Ursan Blessing Nerf Suggestion: Regional Limit - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

noneedforclevernames

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2007

Jay To Much [SrE]

Me/N

29 Apr 2008 at 02:13 - 121

Quote:

Originally Posted by mage767

Fine, let us keep Ursan Blessing so that everyone is happy, but let's make these changes:

1. All Elite area/dungeon bosses in HM (not in NM) have a new special skill called 'Blast Blessings'.

Blast Blessing: Monster Skill (spell) will cause all characters within earshot to lose all godly blessings/form converting them back to human form. It only makes them lose form, so if a person recharges energy to 10e, then he is free to use Ursan/Raven etc form again (but the boss can again remove it

).

This skill will NOT remove any HP/energy or existing enchantments. Just the form (so dervishes should be affected too)

Make it a '3 second' cast and 10 second recharge, lol.

2. Bosses using that spell can be interrupted to keep Ursan blessing alive (if there is a way *hint hint*)

gg for avatar dervishes..

Thizzle

Banned

Join Date: Apr 2008

29 Apr 2008 at 02:15 - 122

This skill makes the game a little easier yes, but some classes that nobody would want can now enjoy the game and there's a lot less bicker when you do a HM run or elite mission. This argument never goes anywhere. One person will say "It ruined my awesome 100k+100e ambraces omg!" and someone else will say yay "yes I got vanquisher finally and all thanks to ursan!". I think once you beat a game you deserve a little help or extras and although ursan is gained much before beating EoTN it really is necessary for those HM dungeons. One great thing is HM FoW in 1 hour 20 minutes because a lot of people don't have the time to spend 5 hours in an elite mission area or don't want to. I don't see a point in nerfing the skill and the #1 reason people hate it is because it balanced the economy.

It gives people more of a chance than just a monk who solo farmed UW back in the day or troll farming to get that Obsidian armor. It's PvE the only thing it really hurts is the economy, you will never have to fight players with Ursan, and everyone including casual players can enjoy all areas of the game without having to spend half a hour to make a team and put the build together.

Why do people keep the QQ going when it's already fair and balanced. I don't agree with grinding the title to get a higher rank or max it but, anyone and everyone can use it and has a equal opportunity. I don't see any point in nerfing this skill.

kazjun

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2006

HoVa

W/N

29 Apr 2008 at 06:02 - 123

Actually, I wouldn't mind it in pvp either. Simple e-denial turns them back, and you'd probably get them all going haxxors and rage quitting in the first match.

And you know they'd be the exact type of player that would over extend right past your back line. A nice crip shot and some degen and you can watch them hobbling after you. And when they turn back, you know they'd be just the type to spam heal sig. In the open. Right in front of you. With no cover

кιωι

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2008

[Doom] recruiting aussie/kiwi/euro for HM, PM

29 Apr 2008 at 10:26 - 124

/notsigned

Waiting on prices of insc. chaos axes to drop

Nukey

Academy Page

Join Date: Oct 2006

29 Apr 2008 at 14:25 - 125

I agree that Ursan needs to be nerfed. I don't really care that other people are using it to make the game easier, but I can't seem to find a normal group for elite areas that don't want an Ursan.

Sir Pandra Pierva

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2007

Sardelec yelling at Tenshi

Angels Of Strife

E/

29 Apr 2008 at 20:21 - 126

psst its called a friends list.

my big problem with UB is that it made it so that you need the worst expasion to do high end areas easily.....so one would hope with ursans i watch retarted PUGers wipe quickly on areas that i do blanced and take over no problem.

/signed for the norn elits in PVP. it would be funny to see a ub group trying for halls. and also it would be funny to watch them in RA.

E-surge time.

please anet let us have this much fun with the skill.

IslandHermet

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2007

30 Apr 2008 at 12:12 - 127

This thread should be merged with the other how to nerf ursan thread, or one of the many ursan hater threads.

this is the how to nerf ursan thread and ideas on how to nerf it.
http://guildwarsguru.org/forum/showt...php?t=10272027

BlackSephir

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2006

A/N

30 Apr 2008 at 12:35 - 128

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thizzle

This skill makes the game a little easier yes, but some classes that nobody would want can now enjoy the game and there's a lot less bicker when you do a HM run or elite mission.

And still nobody takes mesmers or assassins into groups. They take ursans.
Gee, that's nice, we have many different classes in ursan group but 6 out of 8 are running the same build.

Quote:

"yes I got vanquisher finally and all thanks to ursan!"

"Because I'm too bad to vanquish all of them w/o ridiculously overpowered skills".

Quote:

it really is necessary for those HM dungeons.

Rofl, see what ursan did to you there? Breaking news- Ursan produces bad players.

pumpkin pie

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2006

behind you

bumble bee

E/

30 Apr 2008 at 13:44 - 129

make 2 regions, one for players who wants to play with ursan and one for players who don't :P~

Mini Masher

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Oct 2006

[pink]

W/

30 Apr 2008 at 16:31 - 130

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thizzle

One great thing is HM FoW in 1 hour 20 minutes because a lot of people don't have the time to spend 5 hours in an elite mission area or don't want to.

If it takes you 5 hours to do FoW, you're doing it wrong. And FoW is much faster than 1hr 20min w/o ursan btw.

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

30 Apr 2008 at 16:34 - 131

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thizzle

One great thing is HM FoW in 1 hour 20 minutes because a lot of people don't have the time to spend 5 hours in an elite mission area or don't want to.

1:20 with Ursan?
How...bad...

yum

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Sep 2007

W/E

30 Apr 2008 at 16:52 - 132

the supporters of UB should go play Pacman.

bai

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

30 Apr 2008 at 18:42 - 133

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thizzle

This skill makes the game a little easier yes, but some classes that nobody would want can now enjoy the game and there's a lot less bicker when you do a HM run or elite mission.

All professions have the ability and viability to succeed fully in Guild Wars. The only exception would be the Mesmer, but they only have to work slightly harder.

The only reasons these professions have trouble is because people think they suck. It's the same people who think that the Paragon is the worst and most nerfed profession (when it is actually probably the best damn class for PvE).

My #1 reason for hating it has nothing to do with the economy, by the way.

You can't see me

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2006

USA

P/W

30 Apr 2008 at 19:32 - 134

The way I see Ursan is a grind reducer, which we've asked for for years. I mean, consider the time it takes to do HM things with Ursan Versus Regular teams. The difference isn't that much for good players, but it adds up. Title grind has been made much easier because of it. Oh, and FYI, Vanquishing was already possible for bad players. Ursan made it possible for bad players with less time on their hands.

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

30 Apr 2008 at 19:45 - 135

Quote:

Originally Posted by You can't see me

The way I see Ursan is a grind reducer, which we've asked for for years. I mean, consider the time it takes to do HM things with Ursan Versus Regular teams. The difference isn't that much for good players, but it adds up.

This is where I was lost: How does it "add up"? If you were good, you would go through things quickly...because you were good.

And if they wanted to reduce title grind, couldn't they just reduce the points needed for the titles?

You can't see me

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2006

USA

P/W

30 Apr 2008 at 19:49 - 136

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

This is where I was lost: How does it "add up"? If you were good, you would go through things quickly...because you were good.

And if they wanted to reduce title grind, couldn't they just reduce the points needed for the titles?

I'll set you back on track.

X Region Vanquish Time with Ursan: X minutes.
X Region Vanquish Time without Ursan, X + Y minutes.

When you do three regions, you get 3Y, which can add up to the point where you can do a whole other region in the time alloted to you for playtime.

On your edit, I think Arenanet may have seen that as a slap in the face for people who actually did get the full points. But keep in mind, reducing grind isn't Ursan's only function.

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

30 Apr 2008 at 19:52 - 137

Quote:

Originally Posted by You can't see me

I'll set you back on track.

X Region Vanquish Time with Ursan: X minutes.
X Region Vanquish Time without Ursan, X + Y minutes.

Alright...How is this proven? If you're a good player with a good team then I don't think you'll notice much of a difference. If you're with H/H you may notice less of a difference.

And reducing grind is most certainly not Ursan's "only function."

You can't see me

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2006

USA

P/W

30 Apr 2008 at 19:54 - 138

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Alright...How is this proven? If you're a good player with a good team then I don't think you'll notice much of a difference. If you're with H/H you may notice less of a difference.

The "if" in that is the deciding factor. There are many more bad players who would notice a huge difference than good players who wouldn't. Is that a good thing to cater to bad players? Not to good players, but to Arenanet, players are paying customers, and catering to paying customers who may in turn pay more if they enjoy it is a good thing.

Also, I never claimed the reduction was ground breaking, it just makes a difference, large or small.

~Edit, the only function thing was a typo. That was meant to be and now is, "isn't".

0siris

Riding the Gravy Train

Join Date: Oct 2005

Chicago Area

Servants of Fortuna [SoF]

W/

30 Apr 2008 at 20:00 - 139

wow still not closed? guess I'll get my +1 in

I've never used it, don't plan on using it, don't really care about those who do use it.

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

30 Apr 2008 at 20:05 - 140

Quote:

Originally Posted by You can't see me

The "if" in that is the deciding factor. There are many more bad players who would notice a huge difference than good players who wouldn't. Is that a good thing to cater to bad players? Not to good players, but to Arenanet, players are paying customers, and catering to paying customers who may in turn pay more if they enjoy it is a good thing.

That's why many people consider a problem. It's not just providing the "bad" players a quicker time through areas that it takes a "good" player to complete, it's removing the incentive to even become "good". When a person sees that they can easily reach and complete any piece of content in the game, why would they have to improve? They probably even don't know how "easy" they have it (if they don't consider it easy already, then oh god).

And when has catering to the "bad" players ever been a good idea? If Blizzard went ahead and added all the suggestions that would essentially make WoW as easy as rolling your face on the keyboard, then I don't think it would've been as successful as it is now.

You can't see me

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2006

USA

P/W

30 Apr 2008 at 20:10 - 141

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

That's why many people consider a problem. It's not just providing the "bad" players a quicker time through areas that it takes a "good" player to complete, it's removing the incentive to even become "good". When a person sees that they can easily reach and complete any piece of content in the game, why would they have to improve? They probably even don't know how "easy" they have it (if they don't consider it easy already, then oh god).

And when has catering to the "bad" players ever been a good idea? If Blizzard went ahead and added all the suggestions that would essentially make WoW as easy as rolling your face on the keyboard, then I don't think it would've been as successful as it is now.

The thing is, I don't think the incentive was that strong to a lot of the playerbase. Otherwise, I don't think Arenanet would have even considered Ursan to function as it does.

Most "Good" players will graduate from PvE to PvP anyway, so it doesn't effect the playerbase that is actually considered "Good" while catering to the large playerbase that is "bad", thus making for a full scale satisfaction business model. On top of that, the option to play without Ursan is readily available for those who don't want to play it.

the 55 warrior?!?

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Sep 2007

shinra empire

D/

30 Apr 2008 at 20:16 - 142

i think its too powerfull for one skill i think you should just split up the skills so u can still use the ursan blessings BUILD just not with a seperate backup build incase it fails

Thizzle

Banned

Join Date: Apr 2008

30 Apr 2008 at 20:21 - 143

Quote:

Originally Posted by You can't see me

The thing is, I don't think the incentive was that strong to a lot of the playerbase. Otherwise, I don't think Arenanet would have even considered Ursan to function as it does.

Most "Good" players will graduate from PvE to PvP anyway, so it doesn't effect the playerbase that is actually considered "Good" while catering to the large playerbase that is "bad", thus making for a full scale satisfaction business model. On top of that, the option to play without Ursan is readily available for those who don't want to play it.

PvP doesn't change anything. I just tried finding a HA and then I said "Wow, I'm bored". Why AB when you can farm it in Cantha? Why RA when you can get it from Zaishen Challenge quick with trappers? Ursan helped out a lot of classes that nobody ever accepted into groups because they know what happens. Assassins are known to just die along with mesmers. The game just lost that spark it had to me.

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

30 Apr 2008 at 20:23 - 144

Quote:

Originally Posted by You can't see me

The thing is, I don't think the incentive was that strong to a lot of the playerbase. Otherwise, I don't think Arenanet would have even considered Ursan to function as it does.

Essentially "dumbifying" your game never looks good, and further kills meaning to actually having to learn how to play. When you can already kill everything and beat any area with UB, why would you want to have to learn more about your profession, other professions, and more precise team synergy?

There's a lot to learn, explore, and enjoy from Guild Wars. Many, myself included, feel that Ursan creates a bridge that's shorter and ignores all of that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by You can't see me

Most "Good" players will graduate from PvE to PvP anyway...

That's assuming way too much.

Quote:

Originally Posted by You can't see me

On top of that, the option to play without Ursan is readily available for those who don't want to play it.

One of my main concerns is what Ursan teaches newer players. Sadly, what it teaches isn't a whole lot, nor is it good.

Game N Die

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2008

CO

Scions of Carver[SCAR]

W/

30 Apr 2008 at 20:25 - 145

I propose nerfing anti-ursan people.

Thizzle

Banned

Join Date: Apr 2008

30 Apr 2008 at 20:27 - 146

Quote:

Originally Posted by Game N Die

I propose nerfing anti-ursan people.

I agree. /sign

BlackSephir

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2006

A/N

30 Apr 2008 at 20:27 - 147

And buffing brains of some of the pro-ursan people...

Thizzle

Banned

Join Date: Apr 2008

30 Apr 2008 at 20:29 - 148

Most people are mad because they lost the value to their precious ectos, shards, and whatever else you could solo or farm with two people. That's just plain QQ right there. I think everybody should have the opportunity to do everything and anything in the game. A lot of people are like "but I'm uber leet manz I got mah obsidian armor dyed black and dude I spend like 5 hourz a day in the FoW HM man and now some ursan dude can steal my spotlight" <-- maybe not the same grammar, but you get the idea.

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

30 Apr 2008 at 20:30 - 149

You can say that, but you can also say Ursan is a double-edged blade.
One side is sharper and larger than the other, and that is the bad side.
The other only gives: A crutch to bad players that rewards grind.

Rewarding grind has got to be the stupidest idea in ANY game, and that is why games like that are boring for the most part.

Yet people just want everything out of the way. To rush all accomplishments and move onto the next game. That is stupid and wasting your money, when you can just play normally, learn how to play your profession and learn skill synergies, and also experience the full content at maximum potential.

BlackSephir

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2006

A/N

30 Apr 2008 at 20:32 - 150

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thizzle

Most people are mad because they lost the value to their precious ectos, shards, and whatever else you could solo or farm with two people. That's just plain QQ right there.

[I know this is one crazy idea, but stick with me]
OR!
They may not like ridiculously overpowered skills.

Game N Die

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2008

CO

Scions of Carver[SCAR]

W/

30 Apr 2008 at 20:34 - 151

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

And buffing brains of some of the pro-ursan people...

You are right, I don't know what I was thinking. Down with ursan, and nerf imbagon too, and 55ing, and 600ing, and anything else that is even remotely useful. Heck let's just nerf it all into the ground so that we are all playing with the 8 worst skills in the game. I mean that would really prove skill, wouldn't it?

MasterSasori

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2007

USA

[Thay]

R/Mo

30 Apr 2008 at 20:38 - 152

Quote:

Originally Posted by Game N Die

You are right, I don't know what I was thinking. Down with ursan, and nerf imbagon too, and 55ing, and 600ing, and anything else that is even remotely useful. Heck let's just nerf it all into the ground so that we are all playing with the 8 worst skills in the game. I mean that would really prove skill, wouldn't it?

Go Go [skill]wastrel's collapse[/skill].

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

30 Apr 2008 at 20:39 - 153

Quote:

Originally Posted by Game N Die

You are right, I don't know what I was thinking. Down with ursan, and nerf imbagon too, and 55ing, and 600ing, and anything else that is even remotely useful. Heck let's just nerf it all into the ground so that we are all playing with the 8 worst skills in the game. I mean that would really prove skill, wouldn't it?

55'ing and 600'ing really has no effect on the community for the sole reason that people don't use it for everything the game has to offer.
There are areas which render these builds useless, unlike Imbagon and Ursan, which, on counters against these builds, are extremely easy to work around or have absolutely no effect on how strong the builds are.

BlackSephir

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2006

A/N

30 Apr 2008 at 20:45 - 154

Quote:

Originally Posted by Game N Die

You are right, I don't know what I was thinking. Down with ursan, and nerf imbagon too, and 55ing, and 600ing, and anything else that is even remotely useful. Heck let's just nerf it all into the ground so that we are all playing with the 8 worst skills in the game. I mean that would really prove skill, wouldn't it?

I didn't know people are 55ing and 600ing everything the game has to offer, even in HM.
O rite, they don't.
strawman alert.

Game N Die

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2008

CO

Scions of Carver[SCAR]

W/

30 Apr 2008 at 20:53 - 155

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

55'ing and 600'ing really has no effect on the community for the sole reason that people don't use it for everything the game has to offer.
There are areas which render these builds useless, unlike Imbagon and Ursan, which, on counters against these builds, are extremely easy to work around or have absolutely no effect on how strong the builds are.

And pray tell what is wrong with having strong builds available for groups to use? The only difference is that without these builds, other builds would take their place, which wouldn't be as efficient. These other builds also may bring in other "cookie cutter" dilemmas for certain classes, and lock out new players from even running the cookie cutters if the group didn't know them or even thought they were a "Noob." Ursan Blessing was a good solution to the hostile environment that the "Older" players had created.

You can't see me

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2006

USA

P/W

30 Apr 2008 at 20:54 - 156

The honest truth about Ursan is that it all comes down to how you see the situation. Since that differs widely in the vocal playerbase, I don't see how anyone can expect to see it changed, as Arenanet will never get a straight enough answer.

MasterSasori

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2007

USA

[Thay]

R/Mo

30 Apr 2008 at 20:56 - 157

Quote:

Originally Posted by You can't see me

The honest truth about Ursan is that it all comes down to how you see the situation. Since that differs widely in the vocal playerbase, I don't see how anyone can expect to see it changed, as Arenanet will never get a straight enough answer.

/agree

ANET will probably never change UB and there isnt a point QQ or even talking about the matter. The best the QQ UB threads can ever do is let individuals vent their rage/frustrating/unhappiness which shouldn't belong on the forum anyway.

Game N Die

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2008

CO

Scions of Carver[SCAR]

W/

30 Apr 2008 at 21:02 - 158

EDIT: Nevermind, I'm getting sucked in to this again. I'll just leave my most previous post as my 2 cents.

On Topic: I don't think Ursan needs to be nerfed....now Raven on the other hand...

Clarissa F

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2007

Fighters of the Shiverpeaks

Me/Mo

30 Apr 2008 at 21:05 - 159

I find funny the irony of people wanting to keep Ursan the way it is, using the argument that it makes elite areas accessible to others. They are...'cough-cough...ahem'...ELITE! They were meant as a challenge for people in PvE once they finished the storyline. They were meant to be long and difficult. You had to get a group together and plan it out if you wanted to do it right. You weren't supposed to go with the same people who think it's a challenge to get through Tannakhai Temple with their mending wammo.

I do agree that the whole reason Anet did it was so people had enough to grind away for before GW2 came to the front. Thing is, they kind of went against the whole philosophy of the game, skill>time played, that brought so many to the game.

Of course, if you really want to get away from Ursan, it's easy...

PvP

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

30 Apr 2008 at 21:08 - 160

Quote:

Originally Posted by Game N Die

And pray tell what is wrong with having strong builds available for groups to use? The only difference is that without these builds, other builds would take their place, which wouldn't be as efficient.

It's not really strong "builds", but "build". Just one build, easy to put together, that can be applied to the most difficult areas in Guild Wars.

Finding these other "builds that worked" was what was the challenge in Guild Wars. In order to fully succeed in an area, you'd have to configure and put together the best team build to be able to stand against all the counters within it.

When you take away the need to put together these builds, you take away the challenge.

Quote:

Originally Posted by You can't see me

The honest truth about Ursan is that it all comes down to how you see the situation. Since that differs widely in the vocal playerbase, I don't see how anyone can expect to see it changed, as Arenanet will never get a straight enough answer.

The two most vocal camps have been:
-Those that believe all players should be able to see all content of the game
-Those that believe that certain content should be left difficult for the sake of challenge

I honestly find your view of being pro-ursan a bit questionable: If they wanted to reduce the time it took to grind, then why do so at the sake of other areas of the game, why not just reduce the amount of points needed for the titles? If they wanted to cater to the "bad" players, why release Hard Mode in the first place? I can understand if they wanted to provide more difficulty, but it doesn't really make sense to add UB to the equation.