casters bar as they don't need to get into melee range with it to inflict Deep Wound. Take TF or GFS on the MS/DB sin dependant on the rest of your chain.
Lastly in regards to how many PvE slots you use, unless you need to take Sunspear Rebirth Signet you should still have a free slot after taking Critical Agility and Save Yourselves (both of which should be on a MS/DB bar imo). However I'm willing to bet you can probably find better PvE skills to put to use instead of wasting yor last PvE slot on Deep Wound that can be quite easily used in a different skill slot and that isn't recharged by Moebius Strike.
Bobby2
Furnace Stoker
Join Date: Jun 2007
Delayed in order to meet ANet's high standards
[MaSS]
W/E
15 May 2008 at 18:40 - 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc
after taking Critical Agility and Save Yourselves (both of which should be on a MS/DB bar imo)
YES! Someone agrees with me! /dance
Super Igor
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2008
why should you kno? Oo
A/W
15 May 2008 at 18:50 - 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc
Yet you have a finishing blow that takes 15 seconds to recharge and is not covered by energy management from critical strikes or the recharge from Moebius Strike? It doesn't matter if you have energy management or not (which takes another slot) you could quite easily just take a skill that synergises with the rest of your bar and allows you to regain energy from so that you dont need that energy management as much.
You dont need to spam finishing blows, things die nearly at once or take some time to die so your finishing blow rehcrges anyway, energy management doesnt take up amn extra slot as you main attribut is already an energy management, i agree that [twisting fangs] has a better synergy with you bar but its for that bar, generally [finish him] is a more powerfull skill and is better choice for other templates.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc
Wrong, I know fully well the skills capabilites, but I'd much rather spam Deep Wound on multiple targets making the killing process much much quicker. Deep Wound is a huge chunk off your targets health that stays off (unless removed) and reduces the amount of healing the target recieves.
You dont need to spam dw all the time, it helps but is not a complete must.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc
Yet you praise Finsh Him to the ground and run it on your bar? o.O Kind of contradictory there Igor.
Not praiseing it, rather defending it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by YOU KNOW WHO! ;)
No need to get rude or personal Igor over someones opinion. As for GFS on a Shattersin bar, well now you're taking away the whole point of taking a Shattersin, bypassing blocking enchantments and stances, not going to do that if you cant hit your dual. Better of making the whole bar unblockable including the Deep Wound.
For the record I run GFS on my MS/DB bar. It makes stuff explode and die, lots!
I said to use two offhands, taking gfs and wild, you strip enchies first, then apply dw, or apply it right away if there are none of the things that bock, they do it sometimes and it works, the combo is short anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by .......................
Personally I find spamming Deep Wound proves helpful in all areas.
Cracked armour is pointless against casters (which you should be targeting mainly with you lovely high DPS rate) because it doesn't reduce base armour level to less than 60 (correct me if I'm wrong). Even more so in areas where your faced with heavy caster mobs.
Finsh Him would generally imo be better suited to the Shattersin to maintain full unblockability with the Deep Wound (which is the whole point of taking the Shattersin), and give it a much needed damage boost on demand so that you don't have to pull off your whole chain with the Shattersin to get to Impale, or even a casters bar as they don't need to get into melee range with it to inflict Deep Wound. Take TF or GFS on the MS/DB sin dependant on the rest of your chain.
Cracked armor is used to nullify defensive sets in PvP.
In PvE mobs have high armor level, but itsa not the point, [finish him] if just another good way to apply dw, even for an assassin, this what i am talking about.
Oh and Havoc, its turns out the same as the oooooold argument we had about resurrect being worst res ingame (you were saying it was good ), just before i was running you to sanctum cay rememmber?
Unreal Havoc
Guest
Join Date: Dec 2007
15 May 2008 at 19:25 - 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Igor
You dont need to spam finishing blows, things die nearly at once or take some time to die so your finishing blow rehcrges anyway, energy management doesnt take up amn extra slot as you main attribut is already an energy management, i agree that [twisting fangs] has a better synergy with you bar but its for that bar, generally [finish him] is a more powerfull skill and is better choice for other templates.
I disagree on some of this statement, but at least you now agree about the synergy of TF compared to FH on a MS/DB sin.
Quote:
You dont need to spam dw all the time, it helps but is not a complete must.
Already gone over this one, you don't need to, no one is saying to, but it helps to pack it and is very beneficial.
Quote:
Not praiseing it, rather defending it.
Why? No one is saying its a bad skill, just questioning its synergy on a MS/DB bar when you can use other skills that are far more benficial and synergise better.
Quote:
I said to use two offhands, taking gfs and wild, you strip enchies first, then apply dw, or apply it right away if there are none of the things that bock, they do it sometimes and it works, the combo is short anyway.
Pointless, you may aswell just take Impale or Finish Him to be honest rather than running two offhands. Finish Him would be a great compliment to a Shattersin in PvE imo, use it when you like at the same recharge time as Impale with more damage and no need to spec into Deadly Arts or sacrifice a skill slot to take another offhand. Everything you have said about this skill that IS good suits the Shattersin perfectly. Why? Because it aids the Shattersin in the job its brought along for... preparing a target to get smashed to bits!
Quote:
Cracked armor is used to nullify defensive sets in PvP.
Not PvP, this is a PvE discussion.
Quote:
In PvE mobs have high armor level, but itsa not the point, [finish him] if just another good way to apply dw, even for an assassin, this what i am talking about.
True I did completely disregard that point, but I still disagree with its synergies on a MS/DB chain due to the lack of recharge, etc. It would be better in a Shattersin or Fevered Dreams sin skillbar imo.
Quote:
Oh and Havoc, its turns out the same as the oooooold argument we had about resurrect being worst res ingame (you were saying it was good ), just before i was running you to sanctum cay rememmber?
Actually if you remember right, I said it was the best Res I had available. I normally always run Rebirth, Sunspear Rebirth Signet, or Flesh of my Flesh.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby2
YES! Someone agrees with me! /dance
/dance
Super Igor
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2008
why should you kno? Oo
A/W
15 May 2008 at 19:46 - 142
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc
I disagree on some of this statement, but at least you now agree about the synergy of TF compared to FH on a MS/DB sin.
I have never disagreed on that it has synergy with MS/DB, i was doubting whether it is so much needed or if it is a best choice there is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unreeeeeel Havuk
Already gone over this one, you don't need to, no one is saying to, but it helps to pack it and is very beneficial.
if you dont need to spam it all the time [finish him] would do good too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc
Why? No one is saying its a bad skill, just questioning its synergy on a MS/DB bar when you can use other skills that are far more benficial and synergise better.
It doesnt have as much synergy as dagger atack with MS/DB but it has some good points Ive gone over already. It is cool to shout such things as an Assassin too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unreal havoc
Pointless, you may aswell just take Impale or Finish Him to be honest rather than running two offhands. Finish Him would be a great compliment to a Shattersin in PvE imo, use it when you like at the same recharge time as Impale with more damage and no need to spec into Deadly Arts or sacrifice a skill slot to take another offhand. Everything you have said about this skill that IS good suits the Shattersin perfectly.
With exactly the same "Pointless" this current debate started, now you are saying it is after all not as pointless. GFS is decent on a Shattersin, this way you can apply dw faster and spam it more often if you want, you dont always have things blocking too, so it is a strong variant. You strip all of the defences and then applly dw.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc
True I did completely disregard that point, but I still disagree with its synergies on a MS/DB chain due to the lack of recharge, etc. It would be better in a Shattersin or Fevered Dreams sin skillbar imo.
Still decent, even good!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc
Actually if you remember right, I said it was the best Res I had available. I normally always run Rebirth, Sunspear Rebirth Signet, or Flesh of my Flesh.
You said FoMFs health loss was a killah for the party and ressing someone with 25% hp and no energy was better.
/dance
Unreal Havoc
Guest
Join Date: Dec 2007
15 May 2008 at 20:44 - 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Igor
With exactly the same "Pointless" this current debate started, now you are saying it is after all not as pointless. GFS is decent on a Shattersin, this way you can apply dw faster and spam it more often if you want, you dont always have things blocking too, so it is a strong variant. You strip all of the defences and then applly dw.
But with Finish Him you prepare the target with Deep Wound and Cracked Armour aswell as stripping all their defenses and having better damage, while keeping it all unblockable, no? As you said, spamming Deep Wound isn't nessacary just helpful (the tables can turn ). In this scenario I think that Finish Him would be more beneficial to a Shattersin that prepares targets for the party to kill.
However this debate is going nowhere and lets be straight, we wont agree because we both play differently and take different approachs to PvE. Now the debate is starting to get more about opinion than about fact which will just kill the debate. Agree to disagree?
Quote:
You said FoMFs health loss was a killah for the party and ressing someone with 25% hp and no energy was better.
Sarcasm Igor, sarcasm. Even I'm not that dumb. Lol. The best way to use Resurrect imo is for Death Levelling pets, other than that I wouldnt use it unless I had to (ie: newly rolled character I haven't bothered to buy skills for yet). However this isn't really about Assassins now so lets stay on topic.
Quote:
/dance
/dance
Kaleban
Jungle Guide
Join Date: May 2005
Hot as hell Florida
[Wckd]
Me/
15 May 2008 at 21:19 - 144
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Igor
I have never disagreed on that it has synergy with MS/DB, i was doubting whether it is so much needed or if it is a best choice there is.
[skill]"Finish Him"[/skill] sucks on an Assassin, period. Why? Because it has no synergy with any build. A 10 energy shout cuts into your pool pretty decently number one, and since its a shout there's no recharge from zealous or a chance on critical hits. The assassin has many superior DW applicating skills, that can be used in both PvE and PvP.
Quote:
if you dont need to spam it all the time [finish him] would do good too.
No it would not. Impale doesn't need to be spammed, nor does Twisting Fangs, especially in Moebius builds with more than one dual attack. They are used situationally, and have better parity with the rest of the assassin skill set.
Quote:
It doesnt have as much synergy as dagger atack with MS/DB but it has some good points Ive gone over already. It is cool to shout such things as an Assassin too.
The "good points" you've gone over do not work on a sin. On a Paragon, who can actually benefit from the Shout e-management, yes, it has synergy, but the Assassin does not have Leadership. The only time I put [skill]"Finish Him"[/skill] on a sin skill bar is generally a solo farming build that doesn't even use dagger attacks!
Quote:
With exactly the same "Pointless" this current debate started, now you are saying it is after all not as pointless. GFS is decent on a Shattersin, this way you can apply dw faster and spam it more often if you want, you dont always have things blocking too, so it is a strong variant. You strip all of the defences and then applly dw.
Obviously, having the 4 second recharge and DW capability of [skill]Golden Fang Strike[/skill] is valuable to a Shattersin, but most Moebius builds which this thread is about profit more from Wild Strike to remove block stances, and while the lack of DW allows the target to live longer, it also allows for more [skill]Death Blossom[/skill] spammage.
In the final equation, [skill]"Finish Him"[/skill] is no bueno an any assassin build, shy of solo farming.
petrorabbit
Frost Gate Guardian
Join Date: Oct 2007
15 May 2008 at 21:51 - 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaleban
[skill]"Finish Him"[/skill] sucks on an Assassin, period. Why? Because it has no synergy with any build. A 10 energy shout cuts into your pool pretty decently number one, and since its a shout there's no recharge from zealous or a chance on critical hits. The assassin has many superior DW applicating skills, that can be used in both PvE and PvP.
When it comes to [Finish Him] vs [Twisting Fangs], the energy return is neglegible, especially in a shattersin build with 13 CS, and zealous daggers. Finish Him does have a cool down, so 10 energy every 15 seconds is not going hurt you especially with the aforementioned stats and daggers.
Quote:
No it would not. Impale doesn't need to be spammed, nor does Twisting Fangs, especially in Moebius builds with more than one dual attack. They are used situationally, and have better parity with the rest of the assassin skill set.
Wouldn't Finish Him be used in this same regard? As of now, [Finish Him] is the superior choice to [Impale] in PvE because it doesn't not have a casting time, doesn't require points in DA to be effective, and also adds a cracked armor conditions. The benefits of cracked armor have already been covered so we won't need to repeat that here. Since [Impale] renerfing to 1 second activation time, [Finish Him] instant activation makes it more appealing.
Quote:
The "good points" you've gone over do not work on a sin. On a Paragon, who can actually benefit from the Shout e-management, yes, it has synergy, but the Assassin does not have Leadership. The only time I put [skill]"Finish Him"[/skill] on a sin skill bar is generally a solo farming build that doesn't even use dagger attacks!
Hmm, maybe you are unfamiliar with what Leadership does. The energy gain is only for shouts that affect allies. Finish Him does not affect allies in the same way [Go for the Eyes] does, so therefore does not back up your claim. I do agree, Finish him is great for sliver armor/shadowform farming.
Quote:
Obviously, having the 4 second recharge and DW capability of [skill]Golden Fang Strike[/skill] is valuable to a Shattersin, but most Moebius builds which this thread is about profit more from Wild Strike to remove block stances, and while the lack of DW allows the target to live longer, it also allows for more [skill]Death Blossom[/skill] spammage.
Although I agree that [Golden Fox Strike] > [Wild Strike] is more beneficial to a Moebius build, I still don't think you should let a target live longer just so your AoE effect from [Death Blossom] can be used for 1 more cycle.
Quote:
In the final equation, [skill]"Finish Him"[/skill] is no bueno an any assassin build, shy of solo farming.
You're entitled to your opinion, but I think more players here will agree, that [Finish Him] has its place on a non Moebius bar. It works wonders with [Assassin's Promise] and [Signet of Deadly Corruption]. And as mentioned, is a very good DW option on a PvE Shattersin.
moriz
??ber t??k-n??sh'??n
Join Date: Jan 2006
Canada
R/
15 May 2008 at 22:39 - 146
[[finish him] is pretty good on an assassin, since it's the only way to apply a deep wound that won't interrupt the combo. obviously, twisting fangs does the same thing, but it doesn't fit very well on a moebius sin.
Super Igor
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2008
why should you kno? Oo
A/W
15 May 2008 at 23:02 - 147
Quote:
Originally Posted by moriz
[[finish him] is pretty good on an assassin, since it's the only way to apply a deep wound that won't interrupt the combo. obviously, twisting fangs does the same thing, but it doesn't fit very well on a moebius sin.
Here!
Exactly what i was talking about earlyer in the thread, I can use the shout mid [death blossom] then interrupt my AoE damage to apply the finishing blow with [twisting fangs]. Thats why [finish him] is good, it is instant, very fast and ynavoidable, also ranged. And its synergy with MS/DB is that it doesnt interrupt the combo.
[finish him], [twisting fangs], [golden fang strike] are pretty much equal in my oppinion, every one of them is worthy to use having its own strong advantages on every daggerbased assassin build.
*Edit*
Wont even bother to comment on Kaleban's post as it is so...so much wrong and bad...
Bobby2
Furnace Stoker
Join Date: Jun 2007
Delayed in order to meet ANet's high standards
[MaSS]
W/E
15 May 2008 at 23:19 - 148
OH please. Compare
[skill]finish him[/skill] and [skill]impale[/skill]
Impale is cheaper, just as unblockable, with the downside of having to follow up on a Dual (like Shattering isn't going to hit. srsly.) but it doesn't chew a PvE slot. My idea of playing a Shattersin:
[skill]golden fox strike[/skill][skill]wild strike[/skill][skill]shattering assault[/skill][skill]impale[/skill]TAB.
So imho it doesn't really matter if the DW could be applied at any moment between chain attacks.
btw: Impale doesn't ruin a MS-DB chain either.
RavagerOfDreams
Desert Nomad
Join Date: Dec 2007
somewhere over the rainbow....
A/
15 May 2008 at 23:30 - 149
for those of us with high norn FH is a much better choice as 10 energy every 15 seconds is easy to manage. With a high rank FH outdamages gives another condition (both conditions also last longer) for another, and requires no point investment. 5 energy (more then worth it imo) so it really depends on your norn rank/ability to manage energy
isamu kurosawa
Desert Nomad
Join Date: Nov 2005
United Kingdom
Me/
15 May 2008 at 23:54 - 150
As stated by others [[finish him] has the huge advantage of not needing points in DA. This means you can confortably run 13 cs and 14 dagger mastery.
as usual it depends on your build, as well as the builds of your team.
read this however you want
[[impale|finish him] > [[finish him|impale]
Stormlord Alex
Grotto Attendant
Join Date: Dec 2005
Beyond the Forest of Doom, past the Cavern of Agony... on Kitten & Puppy Island
Soul of Melandru [sOm]
W/E
16 May 2008 at 00:11 - 151
hai guyz wuts goin on in dis thred
btw
[finish him] is good on just about anyone (monks are excused, they need that energy/skill slot for t3h healz)
The assassin is no exception.
RavagerOfDreams
Desert Nomad
Join Date: Dec 2007
somewhere over the rainbow....
A/
16 May 2008 at 00:18 - 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex
hai guyz wuts goin on in dis thred
btw
[finish him] is good on just about anyone (monks are excused, they need that energy/skill slot for t3h healz)
The assassin is no exception.
the lord of cats speaks the truth
petrorabbit
Frost Gate Guardian
Join Date: Oct 2007
16 May 2008 at 00:41 - 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby2
OH please. Compare
[skill]finish him[/skill] and [skill]impale[/skill]
Impale is cheaper, just as unblockable, with the downside of having to follow up on a Dual (like Shattering isn't going to hit. srsly.) but it doesn't chew a PvE slot. My idea of playing a Shattersin:
[skill]golden fox strike[/skill][skill]wild strike[/skill][skill]shattering assault[/skill][skill]impale[/skill]TAB.
So imho it doesn't really matter if the DW could be applied at any moment between chain attacks.
btw: Impale doesn't ruin a MS-DB chain either.
Prenerf Impale maybe, but that 1 second activation time makes that 5 extra energy on instant Finish Him worth it. Plus i like running 13 CS and 14DM. Besides, other than [Critical Agility] and [Save Yourselves], what other PvE skill would you run in a shattersin bar?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Igor
Wont even bother to comment on Kaleban's post as it is so...so much wrong and bad...
Although another +1 of disproving Kaleban would have been nice =)
Bobby2
Furnace Stoker
Join Date: Jun 2007
Delayed in order to meet ANet's high standards
[MaSS]
W/E
16 May 2008 at 02:11 - 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by petrorabbit
Besides, other than [Critical Agility] and [Save Yourselves], what other PvE skill would you run in a shattersin bar?
[skill]you move like a dwarf[/skill] much needed, versatile interrupt
[skill]asuran scan[/skill] if you actually want to deal lethal damage someday
[skill]great dwarf weapon[/skill]/[skill]great dwarf armor[/skill] when feeling altruistic
[skill]sneak attack[/skill] for easy melee pwnage
...need I really go on?
All of these add a new, powerful element to the build, as opposed to [skill]finish him[/skill], which does a job already done well enough by several normal Sin skills.
petrorabbit
Frost Gate Guardian
Join Date: Oct 2007
16 May 2008 at 03:31 - 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby2
[skill]you move like a dwarf[/skill] much needed, versatile interrupt
[skill]asuran scan[/skill] if you actually want to deal lethal damage someday
[skill]great dwarf weapon[/skill]/[skill]great dwarf armor[/skill] when feeling altruistic
[skill]sneak attack[/skill] for easy melee pwnage
...need I really go on?
All of these add a new, powerful element to the build, as opposed to [skill]finish him[/skill], which does a job already done well enough by several normal Sin skills.
[You Move Like a Dwarf] is a strong skill that can be on a shattersin bar, but often times I find it unneccessary. Also, its annoying when you run into mobs that are immune to KD. Besides, i find [Disrupting Dagger] as a very good and reliable interupt even at 0 deadly arts.
[Asuran Scan] I don't know if i'd take this over [Finish Him] because of that 2 second casting time. The damage on the shattersin chain is not that bad, and it can indeed kill stuff, just not as quickly as a moebius bar. Finish Him still boosts damage since many high end mosters have over 60 AL armor, so i think i'd take the added DW also in 1 slot.
[Great Dwarf Weapon] is target other ally, but if you want to use your 3rd pve slot to boost another melee character, than by all means. Although i'd rather put this on a supporting character.
[Great Dwarf Armor] sounds like a good choice at first since it directly boosts your armor, but i dont' think i'd take that over Finish Him. For melee, you have [Critical Defense] as an option since you have so much room for utility on the shattersin bar. Maybe this would go well in a area with more magic damage than anything else.
[Sneak Attack] On a shattersin bar? Maybe, but I really don't see the point in bringing it when it can be blocked. Sure you can do it after the combo, but blinding a target that is almost dead doesn't seem efficient to me.
All in all, out of the options you mentioned, the only thing I would consider bringing instead of [Finish Him] is [You Move Like a Dwarf]. Even then, I think i'd rather take the DW and CA, since there are mobs in EotN especially, that can't be knocked down.
And if you have more PvE only skills that you think are more useful on the shattersin bar, then please do go on. =)
Bobby2
Furnace Stoker
Join Date: Jun 2007
Delayed in order to meet ANet's high standards
[MaSS]
W/E
16 May 2008 at 03:56 - 156
Quote Wars!
Quote:
Originally Posted by petrorabbit
[You Move Like a Dwarf] is a strong skill that can be on a shattersin bar, but often times I find it unneccessary. Also, its annoying when you run into mobs that are immune to KD. Besides, i find [Disrupting Dagger] as a very good and reliable interupt even at 0 deadly arts. Shame it doesn't snare as well eh? I'd rather think of the number of foes not immune to KD.
[Asuran Scan] I don't know if i'd take this over [Finish Him] because of that 2 second casting time. The damage on the shattersin chain is not that bad, and it can indeed kill stuff, just not as quickly as a moebius bar. Finish Him still boosts damage since many high end mosters have over 60 AL armor, so i think i'd take the added DW also in 1 slot. Agree on casting time, but comparing its effect to Cracked Armour is just hilarious. At least, once you get Asura to a decent level.
[Great Dwarf Weapon] is target other ally, but if you want to use your 3rd pve slot to boost another melee character, than by all means. Although i'd rather put this on a supporting character. Meet random Derv when lfg for HM mission or sthing. You offer to bring GDW if he does so too - both of you smile wickedly. Hence altruistic.
Make friends.
[Great Dwarf Armor] sounds like a good choice at first since it directly boosts your armor, but i dont' think i'd take that over Finish Him. For melee, you have [Critical Defense] as an option since you have so much room for utility on the shattersin bar. Maybe this would go well in a area with more magic damage than anything else. Again, you self-centered little... lol. Was meant for others as well ('man I loooove having this Sin around'). Yes, it's worthless next to SY!, but I was just throwing out random ideas.
[Sneak Attack] On a shattersin bar? Maybe, but I really don't see the point in bringing it when it can be blocked. Sure you can do it after the combo, but blinding a target that is almost dead doesn't seem efficient to me. You can keep a target perma-Blind. Please tell me how this is not good.
All in all, out of the options you mentioned, the only thing I would consider bringing instead of [Finish Him] is [You Move Like a Dwarf]. Even then, I think i'd rather take the DW and CA, since there are mobs in EotN especially, that can't be knocked down. The vast (VAST!) majority of baddies are not immune, let's just assume KD's are good for a second. But why lose your DW over it? That's what Impale is for
12
petrorabbit
Frost Gate Guardian
Join Date: Oct 2007
16 May 2008 at 05:44 - 157
Impale has a 1 second activation time, which is more than enough time for it to be interupted which. Finish him is instant can only by stopped by something like [Vocal Minority] or [Well of Silence] which is not so common among mobs.
And heres something cut and pasted from wiki for you:
Quote:
Creatures that cannot be knocked down
Certain creatures are simply too large for a tiny human player to knock off balance. These creatures are listed below. This list does not include creatures that use skills to temporarily protect themselves from knockdowns. The following are all giant creatures though not necessarily of the species "giant":
All Giants EXCEPT Awakened Gray Giants.
All Dolyak-riding Stone Summit units:
Dolyak Master
Dolyak Rider
Stone Summit Heretic
All beast-riding Stone Summit units:
Summit Beastmaster
Stone Summit Herder
The large- and medium-sized Titans:
Burning Titan
Frost Titan
Risen Ashen Hulk
Rotting Titan
Wild Growth
Some Trees.
All Wurms.
Dragon Liches.
Glint the dragon.
All Hydras
Siege Ice Golems
Stone Crushers
Zhu Hanuku
Shiro Tagachi
Sandstorm Crag
Shambling Mesa
Abaddon
Berserking Bison
All Jotun
Retrieved from "http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Knockdown"
Ok, so maybe you don't play in areas like Realm of Torment where you do run into titans, or maybe Shiverpeaks where you will run into Dolyaks, Seige Ice Golems or Wurms. Hydras in the desert? Maybe you don't run into Jotun or berserking bison in Norn territory that much, or farm norn points killing the dragon spirits in Path to Revalations. So maybe they're not as common compared to the whole GW beastiary but it affects areas that myself, and i'm sure others play in.
So far, your argument that there are other PvE skills better for a Shattersin bar than [Finish Him] isn't really convincing, only [You Move Like a Dwarf] can compare. Yes Impale can do DW, but Finish Him does it better without moving points around. If you need a KD and snare that bad, than bring YmlaD.
I guess at this point, its just back and forth opinions now. Either way, both [You move like a dwarf] and [Finish him] have their merits and we've gone over both. Players can decide for themselves what they want to use on their bar.
Unreal Havoc
Guest
Join Date: Dec 2007
16 May 2008 at 07:29 - 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by petrorabbit
[You Move Like a Dwarf] is a strong skill that can be on a shattersin bar, but often times I find it unneccessary. Also, its annoying when you run into mobs that are immune to KD. Besides, i find [Disrupting Dagger] as a very good and reliable interupt even at 0 deadly arts.
/Agree
Quote:
[Asuran Scan] I don't know if i'd take this over [Finish Him] because of that 2 second casting time. The damage on the shattersin chain is not that bad, and it can indeed kill stuff, just not as quickly as a moebius bar. Finish Him still boosts damage since many high end mosters have over 60 AL armor, so i think i'd take the added DW also in 1 slot.
This is a great skill for boosting damage dealt by an Assassin, I don't think it appiles to the AoE damage from Death Blossom though.
Quote:
][Great Dwarf Weapon] is target other ally, but if you want to use your 3rd pve slot to boost another melee character, than by all means. Although i'd rather put this on a supporting character.
Should already be running Save Yourselves as the ultimate party support skill, this is unnessacary on an Assassin.
Quote:
[Great Dwarf Armor] sounds like a good choice at first since it directly boosts your armor, but i dont' think i'd take that over Finish Him. For melee, you have [Critical Defense] as an option since you have so much room for utility on the shattersin bar. Maybe this would go well in a area with more magic damage than anything else.
Why would you run this on an Assassin when you have Critical Agility?
Quote:
[Sneak Attack] On a shattersin bar? Maybe, but I really don't see the point in bringing it when it can be blocked. Sure you can do it after the combo, but blinding a target that is almost dead doesn't seem efficient to me.
No point in runniing it on a Shattersin bar seems the rest of the attacks take 4 seconds to recharge anyway. Shattersins versatility is its unblockability, why sacrifice that for mediocre skills?
Quote:
All in all, out of the options you mentioned, the only thing I would consider bringing instead of [Finish Him] is [You Move Like a Dwarf]. Even then, I think i'd rather take the DW and CA, since there are mobs in EotN especially, that can't be knocked down.
On a Shattersin I'm going to agree.
Quote:
And if you have more PvE only skills that you think are more useful on the shattersin bar, then please do go on. =)
I think many more will be brought up by the end of today.
moriz
??ber t??k-n??sh'??n
Join Date: Jan 2006
Canada
R/
16 May 2008 at 13:03 - 159
on second thought, any deep wound on a moebius sin is quite bad. why? because that means 1 less death blossom, which means potentially a lot less aoe damage.
not to mention, the build certainly don't need a deep wound. it does enough damage to plow through most monsters in one go.
Unreal Havoc
Guest
Join Date: Dec 2007
16 May 2008 at 13:24 - 160
Quote:
Originally Posted by moriz
on second thought, any deep wound on a moebius sin is quite bad. why? because that means 1 less death blossom, which means potentially a lot less aoe damage.
not to mention, the build certainly don't need a deep wound. it does enough damage to plow through most monsters in one go.
One extra skill to get into the chain. Golden Fang Strike if you're using Golden Phoenix as your lead, when switching targets under Critical Agility doesn't really going to make that much difference to be honest. Also in this case you could say one less Moebius Strike, which doesn't do AoE, in which case the Deep Wound would be beneficial.
)
Agreed!
