I dont post much here but this is something i simply must voice my opinion on. I guess i could sum my thoughts on this in one sentence:
What a load of crap... but i ll elaborate:
Me being one of the PVEPers i think this is the stupidest possible option handling all the QQing whiners that just cant live with the fact that something was nerfed. PVP needs balance, its what drives it forward, its what makes it fun and interesting. PVE can be done with a simple adjustment of your build or by using one of the other 1000 skills available to you. And not to mention the fact you have PVE skills, that make PVE laughably easy and no i m not talking about only ursan here. I m not even gonna mention consumables.
What do you want? You want PVE balance? There is no such thing! There is no way to balance 3 continents 100s of areas, 1000s of different mobs, their lvls and everything else. You can either take the easy way with ursan, the normal way with H/H or the hard way with a PUG.
So what s the damn point?
I d be fine if they simply took 1/4 or so skills and made them PVE only or made new PVE skills but this PVE/PVP separation is a load of shit. Its the worst possible scenario where now a skill can have 2 different effects/costs and every time you go from PVE to PVP or vice versa you need to keep in mind your skills arent the same again. Confusing for both newbies and vets, stupid and pointless.
[Dev Update] Skill Balancing PvE and PvP Seperately - 09 May 2008
SonicTHI
Moloch Vein
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Originally Posted by DarkNecrid
Actually, Protective Bond was nerfed because it crashed the servers.
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snaek
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Originally Posted by skanvak
NO
I first, I hoped it was a joke. But it seems to be rather official. That is the end of GW. we are going to a total rift of the commauty that will no longer be able to talk to it self. This is the curse of babel. When a pve'r will speak of a skill, the pvp'er will think he is a noob that know nothing of the game and they will both get mad at each other because they will no longer speak the same language. Very, very bad move. |
the tru pro's must now be knowledgeable in both pvp and pve skills
any pvp'r who disses a pve'r due to pvp/pve skill differences will now jus be a scrub
if anything, a pve'r will now be able to diss a pvp'r for knowin more bout pve skills than he does...
but inorder for someone to truly diss someone, u have be to knowledgeable in both pve -and- pvp, or u fail
i really dun get y more ppl arent excited bout this
we r essentially gettin 500+ new skills to play with
a much needed rejuvination
legacyofkain85
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Originally Posted by Richardt
I wonder what skills they're going to revert....I doubt we'd see many skills returned to their original form, but I'm curious as to what they'll fix.
This could be pretty exciting. |
slowerpoke
interesting change
i think it'll be better for pvp than pve
now they can change skills without worrying about the impact on the other side of things
get ready for the nerfs lololol
i think it'll be better for pvp than pve
now they can change skills without worrying about the impact on the other side of things
get ready for the nerfs lololol
DarkNecrid
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Originally Posted by Moloch Vein
If that's true I stand corrected, I seem to remember someone saying something about that before.
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It's currently impossible to do this now.
Tyla
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Originally Posted by Red Sonya
No this is a great move now the pvper can stay in his/her own forums and discuss the pvp nerfs/buffs and no longer will we have to listen to the elitism that pvp rules all balance in the game. Finally separation of the two is here and I couldn't be happier.
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I know this, because where else did people get big weapons and armour from in PvP? Observe GvG, you'll see.
And although I don't play serious PvP as much anymore, I used to be someone who played both forms of play.
legacyofkain85
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Originally Posted by Alexandra-Sweet
So... there's a chance Mending will be buffed so it's useful in PvE and not "overpowered" in PvP?
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sph0nz
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Originally Posted by Mr. Undisclosed
Jeez, the guru community just disgusts me at times. The update hasn't even been implemented and people have already flocked to the forums to rant on and on about it. Give the update a chance before you already decide on your opinion.
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Also, the community has seperated skills for pvp and pve since the beginning; so this update doesn't seem very different than that or the addition of pve-only skills. We don't know what will happen, but hopefully people will stop crying over skill balances.
DarkNecrid
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| Alot of PvP'ers PvE. |
fix'd.
yes, if you look at any guild around from the Prophecies times, you will see tons of people in 15k, tormented shields with super rare crap, because back then everyone was forced to (no Balth system). That and it's a nice diversion.
Fistandantilus_12
Interesting change....All I see happening is PvE is going to get easier....but its not like it was really that hard to begin with. If anything, this change is really late, they should have done this instead of the PvE skills or something. Would have saved them some time, if anything i think.
Moloch Vein
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Originally Posted by Red Sonya
No this is a great move now the pvper can stay in his/her own forums and discuss the pvp nerfs/buffs and no longer will we have to listen to the elitism that pvp rules all balance in the game. Finally separation of the two is here and I couldn't be happier.
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I'd like to hear your thoughts on this, I can't really tell if you're being sarcastic or not.
Do you think that:
1: Nothing in this game, PvE-wise, should be a challenge?
2: Anything that presents a challenge should be easily circumvented by purchasable or craftable upgrades?
This is where we're at with the present state of affairs. The real culprit here is Ursan Blessing, which has even removed the need for 95% of all Guild Wars players to create a working build, or even copy one.
SY! and the rest are still crazy skills, but at least they require you to 1: Put them on the bar, 2: Bring skills complementing your Super Elites in a reasonable way.
Ctb
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| Having different skills sets puts up too clear a barrier between the two for me personally. |
Zinger314
I can't believe it took this long.
legacyofkain85
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Originally Posted by HawkofStorms
A.net has made it so PvE is no fun and not a challenge.
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Lord Natural
2005 is excited about this update.
Jenn
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Originally Posted by Jetdoc
No, it's terrible that people that have experienced primarily only one aspect of the game have yet another reason not to experience the other side of the game. It's just another barrier to overcome in a divide that already is difficult to bridge.
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Eventually, I started doing PvP with my guild, and it was very successful, and I continued with it for a while. When I decided to branch outside of my guild, though, I was met by the same attitudes I once knew I didn't want to have anything to do with. To me it's such a joke listening to some 16 year old kid whose balls have yet to drop give orders over vent and cuss more than a sailor. A good chunk of the players in PvP are just... immature, in many facets.
Some people just want to relax in this game - skill disparity does not have a lot to do with it. Others simply became interested at a late point in this game where trying to learn to PvP is basically pointless. And I really don't think people will react like this, "OMG guys, we can kill stuff so fast. NOW WE NEVER HAVE TO PVP!!!" which is the impression I'm getting off you - that's how you think people will react.
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On an entirely different note, I think I would rather have this "separatist" system in the game then have PvE skills introduced. I think people would have to think more, play a bit harder, but it's still not the mindless ease that is Ursan.
DarkNecrid
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| To me it's such a joke listening to some 16 year old kid whose balls have yet to drop give orders over vent |
legacyofkain85
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Originally Posted by DarkNecrid
Skill Update - Friday May 09, 2008
Monk: *Protective Spirit: Now costs 25 energy, takes 3 seconds to cast, has a recharge time of 30s. Functionality changed to: "For 1...5 seconds, target ally gains +0...0 Health Regeneration." Ursan: *Halved the recharges of all skills, doubled the damage, knockdowns last 4 seconds, hexes/conditions have their durations halved. imo |
snaek
i think it should be a requirement that if u oppose this change,
to list whether u:
- pve
- pvp
- pvx
-__-'
btw...does anyone here save a skill template named like "toxic chill build - pve or pvp"
if u dun use the same builds in pve that u do in pvp,
is there a reason y u cant have pve and pvp skills seperate?
to list whether u:
- pve
- pvp
- pvx
-__-'
btw...does anyone here save a skill template named like "toxic chill build - pve or pvp"
if u dun use the same builds in pve that u do in pvp,
is there a reason y u cant have pve and pvp skills seperate?
legacyofkain85
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Originally Posted by FoxBat
Minion Mancers are still grossly overpowered and have been from day 1. The AI priotizes the decoys and just falls over to them. Only Save Yourselves! and Ursan provide comparable stupid levels of defense. |
makosi
This is a great thing. They're dealing with the age-old issue in a convenient way.
I was always skeptical about having a full set of the same PvP and PvE skills with different numbers because it would be bothersome to remember them all. This method is the happy medium.
I was always skeptical about having a full set of the same PvP and PvE skills with different numbers because it would be bothersome to remember them all. This method is the happy medium.
Mewcatus
To satisfy the various groups, how doing this ?
In PvE, players can CHOOSE to set their skills according to the PvE sets OR the PvP sets.
This way, people who complain that PvE sets not tying in to PvP sets can choose to do so, for another of the reasons any of the posters chose stating against it.
Thus:
1. Pure PvErs gain in having an easier game, and can try more outrageous / crazy builds, without fear of nerfs in skills due to PvP concerns.
2. Mix PvE/PvPers can "train" the way in PvE and do WHAT they want,
3. Pure PvPers can whine and change the skill sets ACCORDINGLY to what they deem fit to Anet
THIS satifies ALL sides. The only ones who WILL complain now, is those that WISHES to control how another player should plays the game. ( You know who you are )
FAIR ?
This is about the fairest way as can be, as ALL players can play the way they choose. This is WHAT gaming is ALL about.
P.S Revert Splinter Shot back to his uber days in PvE please, makes it a godly skill again, hehe
In PvE, players can CHOOSE to set their skills according to the PvE sets OR the PvP sets.
This way, people who complain that PvE sets not tying in to PvP sets can choose to do so, for another of the reasons any of the posters chose stating against it.
Thus:
1. Pure PvErs gain in having an easier game, and can try more outrageous / crazy builds, without fear of nerfs in skills due to PvP concerns.
2. Mix PvE/PvPers can "train" the way in PvE and do WHAT they want,
3. Pure PvPers can whine and change the skill sets ACCORDINGLY to what they deem fit to Anet
THIS satifies ALL sides. The only ones who WILL complain now, is those that WISHES to control how another player should plays the game. ( You know who you are )
FAIR ?
This is about the fairest way as can be, as ALL players can play the way they choose. This is WHAT gaming is ALL about.
P.S Revert Splinter Shot back to his uber days in PvE please, makes it a godly skill again, hehe
legacyofkain85
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Originally Posted by Antheus
This update has been in the game since GW:EN launched. How positive was the effect on PvE?
UB has no effect on PvP, and as such is not subject to skill balancing. Soul reaping will be reverted to what it was. Both of these will be joined by a whole new set of buffed skills. PvE players severely dislike nerfs, so they will henceforth receive only buffs. Question: When was the last time a skill was nerfed because it was too unbalancing in PvE? Even including farming, the last PvE-based nerfs I can remember were Protective Bond and Spirit Bond. |
puffzilla
Let the minions floooooooow This should be interesting.
This should be interesting.
AOD_EaSyKiLL
I laugh at all the whiners claiming anything PvE related is over-powered.
Unless you are a Raptor Nestling, Mountain Troll, Snowman, or any of the other poor pitiful noobs getting ganked by the uber 1337 PvE'rs, you have no feet to stand on.
Unless you are a Raptor Nestling, Mountain Troll, Snowman, or any of the other poor pitiful noobs getting ganked by the uber 1337 PvE'rs, you have no feet to stand on.
HawkofStorms
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Originally Posted by Mewcatus
To satisfy the various groups, how doing this ?
In PvE, players can CHOOSE to set their skills according to the PvE sets OR the PvP sets. This way, people who complain that PvE sets not tying in to PvP sets can choose to do so, for another of the reasons any of the posters chose state against it. Thus: 1. Pure PvErs gain in having an easier game, and can try more outrageous / crazy builds, without fear of nerfs in skills due to PvP concerns. 2. Mix PvE/PvPers can "train" the way in PvE and do WHAT they want, 3. Pure PvPers can whine and change the skill sets ACCORDINGLY to what they deem fit. THIS satifies ALL sides. The only ones who WILL complain now, is those that WISHES to control how another player should plays the game. ( You know who you are ) FAIR ? This is about the fairest way as can be, as ALL players can play the way they choose. This is WHAT gaming is ALL about. P.S Revert Splinter Shot back to his uber days in PvE please, makes it a godly skill again, hehe |
Edit: EoE nerf was more to stop the PvP gimmick of Edge Bomb.
Chthon
1. Since you're going to do this, REMOVE THE DAMN TIMER FROM SOUL REAPING FOR PVE.
2. Moloch beat me to it:
3. No, I'm not kidding. REMOVE THE DAMN TIMER FROM SOUL REAPING FOR PVE. Let me expand on that a little more:
4. I am truly surprised. I had long since given up hope that any effort was going to be put into fixing GW's fundamental flaw.
5. Is this a good thing? Time will tell. My instincts tell me that this will be good for PvE, and PvP has already degenerated so far that nothing a-net could do would save it. I hear those saying that PvE will be ignored even more after the split, and I fear they may have a point, but for now I'm going to try to remain optimistic.
6. @DarkNecrid:
7.
I wouldn't quite go that far. But I would say that a good implementation of this split, followed by a real commitment to fixing what's broken in PvE (starting with Soul Reaping) would be enough to put me back in the boat.
2. Moloch beat me to it:
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Originally Posted by Moloch Vein
Now please make separate PvP and PvE versions of the Soul Reaping primary attribute.
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- The timer is clunky, and ugly, and it punishes the player for playing well, and it randomizes something which ought to be predictable (which completely removes the possibly of playing at a skill level that plans for and "manages" available energy), and it conflicts badly with other mechanics like the minion cap and the intended synergy between Soul Reaping and corpse-exploitation skills. Removing the timer isn't about making SR more powerful; it's about fixing those problems and conflicts.
- Soul Reaping is horrifically underpowered in PvP. Splitting the attribute into PvE and PvP versions makes it possible to totally rework PvP-SR into a worthwhile attribute in PvP, even if that means making it into something that would suck in PvE.
4. I am truly surprised. I had long since given up hope that any effort was going to be put into fixing GW's fundamental flaw.
5. Is this a good thing? Time will tell. My instincts tell me that this will be good for PvE, and PvP has already degenerated so far that nothing a-net could do would save it. I hear those saying that PvE will be ignored even more after the split, and I fear they may have a point, but for now I'm going to try to remain optimistic.
6. @DarkNecrid:
- You are exhibiting stereotypical PvPer arrogance here. A decent PvE player is just as capable of memorizing the split skills as you are. It's insulting for you to imply they can't. What's lacking is any desire to play PvP at all in the first place.
- I think the PvEers just getting into PvP that you describe don't really exist. At least not very many of them. Most PvEers who have even the slightest interest in PvP have already tried it.
- If we want to get into why PvEers don't migrate to PvP, I'd say the number one reason is the intolerable assholery that permeates PvP. The environment is simply toxic. Sane people do not enjoy insurmountable rank discrimination and being called ten thousand variations on "noob" each minute. Compared to that, any disincentive posed by having to learn a few extra skills is negligible.
7.
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Originally Posted by Kashrlyyk
If the implementation is good, this change would singlehandedly put me back in the boat for GW2.
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Sleeper Service
oh wow.
now 7 heroes.
hurry, before the Energy War breaks out for real.
Chton you forgot pet corpses.
now 7 heroes.
hurry, before the Energy War breaks out for real.
Chton you forgot pet corpses.
legacyofkain85
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Originally Posted by MithranArkanere
At last.
Well, at least we know that if this works correctly, they will use it in GW2. One point up for ANet and higher hopes for GW2. Now, what's left is to know why didn't they made so before: - Because they couldn't...? - Because they didn't wanted to...? - Because they had no time for that...? Well... it doesn't really matter... but if they buff up again skills in PvE, maybe we'll see the Ursan reduced to just another gimmick, a last resort when you don't have anything suitable for the area, and not used all over the place and practially forgetting about purchasing skills as many people tent to do nowadays. |
Mewcatus
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Originally Posted by HawkofStorms
And what are you suppossed to do when partying with other players? You think your guildmates will want you running a subpar build? They will force you to change to whichever side gives the advantage.
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Leaving the Option is to satisfy ALL sides. PLEASE do NOT dictate HOW I should play the game.
skanvak
Why people can't see that it is the worst move ever possible? I was looking for a world to explore, to fight in (both against real people and AI) for thing at stake in this virtual world.
What is left is a shattered game, both part would lay crippled because lacking the other... I really cannot understand all the people applauding about it.
First the group seperate, then they go to war against each other. Seperation is never good, it will only lead to more distrust between the 2 communauty.
And for last : I am looking for a bit of REALISM (verisimilitude) in MMORPG. And that update will definetly killed it. (I should say that I think that there should be no pve only skill).
What is left is a shattered game, both part would lay crippled because lacking the other... I really cannot understand all the people applauding about it.
First the group seperate, then they go to war against each other. Seperation is never good, it will only lead to more distrust between the 2 communauty.
And for last : I am looking for a bit of REALISM (verisimilitude) in MMORPG. And that update will definetly killed it. (I should say that I think that there should be no pve only skill).
Tyla
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Originally Posted by Mewcatus
Thus:
1. Pure PvErs gain in having an easier game, and can try more outrageous / crazy builds, without fear of nerfs in skills due to PvP concerns. |
Quote:
| 2. Mix PvE/PvPers can "train" the way in PvE and do WHAT they want |
Quote:
| THIS satifies ALL sides. The only ones who WILL complain now, is those that WISHES to control how another player should plays the game. ( You know who you are ) |
Quote:
| HEY ! This is between YOU and YOUR Guild mates ! YOU / YOUR Guild mates CAN choose to gimp or pump the skills sets for whatever PvE difficulty you deem fit. |
Star Gazer
oh shit, say bye bye to the 55s 
zwei2stein
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Originally Posted by legacyofkain85
edge of extinction?
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HawkofStorms
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Originally Posted by Mewcatus
HEY ! This is between YOU and YOUR Guild mates ! YOU / YOUR Guild mates CAN choose to gimp or pump the skills sets for whatever PvE difficulty you deem fit.
Leaving the Option is to satisfy ALL sides. PLEASE do NOT dictate HOW I should play the game. |
DarkNecrid
Quote:
| Soul Reaping is horrifically underpowered in PvP. Splitting the attribute into PvE and PvP versions makes it possible to totally rework PvP-SR into a worthwhile attribute in PvP, even if that means making it into something that would suck in PvE. |
You're kidding, right? N/Rt doesn't need a buff ok.
Quote:
| You are exhibiting stereotypical PvPer arrogance here. A decent PvE player is just as capable of memorizing the split skills as you are. It's insulting for you to imply they can't. What's lacking is any desire to play PvP at all in the first place. |
Quote:
| If we want to get into why PvEers don't migrate to PvP, I'd say the number one reason is the intolerable assholery that permeates PvP. The environment is simply toxic. Sane people do not enjoy insurmountable rank discrimination and being called ten thousand variations on "noob" each minute. Compared to that, any disincentive posed by having to learn a few extra skills is negligible. |
If people on the internet on an online game can make you that revolted, I really wonder how you make it out there in the real world.
Vinraith
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Originally Posted by Star Gazer
oh shit, say bye bye to the 55s
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Just so you know Anet, if you un-nerf a bunch of PvE skills and make this game even more trivially easy than it is now, you've not only lost a GW player, you've lost a potential GW2 customer.
Pandora's box
A wise decision! Most PvE players have no intention to play PvP, and this takes the sting out of nerfing. Maybe some PvE players who like to join PvP will be confused at first, but their guildmates will most certainly help them out. Thumbs up! 
Kashrlyyk
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Originally Posted by Lord Natural
2005 is excited about this update.
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