3-Necro HM Build
ryu_okunato
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkSpirit
[Curse necro;OAhkUoG4BGqTMrMgIsD7uhp0kaD]
[MM;OANEUshd95EzqCohqa9IgY02JA]
[Splinter necro;OAhkUoGYIKqTMTNgxGmSzq64M5C] two questions:
1. are those builds with or without hexes
2. for the mm one can u replace the rez with another one
DarkSpirit
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Originally Posted by ryu_okunato
1. are those builds with or without hexes
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Is somebody asking for more screenshots and videos? I love making screenshots and videos.|
2. for the mm one can u replace the rez with another one
Yes, rez is usually optional and not crucial to the build.
ryu_okunato
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkSpirit
Isn't the curse necro bringing 2 hexes?
big typo i meant runes 
DarkSpirit
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryu_okunato
big typo i meant runes
Those builds are just the template strings so they are base attributes. The runes should be easy to figure out.Actually now I am using this for some of my physical characters: [build prof=Ne/Ri name="Discord Disease Life" Sou=8+1 Dea=10+1+1 Res=12][Discord][Rotting Flesh][Protective Was Kaolai][Spirit Light][Mend Body and Soul][Foul Feast][Life][Death Pact Signet][/build] [build prof=Ne/Mo name="Discord MM Protect" Sou=8+1 Dea=12+3+1 Hea=5 Pro=9][Discord][Animate Bone Minions][Death Nova][Signet of Lost Souls][Protective Spirit][Aegis][Dwaynas Sorrow][Vengeance][/build] [build prof=Ne/Ri name="Discord Curse Splinter" Sou=8+1 Cur=8+1 Dea=10+1+1 Cha=10 Res=2][Discord][Barbs][Shadow of Fear][Enfeebling Blood][Rip Enchantment][Defile Defenses][Splinter Weapon][Signet of Lost Souls][/build] This becomes more sabway-like in its configuration. On my caster characters with mostly casters in the team, I can replace the "Discord Curse Splinter" necro with: [build prof=Ne/Ri name="Discord Curse Recovery" Sou=8+1 Cur=8+1 Dea=10+1+1 Res=10][Discord][Barbs][Shadow of Fear][Enfeebling Blood][Rip Enchantment][Protective Was Kaolai][Mend Body and Soul][Recovery][/build]
ScorpiusX
I've used Sabway with my Ranger with BHA-Epidemic and got to say I like it. Liked it so much I'm going to give it a try with my Necro (I don't have Discord yet so Discordway is not an option atm), I have a couple of questions though:
1) I have grown extremely bored with SS, MM and cant stand being a healer, so would using my Necro as a FoC Spiker work with the 3 basic Sabway Necros? 2) Before I tried Sabway whenever I used a hero for a minion bomber I tended to use a Rt/N Explosive Growth Minion Bomber using Jagged Bones. I know that a Rt/ MB has less minions of lower level than a N/ MB, and I'll have to compensate for PS and Aegis (protection monk henchy?). Would this be a viable alternative? Thx ScorpiusX S U P R E M E
yo ive tried to check for the answer and blatantly missed it, or just cant search the right thing in search option...
anyhoo just wonderin do u put all 3 heroes on guard or do u have one on attack one on guard and one on avoid combat or whatever. also does it matter whether livia is the MM or does it have to be olias or master of whispers :O if u get what i mean does 1 character perform better at 1 task than another  THANKS
Showtime
Quote:
Originally Posted by S U P R E M E
yo ive tried to check for the answer and blatantly missed it, or just cant search the right thing in search option...
anyhoo just wonderin do u put all 3 heroes on guard or do u have one on attack one on guard and one on avoid combat or whatever. also does it matter whether livia is the MM or does it have to be olias or master of whispers :O if u get what i mean does 1 character perform better at 1 task than another THANKS Depends on skills. I usually set them all on guard. When there is no direct attacks like say an MM with some prot skills, I set to avoid. Since it's better for them to build minions and use skills than to wand stuff. It doesn't matter who is what from what I've seen. Just make sure you have the right runes and weapons for the job. S U P R E M E
thanks for the quick reply
 and sorry why is discord used instead of necrosis :O Molock
Quote:
Originally Posted by S U P R E M E
thanks for the quick reply
and sorry why is discord used instead of necrosis :O Heroes can't use PvE only skills. The next best thing is thus Discord. If we are talking about a entire player group clearly necrosis is better. S U P R E M E
thanks again, im dumb
Paul Dawg
I wish I understood what you were talking about. As long as adrenal skills aren't being shut down, warriors can spam SY as often as necessary.
Originally Posted by DarkSpirit
And paragons can be shut down too. No shouts = no energy. Quote: And SY on warrior is hardly godmode compared to an Imbagon, since warriors have a greater dependence on adrenaline so they cant spam SY as often.
DarkSpirit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Dawg
I wish I understood what you were talking about. As long as adrenal skills aren't being shut down, warriors can spam SY as often as necessary.
And paragons can be shut down too. No shouts = no energy. Let me take the so-called godmode DSlash build as an example. Sure you gain 10 strikes of adrenaline when you DSlash with FGJ to recharge DSlash again. You can either use DSlash over and over or take 8 strikes to cast SY! and help out your team. If you use SY! you break your DSlash chain and have to wait awhile for your adrenaline to build up again. Compare that to an Imbagon who can chain spam SY! while attacking with FGJ and AR. It depends on your build, but typically a paragon can chain SY better than a warrior. A good paragon build has a balance of adrenaline and energy skills. The adrenaline skills power the energy skills which helps to recharge adrenaline in return. A warrior doesn't have that elegance, so they have to choose between DSlash chaining and SY!. Furthermore, Paragons have Focused Anger to cover FGJ downtime, a warrior doesn't, even with Enduring Harmony they have to deal with a 15s downtime for FGJ. oFooBaro
Code:
N/Rt Healer
Insignias: Tormenter's or Survivor's on all.
Equipment: 20/20 Resto wand, 20/20 Resto offhand.
It is optimal to have an 40/40-set when the ashes will be the most time in the hands?
ryu_okunato
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkSpirit
Sure you gain 10 strikes of adrenaline when you DSlash with FGJ to recharge DSlash again. You can either use DSlash over and over or take 8 strikes to cast SY! and help out your team. If you use SY! you break your DSlash chain and have to wait awhile for your adrenaline to build up again.
not really when u use dragon slash wit FGJ on u get the 10 adrenaline so ur already full, so if u use SY u only have to hit one more time to use dragon slash again
gw_poster
sab, hopefully you read this far into this string, cuz I want to say THANKS! I've finally gotten around to grinding my titles (vanquishing/carto/guardian) and the 3-necro team has proven to be indispensable and has come through time and again. I run a BHA with pain inverter and a couple other disruptions and i haven't seen dp in awhile. It's kinda funny when I try to form a mission group (owning with h/h gets a little lonesome sometimes) and people say, "why 3 necros - where's ur monk??"...I just say "trust me", and by the end of the mission they are converted wanting the builds lol. Anyway, ty again for making HM cakewalk stylie...
-Lotus-
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Originally Posted by ryu_okunato
not really when u use dragon slash wit FGJ on u get the 10 adrenaline so ur already full, so if u use SY u only have to hit one more time to use dragon slash again
dont bother, he dosnt get it.
the only reason a warrior would have a problem maintaining SY would be targets blocking/blind/kiting.
DarkSpirit
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Originally Posted by ryu_okunato
not really when u use dragon slash wit FGJ on u get the 10 adrenaline so ur already full, so if u use SY u only have to hit one more time to use dragon slash again
Even so, there will be more downtime compared to a Paragon because you have to melee and there are times when you have to chase that enemy. You also need to use that DSlash+Headbutt+Steelfang combination during that 15s FGJ downtime.
Not saying it is a bad build, I use it myself, but it is just harder to maintain your SY with it than to use a Paragon. -Lotus-
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkSpirit
Not saying it is a bad build, I use it myself, but it is just harder to maintain your SY with it than to use a Paragon.
maybe slightly, but only because of range issues. Dslash is a better adren engine if targets would just stand still and not die
ALF71BE
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkSpirit
Let me take the so-called godmode DSlash build as an example. Sure you gain 10 strikes of adrenaline when you DSlash with FGJ to recharge DSlash again. You can either use DSlash over and over or take 8 strikes to cast SY! and help out your team. If you use SY! you break your DSlash chain and have to wait awhile for your adrenaline to build up again.
I lol'd.
Start playing something that uses adrenaline please.
DarkSpirit
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Originally Posted by ALF71BE
I lol'd.
Start playing something that uses adrenaline please. lol! That's right, DSlash doesn't use adrenaline.
-Lotus-
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Originally Posted by DarkSpirit
lol! That's right, DSlash doesn't use adrenaline.
no, no. they do. hes just pointing out that youve never played one as you dont understand how adrenaline works
ryu_okunato
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkSpirit
that DSlash+Headbutt+Steelfang combination
isn't tat impossible to use since steelfang doesn't gain adrenaline from itself anymore thanks to the recharge?
DarkSpirit
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Originally Posted by -Lotus-
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Originally Posted by ryu_okunato
isn't tat impossible to use since steelfang doesn't gain adrenaline from itself anymore thanks to the recharge?
It still works for me sometimes, if I am patient enough to wait for it to recharge first before DSlashing.
But I agree it is more clunky after the nerf, sometimes I have it fully recharged, the monster died, and DSlash and Headbutt greyed out. Thus, more problem to SY! during the 15s FGJ downtime.
Paul Dawg
That's just wrong. SY does not bring you back to zero adrenaline.
Originally Posted by DarkSpirit
Sounds like you've never actually played a DSlash build. Quote: Let me take the so-called godmode DSlash build as an example. Sure you gain 10 strikes of adrenaline when you DSlash with FGJ to recharge DSlash again. You can either use DSlash over and over or take 8 strikes to cast SY! and help out your team. If you use SY! you break your DSlash chain and have to wait awhile for your adrenaline to build up again.
DarkSpirit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Dawg
That's just wrong. SY does not bring you back to zero adrenaline.
What are you talking about? Why would it bring you back to zero adrenaline? I think you are confused regarding the build.
Arkantos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Dawg
I wish I understood what you were talking about. As long as adrenal skills aren't being shut down, warriors can spam SY as often as necessary.
And paragons can be shut down too. No shouts = no energy. Warriors can't spam SY as much as paragons can. Paragons are ranged, so they can target switch faster. If one of their attacks gets blocked, it's not a big deal. If a warriors dragon slash gets blocked, you'll be waiting awhile for SY to go back up. It's very hard for a paragon to run out of energy, unless they're getting hit hard with constant energy denial. In PvE, there's very little energy denial. ryu_okunato
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkSpirit
It still works for me sometimes, if I am patient enough to wait for it to recharge first before DSlashing. But I agree it is more clunky after the nerf, sometimes I have it fully recharged, the monster died, and DSlash and Headbutt greyed out. Thus, more problem to SY! during the 15s FGJ downtime.
i'm not talking about waiting for dragon slash, i'm talking about how steelfang used to get adrenaline from itself and now it doesn't(because u can't get adrenaline for a recharging skill)
DarkSpirit
Arkantos is right. And lets not forget the 15s FGJ downtime, which Paragons can use Focused Anger to cover.
Originally Posted by ryu_okunato
All I am saying is, it is much easier for a Paragon to keep up the SY! spam than it is for Warriors. Quote: i'm not talking about waiting for dragon slash, i'm talking about how steelfang used to get adrenaline from itself and now it doesn't(because u can't get adrenaline for a recharging skill)
Agree, steelfang is not that useful anymore, but it still triggers often enough. I think the point of the nerf is to make it harder to keep a target knocked down consecutively outside of FGJ. Sometimes I even replace steelfang with another skill since it is not that useful anymore.
Teutonic Paladin
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkSpirit
What are you talking about? Why would it bring you back to zero adrenaline? I think you are confused regarding the build.
I think you mistyped, or are actually an idiot. Unless "wait awhile" is equivalent to wait less than a second.
DarkSpirit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teutonic Paladin
I think you mistyped, or are actually an idiot. Unless "wait awhile" is equivalent to wait less than a second.
How can it take less than a second when the attack speed of a sword already takes 1.33s to make a hit, without IAS on? Read your own posts before you flame.
 No matter how you view it, it still breaks your attack chain to keep up SY spamming as well as a Paragon, if the monster runs, blocks, blinds, since it can take more time to switch to a further target when you melee compared to ranged. And we have gone OT on sab's thread. Teutonic Paladin
I generally assume that people aren't idiots and are in an IAS virtually all the time.
DarkSpirit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teutonic Paladin
I generally assume that people aren't idiots and are in an IAS virtually all the time.
And I assume that people aren't idiots to use IAS all the time but to use enraging charge before enaging a mob.
Seriously, if FGJ is down, you are not going to recharge Dslash in less than a second after SY anyway no matter how you try to justify it with IAS or not, so you still can't spam SY as much as the Paragons. If FGJ is up, you still take 1 swing to activate DSlash and another swing for DSlash to hit, so effectively, it still takes more than a second even with IAS but that would be splitting hairs. Teutonic Paladin
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkSpirit
And I assume that people aren't idiots to use IAS all the time but to use enraging charge before enaging a mob.
Seriously, if FGJ is down, you are not going to recharge Dslash in less than a second after SY anyway no matter how you try to justify it with IAS or not, so you still can't spam SY as much as the Paragons. If FGJ is up, you still take 1 swing to activate DSlash and another swing for DSlash to hit, so effectively, it still takes more than a second even with IAS. Except with even a 3s SY you can Enraging -> Dragon Slash -> SY -> Flail -> Dragon Slash with no downtime. Everything you say is talking about when FGJ is down, but 30 seconds into the battle, if the majority of threats haven't already been eliminated, you're either being wiped or aren't doing enough damage.
DarkSpirit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teutonic Paladin
Except with even a 3s SY you can Enraging -> Dragon Slash -> SY -> Flail -> Dragon Slash with no downtime. Everything you say is talking about when FGJ is down, but 30 seconds into the battle, if the majority of threats haven't already been eliminated, you're either being wiped or aren't doing enough damage.
Unfortunately, not every mob dies in 30s in HM, especially mobs with bosses and NM is not even worth talking about.
15s out of a recharge of 45s means one third of the time, you are without FGJ. FGJ downtime is the most obvious issue to talk about since without FGJ, your ability to spam SY is hampered, otherwise there is also the fact that you need to chase down monsters sometimes or block or blind. It still takes longer to switch target as a melee compared to ranged, in general. Paul Dawg
YOU said that after doing SY, you can't do DSlash right away, but "have to wait for adrenaline to build up again." Here, I'll quote you again:
Let me take the so-called godmode DSlash build as an example. Sure you gain 10 strikes of adrenaline when you DSlash with FGJ to recharge DSlash again. You can either use DSlash over and over or take 8 strikes to cast SY! and help out your team. If you use SY! you break your DSlash chain and have to wait awhile for your adrenaline to build up again.
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What are you talking about? Why would it bring you back to zero adrenaline? I think you are confused regarding the build.
Fragile Feeling
OK, so getting back on topic about necros here, there are a few questions I have about the discord heroes:
1. I am a monk, should I be ursaning or healing? And if I do decide to heal, what skills should I replace the the last necro's healing skills with? (not the mm or the curser).
2. What are the best weapons to be using on the discord heroes? Right now all I have is "The Nightbringer" for the MM hero.
3. Which insignias should I be using on all 3 necros?
Thx
~Fragile
1. I am a monk, should I be ursaning or healing? And if I do decide to heal, what skills should I replace the the last necro's healing skills with? (not the mm or the curser).
2. What are the best weapons to be using on the discord heroes? Right now all I have is "The Nightbringer" for the MM hero.
3. Which insignias should I be using on all 3 necros?
Thx
~Fragile
DarkSpirit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Dawg
YOU said that after doing SY, you can't do DSlash right away, but "have to wait for adrenaline to build up again." Here, I'll quote you again:
And that is still true during FGJ downtime so maybe I should have qualify it so you will be happier and less argumentative? Can we get back on topic now or do you intend to persist on DSlash discussion that has nothing to do with Sab's build on her thread for the next few pages.
If you still want to continue to argue, you can PM me, I would hate to destroy Sab's stickied thread over this.
If you still want to continue to argue, you can PM me, I would hate to destroy Sab's stickied thread over this.
TheOrangeFalcon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragile Feeling
OK, so getting back on topic about necros here, there are a few questions I have about the discord heroes:
1. I am a monk, should I be ursaning or healing? And if I do decide to heal, what skills should I replace the the last necro's healing skills with? (not the mm or the curser).
2. What are the best weapons to be using on the discord heroes? Right now all I have is "The Nightbringer" for the MM hero.
3. Which insignias should I be using on all 3 necros?
Thx
~Fragile After just reading this thread for so long I might as well contribute.
1. I don't run monk so I'm not sure, but you could probably run either based on what you want to do. If you go ursan, take heal/prot henchies and if you heal, drop the heal henchie for another damage henchie.
2. I use The Hourglass staff on all 3 of mine which work well enough. The Nightbringer should be fine on your MM and anyone who wont be using [PwK]. If you got someone with PwK i wouldnt really worry too much about it as they generally hold it constantly.
3.I use survivor insignias on all of em, with a bloodstained on the MM. You can go without the bloodstained if you want, im just kinda impatient and it helps when enemies have corpse skills.
1. I am a monk, should I be ursaning or healing? And if I do decide to heal, what skills should I replace the the last necro's healing skills with? (not the mm or the curser).
2. What are the best weapons to be using on the discord heroes? Right now all I have is "The Nightbringer" for the MM hero.
3. Which insignias should I be using on all 3 necros?
Thx
~Fragile After just reading this thread for so long I might as well contribute.
1. I don't run monk so I'm not sure, but you could probably run either based on what you want to do. If you go ursan, take heal/prot henchies and if you heal, drop the heal henchie for another damage henchie.
2. I use The Hourglass staff on all 3 of mine which work well enough. The Nightbringer should be fine on your MM and anyone who wont be using [PwK]. If you got someone with PwK i wouldnt really worry too much about it as they generally hold it constantly.
3.I use survivor insignias on all of em, with a bloodstained on the MM. You can go without the bloodstained if you want, im just kinda impatient and it helps when enemies have corpse skills.
Fragile Feeling
Ok, on another hero healer I have a Droknar's Restoration Staff, could I switch that over to the healer? or should I get something completely different?
EDIT: and Im also wondering this: why no radiant insignias?
EDIT AGAIN: Here are the builds that I am going to use:
[Discord Curses;OAhkUoG4BGqTMzOgIKD7uhp0kaD]
[Discord MM;OANEUshd95EzqCoB8QV1oVPCIA]
[Discord Healer;OAhkUkGYoIiUMjaQVVC4wk004UyF]
So what do you guys think? don't mind the attribute spread on the healer because my olias is only lvl 15, but anyone have any suggestions?
EDIT: and Im also wondering this: why no radiant insignias?
EDIT AGAIN: Here are the builds that I am going to use:
[Discord Curses;OAhkUoG4BGqTMzOgIKD7uhp0kaD]
[Discord MM;OANEUshd95EzqCoB8QV1oVPCIA]
[Discord Healer;OAhkUkGYoIiUMjaQVVC4wk004UyF]
So what do you guys think? don't mind the attribute spread on the healer because my olias is only lvl 15, but anyone have any suggestions?
TheOrangeFalcon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragile Feeling
Ok, on another hero healer I have a Droknar's Restoration Staff, could I switch that over to the healer? or should I get something completely different?
EDIT: and Im also wondering this: why no radiant insignias? You don't benefit from the enchanting mod on the Droks Resto Staff, so swapping it could be useful. An Alem's Remedy or Bogroot Staff should work fine if you wanna look at greens.
You don't need radiants because of that wonderful thing called Soul Reaping.
EDIT: and Im also wondering this: why no radiant insignias? You don't benefit from the enchanting mod on the Droks Resto Staff, so swapping it could be useful. An Alem's Remedy or Bogroot Staff should work fine if you wanna look at greens.
You don't need radiants because of that wonderful thing called Soul Reaping.