[Dev Update] Skill Balancing PvE and PvP Seperately - 09 May 2008
Game N Die
Awesome, kudos to Anet for deciding to implement this. Now we need the Xunlai auction house.
Symeon
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Originally Posted by Moloch Vein
Now please make separate PvP and PvE versions of the Soul Reaping primary attribute.
Thanks. |
Faer
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Originally Posted by HawkofStorms
But, a.net won't do that.
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Njaiguni Blaze
I for one like this. People need to remember not all skills will be affected. It'll also mean that more meaning skill balances will be possible to PvP. This could get rid of the endless blockweb everyone is fed up with. An example is the last skill balance which got reverted to prevent lasting effects to PvE. I think it's silly for updates to keep Raptor farmers in mind, and on the other side I'd hate to see Aegis not being usable by Ogden anymore.
I expect (and hope) that many of the skill changes in the temporarily update will be implemented again.
I expect (and hope) that many of the skill changes in the temporarily update will be implemented again.
Richardt
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Originally Posted by Moloch Vein
Now please make separate PvP and PvE versions of the Soul Reaping primary attribute.
Thanks. |
Among other things, I'm wondering about the following skills (as a random smattering-and not that some of these were nerfs...but changes):
[incoming][avatar of grenth][wail of doom][mending refrain]
And as someone mentioned, will there be two people watching both Metas and adjusting different sets of skills?
I'm keeping my eyes out in the next couple of weeks.
enxa
I guess now the door could be open to buffing certain proffesions in PvE whilst not overpoweringthem in PvP, like mesmers. And Ritualists please kthnx 
Arkantos
Awesome. Not only do we now have overpowered PvE skills and ursan, all the overpowered skils that were nerfed are now going to be reverted for us. Thanks ANet, now maybe I'll be able to win in PvE because it's so hard.
Abedeus
Actually, I can't comment this yet. Why? Wiki isn't loading... Why it's not on the Good GWWiki? :/
Rhaegor Stormborn
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Originally Posted by Inde
I'm sorry but I have to say something... and usually it takes a lot to provoke a reaction from me but... ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME??? You can not possibly be serious. At this point I am honestly just going to write your post off as someone just trying to stir up trouble. I would delete it... but there's just this small part of me that cries to think you may be serious.
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Jetdoc
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Originally Posted by Inde
Everyone all ready knows that GW has a learning curve. So you're saying that people actually having to think is their biggest hurdle?
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Originally Posted by Inde
This is the first time that it might actually have a chance (only referring to GW here).
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HawkofStorms
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Originally Posted by Arkantos
Awesome. Not only do we now have overpowered PvE skills and ursan, all the overpowered skils that were nerfed are now going to be reverted for us. Thanks ANet, now maybe I'll be able to win in PvE because it's so hard.
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Azora
let me see if i get it.....
skills wont work the same in pve/ pvp
soo like will we get our ugly nerfed skills back to awesom in pve and still the same in pvp?
skills wont work the same in pve/ pvp
soo like will we get our ugly nerfed skills back to awesom in pve and still the same in pvp?
MagmaRed
I find it funny so many people think there is PvE or PvP. Some people, you know, play both......
I like that they are doing this. What scares me is that some of the skills they 'nerfed' for PvP balance were good changes for PvE as well. We don't need skills that are overpowered. Some are now underpowered, and I'd like to see them buffed, but not all. First one that comes to my mind is "Incoming!". Needed to be nerfed for PvP, I understand that. But it is not worth using at all in PvE, and doesn't see use in PvP (that I'm aware of) unless there are multiple people that know how to chain it.
Ursan is overpowered, and I'd like to see it toned down some. I doubt that is ever going to happen. I do not, however want to see non PvE only skills become just as overpowered. Fixing some skills will be good, overpowering them will not.
I like that they are doing this. What scares me is that some of the skills they 'nerfed' for PvP balance were good changes for PvE as well. We don't need skills that are overpowered. Some are now underpowered, and I'd like to see them buffed, but not all. First one that comes to my mind is "Incoming!". Needed to be nerfed for PvP, I understand that. But it is not worth using at all in PvE, and doesn't see use in PvP (that I'm aware of) unless there are multiple people that know how to chain it.
Ursan is overpowered, and I'd like to see it toned down some. I doubt that is ever going to happen. I do not, however want to see non PvE only skills become just as overpowered. Fixing some skills will be good, overpowering them will not.
Boogey Mancer
i really like the idea of the skills change cause i'm sure
there a lot of players are right now out there that doesn't
play pvp but have to change a skill cause they cant use it anymore
cause it was to overpowered for pvp so us pve players have to suffer
for it i don't like pvp myself so im ok with it being separated.
there a lot of players are right now out there that doesn't
play pvp but have to change a skill cause they cant use it anymore
cause it was to overpowered for pvp so us pve players have to suffer
for it i don't like pvp myself so im ok with it being separated.
Carboplatin
return of the paragons and watch yourself. woot!
Red Sonya
This is the leadup to GW2 and how it's going to work also I bet. I've always said they needed to separate pve from pvp. Now bring back unlimited minions and SR for the necro back to what they were before you nerfed them to hell. I want 30 minions again and unlimited energy gain. 
A. Noid
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Originally Posted by Jetdoc
The key is that it makes the learning curve steeper.
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Originally Posted by Jetdoc
I'm sorry, but I find it hard to swallow that we could claim that GW would be one of the first MMORPG's (or CORPG's) out there to achieve balance...by eliminating the need for balance. Seems like a cop out. |
-ANoid
Breakfast Mc Rit
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Originally Posted by HawkofStorms
QFT. This is a.net saying they give up on skill balancing and don't care if PvE is imbalanced.
The past couple updates have just been moronic. I'm done, I'm seriously taking a break for a few weeks. A.net has made it so PvE is no fun and not a challenge. PS. wasn't there a poll on guru suggesting this idea which had extremely NEGATIVE feedback? |
Tyla
This makes me cry at ANet.
As long as they change skills in PvE I'm not bothered, but right now the information seems misguiding to me.
@Breakfast Mc Rit -- That doesn't change that the enemies in PvE are absolutely stupid.
And Imbagon.
Sab's 3 Necro build is 3 hero slots though. Big difference to 1 skill, or 1 character.
As long as they change skills in PvE I'm not bothered, but right now the information seems misguiding to me.
@Breakfast Mc Rit -- That doesn't change that the enemies in PvE are absolutely stupid.
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Originally Posted by Vinraith
Nerf UB, nerf Sab's 3 necro build, let's make PvE halfway interesting again.
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Sab's 3 Necro build is 3 hero slots though. Big difference to 1 skill, or 1 character.
DarkNecrid
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Originally Posted by Breakfast Mc Rit
If you want a challenge don't enter groups that are using UB. People whine so much about not having a challenge in PvE. So gimp yourself and give yourself a challenge.
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Boogey Mancer
i dont care about ursan i only play with heroes and hencihes or with my alliance anyway so all of the people that win about ursan and other skills being overpowered for pve i dont see that happing cause im sure ANET will also give the monsters the PVE version of the skills.
Skye Marin
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Originally Posted by lyra_song
Good: this divides pvp and pve
Bad: this divides pvp and pve :/ |
If I read things correctly, it will only be values inside the skills that will be changed between PvP and PvE, so cost, cast, and recharge will all be consistent.
In either case, I do wonder about the place of buffs in all this. Imagine if the Discord scenario happened:
-Discord: 5/1/2 does damage to conditioned and hexed/enchanted foes
-Damage buffed to ~100
-Discord nerfed to 2 second casting time
Necrosis was added as a PvE only skill to make up for Discord, I believe, but for this to work in the PvE / PvP split, the casting time should be reduced to 1 second, the damage lowered for PvP, and the damage remain high for PvE.
What if Fragility goes back to 5 energy? Does PvE gain this benefit? What about skills with 'broken' functionality? Example: Wail of Doom.
ShadowbaneX
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Originally Posted by Abedeus
Actually, I can't comment this yet. Why? Wiki isn't loading... Why it's not on the Good GWWiki? :/
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As for this change I think it's both good and bad. I mainly just PvE and I have a feeling that soon all monks are going to be LoD spammers and, well, it's just gonna be cookie cutter central again...on the plus side, it might make some of the other skills useable again.
Mr. Undisclosed
Jeez, the guru community just disgusts me at times. The update hasn't even been implemented and people have already flocked to the forums to rant on and on about it. Give the update a chance before you already decide on your opinion.
Moloch Vein
In response to one or another trying for the cheap laugh at my above post.
If we are to move into balancing PvE and PvP separately, I sure would like to see them actually BALANCE it.
Soul Reaping is an example of a primary attribute the designers of the game have failed at balancing correctly for BOTH PvP and PvE. Asking for this to be looked over does NOT equal wanting a Win Button in PvE.
Soul Reaping does NOT need to be any stronger in PvE. OBVIOUSLY.
Ursan Blessing NEEDS to get nerfed. MAJORLY.
A few other PvE-only skills are also beyond ridiculous. SY!. GdW. TnTf. At this moment, we're at the stage in PvE where if you DON'T bring an SY! and a GdW in PvE if you have a chance... you're a sucker. It's as simple as that. I even have necromancers running SY! SIMPLY BECAUSE IT IS SO STRONG IN ANY SETUP. Oh, and the care-bears ALSO should use SY! on at least one character. OBVIOUSLY.
Take any party comprised of all human players, give them access to all PvE titles at max level, and ANY area is BEYOND easy. THAT is where the hammer should fall.
If we are to move into balancing PvE and PvP separately, I sure would like to see them actually BALANCE it.
Soul Reaping is an example of a primary attribute the designers of the game have failed at balancing correctly for BOTH PvP and PvE. Asking for this to be looked over does NOT equal wanting a Win Button in PvE.
Soul Reaping does NOT need to be any stronger in PvE. OBVIOUSLY.
Ursan Blessing NEEDS to get nerfed. MAJORLY.
A few other PvE-only skills are also beyond ridiculous. SY!. GdW. TnTf. At this moment, we're at the stage in PvE where if you DON'T bring an SY! and a GdW in PvE if you have a chance... you're a sucker. It's as simple as that. I even have necromancers running SY! SIMPLY BECAUSE IT IS SO STRONG IN ANY SETUP. Oh, and the care-bears ALSO should use SY! on at least one character. OBVIOUSLY.
Take any party comprised of all human players, give them access to all PvE titles at max level, and ANY area is BEYOND easy. THAT is where the hammer should fall.
cosyfiep
gee sometimes the wall does listen, but lets wait to see what exactly it heard before we jump to conclusions.
Rhaegor Stormborn
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Originally Posted by Breakfast Mc Rit
If you want a challenge don't enter groups that are using UB. People whine so much about not having a challenge in PvE. So gimp yourself and give yourself a challenge.
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Abedeus
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| Jeez, the guru community just disgusts me at times. The update hasn't even been implemented and people have already flocked to the forums to rant on and on about it. Give the update a chance before you already decide on your opinion. |
Antheus
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Originally Posted by Mr. Undisclosed
Jeez, the guru community just disgusts me at times. The update hasn't even been implemented and people have already flocked to the forums to rant on and on about it. Give the update a chance before you already decide on your opinion.
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Soul Reaping does NOT need to be any stronger in PvE. OBVIOUSLY. Ursan Blessing NEEDS to get nerfed. MAJORLY. |
Soul reaping will be reverted to what it was. Both of these will be joined by a whole new set of buffed skills. PvE players severely dislike nerfs, so they will henceforth receive only buffs.
Question: When was the last time a skill was nerfed because it was too unbalancing in PvE? Even including farming, the last PvE-based nerfs I can remember were Protective Bond and Spirit Bond.
Archaic
Go go revert Spirit Bond in PvE. 
Shiroken Farming, yay.
Operative 14
Sounds like they are doing exactly as suggested here, and I'm glad they are. This is a very nice update.
Granted, the skill balances never really affected me that much (Which makes me question if I'm using the wrong skills
).
Granted, the skill balances never really affected me that much (Which makes me question if I'm using the wrong skills
).
Red Sonya
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Originally Posted by Moloch Vein
In response to one or another trying for the cheap laugh at my above post.
If we are to move into balancing PvE and PvP separately, I sure would like to see them actually BALANCE it. Soul Reaping is an example of a primary attribute the designers of the game have failed at balancing correctly for BOTH PvP and PvE. Asking for this to be looked over does NOT equal wanting a Win Button in PvE. Soul Reaping does NOT need to be any stronger in PvE. OBVIOUSLY. Ursan Blessing NEEDS to get nerfed. MAJORLY. A few other PvE-only skills are also beyond ridiculous. SY!. GdW. TnTf. At this moment, we're at the stage in PvE where if you DON'T bring an SY! and a GdW in PvE if you have a chance... you're a sucker. It's as simple as that. I even have necromancers running SY! SIMPLY BECAUSE IT IS SO STRONG IN ANY SETUP. Oh, and the care-bears ALSO should use SY! on at least one character. OBVIOUSLY. Take any party comprised of all human players, give them access to all PvE titles at max level, and ANY area is BEYOND easy. THAT is where the hammer should fall. |
Thanks I knew you would listen Oh man I just had a thought Imagine PROTECTIVE BOND like it USED TO BE!!!!
SOLOing the UW again.
Moloch Vein
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Originally Posted by Antheus
UB has no effect on PvP, and as such is not subject to skill balancing.
Soul reaping will be reverted to what it was. Both of these will be joined by a whole new set of buffed skills. PvE players severely dislike nerfs, so they will henceforth receive only buffs. Question: When was the last time a skill was nerfed because it was too unbalancing in PvE? Even including farming, the last PvE-based nerfs I can remember were Protective Bond and Spirit Bond. |
Ursan Blessing HAS ALREADY seen a nerf, albeit a very minor one.
Several PvE-only skills have been nerfed from their original states. Elemental Lord. Seed Of Life. There's Nothing To Fear. Ursan Blessing. There are more.
As you mentioned, SOME all-around skills have been nerfed due to PvE concerns, Protective Bond being the most note-worthy (and well, that was ages ago.)
skanvak
NO
I first, I hoped it was a joke. But it seems to be rather official.
That is the end of GW. we are going to a total rift of the communauty that will no longer be able to talk to it self. This is the curse of babel. When a pve'r will speak of a skill, the pvp'er will think he is a noob that know nothing of the game and they will both get mad at each other because they will no longer speak the same language.
Very, very bad move.
Edit : THIS IS NOT SARCASM. I am very serious. That is really not what I am looking for. For me Pvp is just using the same interface against palyer, it must not be a different game.
I first, I hoped it was a joke. But it seems to be rather official.
That is the end of GW. we are going to a total rift of the communauty that will no longer be able to talk to it self. This is the curse of babel. When a pve'r will speak of a skill, the pvp'er will think he is a noob that know nothing of the game and they will both get mad at each other because they will no longer speak the same language.
Very, very bad move.
Edit : THIS IS NOT SARCASM. I am very serious. That is really not what I am looking for. For me Pvp is just using the same interface against palyer, it must not be a different game.
HawkofStorms
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Originally Posted by Antheus
Question: When was the last time a skill was nerfed because it was too unbalancing in PvE? Even including farming, the last PvE-based nerfs I can remember were Protective Bond and Spirit Bond.
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And the idiot PvE crowd whinned about nerfs. People like me who actually enjoy playing intellegent builds never did and enjoyed balance gameplay.
MithranArkanere
At last.
Well, at least we know that if this works correctly, they will use it in GW2.
One point up for ANet and higher hopes for GW2.
Now, what's left is to know why didn't they made so before:
- Because they couldn't...?
- Because they didn't wanted to...?
- Because they had no time for that...?
Well... it doesn't really matter... but if they buff up again skills in PvE, maybe we'll see the Ursan reduced to just another gimmick, a last resort when you don't have anything suitable for the area, and not used all over the place and practially forgetting about purchasing skills as many people tent to do nowadays.
Well, at least we know that if this works correctly, they will use it in GW2.
One point up for ANet and higher hopes for GW2.
Now, what's left is to know why didn't they made so before:
- Because they couldn't...?
- Because they didn't wanted to...?
- Because they had no time for that...?
Well... it doesn't really matter... but if they buff up again skills in PvE, maybe we'll see the Ursan reduced to just another gimmick, a last resort when you don't have anything suitable for the area, and not used all over the place and practially forgetting about purchasing skills as many people tent to do nowadays.
DarkNecrid
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| As you mentioned, SOME all-around skills have been nerfed due to PvE concerns, Protective Bond being the most note-worthy (and well, that was ages ago.) |
Tyla
Skanvak, I hope some of that was sarcasm.
It won't kill Guild Wars, and people should understand that skills have been seperated.
It won't kill Guild Wars, and people should understand that skills have been seperated.
Red Sonya
No this is a great move now the pvper can stay in his/her own forums and discuss the pvp nerfs/buffs and no longer will we have to listen to the elitism that pvp rules all balance in the game. Finally separation of the two is here and I couldn't be happier.
HawkofStorms
Question, if you are in your Guild Hall (since it is the staging area for GvG) will you see the PvP version of the skills? Because that could be a problem since so many people meet at their GH to ferry to some PvE location.