SF Update will destroy GW economy

EmptySkull

EmptySkull

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2006

KaoS League

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurenai Fire Sensei
..............
I want to talk about the recent [shadow form] PvE uptade, i think that this uptaded skill will destroy the ectos value like ursan destroyed shards price.
......truncated
I think someone is sitting on a bunch of ecto and about to panic.


So many people farm ecto it's crazy. I have no proof but I think there is a floor on how low the price of ecto can go. I also believe, with no proof, there is a quota on how many ecto drop in all of GW in a 24 hour period.

And solo farming ecto isn't new.

Besides the only things that retain their value is uber rare items that don't drop from monsters, or very very very rarely.

What does it matter anyway. I have FoW armor/Chaos Gloves. If the price of ectos crashed I wouldn't care. I farmed all my ecto/shards for the armor/gloves. Which I would do anyway if they were 500 gold a piece. Just my personal preference not to pay for anything I can get myself.

Jensy

Jensy

Site Contributor

Join Date: Apr 2007

Phoenix, Arizona

Blinkie Ponie Armie [bpa]

N/Mo

There doesn't seem to be any change in merchant price, and they're very likely still selling in ToA for 4.8k on the average... so I don't know what all the fuss is about.

The ecto hoarders amuse me, however. It's not as if you can take any of them, or any of your money over to GW2 O_o/

MithranArkanere

MithranArkanere

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Nov 2006

wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigo

Heraldos de la Llama Oscura [HLO]

E/

Oh, come one!

Now Afflicted Assassins are much more fun!

Chrono Re delle Ere

Chrono Re delle Ere

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2006

The Land of Hyrule

[GoE]

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by MithranArkanere
Oh, come one!

Now Afflicted Assassins are much more fun!
You hit the point man. That's the only true annoying thing about this update

Neo Nugget

Neo Nugget

Site Contributor

Join Date: Jan 2006

R/

Well, i'm glad it didn't get hit with this update

VladDrakken

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Sep 2006

Drakken Death Dealers

N/W

That's because they need revenues. With the changes they made to the SF Sin build, people without Factions would flock to the store and buy them. Same thing goes with Ursan. Same with all the other solo builds out there. They need REVENUES until their next cash cow becomes live.

Sneaky way to do it, but its just business.



Sorry Las ... Laaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaassssssssssssssssssss. :P

ogre_jd

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2008

Canadia

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by VladDrakken
That's because they need revenues. With the changes they made to the SF Sin build, people without Factions would flock to the store and buy them. Same thing goes with Ursan. Same with all the other solo builds out there. They need REVENUES until their next cash cow becomes live.
Bull. No one who wasn't already going to buy the games is going to be doing so just for the sake of solo farming builds or Ursan Blessing. Might dictate the order they pick things up, but that's about it.

VladDrakken

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Sep 2006

Drakken Death Dealers

N/W

Quote:
Originally Posted by ogre_jd
Bull. No one who wasn't already going to buy the games is going to be doing so just for the sake of solo farming builds or Ursan Blessing. Might dictate the order they pick things up, but that's about it.
Sales has been stagnant since they've announced theyre gonna discontinue releasing new campaigns and build GW2 instead. Programmers and staff needs to get paid, GW isnt a pay2play ... so, with that said, they got creative.

Riceboi

Riceboi

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by ogre_jd
Bull. No one who wasn't already going to buy the games is going to be doing so just for the sake of solo farming builds or Ursan Blessing. Might dictate the order they pick things up, but that's about it.
Well maybe I'm alone but I bought EOTN for a few new skills, and no Ursan wasn't one of them. So I think he has a point actually.

garethporlest18

garethporlest18

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

[HiDe]

W/

I think that person might be right above, with a cap on as low as ecto can go, but I guess we'll never know. I'm sure there isn't but you never know. I've not seen ecto drop under 4.5k in the merchant since the bug/exploit days. And as soon as it drops to 4.8k within 30 minutes it's usually back up to 5.5k.

Snow Bunny

Snow Bunny

Alcoholic From Yale

Join Date: Jul 2007

Strong Foreign Policy [sFp]

In 4 days I've farmed 600k. I haven't had 600k since I traded ecto between American/Euro servers.
This shit is bananas.

I really do hope they don't nerf it. I won't be pissed or anything, but it's so fun at the moment.

Nightow

Nightow

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

Kindred Order of Souls [KOS]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snow Bunny
In 4 days I've farmed 600k. I haven't had 600k since I traded ecto between American/Euro servers.
This shit is bananas.

I really do hope they don't nerf it. I won't be pissed or anything, but it's so fun at the moment.
Agreed, making 100k after about 3-4 runs in the UW. Took me about 30k to learn the route and how to time it but boy was it worth it!

Now i just need to keep the cupcakes flowin'.

mazza558

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2006

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snow Bunny
In 4 days I've farmed 600k. I haven't had 600k since I traded ecto between American/Euro servers.
This shit is bananas.

I really do hope they don't nerf it. I won't be pissed or anything, but it's so fun at the moment.
Where? How?

I've been farming (only about an hour a day) for a week, and I only have 60k.

Nightow

Nightow

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

Kindred Order of Souls [KOS]

Quote:
Originally Posted by mazza558
Where? How?

I've been farming (only about an hour a day) for a week, and I only have 60k.
UW

A/E
12+1+3 Shadow arts
12 Fire magic
3 Deadly arts
[glyph of swiftness][deadly paradox][Shadow form][Glyph of lesser energy][Mark of Rodgort][lava font][Fire Attunement][Dash] or [Flame Djinn's Haste]

Follow the path shown in this thread: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10293844

You will get 2-6+ ecto a run, plus gold item drops, plus materials, plus tomes and Passage Scrolls.

EDIT: Use cupcakes for the actual running part that gets you to the chaos plains.

Keira Nightgale

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2007

Gulfstream Owners Club [GS]

Rt/R

So this was just a QQ thread? If I'm right I saw the op doing Ursanway in ToA before, someone should get some coherency.
BTW ecto price has a minimum cap, I think that's 3.8K or something like that.

legacyofkain85

legacyofkain85

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2006

Lady Ainowa

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurenai Fire Sensei
y economy is already dead but SF uptade will COMPLETELY destroy the gw economy. farming 50e/day i could buy a fow in 2 days, chaos gloves in 1,5 days, eternal in 4-5 days and high-end minis in a few weeks. SF must have a nerf
its just been updated ,hence the pve/pvp skillĀ“s separation.Why nerf something that ,when they could have nerfed it for pve also in the same manner they did for pvp,btw shadow form could already be mantained permanently with an a/me ,arcane echo ,16 shadow arts and a weapon with 20% enchanting

A Leprechaun

A Leprechaun

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Feb 2006

W/

The bottom line is that I fancy myself a suit of Obsidian armour and I don't care about anyone else.

~A Leprechaun~

Mac Sidewinder

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2007

This is really crazy. In 10 days (just 2 to 3 hours at a time) I have maxed my storage gold (increased it by 850k) and have around 30 ecto left over. I'm currently working to get obby armor also. Just don't nerf it for a few more days and I'll be happy.

ReZDoGG

ReZDoGG

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2007

Indian Township, ME

Nativ War Party (NWP)

Rt/Mo

Anyone else think it seems drop rate dropped by half for ectos? Day before update, i got 22 ectos in 4 runs... yesterday, did another 4 and only got 12, today, i got like 5 and only got 11. Unless it is just because im farming at way different times than i was acouple days ago. I was farming in Inter dis ToA around noon to evening, and was gettin made ectos. Now, I am farming 4-8am in the morning, and 11pm-2am, and I am gettin crap. Guess ill try farming at around the same times and see again. But tonight I definately got the worst run I've had in the past couple weeks... I got 1 ecto my first run tonight, then only 2 the 2nd, then 3 the 3rd. Seems like alot less to me, anyone else notice this?

Dronte

Dronte

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Sep 2006

Same here. Droprates decreased badly for me. Whatever, still nice farm ^^

Narcissia

Narcissia

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2007

BC Canada

Guild With No [NAM???]

still better than smites. all i care about lol

Kain666

Kain666

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Aug 2007

Bran - Romania

TIGG

Mo/A

uhm...why nerf Shadow Form? Why not give the Specters Signet of Disenchantment? Chaos Farm=Nerfed, SF not.

Riceboi

Riceboi

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kain666
uhm...why nerf Shadow Form? Why not give the Specters Signet of Disenchantment? Chaos Farm=Nerfed, SF not.
ssssshhhhhhhhhhh geez man! lol

RotteN

RotteN

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2005

W/

droprates fluctuate a lot, yesterday i had both my worst (1 ecto) and best run (7 ecto) in a while. So it's completely random i guess.

kvndoom

kvndoom

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2005

Communistwealth of Virginia

Uninstalled

W/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kain666
uhm...why nerf Shadow Form? Why not give the Specters Signet of Disenchantment? Chaos Farm=Nerfed, SF not.
No nerfs are necessary on anything. Why are people terrified that the rift between the haves and have-nots might close a little? If someone wants to make an assassin and farm their butts off to have something nice for a change, let them!

A lot of people, and I mean a LOT, aren't hardcore farmers. Some people don't even farm casually. Most people playing Guild Wars are doing just that... playing Guild Wars. They want to do dungeons and quests and missions, not grind for wealth. And if they do decide to jump in and make a few quick plat, so what?

I'm 1st or 2nd in my alliance in terms of total in-game assets, and from what I read in guild / alliance chat, I'd say no more than 4 other people in my whole alliance are farming UW regularly. Even though the option is there, the build is there, and the means is there (and i show guildies runs if they ask), most aren't that interested. And even if they were, I don't feel somehow threatened or worried by it. "I don't want you to have what i have" is a pretty stupid way to think (referring to the OP and people who share his mindset).

Gregslot

Gregslot

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2006

Me/

So this thread is all about a guy who have lots of stacks of ectos, doesnt want to spend it, but doesnt want it to devaule... hummm... interesting. I miss the part of where all the players are getting benefit with that.

Coverticus

Coverticus

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jan 2006

The Zodiac Elites [TZE]

Mo/

Round and round we go.... yet another thread on this kinda subject.

So Shadow Form is now usable by any joe (tho it has been before the update via AE and a lil more concentration). Big deal. Does it really matter what you go into the UW, FoW or Tombs with? Of course it doesn't. Sin, Monk, Ritualist, Warrior, Elezzzzzz..... these places have been farmed almost from day 3 of Guild Wars. Sure Ectos are now at their lowest prices that they have been since records began (after people realised what they were used for of course) but does it really matter? Not really. The ecomony has stagnated for ages and this was always going to happen with the sheer number of players playing AND being able to farm either hardcore or casually.

ANet won't touch this either, too much egg left on face otherwise. So get used to it. PvE is not the preferred choice of ANet (and never really has been) so get over it and play (or find something else to do. Play cards, have a life, discover a woman etc etc). Of course you still aren't Invincible due to the dreaded Signet of Lag

Me personally, I prefer popping my monk into UW for some mind numbing grinding.....

Stockholm

Stockholm

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Feb 2006

Censored

Censored

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zena Starlight
QQ Moar? So now the hard earn cash you spent to buy obsidian armor/chaos gloves will be worthless since others people can get it?
OH wow, so now your e-peen got smaller? News flash. they have allways been worthless.

w00t!

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2005

Sorrow's Furnace Hot Tub

RoS

Mo/Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by kvndoom
No nerfs are necessary on anything. Why are people terrified that the rift between the haves and have-nots might close a little?
(snip)

A lot of people, and I mean a LOT, aren't hardcore farmers. Some people don't even farm casually. Most people playing Guild Wars are doing just that... playing Guild Wars.
(snip)

"I don't want you to have what i have" is a pretty stupid way to think (referring to the OP and people who share his mindset).
QFT. Best post in the entire thread.

I have over 3,000 hours logged in GW across 3 accounts, and have never actively solo farmed. Don't have a mini-Panda, but have still managed to accumulate all of the wealth I need and more, all the while managing to enjoy myself playing GW.

If people want to grind UW for ectos, let them. SF really does nothing special that hasn't been available since 55'ers came out. It may make the runs more efficient, but that's basically it.

Yawgmoth

Yawgmoth

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kain666
uhm...why nerf Shadow Form? Why not give the Specters Signet of Disenchantment? Chaos Farm=Nerfed, SF not.
It's not just the 1 farming spot, the problem lies in the ridiculously overpowered skill which should have no place in this game. God Mode is overpowered by definition, infinite God Mode is just retarded.

Neo Nugget

Neo Nugget

Site Contributor

Join Date: Jan 2006

R/

What we need to worry about is the glittering dust economy more than the ectos.
If ectos had that same drop rate, then you could complain :P

Molock

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2006

Qu??bec

Legacy of Angels [Halo]

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yawgmoth
It's not just the 1 farming spot, the problem lies in the ridiculously overpowered skill which should have no place in this game. God Mode is overpowered by definition, infinite God Mode is just retarded.
[Shadow Form] is not god mode.. just ask the Charged Blackness'. Sure you are immune to almost everything but you aren't invulnerable to all sources of damage.

Chthon

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Apr 2007

1. I see that the title of this thread has been "uptaded."

2. I think all this "the sky is falling" panic is misplaced. In fact, if anything is going to cause a crash in ecto prices, it's this misplaced panic, not the new farm. Let's take a closer look.

Price is dictated by supply and demand.

Let's look at supply first:

The new (or "newly easy" I should say) SF farm affects supply. All of this panic is based on the idea that supply is going to skyrocket, so prices will tumble. But wait, supply isn't going to skyrocket. Why not? Because People have been greedily farming them for 3 years now, so there's already such an enormous number of ectos out there that the extra ectos coming in from SF farming is a mere drop in the bucket compared to the preexisting supply. The total number of ectos in the game, as compared to a parallel world where SF wasn't buffed, isn't going to move more than a few percent over the course of the next few months. Simply put, there's not going to be the big change in supply that people think there will be.

On a related note, it should be noted that most of the new growth in the ecto supply is going into the hands of people who haven't traditionally had more than a few ectos. I can't help but think that this might be the real basis for opposition to the SF farm. It's the return of what I call the "pathetic elitist sentiment" -- the attitude that "I feel special because I have armor/weapons/minis/ecto stacks/armbraces/whatever that other players don't have. And I like feeling special. So I demand that a-net nerf the other players so that they can't get the same things I have." As you can probably tell, I don't think much of this attitude.

One final note on supply: Has anyone been looking at the favor counter? Judging from the rate it's been going down, I'd say we have a little less than 2 weeks of favor left, maybe more if people get motivated to title grind before it runs out. Now, a-net could (and SHOULD) restore the earned favor that was lost when the counter rolled over. And a-net could (and should) completely do away with the favor system and make UW/FoW permanently open. But, assuming they don't do either of these things, the ecto supply is going to stop growing in the very near future.

Now, let's turn to demand:

Ectos' use as currency has always kept their demand high. People hoard them. Many players who have maxed out their gold storage buy ectos as a place to "put" their gold. So long as ectos persist as currency, they'll continue to buy at any price, since they have no place better to put their excess gold. So the demand for ectos is limited only by the rate at which these people make gold.

The important phrase in that last paragraph was "so long as ectos persist as currency." They may not. This panic may become a self-fulfilling prophecy. If enough people become worried that their ectos are going to become worthless, and decide switch their excess gold to some other prospective currency, that nearly-infinite demand is going to start to fall.

(Totally aside, I might note that each of the major alternative currencies is undesirable. Lockpicks are inherently unfair because they can be bought at the discount merchants in factions. Only idiots and people who belong to the big faction farming alliances favor using them as currency. Z-Keys have no NPC trader, making it onerous to convert back and forth between between gold and keys. Armbraces have been duped to such an extent that their rarity is further out of line with their market value than any other item. Moreover, the huge uncertainty about how big the supply of armbraces actually is makes it impossible to make informed decisions about their value. And they have no trader.)

In sum, if the bottom falls out of the ecto market, it's not the SF farm that's to blame, but rather the people panicking about the SF farm and causing a "run on the bank."

Mac Sidewinder

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo Nugget
What we need to worry about is the glittering dust economy more than the ectos. If ectos had that same drop rate, then you could complain :P
If I could just get as many ecto as I get phantom remains, I'd be rich, rich I tell you!!!!! Oh, excuse me......got carried away for a minute there.

At least now some of us "don't have much" will now "have a little more" so I don't see the problem in it.

strcpy

strcpy

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2005

One of Many [ONE]

Quote:
Originally Posted by kvndoom
"I don't want you to have what i have" is a pretty stupid way to think (referring to the OP and people who share his mindset).
Games, especially online games, are pretty much based around this. The vast majority of long term players think this way and GW is no different.

Nor does it even only occur in terms of gold - how many ranted that Fame is irrelevant and no one should ever turn someone away because of it then, once they get to whatever rank is used to discriminate it becomes the single most important thing people can have.

I think the average age of gamers has something to do with this too. Most of your casual players tend to be older (they are casual because they have other commitments and can't play that much). I've found that to be fairly true in many other things too.

GW just really gets on their nerves because it is heavily biased towards the casual gamer being able to pretty much play the whole game. For those that play games to differentiate themselves that ruins the fun and makes a "poorly designed game" with a "crappy economy". For those that are long term casual players it makes a "superbly designed game" and "best in game economy I have seen". I rather suspect - like me - you fall into the latter category. There was a time in my life I would most likely have been in the first category but that was 15-20 years ago (and I know I would have done so from playing MUDs).

Edge Martinez

Edge Martinez

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

NC

DKL

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woop Shotty
50 ectos per day? Damn! Are you hooked up to an IV and colostamy bag?
lol. classic.

RhanoctJocosa

RhanoctJocosa

Legendary Korean

Join Date: Aug 2006

The Benecia Renovatio [RenO]

W/

gw/economy has been RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOed up for a long time. honestly, how can you still care

Airstu

Airstu

Academy Page

Join Date: Jun 2007

BC, eh

Liars Cheats and thieves [liar]

how is this thread still active? Personally, UW has enabled me to REMOVE 120e, 120 shards and 75K from the economy this week.

You're welcome for keeping the economy happily steaming along at its status quo.

Riceboi

Riceboi

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by strcpy
Games, especially online games, are pretty much based around this. The vast majority of long term players think this way and GW is no different.

Nor does it even only occur in terms of gold - how many ranted that Fame is irrelevant and no one should ever turn someone away because of it then, once they get to whatever rank is used to discriminate it becomes the single most important thing people can have.

I think the average age of gamers has something to do with this too. Most of your casual players tend to be older (they are casual because they have other commitments and can't play that much). I've found that to be fairly true in many other things too.

GW just really gets on their nerves because it is heavily biased towards the casual gamer being able to pretty much play the whole game. For those that play games to differentiate themselves that ruins the fun and makes a "poorly designed game" with a "crappy economy". For those that are long term casual players it makes a "superbly designed game" and "best in game economy I have seen". I rather suspect - like me - you fall into the latter category. There was a time in my life I would most likely have been in the first category but that was 15-20 years ago (and I know I would have done so from playing MUDs).
amazingly accurate!

Taurus

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Oct 2005

Mexico

Go for the eyes [jizz]

W/Mo

What's the ecto rate on SF farm, per hour ?